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72rdstr
11-15-2006, 06:46 PM
Well, it looks like all the new election controls and electronic voting machines we installed worked as desired.
I'm not hearing any claims of stolen elections, demands for recounts or accusations of hacked machines.
What a change two years makes. Looks like we got the bugs worked out!http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h122/ricochet69/smileys/bigtup.gif

uncas
11-15-2006, 06:47 PM
Last time it was the Dems who complained.. This year, they won.. no complaints...

72rdstr
11-15-2006, 06:50 PM
Last time it was the Dems who complained.. This year, they won.. no complaints...

No way, couldn't be that. I'm sure as the party of honesty and integrity, they'd have pointed out any problems regardless of who won.:D

High C
11-15-2006, 06:53 PM
...I'm not hearing any claims of stolen elections, demands for recounts or accusations of hacked machines...

You never do when reasonable grownups are the losers.

What about all the knuckleheads around here who screamed for months that Diebold was going to steal the election? :rolleyes:

uncas
11-15-2006, 06:53 PM
Well, the Reps haven't complained.. and the Dems sure did in 04 and 02 and in 00...What do ya think?
The Reps lost.. no complaints.. No request for a recount.. no taking it to the Supreme Court..No challenges.. no complaints about being disenfranchized.... Hey, the Reps lost.. so be it.

72rdstr
11-15-2006, 06:56 PM
Crickets....

Hwyl
11-15-2006, 07:04 PM
.. Hey, the Reps lost.. so be it. Yeh but they lost in 04, 02 and 00 as well. And you know it. They just could not cheat well enough to stop the popular surge this time.

I'm just waiting to see what ruse the POTUSidiot is going to use to stay in "power".

High C
11-15-2006, 07:06 PM
Yeh but they lost in 04, 02 and 00 as well. And you know it....

And here we have it folks, for all to see... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

uncas
11-15-2006, 07:07 PM
Gareth.. I will just disagree.. and leave it at that.
Personally I don't give a damn who wins or who won... It's gonna be the same, ole same ole regardless...You have faith where I just don't.
Ohh except for raising taxes.... I have faith in that and expect it... LOL

Memphis Mike
11-15-2006, 07:15 PM
You never do when reasonable grownups are the losers.

What about all the knuckleheads around here who screamed for months that Diebold was going to steal the election? :rolleyes:

Ah piss off you whiney little opera singer. I hope your faucet leaks for eternity.:D

High C
11-15-2006, 07:17 PM
Ah piss off you whiney little opera singer. I hope you're faucet leaks for eternity.:D

Where would you take a leak? :D

Milo Christensen
11-15-2006, 07:44 PM
The Reps lost.. no complaints.. No request for a recount...

It was very civil of us, wasn't it?

ljb5
11-16-2006, 12:28 AM
I'm not hearing any claims of stolen elections, demands for recounts or accusations of hacked machines.

What? You haven't heard anything?

You haven't noticed that there are still 9 seats in Congress that haven't been decided? One just decided in the last 24 hours.

There's one race in Florida where 18,000 votes are missing in one county, but all the surrounding counties have normal results. That's easily enough votes to make a difference in the result of the election. (Not surprising: the votes are missing from a Democratic-leaning area.)

The fact that you aren't aware of these problems probably says more about you than it does about the election systems.


-----------------------------------------------

By the way, have you heard that Rumsfeld's replacement, Gates, used to work for a voting machine company?

westinghouse
11-16-2006, 04:53 AM
Well, I dunno about any dumb-ass college kids or stool pushin' granola munchers but I sure am happy to see little bush43 has taken poppa's hand and gotten some of the old man's pals to bail him out. After taking Rummy to the prom just to get poppa's goat, it seems junior might be ready to cool off with his oedipal drama and let the nation get on with things. I'm too elated by this turn of events to even think about the next election yet, but you neo cons keep on frothin at the mouth if that's what you need to do. If this is what comes from a midterm, I can't even imagine the crap that's coming at election time.

'Stool pushin' granola munchers' - that's about as subtle and intelligent as dogsh!t on pavement.

Phillip Allen
11-16-2006, 06:25 AM
"Stool pushin' granola munchers' - that's about as subtle and intelligent as dogsh!t on pavement."

Yes, but more imaginative...

Rick Starr
11-16-2006, 06:32 AM
Sore winners? Sore losers? Just plain sore? Sheesh. I'll be interested to see where the various hate-mongers turn next.

Phillip Allen
11-16-2006, 06:37 AM
Sore winners? Sore losers? Just plain sore? Sheesh. I'll be interested to see where the various hate-mongers turn next.

I expect they'll gloat over their "win" for a while...

Chris Coose
11-16-2006, 06:57 AM
If you don't think a paper back-up so a proper recount can be made is not a good idea than you can take a flying f*ck in my book.

If pissing and moaning about stolen elections on crap voting machines is the only thing that didn't happen that was predicted I'm OK with that but I still don't trust them.
Nicaragua has a tighter voting system than we do.

Our system is antiquated and easily corrupted and there is no excuse in the world for that.

Phillip Allen
11-16-2006, 06:58 AM
I still haven't forgotten Kennedy stealing the 1960 election...from the people (not Nixon)

Chris Coose
11-16-2006, 07:42 AM
I still haven't forgotten Kennedy stealing the 1960 election...from the people (not Nixon)

That was 45 years ago and you are still stuck with it, which is an excellent example for keeping elections free from dark clouds or the possible completly fu*ked.

