How to make teak and cherry trim?

[Barnacle Bob]

I would like to replace sections of teak and cherry trim, particularly on the top of a cowling running around the flying bridge of a cruiser and cherry trim in the interrior. Are there any books or sources of information on how to make these... what kind of power tools are used and how to use them? Some trim are obviously in sections scarfed together... there are some almost 90 degree bends... with the inside recessed to fit over cowling edges and other interior areas that have curvy trim. Are these recessed and rounded and then steam bent or are they cut into shape and then shaped round and recessed, etc. Would like to know where to get some books or instructions on these type of skills.

Thanks for any help.

[Gary E]

Well, since your not giving specific requirements and dimentions, this reminds me of a question and it's answer.

When asked how to make those award winning decoys, the artist replied.. What I see in that block of wood is a duck, I carve away whut dont look like duck, when I got all that carved away, I got a duck.

[Bob Smalser]

Go find a good book on routers and router tables. You may have to replace all of that trim.

The problem is that your trim was likely made on a big shaper with custom commercial knives:

Matching short runs of odd trim often either requires...

1) Machining new shaper knives...

2) Filing out your own scratch stock to scrape new pieces by hand...

3) Or proficiency with either hollows and rounds (wood molding planes) or a combo plane like those at center and right below.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594266/42250332.jpg

The scratch stock is by far the easiest for short runs of perfect wood and well within the capability of a basic woodworker. Hollar if you want coaching on making one.

[ 10-24-2004, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Jack Heinlen]

Hm. I judge from your post you have little experience. Unless you want to spend a few years and get the experience, you might be better off doing the relatively straightforward work yourself and hiring the curved work out. It's neither difficult nor easy but rather has to do with experience. It's also impossible to know from your post how the curvy pieces were made, or how complex we're talking.

I've a fair amount of experience with 'curvy', on both shapers and router tables, and it takes some time to learn how to do it well.

Having been away from those machines for a number of years I wouldn't even consider stepping right into complex work again. A little thought and study would invite it, but to go from absolutely cold to making complex moldings on a shaper, or router table, is inviting getting bitten, and poor quality.

Not to discourage you. Keep learning! It's neither difficult nor easy. If you're a quick study, and the pieces aren't that complex, you might be up and running within weeks. But don't expect reading a book and buying a tool will enable you to perform fairly finessed operations well. Those guys and gals who make the amazing finish woodwork we all slaver over in WB have been at it for a few years--at least.

Good luck,

Jack

[paladin]

If you know the inside or outside radius of the parts they ususally can be purchased ready made or an order placed for the work if in a wood other than teak or mahogany......Check in WoodenBoat magazine for K & L marine woodworks...

[Bob Smalser]

No way to restore the old moldings? Or aren't they there any more? Weathering and minor chipping/splits is no big deal to repair, recolor and finish.

[Barnacle Bob]

Hi Bob,

Thanks for your input. I couldn't see the photo you sent... just a small box with an x in the middle of it.

I'm mainly concerned with the teak that caps the top edge of the cowling that runs around the forward portion of the flying bridge. I will be completely rebuilding the cowling (frame and surfaces and when that is done, would like to cap off the edges with teak as was originally done... the original Burma teak suffering from weathering in some places that is quite deep between the grain. I can see that the curved pieces of the "framing" were done on a bandsaw. The frame is 25mm wide and is covered on both sides with 9mm thick plywood. and then orginally covered with cloth and fiberglass resin. I will use epoxy. This makes for a total cowling thickness of 45mm including 1mm on each side that would be the #4 cloth and epoxy coating. The teak cap fits over this and is screwed and bunged to the top edge of the cowling.

