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eleseus
11-20-2006, 05:18 PM
The Sunday TimesNovember 19, 2006
Darfur children dragged from mothers and shot

Katharine Houreld, Tine, Darfur
http://images.thetimes.co.uk/images/trans.gifWHEN the fighters came, the mothers of Jebel Maun could not protect their children. Screaming toddlers were ripped from their grasp and shot; older children who tried to save their brothers and sisters were hunted down.
“Four children escaped in a group and ran under a tree for protection. An attacker came and shot at them, killing one of the children,” said a witness in an account to United Nations staff.
NI_MPU('middle');Another group, aged five, seven and nine, tried to run away. The five-year-old fell down and was shot dead. Another boy stopped and told the attacker: “You killed this child. Please let me go.” It was no use. He too was killed, one of more than 20 children who died that day. Local people in the Darfur region of Sudan put the number of dead in the attack earlier this month at 63, mostly old men and children. The African Union, which has a peacekeeping force in Darfur, said 92 people died in the eight villages attacked.

“They took the babies and children from their mothers’ arms, beat the women and shot the children,” said one witness, Adam Gamer Umar. “They said, ‘We’re killing your sons and when you have more we will come and kill them too’.”
Mariam Abakr Yehya’s three-year-old was one of those killed. “They said they would kill this one next time,” she said, referring to the baby boy in her arms.
Details of the latest massacres emerged as a deal was brokered last week by Kofi Annan, the UN secretary-general, for a “hybrid force” of African Union troops with logistical support from the UN. However, there was no agreement on the timing or mandate of this force and the Sudanese government has continued to resist calls for 20,000 UN peacekeepers to replace a relatively ineffective African Union force of 7,000.
The villagers of Jebel Maun say their attackers wore government uniforms and badges and carried new guns and satellite phones. A similar description was given by the inhabitants of Sirba, another Darfur village, where 30 people were killed. Last Tuesday militiamen with new weapons and Landcruisers barred the road to African Union investigators. Khartoum denies responsibility for the atrocities and blames a rogue Arab militia.
Five peace treaties have been signed and torn up since conflict erupted in Darfur in 2003. Local tribes, mostly “African” farmers, formed rebel movements to protest against the neglect of their region and the arming of Arabic-speaking nomadic militias. The government responded by encouraging the militias, known as the janjaweed, to target civilians it suspected of supporting the rebels.
At least 200,000 people have been killed and 2m made homeless in the ensuing carnage. Since only one of three rebel factions signed the latest peace deal in May, the violence has worsened.
Vast swathes of northern Darfur have become no-go areas for aid groups providing vital food, medicine and clean water for refugees. Thirteen aid workers have been killed in six months. Organisations that speak out against abuses, such as gang rape and intimidation, find their members arrested or permits to operate revoked. Laptop computers are confiscated and searched at the airport. In El Fasher, the capital of north Darfur, one official tried to seize papers belonging to The Sunday Times containing confidential interviews with civilians who had suffered at the hands of government forces.
There is plenty to hide. In a clear violation of the peace treaty, 1,000 janjaweed moved into the desolate outpost of Tine, on the border between Sudan and Chad, three weeks ago to support 3,000 government troops already stationed there. Almost all the 70,000 residents have fled. Now fighters sporting flip-flops, assault rifles and a mishmash of uniforms lounge insolently in the marketplace.
At their nearby camp the 200 African Union soldiers say there is little they can do. Outnumbered by government forces and lacking a mandate to intervene, they are calling in vain for UN action It is already too late for the children of Jebel Maun and there is no one left in Tine to protect. “This is a ghost town. All the people are dead or have run away,” said Virginia Mukuka, one of 30 civilian police attached to the African Union force in Tine. She says she has dealt with only one complaint in four months. “We came to help our brothers and sisters,” she said, “but they are gone.”


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2459992,00.html

ishmael
11-20-2006, 05:27 PM
While the world is captivated by the oil in the Mid-East, more horrible is happening in sub-Saharan Africa.

To our credit, this administration has called, repeatedly, for some sort of intervention. It's a travesty. People call for action in Iraq, and ignore the much worse happenings day to day in Darfur.

I think this abandonment is going to be the end of the UN.

eleseus
11-20-2006, 05:40 PM
While the world is captivated by the oil in the Mid-East, more horrible is happening in sub-Saharan Africa.

To our credit, this administration has called, repeatedly, for some sort of intervention. It's a travesty. People call for action in Iraq, and ignore the much worse happenings day to day in Darfur.

I think this abandonment is going to be the end of the UN.

There is oil in Sudan, too, but China has its hands on a good share of it. And Sudanese "leaders" have made more than clear that any Western intervention--including the UN-- will result in a call to jihad, and we know what that means--fighting an elusive bunch of savages who hide in villages in the day and explode themselves at night--a no-win situation. Really, I am shocked at the total indifference that the muslim world at large has shown regarding Darfur; as I discovered long ago on the jihadi chat forums, muslims care about dead muslims only if an infidel killed them. Darfur is simply muslim killing muslim, arab muslims slaughtering unarmed "African" muslims, and the "victimhood value" isn't enough for most muslims to be concerned.

Donn
11-20-2006, 05:43 PM
That's what happens when you hang out on "the jihad chat forums."

Maybe you should go back to them.

Maybe you should take your concern and indignance to Darfur, and do something about it, instead of piling crap like this on a boating forum.

ishmael
11-20-2006, 05:50 PM
"Darfur is simply muslim killing muslim, arab muslims slaughtering unarmed "African" muslims."

Pretty much my understanding, too. And the US will get no thanks for trying to stop it.