There is absolutely no reason an election can't be held that is free from theft.
It is the foundation from which our entire system is built from.
Anmd you guys take pride that we are not bitchin .... give me a fu*king break.

huisjen
11-16-2006, 07:50 AM
I want to see a paper confirmation be made manditory for electronic voting machines. Better yet, lets just use paper balots. I really liked the system used when I lived in Pierce County, Washington. Optically read paper ballots, and mail in ballots for everyone. It raised voter turnout significantly. Of course the republicans hated that. ;)

Dan

uncas
11-16-2006, 07:53 AM
Coming froma Republican Dan.. :) I agree with the old paper trail...Considering what the elections boards have spent on new machines, this should not be that expensive..
Here on the Eastern Shore, currently all they can do is count the number of people who voted and compare them with the number of ballots for the candidates.. Crude.. doesn't go far enough but it is better than nothing.

High C
11-16-2006, 09:57 AM
Meaning absolutely no disrespect, I think you're living in a fool's paradise...

Meaning absolutely no disrespect, but reading your posts is less interesting than watching paint dry. If wit was spit, your mouth would be drier than a shallow well in an African heat wave. You're a waste of time, space, air, and flesh. You have a face that makes Medusa look like a supermodel.

Meaning absolutely no disrespect, of course.

uncas
11-16-2006, 10:01 AM
Damn High C.. I got reported for less than that....

Rick Starr
11-16-2006, 10:02 AM
ROTFLOL!

Wait for it.....any moment now we'll hear the cries of ad hominem attack and dismissive attitude....

uncas
11-16-2006, 10:05 AM
Rick.. Well I did.......Humph!

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
11-16-2006, 10:05 AM
Damn High C.. I got reported for less than that....

Uncas, perhaps you had dipped beneath your normal standards - it's all about the management of expectation.

uncas
11-16-2006, 10:09 AM
Probably Norman.. geez... though.. I may have dipped a wee bit but I sense that what I did write.. a lot wished they'd had...
It's okay though... I got past it.. although at the time I did think it was funny....

ljb5
11-16-2006, 10:20 AM
Actually, the 15,000 votes "missing" are likely to become " never were ". There is some speculation the "registered" voters did not exist.

I don't know what race you're talking about, but I'm talking about Florida's 13th Congressional district where 18,000 registered voters recorded votes for all the other issues on the ballots, but somehow failed to record a vote for Congress.

It's not unusual for a voter to cast some votes and leave others blank -- but usually they vote for the big ticket stuff and skip over the small issues. It's even more unusual for this type of anomaly to happen in one county and not in the adjoining areas.

Currently the race is undecided with fewer than 400 votes separating the candidates.


------------------------------------------------------

Phillip, we have discussed the 1960 presidential election several times before (have you forgotten?) There is no logical way to claim Kennedy stole it. Maybe you could claim that he stole Illinois, but that wouldn't have changed the result of the election. Nixon still would have needed to pick up a few more states.

As it turns out, Nixon actually ended up losing Hawaii in the recount.

I think it's time to put your 46 year-old, unjustified accusations to rest.

John of Phoenix
11-16-2006, 10:33 AM
Does ANYONE think hic actually came up with that on his own?

High C
11-16-2006, 10:37 AM
Does ANYONE think hic actually came up with that on his own?

Of course not. It came from an insult generator, much like the rant and rave generators some around here often use. Ahemmmm...

The insult itself, however, was hardly the point.

John of Phoenix
11-16-2006, 10:39 AM
Oops "hic" should have been HiC. (An original insult)

Rick Starr
11-16-2006, 10:44 AM
HiC, Mrs. LaPointe will never, ever, get it.

uncas
11-16-2006, 10:44 AM
Why are we all rehashing last Tuesday.. It's over.. ya know.. over....
Everyone in the media etc. has already has their eyes on 08...
So there are nine.. based on ljb5's calculations where the vote is undecided.. Big deal.. tough shyte, unimportant... past history... useless debate.. Regardless, we have what we have in the senate and the house regardless as to what happens....

High C
11-16-2006, 10:49 AM
HiC, Mrs. LaPointe will never, ever, get it.

That's sadly obvious....

High C
11-16-2006, 10:52 AM
HiC...


BTW, I've been meaning to mention that your Handbilly skiff is absolutely stunning! I love the lines and the big boat boat stem, and the covered motor well, of course. I've always had a thing for skiffs with the inboard motor wells. When I was a kid we had one, a 16' North Carolina boat.

Where can I get a look at those plans? Thanks!

ljb5
11-16-2006, 11:37 AM
So there are nine.. based on ljb5's calculations where the vote is undecided.. ..

That's not based on my calculations.... it's straight from CNN.com

Check it out for yourself (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/)

ccmanuals
11-16-2006, 01:14 PM
Gotta say it's kinda weird that we will submit our taxes "on-line", pass our credit card number all over the internet, pay bills on line. etc. etc. but we still don't trust a digital voting machine. I for one trust the machine more than I would a paper ballet. It takes some degree of sophistication to manipulate a secure voting machine while it takes none to manipulate paper. All you need is either a pen or a paper shredder or a handy dumpster to play with paper votes. Just my .02

ljb5
11-16-2006, 11:14 PM
Gotta say it's kinda weird that we will submit our taxes "on-line", pass our credit card number all over the internet, pay bills on line. etc. etc. but we still don't trust a digital voting machine.

Ccmanuals: You're right, it is weird.

Both Norman and I have worked in the field of electronic and computerized control systems. I think I can speak for both of us when I say there is no technical or logical reason why a simple, reliable electronic voting machine cannot be made.

Bear in mind: Diebold makes ATM machines and the accuracy rate of ATMs is darn near 100% -- so we know it can be done.

If it's not a question of technological capability, it must be a question of motivation. Do they really want to make a reliable system? What is their motivation? Who is holding them accountable?

The more you look at these companies, the more you find that they have strong ties to Republican activists --- in some cases, to Republican candidates.

It's almost as if they don't want to have free and fair elections. Weird, huh?

