Carver runabout

[Dan_W]

Hi fellow boat nuts,
The ink had barely dried on the sales agreement for my 1953 Ed Monk cruiser before we bought another wood boat to replace her!
We found a 18' 1963 Carver runabout with a frozen outboard. It's a pretty lapstrake planked hull with just enough bright wood to keep the varnishers happy. My question is what to replace the dead outboard with. It currently has a 3cyl. 70hp Evinrude of the 1970's vintage. This is my first foray into outboard boating. I would like to go a little bigger in the horse power but not to much. The boat is very solid with a planked up transom so I was thinking it might handle a least 90hp. Anyone have some ideas and experince with this. Thanks, Dan

[John Bell]

My outboard mechanic sez you can't beat the old V-4 OMC's in that size range. They have good parts availibility, are easy to work on, and they are pretty forgiving of bad treatment. I think the smallest is a 100 or 115, tho'.

I've got a Mercury 115 that runs well (after a monumental struggle this year!), but it is unecessarily complicated. Go Johnson/Evinrude for used motors.

Otherwise, I'd put a 90 horse 4-stroke Yammie on the stern.

[brad9798]

18-footer can handle a modern 90 horse outboard without a problem ... those older models were big, heavy, and clunky for their respective power ratings ...

To be sure, weight the current motor ... then shop for one according to weight ...

You may even be able to go up to 100+ horse ...

Heck a 90 horse is still a 3-cylinder ... so the weight should only be maybe 20-30 poungs more than a 70 horse model ...

Brad

[Paul Morris]

Hi Dan:
Two years ago, I did a restoration of one of these boats (now somewhat rare) and it had a 70 hp Johnson on it which made it run beautifully with four adults in it. Remember these are a somewhat flexible boat and overpowering them will lead to earlier failure in the Thiokol in the lap seams. This is the primary waterproofing system in these lapstrake hulls. These are great dry running boats and are worth every effort to keep it in good condition.
~ Paul ~

[Dan_W]

Thanks for the input from everyone. Paul, was your boat a Carver also? Do you have any pictures? I have tried searching for another Carver like this and haven't had any luck. From what I found they started building them in a garage in 1956 and by 1964 or 1965 they had moved to an actual plant and started building cruisers and the sizes just kept getting bigger. I would be interested to find some more history. If you want I'll send you some pictures of what we have as soon as I get a decent weather day to pull it out of the shop and get a good picture. (It's Washington, it does rain some.) When you had yours with the 70 what kind of performance did you have? Cruise speed and fuel consumpation. I would like to be able to pull my young kids on an inner tube of something, nothing serious though. I am thinking of rebuilding the 70, I'm looking at a rebuilt powerhead on e-bay. I'll see what the price gets to.
Anyway, thanks again.
Dan

[Paul Morris]

Yes Dan, it was a Carver 17'-6" and I have quite a few pictures I'd be happy to share. They are digital so I can e-mail them or put them on CD if you'd like.
I think my customer told me it was a 1963. The boat was in good general condition and needed a good cosmetic restoration which it now has.
We even had exact replica decals (Carver logo) made for it with a local custom sign maker. These were duplicated from the origional sales brochure he had.
I drove the boat several times after finishing and it managed 32mph in calmish water and a comfortable 24 to 28 in a light chop on big lake water. Four aboard. Should work fine towing kids at 20 to 26. I can't speak to fuel economy as I only now see the boat once in a while. They have done really fun long day cruises up here on the northern Mississippi river.
My customer has become a good friend and knows a lot about the Carver short history.
In a nutshell two fellows who worked at the Thompson boat works left and started their own co.
Same thing for the guys that started Cruisers Inc.
All in upper Wisc. or Minn..
~Glad to help, Paul ~

[botebum]

Concern about the hanging weight of an outboard is secondary. Your first concern should be the torque applied to the transom under power. Yes, today's motors weigh less than older models, but the same horsepower today, with today's highly efficient props (increased thrust) can destroy a boat even with the lower weight. Keep this in mind when choosing your new motor and inspect the transom to hull joint before and regularly after.

[Victor]

That's interesting, botebum. I wonder how much lighter the new motors are. I have a 62 V4 75hp that weighs about 200 pounds. It's an incredibly reliable and resilient engine. Smokes a lot on startup and throws lots of oil in the water, so you might want to use castor oil in it and/or warm it up in a barrel before launching.