Let us face the fact that some people are very primitive. We catch the ****e, but how do you deal with Arab folk on horses riding in and killing black folks? They both understand the same god, so that's not it. It's quite simply that some of them are Arab, and some of them are Black.

If we weren't otherwise engaged I'd be for us stopping this. I definately think the world ought to stand up and stop this.

eleseus
11-20-2006, 06:01 PM
That's what happens when you hang out on "the jihad chat forums."

Maybe you should go back to them.

Maybe you should take your concern and indignance to Darfur, and do something about it, instead of piling crap like this on a boating forum.

Maybe you should shut your grumpy, involuntarily-celibate, ugly face. After that, go drown yourself you ornery geezer. I'll post what I want and when I want you bearded, antique moron.

Donn
11-20-2006, 06:06 PM
Yeah, maybe. In the meantime, you'll join fishmeal on my list of people(?) who have no opinions I care to read. Congrats! It only took you 158 posts.

eleseus
11-20-2006, 06:18 PM
Yeah, maybe. In the meantime, you'll join fishmeal on my list of people(?) who have no opinions I care to read. Congrats! It only took you 158 posts.

A list of mine, Donn, that you have been on since my first post here. May you work under a few faulty boat-jacks and have a very flattened Thanksgiving you evil grump.:)

ishmael
11-20-2006, 06:22 PM
I don't think mere civilians can comprehend that.

Phillip Allen
11-20-2006, 06:22 PM
NO, NO, NO eleseus...a proper curse is something like: "May you have a bad dream and wake up to find Jack Kavorkian standing at the foot of the bed with a mask and smiling..."

Milo Christensen
11-20-2006, 06:30 PM
I've just been completely tuning out the news from Somalia, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Sudan, etc. Just sick and tired of their governments getting in the way of getting help to these people. I've also been completely rejecting contributing to any NGO's that want money for that region. I don't feel good about it, but there's got to be something positive coming from within, and when was the last time that was? I don't know that I've ever heard a positive report about anything come out of that area.

Phillip Allen
11-20-2006, 06:40 PM
positive? ... hmmmm....well, Wolf Blitzer managed to shine his lights on our troops coming ashore in "secret" and no one shot him...(oh wait, you said positive...)

kain't help ya

Peter Malcolm Jardine
11-20-2006, 06:43 PM
That's what happens when you hang out on "the jihad chat forums."

Maybe you should go back to them.

Maybe you should take your concern and indignance to Darfur, and do something about it, instead of piling crap like this on a boating forum.


Help me. I agree with Donn totally, and I can't get up:D

Norman Bernstein
11-20-2006, 06:44 PM
"Darfur is simply muslim killing muslim, arab muslims slaughtering unarmed "African" muslims."

I don't think you have that quite right... I believe it is Arab Muslims killing ethnic Africans who are a mix of Animist and Christian faiths.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
11-20-2006, 06:46 PM
I've just been completely tuning out the news from Somalia, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Sudan, etc. Just sick and tired of their governments getting in the way of getting help to these people. I've also been completely rejecting contributing to any NGO's that want money for that region. I don't feel good about it, but there's got to be something positive coming from within, and when was the last time that was? I don't know that I've ever heard a positive report about anything come out of that area.


It's disheartening, but I don't agree with you. The probably that Africa has is no one gives a shiit. As long as western nations can exploit their resources and work force, it's cool.

Donn
11-20-2006, 06:54 PM
Help me. I agree with Donn totally, and I can't get up:D

You're concerned that he may challenge your pile of crap. Don't worry, you have a big head..... start.

Milo Christensen
11-20-2006, 06:54 PM
...no one gives a...

Is that really the case? Or is it that an unbelievable amount of aid has poured into that area and been converted into guns and technicals?

Peter Malcolm Jardine
11-20-2006, 07:00 PM
Well, I think it's a combination of circumstances. First, there are no 'civilized' nations that are threatened by african conflicts. You can bet if it happened on any border with a European nation, or a western one, we'd quell the fighting almost immediately. The other issue is one of governance... if the dictator or government in power is sympathetic to mining and resource industry explorations and investment... who cares?

Cote D'Ivoire is a really good example of colonialism at it's worst. Even after the French have left, the power structure there ensures that the diamonds get mined, but the villages that supply the workers have no stable potable water supplies, no sewage systems, no medical clinic, and dreadful levels of poverty and sickness. People still buy diamonds tho.....

Phillip Allen
11-20-2006, 07:07 PM
I doubt it makes any difference to the women I know...but when I see a big diamond on some woman, I think of these things and know where the problem lies

Peter Malcolm Jardine
11-20-2006, 07:07 PM
You're concerned that he may challenge your pile of crap. Don't worry, you have a big head..... start.


One thing about Doony that you have to admire is his overwhelming dislike of almost everyone equally. No favourites here.:D :D

Garrett Lowell
11-20-2006, 07:18 PM
The real question is: where are the Muslim countries? They riot over cartoons but completely disregard this type of behaviour.

eleseus
11-20-2006, 07:27 PM
I don't think you have that quite right... I believe it is Arab Muslims killing ethnic Africans who are a mix of Animist and Christian faiths.

I'm almost positive it is muslims killing muslims. You must be thinking of the Sudanese Christians who are routinely enslaved by the Arab muslim Sudanese of the North. The Arabs there are just fu***ing with everyone

eleseus
11-20-2006, 07:29 PM
The real question is: where are the Muslim countries? They riot over cartoons but completely disregard this type of behaviour.

So true, Garrett. Read my earlier post; Muslims don't care about dead muslims unless the Kufar--the infidels--have killed them. It is as simple as that.