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-16-2006, 11:30 PM
"There is some speculation the "registered" voters did not exist."

Registered voters and votes are two destinct items and are not to be confused. The number of votes should match the number of voters who signed the poll books that day.
You knew that,didn't you?

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-16-2006, 11:37 PM
"I have a feeling those voting problems will arise again after Bella Pelosi sucks the blood from America's wallets for two years..."

You may not have noticed but, there is a war going on. And all of it is being paid for with borrowed dough. You, or your decendents will have to repay off all the extended credit.
Nancy has decided now is the time to do it just to piss you off.

George Jung
11-16-2006, 11:38 PM
The more you look at these companies, the more you find that they have strong ties to Republican activists --- in some cases, to Republican candidates.


I just know you wouldn't be so foolish as to make such a statement without some attribution - and I'm sure all here would love to know the source of this information.

ljb5
11-16-2006, 11:43 PM
I just know you wouldn't be so foolish as to make such a statement without some attribution - and I'm sure all here would love to know the source of this information.

You're right. I wouldn't make such a statement without knowing the facts are on my side.

The question now is: Are you going to do the necessary research on your own before you try to argue with me....

...or are you going to take a position first and then learn the facts?

The choice is yours. I already know the facts --- and I already have the evidence in hand.

Do you?

ljb5
11-16-2006, 11:48 PM
George, I'm in a generous mood tonight, so I'll save you some effort in your research.

Look up Chuck Hagel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Hagel#Business_career) on Wikipedia and read about ES&S.

Do the same thing for Ken Blackwell, Walden O'Dell and Diebold.

Get back to us with your results.

Chris Coose
11-17-2006, 06:28 AM
few,
If you set up a strategy to steal an election by doing merry -go -round voting you would be quickly discovered and considered dumber than a bag-o -hammers. Not dumb because you did it. Dumb because of all ways to steal an election it is the least likely method to succeed compared to what has evolved.

Sarasota County, made famous by Katherine Harris, you remember, the woman who was in charge of voting in FL in 2000 and who also happened to be the vice chair of the elect dubbya campaign, has just junked their new 4.7 million dollar machines to return to paper ballots in 2008. It isn't ironic that 18,000 votes are missing in this county.

How you see this as a partisan issue is beyond me.
How anybody can defend a system that would miscount one American and not demand the system be corrected immediately deserves to be ruled by tyrants and pimps.

ccmanuals
11-17-2006, 12:37 PM
In my humble opinion and I know this is shared by many others, is that manipulation of the voting system really is not easily done with the voting machine. True manipulation is being accomplished through the voter registration process. I believe that is where we need to have some serious Federal guidance. Voter registration filters and manipulation of the laws and lists go on today at State and local levels.

Here is a sample of what I speak. It's testimony from a member of the AARP Board of Directors to a Congressional Oversight Committee:

http://www.tcf.org/Publications/ElectionReform/NCFER/rel_materials/h3/Kenneth_Huff-testimony.htm

uncas
11-17-2006, 01:07 PM
I'm gonna say off the top.. this is nuts..

I'm sure there were problems with voting.
Im sure that thousands of votes were'nt counted.
I'm sure there were issues..
However
The bottom line is.. the votes are in... So be it..

What is more important? Those who control what happens, solves problems, and goes foreward or a house and senate sitting there stewing over what happened.. ? I go and lean towards getting something done..
So gripe all ya want.. say the voting systems suck....that's easy...its past history. It doesn't make a difference. If some want to waste 2 yrs.. while we continue to sink, so be it...

I want something done.. Now if ya ask me, was my vote thrown in the dumpster and not counted? I don't know and ya know what, I don't care. I did what I was suppsed to do... I voted. Am I complaining no.... Am I complaining against all those who say they have been disenfranchized, not allowed to vote.. there is a problem with the voting machines.. yes.

ccmanuals
11-17-2006, 01:24 PM
Or if your boy "Steny" lost because of it?

johnw
11-17-2006, 02:06 PM
I'm not one of those who was dreadfully worried that malicious people would use electronic voting machines to steal the election. It does seem prudent to me to have a paper trail to audit an election. Just common sense, shouldn't even be controversial.

What I'd like to know is, if Republicans are such gracefull losers, why are the Republicans on this thread spewing bile and insults? I get the impression there is a certain bitterness there.

Here's what I think is the real problem. The country is so scientifically gerrymandered, very few seats are actully contested. In California, this favors Democrats, in Texas, it favors Republicans. In safe seats, the candidate selection is actually made in the primary, and this tends to produce a more polarized congress. If there were more contested seats, more politicians would have to appeal to the center, rather than the radical wings of their parties.

Currently, the gerrymandering tends to favor Republicans. The Democrats got a higher percentage of votes in this past election than the Republicans did in '94, but only made about the same gains in seats. Eventually, the cycle will turn, and the Democrats will be the beneficiaries of gerrymandering. Isn't it time we found a better and fairer way to do redistricting? There are a lot more votes 'stolen' by gerrymandering than have ever been stolen by other methods.

johnw
11-17-2006, 02:22 PM
Gerrymandering and vote fraud are only two of the ways that democracy gets perverted, John.... I'd say that the biggest contributor is really money. We legalize an institution called 'lobbying' whose intent is to illegally influence the legislative process.

I could live with the gerrymandering... and could even tolerate a certain amount of vote fraud... if we could find a way to get the money out of the process. I've thought a lot about this, and my personal conclusion is that we need real, meaningful capaign reform.... the McCain Feingold law made things worse, not better, but it's still not an argument aganst taking legislative action to prevent money from becoming equal to free speech.