These motors are a dime a dozen. No one seems to want them. Where I work there are half a dozen powerheads lying in the dirt. I get about 4 mpg on my 19-foot utlity, top speed about 30 mph. The bottom ends tend to go but are easy to repair. I went 80 miles once with Delaware River water providing most of the lubrication for my lower end - no damage.

I think 61 or 62 is the first year with the alternator and electric start, basically the same configuration in use today. I'd avoid the earlier magneto models. IMHO these motors are still pretty darn good and certainly the best value you'll find.

[brad9798]

Not saying you are wrong, but 200 pounds is LIGHTER than a modern-day 75 horse OB.

IIRC, today's would weigh-in at about 225+ lbs ...

:confused:

Oh, and botebum, GREAT point on torque.

[Andreas Jordahl Rhude]

You can pick up a 75 HP Evinrude or Johnson from 1963 for a low price. I like the Mercury outboards from that time period. I have 110 HP Merc on my 16'-7" Thompson lapstrake (1957 boat).

CarVer was stared in Milwaukee, WI by C.A. CARter and George VERhagen circa 1954. About a year or so later they moved to Pulaski, WI just west of Green Bay where they still are located. They started out making molded plywood boats. In the early '60s they switched to plywood lapstrake construction. Circa 1965 they went bankrupt and that's when Wally Markham and Glen Nordin bought them. They both had previously been with Cruisers, Inc. at Oconto, WI (Thompson owned). Markham had started his boat building career in the factory at Thompson Bros. Boat in Peshtigo, WI in the 1930s. Nordin was an accountant type guy.

They continued to make wooden lapstrake boats well into the 1970s. Carver is part of the Irwin Jacobs' Genmar empire today.

[Andreas Jordahl Rhude]

The start of Carver Boats in the 1950s had NO connection with Thompson or Cruisers, Inc. After the Carver bankruptcy circa 1965 I don't know what happened to Mr. Carter. Verhagen founded Badger Boat Co. at Black Creek, WI which only lasted a few years. He later had a RFP plant in the same general area, not making boats but he made RFP components for seveal boat builders including Thompson at Peshtigo.

[Dan Lindberg]

OBM weights,

in my experience, the newer motors are much heavier then the old motors.

We had a 1960 OMC 75 hp Vee 4, it also weighed about 220 lbs per the specs. While it looked huge, it was mostly air under the hood, and the lower unit was very small/light. Remember this was before the through-the-hub exhaust and when the props ran very fast. (This motor would cavitate(?) the prop on any sharp turn.) The lower units got much larger/heavier with t-w-h exhaust and when the props spun slower, ie, larger gears. This motor had a magnito and electric start.

BTW, the OMC Vee 4's were introduced in 1958 with a HP rating of 50 hp, this motor was increased to the 75 in 1960.

We replaced the 1960 75 OMC with a 1975 Merc 85 hp, also a 4 cyl/66ci?(1080cc). The newer motor was about 2/3 the displacement of the old, got "better" fuel mileage and weighed about 45 lbs heavier, if I remember about 265 lbs. It is also faster then the old.

I "think" (check the current specs) that when Merc replaced the old vertical inlines with the new designs, that they again got heavier, by maybe 40 lbs? A quick check of the current Merc 75 lists the weight at 305 lbs, a 3 cyl/1386cc motor.

Dan

[SomeSailor]

I've also got an old Carver runabout. I'm also in the Puget Sound region.

Mine's a 1967. I'm in the process of stripping the hull right now. Mine has both 100HP Evinrude and 18HP Evinrude outboards.

I'd really be interested in any information anyone might have regarding pictures and such. I don't know how rare these are, but you hardly hear anyone talking about them.
http://www.iboatnw.com/gallery/data/media/71/P1010005.JPG http://www.iboatnw.com/gallery/data/media/21/P3100093.jpg
http://www.iboatnw.com/gallery/data/media/71/P1010013.JPG

[Andreas Jordahl Rhude]

I purchased on eBay a 1965 Carver Boats catalog with detailed spec sheets for each model, plus black and white pictures, and their regular colour brochure.

Andreas