I can almost see how the teak trim was made out of 65mm x 35mm square stock... the bottom with a recess or groove 6mm deep and about 45mm wide that fits over the top edge of the cowling. I can imagine running the straight stock on a router table to get this groove and then shaping the square stock into a round shape using a plane. The cowling (top view - forward) has a long slight and gradual curve, in the beam direction of the boat, that the teak would have to follow (could probably be cold bent into place) and then turns into a sharper curve that bends at the corners. It's clear that the sharper bends are done separately and scarfed in. I suppose they were cut on a band saw? But not sure... and then the groove on the bottom... can that be done on a router table? Or is that done by hand with a wood chisel? After the corners the teak runs straight back towards the stern of the boat and the height of the wall of the cowling here tapers down toward the deck and at the end the teak cap curves less than 90 degrees down and is scarfed to another straight piece that ends at the deck. This sort of "elbow" piece looks like the grooves were carved in with a wood chisel as the bottom of the groove is rough and looks like a chisel was at work in there. There are also some evenly spaced 2mm deep holes drilled into the bottom of this groove and apparently it was for bonding purposes... or might have been a depth guide for the chisel work... I don't really know, but these holes are seen only in these curved pieces that may have been done completely by hand.

Anyway... it's fascinating... I love to work on this boat and would like to master this skill. Time is something I have plenty of. I have a nice Craftsman router and have stored several plans for building a router table on my computer hard drive.

As you can probably tell... I'm not in a hurry and the teak trim is a project that is down the line after the cowling is redone.

Any further comments you may have would be absorbed like a sponge by me.

Thanks for your help.

Bob

PS: The cruiser was built in 1973 (in Japan under license from Bertram), it's 56,' very thick and tough fiberglass hull and I'm doing a complete restoration... replacing the deck and other surfaces that have rotted. I'm using a urethane board to replace the plywood on the outside surfaces and also replacing some frames by laminating new ones using 4mm thick strips of the urethane board and epoxy and it has worked out quite nicely making surfaces and frames that will never rot again. The interior of the boat will be done in Apitong marine plywood and teak paneling in the salon and master stateroom.

The boat is in the water and I'm working outside during good weather. Facilities where are I am in Japan are practically non-existant and primitive... so I have to make-do with what I can get my hands on or build myself. Actually, it's a lot of fun.

[wolfietuk]

Bob,
Whatyou have described is a very simple cap. The groove on the bottom can be accomplished many ways. I do not know what your experiences are or what tools or facilities you have access to. The groove on the bottom can be accomplished (on the straight pieces) With a table saw, router, cisel, plane, or skil saw. I would cut the outside edges to the desired depth with a table saw (or agood skil saw with a guide). Then put a few more cutsthrough the waste area and chiesel out the rest. If you have a good dado blade it could all be done on a table saw. The curved pieces could be done with arouter. saw some scrap to the shape you desire and attach it to the piece youare working on. Use a bit with a following bearing.
If the top is a simple roundover it can be done with a router. It can be done before or after installation. I would recomend doing it before. if your joints are not a perfect match you can shape them in place with plane, chiesel, rasp,and file, and then sand to perfection.

Rick

[Barnacle Bob]

Thanks Rick,

Yeah... I'm starting to get the picture. The straight pieces are quite straight forward. I made a table saw from the plans in the book "This Old Boat" and it works quite well.

The curved pieces will probably have to be cut out of a pretty good size chunk of teak with a bandsaw. Getting the scarfed joints perfect is something I need to practice. I saw a nice powered miter saw imported from China... nice heavy alluminum base, plastic housing encased motor and all the precision angle settings, etc. for under $100. at the local super store here where I live. Maybe this would do the trick.

I also found a teak supplier in Thailand:

www.thaiteakmarine.com (http://www.thaiteakmarine.com)

he makes grating, swim platforms, trim, loovers, and doors, etc. and custom design stuff from Thai teak. His prices are quite reasonable and I might have him make some sliding doors for the lounge behind the pilot house, later as things progress.

Ideas, ideas... fund to think about.

Thanks for your input.

Bob

[Paul Scheuer]

The whole thing could be done with a router, if you don't mind the extra kerf. There was a time that the router and a drill were the only power tools I had. I figured that I could do just about anything, with a little extra sawdust. Take your time and plan plenty of jigs and fixtures. You can probably get better large radiused cuts with a router than with the bandsaw.

While I'm here, anyone got any comments on how to keep the power tools from clogging with oily teak dust ?

[ 10-25-2004, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: Paul Scheuer ]

[wolfietuk]

Paul,
Hook them to a vaccum. Easy to set up on a stationary power tool. more diffucult on a router.
Rick