Whack-a-mole.

ccmanuals
11-17-2006, 02:50 PM
Norman, my Steny remark was for uncas. Sorry for the confusion. Also, I completely agree with your comment regarding money as the root of many of our problems.

uncas
11-17-2006, 02:54 PM
Are you so sure you'd feel all that benign if the candidate you really despised won because of it? Norman

For all I know most of them did... Only one or two of those I voted for did win.. out of ummm.. 20... The only one I voted for because I liked him and trusted him won by 70% of the vote.. Guess I wasn't the only one there.
I'm still not screaming fraud.. disenfranchisement.. broken machines, long lines..
I'm taking it on the chin.. and rearraginging my portfolio.. for tax purposes...

ps.. dispise is a harsh word.. How about distrust?

brad9798
11-17-2006, 03:09 PM
No bile or insults from me!!! It was time for a change ... and it happened.

Let's see how it plays out ...

johnw
11-17-2006, 03:46 PM
No bile or insults from me!!! It was time for a change ... and it happened.

Let's see how it plays out ...

Yeah, at least 'Abscam' Murtha didn't get the spot he wanted. I think one test for the Dems is whether they are willing to tackle corruption in their own party. Now that they have more influence, somebody's going to want to buy it....

ljb5
11-17-2006, 03:55 PM
So gripe all ya want.. say the voting systems suck....that's easy...its past history. It doesn't make a difference.

Two weeks ago it wasn't "past history."

Two weeks ago, the election was in the future.

How come you didn't want to do anything about it then?

uncas
11-17-2006, 05:06 PM
ljb5
Blow it out your ear.. Some people just go whining to the nearest monitor.. I don't
Why because I didn't have to or feel the need to.( still don't think there was a reason to ). We all know the machines are at the least questionable..It's the name of the game.....So be it..
Reason enough..
Oh and report me for telling you where ya can get off. I'm sure Scot would love hearing from you.. again....

ljb5
11-17-2006, 05:21 PM
I like free, fair and reliable elections.

I don't need to "blow that out my ear."

I honestly have no idea what you're upset about, Jamie.

We have an opportunity to fix some problems with our voting systems. Before the election, you didn't want to fix the problem because you didn't believe in it. After the election, you don't want to fix the problem because the election is over.

You have a remarkably lax approach to the health of our Democracy.

It kinda seems like you don't want to fix the problem at all --- and you're nasty to anyone who does.

uncas
11-17-2006, 05:34 PM
I like free, fair and reliable elections.

I don't need to "blow that out my ear."

I honestly have no idea what you're upset about, Jamie. ljb5

You have no right to call me Jamie.. Friends call me Jamie.. You are not a friend..And I am almost twice your age.. Show some respect for your elders....
As far as your concept of free, fair, reliable elections are concerned, that only happens when the Dems win. In which case it was a free, fair and reliable election.. Otherwise you would be climbing the perverbial wall. I'm not...
And if I appear upset.. it is you.. I can't honestly figure out why you are here....
Can ya tell me why you are? You don't participate much above the bilge.. you don't make an effort to help anyone..You don't seem to be into boat building.. you don't seem to be into anything related to boats at all. you make no effort to really participate in anything except political threads..You don't seem to care about anyone here...Or show any interest in who the others are as people.. You do not share their good times or their bad..Even when Meer posted that ( luckily ) poorly worded thread title.. where many of us thought the Meer was about to die, no comment or post from you.no show of interest or concern.... And you have met him.... Why are you here...?
I'm not upset at the system.. The system needs improvement.. so be it.. Someone. perhaps even the Dems will do something about it after they figure out who is in charge...

ljbb5 Have ya ever noticed that I disagree with Norman more often than not and yet, I still get along with him? We agree to disagree. We argue.. but we do it as adults. Maybe it is beacuse we have a common thread.. boats.. sailing.. boats...Still it is something we both happen to love... ..Seems to be hard to do with you...
Me nasty.. you invented the term.

johnw
11-17-2006, 06:54 PM
The pattern is, whoever spent the money on voting machines, whether Democrat or Republican, claims there's no problem, they work fine. The truth is, people are worried about whether their vote will be counted. Why not provide an audit trail? I do it in my business, I do it for my taxes, why is voting less important? Why is this even an issue? Uncas, are you actually against this?

Phillip Allen
11-17-2006, 07:12 PM
I really don't know much about electronic voting...we use paper ballots. This year touch-screen machines were in the polls but I made a bee line to the paper ballot line...nearly everyone did when I was there...a short time.

ljb5
11-17-2006, 07:20 PM
I can't honestly figure out why you are here....

Then stop wasting your time and energy worrying about it.

There's nothing you can do about it.

Please put me on your 'ignore' list.


You do not share their good times or their bad..Even when Meer posted that ( luckily ) poorly worded thread title.. where many of us thought the Meer was about to die, no comment or post from you.no show of interest or concern....

Leave Meerkat's health problems out of this.

His cancer is not an opportunity for you to criticize me.

If Meerkat has a problem with the way I've expressed my concern for him, he can raise that himself. It's none of your damn business.

uncas
11-17-2006, 07:23 PM
It was an example you troll..to show ya don't care about anything or anyone but yourself. Of course you couldn't figure that out now could ya...
ooops another report in the making.... I called him a troll....
You alweays hit that don't you..?
Who you are.. none of my biusiness?
Why you are here?.. none of my business.
Yup.. you are a troll and that is certainly none of my business.

The bottom line is.. ya don't have an answwer hence the " none of my business " routine...

Phillip Allen
11-17-2006, 07:27 PM
Uncas...no one missed your point about Meerkat...don't worry. He's just using an old trick to shock you into being on the defense...a standard juvenile ploy...very transparent.

ljb5
11-17-2006, 07:29 PM
Grow up, Jamie. Your constant obsessing about me is very, tiresome.

You use Meerkat's suffering as if it were a point in your favor. That's sick.

Phillip Allen
11-17-2006, 07:32 PM
repeat... (same ploy but in adolescent falsetto)

uncas
11-17-2006, 07:32 PM
And you tell me to grow up... right on you babe in arms.. You know absolutely nothing about real life.
Why don't you go haunt some other forum.. you have nothing to offer us here..
Heck, you are not even worth insulting...

ljb5
11-17-2006, 07:35 PM
you have nothing to offer..

If you feel that way, please feel free to add me to your 'ignore' list.

uncas
11-17-2006, 07:41 PM
If you took your attitude and Dem baggage to some other forum, I wouldn't have to...
And as usual, you have not answered my question... not that you will but it is still hanging out there... Why are you here?

ljb5
11-17-2006, 07:43 PM
Jamie, I can't figure out what set you off.

We were having a perfectly normal discussion about the reliability of voting machines --- and then all of a sudden, you told me to "blow it out my ear."

Why can't you just address the topic without making it personal?

ljb5
11-17-2006, 07:44 PM
Why are you here?

I've answered that question many times.

"Because I enjoy it."

I enjoy discussing news, politics, science and current events. I also sail, kayak and have an interest in wooden boats.

I don't need any other reason.... and I don't have to explain or justify it to you.

uncas
11-17-2006, 07:46 PM
Rotflmao..practically swept the entire floor with tyat ljb...

let me catch my breath.. Ya certainly have not demonstrated it.. liking wooden boats..or any of the sort..or giving a damn about us in general....

Gonna go back to laughing now....I like a good joke even if it comes from you. Should keep me laughing until the next election... Oh, my sides hurt....

brad9798
11-17-2006, 08:23 PM
Ljb5 is a smart person ... unfortunately, he is caught up thinking he is more intelligent that the rest of the world.

Does his homework ... but is blinded in most of his opines ... :eek:

ljb5
11-17-2006, 08:26 PM
Ya certainly have not demonstrated it.. liking wooden boats..or any of the sort..or giving a damn about us in general....

You think I'm under some type of obligation to demonstrate it??

To you????

Who do you think you are, the Grand Pooba of the forum?

Meerkat
11-17-2006, 08:29 PM
Anjybody who plants a grand poohbah in here is going to have to clean it up! :D

uncas
11-17-2006, 08:29 PM
ROTFLMAO
Damn, this is beginning to hurt....
Two jokes in a row...oh. my sides are killing me....

brad9798
11-17-2006, 08:35 PM
Oh, ljb5 ... you are such the kid!

You have no idea how SILLY you look to most folks around here ...


(Oh, wait, of course you don't care what we think ... you have the world figured out ... that's why you live in a mansion, control companies, have the most beautiful wife, etc.) :) :) :)

YOU are the king of the world ... :cool:

When you start accumulating wealth, and things ... your opinions on politics will change.

Nothing obnoxious ... just truth.

I was ONCE like you ... ugh ... :)

uncas
11-17-2006, 09:12 PM
I was ONCE like you ... ugh ... Brad..


Umm. were you really that bad..

Self centered
Egotistical
Rightous
Uncaring
Rude
Obnoxious
Indugled
Superior attitude
Unrelenting
Stuck in a rut...



How in heck doid you get out of this...?

ljb5
11-17-2006, 09:13 PM
When you start accumulating wealth, and things ... your opinions on politics will change.

What do you mean, "when"?

I already have a house, a boat, a good job and a beautiful wife.

Not bad for 30 years old.

You act like you know so much about me.

----------------------------------------------------

It's odd that you mention a change in political perspective. Just last week I noticed a huge change in the nation's opinion on politics..... suddenly, everyone has come around to my way of thinking!

uncas
11-17-2006, 09:15 PM
ROTFLMAO.....
God.. three in a row.... I'm gonna have to save these.. my ribs hurt too much... Another joke... I love it..
And no we don't know anything about you.. that's the point..Actually to be a part of this forum, it is our business to know who we are dealing with.. but.. as you so often repeat, it is none of our business...so.... don't use that " you don't know me " as an excuse...
Back to laughing.... damn. I can't take too much more of this.... What a joke... written by a pro...

George Jung
11-17-2006, 09:18 PM
The more you look at these companies, the more you find that they have strong ties to Republican activists --- in some cases, to Republican candidates.


I just know you wouldn't be so foolish as to make such a statement without some attribution - and I'm sure all here would love to know the source of this information.

Hehehe, Lil'; is that the best ya got? I checked out that site, but all I saw was Chuck Hagel, noted critic of Bush and co., as the former CEO of ES&S. If that's all you got, that's really lame. Looks a lot like '6 degrees of Kevin Bacon'. :p By that measure, I suspect You'd be implicated!

ljb5
11-17-2006, 09:26 PM
Hehehe, Lil'; is that the best ya got? I checked out that site, but all I saw was Chuck Hagel, noted critic of Bush and co., as the former CEO of ES&S. If that's all you got, that's really lame. Looks a lot like '6 degrees of Kevin Bacon'. :p By that measure, I suspect You'd be implicated!

Seriously, you just checked out one site? Google gives me more than 27,000 hits. Try doing a little research instead of depending on me to spoon-feed you information.

It's almost like you don't actually want to find the facts. You just check out one site on Wikipedia and think you've looked into it? The world is full of information. Seek it out, drink it up.

There's a lot more to the story (http://www.hillnews.com/news/012903/hagel.aspx)

Including the fact that he failed to properly disclose his ownership of the company (through a shell) in his financial statements....

.... and that 85% of the votes in his election were cast on machines that he owned.

It's all very well documented.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I notice you didn't look into Diebold and Walden O'Dell.

Oh... and by the way, Hagel's campaign manager, Michael McCarthy, just happens to be the chairman of the shell corporation that owns the voting machine company. I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

Six degrees of Kevin Bacon? More like conflict of interest.

72rdstr
11-17-2006, 09:30 PM
What do you mean, "when"?

I already have a house, a boat, a good job and a beautiful wife.

Not bad for 30 years old.

You act like you know so much about me.

----------------------------------------------------

It's odd that you mention a change in political perspective. Just last week I noticed a huge change in the nation's opinion on politics..... suddenly, everyone has come around to my way of thinking!

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=88

Go there and join up. Corvette Forum's very own Politics, Religion and Controversy section. We're all rich, handsome geniuses with super-model wives. You'll fit right in...as a punching bag for the resident pubs or dems; you'd be woefully outgunned and your little streak of nastiness would get you sent to banned camp (scotted) over there.

uncas
11-17-2006, 09:39 PM
Okay.. I am between laughing all over the floor.
Why is it.. ljb5, that out of 12000 members plus a few, I get along with practically everyone else.... and you are the odd man out...
Is it that I don't agree with someone.. nope as I don't.. and they know it.and they don't nec. agree with me, but we all live with our disagreements. and do not criticize them for disagreeing with me.. and visa versa......It is our right to disagree with eachother.. we still have common ground...
Is it because I find you have an attitude.. a holier than thou approach and makes me feel as though I am not worthy of sweeping the floor where you walk ( and I ain't alone ) ? That's part of it....
To me.. I go beyond disagreeing with you.. It is hard to have a discussion with someone who feels that what he says and writes is the only thing acceptable...everyone else is wrong... That's you...
Now post again,, I need another laugh.. gotta sweep the floor in the living room and do the laundry.

ljb5
11-17-2006, 09:43 PM
Why is it.. ljb5, that out of 12000 members plus a few, I get along with praxctically everyone else.... and you are the odd man out...

Gosh, I really don't know ---- and I really don't care.

You don't need my permission to get along with anyone. And I don't care at all that you don't get along with me.

Believe me, I have never spent a moment of my life wondering why you don't like me ---- much less wishing that you would.

Who you like, and why, is your business and no concern of mine.


It is hard to have a discussion with someone who feels that what he says and writes is the only thing acceptable... That's you...

If you find it hard to have a discussion with me, please put me on your ignore list.

Phillip Allen
11-17-2006, 09:44 PM
Oh Jamie...the sanctimonious never see anything wrong with being sanctimonious...with them, it is virtue…give up on him, he is empty.

uncas
11-17-2006, 09:46 PM
Gosh, I really don't know ---- and I really don't care. ljb5

Figures.. puts yourself right in the profile I have created since you don't have one.... You don't care about anyone butr yourself..
I laugh ( but inside I cry for you ) because I bloody well feel sorry for you. I don't meet many people who are worth my pity.. you are one of the few... Report me...

ljb5
11-17-2006, 09:53 PM
Your business is your business, Jamie -- and I'm not going to spend one moment of my life speculating about why you make your personal choices.

Maybe you like me, maybe you don't --- that's not my business.

I will never understand why you demand so much personal information about me....

...nor will I understand why you think I should offer it to you.

When you have ever done anything which would make me want to share my private life with you? You've been nothing but nasty, insulting, argumentative, stupid, illogical and ignorant.

Such is your right. If you want to be nasty and stupid, that's your choice ---- but then you turn around and mope because I don't want to share my private life with you.

You act like I have some obligation to you. Like I should seek out your approval. Like I need your support. I do not.

You must have a very empty life to cling to me so desperately. I do not have such an inflated view of myself to think that I should be so important to you.

I'm humble enough to know that you can exist perfectly well without forming a deep, personal connection with me.

Let's just stick to the topic, shall we?

uncas
11-17-2006, 09:58 PM
Here is the major reason you troll. the forum is a family... You are not part of the family.. and again.. you do not have my permission to call me Jamie.. I don't like you. I don't respect you.. I feel sorry for you but that is besides the point.
Friends can call me by name.. You are thirty.. you are a neophyte.. I have taught students that are now older than you. You know nothing.. you are too young to know anything about life... Ya think ya do.. but boy, you have a lot to learn..one is manners....something that was forgotten in your youth....

a deep conect.. good there is the

ROTFLMAO

ljb5
11-17-2006, 10:02 PM
Here is the major reason you troll. the forum is a family... You are not part of the family..

Perhaps the forum is different things to different people. :cool:

It's not really up to you to decide who is "in" and who is "out."

Sooo, you don't consider me part of your 'family.' Why do you spend so much time and energy griping about it?

Why not just accept the fact that we won't be exchanging Christmas cards.... and then get over it?

I've known many, many people who don't consider me part of their 'family' --- and you're the only one who makes such a gad-awful stink about it.

uncas
11-17-2006, 10:09 PM
take a poll..ljb...Put your money where your mouth is...
Who contributes more.. who gets his head out of the bilge more.. who tries to help others more.. who tries to do as much as he can.. Advice where possible.. cooments when appropriate as I don't know everything...assistance where nec. help where nec. Willing to gather with others for an EBS.... go ahead.. set up a poll...
I'd be interested.. but I want a paper trail.
Your park you troll.

Phillip Allen
11-17-2006, 10:11 PM
Uncas...he doesn't have the cajonis (you can ask his wife...)

George Jung
11-17-2006, 11:00 PM
Lil'? Monkeyboy! Don't you know it's your job to back up 'statements of fact'? See, it goes like this: You make an outlandish statement, get called on it, and then it's your job to back it up, or eat it. It is not my job to do your work for you. But I think you know that. Want to promote a conspiracy theory? Be my guest. But back it up, because your word isn't worth anything on its own.

To the rest of ya... I don't understand why you fawn over ol' Lil'. He's abrasive, obnoxious, and really, not that smart. You especially, Brad! What's up with that? Why try and curry favor with the likes of such a twerp? Let the DNC troll go. It'll be soooo liberating!

uncas
11-17-2006, 11:06 PM
George J.. I've called him out...Asked him to put his money where his mouth is...
I agree.. but it seems the only thing that matters. to him.... is himslelf.
I'll watch to see how he backs out of this...
I'm willing to have a poll taken.. and voted on... It would be a free, fair and what was the term... viable.. no that ain't it... poll.
Oh that's right, it is a conspiracy....

I'm not gonna chase votes.I'm not gonna ask for votes or beg depending.. I'm not gonna advertize.Nor am I gonna try to sway people to vote for me..... The vote will be the vote.....It will be up to the formites...whatever happens.. I can and will live with it...

ljb5
11-17-2006, 11:33 PM
take a poll..ljb...Put your money where your mouth is...
Who contributes more.. who gets his head out of the bilge more.. who tries to help others more.. who tries to do as much as he can.. Advice where possible.. cooments when appropriate as I don't know everything...assistance where nec. help where nec. Willing to gather with others for an EBS.... go ahead.. set up a poll...
I'd be interested.. but I want a paper trail.
Your park you troll.


Jamie, that sounds like a very boring poll.

I gladly concede that you own a larger boat than I do and know more about sailing than I do. I acknowledge that you contribute to other sections of the forum more than I do. I acknowledge that you have met more forumites than I have.

So what?

I'm not interested in running for Homecoming King. I'm not here for a popularity contest.

I have never, ever, ever, claimed that I contribute more than you --- or that anyone should like me more than they like you.

You seem to need a lot of validation and acceptance in your life. If it means so much to you, set up a poll -- I'll be happy to vote for you.

ljb5
11-17-2006, 11:37 PM
Don't you know it's your job to back up 'statements of fact'? See, it goes like this: You make an outlandish statement, get called on it, and then it's your job to back it up, or eat it.

No, George. It has nothing to do with me.

The facts are the facts are the facts.

They exist entirely on their own merits and do not depend on me.

If you would like to know the facts, you are welcome to look them up. I will happily give you some advice and guidance, but I have no control over what the facts actually are.

72rdstr
11-17-2006, 11:39 PM
I STILL say the elections went off well. No major headlines claiming theft of elections or threats of lawsuits...

uncas
11-17-2006, 11:41 PM
ROTFLMAO.....
Has nothing to do with the size of the boat.I have a canoe too and I use it a lot..... a small boat.. I have friends on the forum with bigger boats and smaller boats.. the important point is, they love boats.... regardless of size.. Some build boats I drool over..I can't hammer a nail.......This has everything to do with the type of person we, as individuals are.......
Say its stupid.. you are the one who said my opinion didn't count.. I just called you on it and asked you to show your cards through a poll.......and put your money where your mouth is.... That's all.. REAL simple....
Good night troll....oh by the way, if you had gotten out of the bilge for a minute, you would know I don't have a boat except for the canoe....Uncas has been donated... I'm looking but I'm boatless at the moment...

and now that this is done, 72.. I agree... there may have been some glitches.. always are but the election ran pretty well.

ljb5
11-17-2006, 11:44 PM
I STILL say the elections went off well. No major headlines claiming theft of elections or threats of lawsuits...

I think they went of fairly well.

There are still seven undecided seats in Congress -- and a couple of races where the result could be reversed.

There were many reports of faulty voting systems.

You're right that there no "major headlines" about fraud and such....

.... I wonder if that says more about the election -- or about the people who write the headlines?

ljb5
11-17-2006, 11:46 PM
Gosh, Jamie... I'm hurt.

You didn't even ask about my new boat.

And I've been out in it three times this week.

uncas
11-17-2006, 11:49 PM
Why should I.. Its none of my business and you didn't tell anyone...Kinda hard to do or ask don't ya think? Or am I supposed to read minds. Of course that is none of my business either...
Ya made your bed now sleep in it...

ljb5
11-17-2006, 11:51 PM
By the way, 72Rdstr --- If you are really interested in information about the vote, you should check out this webpage. (http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/8/114.html)

There are dozens of stories there from major newspapers about the problems with voting.

It kinda makes me think that you didn't look very hard before you concluded there were no headlines about the issue.

72rdstr
11-17-2006, 11:53 PM
I think they went of fairly well.

There are still seven undecided seats in Congress -- and a couple of races where the result could be reversed.

There were many reports of faulty voting systems.

You're right that there no "major headlines" about fraud and such....

.... I wonder if that says more about the election -- or about the people who write the headlines?

109 posts and you FINALLY catch on... Sarcasm is lost on you, isn't it?

ljb5
11-17-2006, 11:54 PM
Why should I.. Its none of my business and you didn't tell anyone...Kinda hard to do or ask don't ya think? Or am I supposed to read minds. Of course that is none of my business either...
Ya made your bed now sleep in it...


What do you mean I didn't tell anyone? I just mentioned it a couple of times!

That's okay -- I'm not offended. It really isn't much of a boat. Sadly, not a sliver of wood in the whole thing. Definitely not suited for an ocean crossing. Yet, I like it plenty.

ljb5
11-18-2006, 12:01 AM
109 posts and you FINALLY catch on... Sarcasm is lost on you, isn't it?

Ah! I just got it! Very clever.

Seriously, though... there have been lots of reports in major media, like MSN and Associated Press about problems with voting.

It hasn't been more of an issue becuase this election wasn't even close. This was an absolute blow-out. If it had been close, a few votes here or there would have made a big difference and you would have seen more headlines.

It's kinda weird though.... even though we won, I'm still very concerned about fair voting. The same is true for Norman, Pat and Lee. We care more about getting the correct result than we do about Democrats winning.

I'm glad the Democrats won --- but I still want to improve the voting.

Republicans never seem to want fair voting.

72rdstr
11-18-2006, 12:03 AM
By the way, 72Rdstr --- If you are really interested in information about the vote, you should check out this webpage. (http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/8/114.html)

There are dozens of stories there from major newspapers about the problems with voting.

It kinda makes me think that you didn't look very hard before you concluded there were no headlines about the issue.

Well, Sparky; might I suggest you get off the web conspiracy sites and check out what the MSM is saying about the stolen elections. Oops, they aren't saying that. So, my premise stands, we must have fixed the problem.

ljb5
11-18-2006, 12:10 AM
Well, Sparky; might I suggest you get off the web conspiracy sites and check out what the MSM is saying about the stolen elections. Oops, they aren't saying that. So, my premise stands, we must have fixed the problem.

Problems with 70,000 votes in Colorado -- Rocky Mountain News (http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/8/45235.html?1163510978)

Ohio Congresswoman Schmidt can't vote for herself -- MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15590530/)

There are still 18,000 missing votes in Florida's 13th district --- in a mostly Democratic district.

There were dozens of reports of precints opening late or having too few machines because they wouldn't boot-up properly, or didn't have the right candidates.... In some races in Texas, they had the candidates listed in the wrong parties....

Yup, no problems at all!

72rdstr
11-18-2006, 12:16 AM
Problems with 70,000 votes in Colorado -- Rocky Mountain News (http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/8/45235.html?1163510978)

Ohio Congresswoman Schmidt can't vote for herself -- MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15590530/)

There are still 18,000 missing votes in Florida's 13th district --- in a mostly Democratic district.

There were dozens of reports of precints opening late or having too few machines because they wouldn't boot-up properly, or didn't have the right candidates.... In some races in Texas, they had the candidates listed in the wrong parties....

Yup, no problems at all!

Since I live here (CO) no problem, they're just having to count them by hand due to printing problems with the bar codes. Not stolen, not missing, blah blah. For those who insist on paper ballots and a full accounting, this is it. Takes a while to hand count ballots with the 2nd largest number of initiative in CO history. FWIW, nothing is going to change because of these ballots.
Again, where's the MSM furor over stolen elections? Where's the democratic hysteria over the elections? Since I'm not seeing it, I can only assume the problems are cured.
Do I have to hit you over the head with the "here's your sign" hammer or are you purposely being obtuse?

ljb5
11-18-2006, 12:18 AM
More from the Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/entertainment/ci_4616285)

Don't fool yourself -- there were problems, whether you've seen the headlines or not.

A hand-recount is only a partial solution. If some people had to wait two or more hours to vote, you can be sure that someone got fed-up and left without voting. That vote is lost forever. There's no recount that will ever show what they would have done.

In Ohio in 2004, some people had to wait 8 or 10 hours. How many voters left without voting? We will never know.


It's real simple: I want a fair and accurate election no matter what.

72rdstr
11-18-2006, 12:39 AM
Good for you. All who wanted to vote could/did. The polls were held open until everyone could vote.

FWIW, I did not have to wait to vote and I got to the polls 20 minutes before closing.

You are still missing the entire point of the thread...

Buh Bye, little man.

George Jung
11-18-2006, 12:40 AM
No, George. It has nothing to do with me.

Lil', you simply can't back up your claim. Now, what's that lil' dance you do? Oh yes, I'm right, and you've just proven yourself wrong! (My, that IS fun!):p

High C
11-18-2006, 01:15 AM
[B]...Lil', you simply can't back up your claim. Now, what's that lil' dance you do? Oh yes, I'm right, and you've just proven yourself wrong! (My, that IS fun!):p

And he doesn't seem to realize that the election was VERY close, at least in the Senate. Two razor thin Senate races, either of which could've kept the Senate in Republican hands. No challenges. No recounts. No lawyers. No creative counting. No claiming that our elders were too stupid to vote correctly. No media stunts. No protests.

The contrast is startling.

ljb5
11-18-2006, 11:29 AM
And he doesn't seem to realize that the election was VERY close, at least in the Senate.

Yes, I do realize this.... (although it wasn't nearly as close as Florida in 2000).

That's why I'm still very concerned to see election systems improved.

I'm not happy with an unreliable result -- even if it goes in my favor.

uncas
11-18-2006, 11:31 AM
I'm not happy with an unreliable result -- even if it goes in my favor.ljb5

ROTFLMAO

uncas
11-18-2006, 11:38 AM
Norman.. you I believe..If you had written and posted this.. I wouldn't have responded the same way... ljb5 I don't believe he knows what sincere means.... That's why it is funny..
It's a weekend.. no politics.. have a good day.

ljb5
11-18-2006, 11:51 AM
Lil', you simply can't back up your claim. Now, what's that lil' dance you do? Oh yes, I'm right, and you've just proven yourself wrong! (My, that IS fun!):p

George, this isn't a game where you try to score a point, and then I try to score a point...and then at halft time we switch sides.

This is reality where we deal with things like facts.

The facts exist because they exist.

Whether or not you are aware of them, the facts exist.
Whether or not you acknowledge them, the facts exist.
Whether or not you make an effort to find them, the facts exist.
Whether or not I present them to you, the facts exist.

It's much like scientific research. A scientist does not claim a result because they say so.......a researcher says, "I have found this to be true, and I invite you to verify it for yourself." -- then other scientists set up their own investigations to verify it.

This was my original statement:


The more you look at these companies, the more you find that they have strong ties to Republican activists --- in some cases, to Republican candidates.

Feel free to verify it. I'll give you some keywords to start your research:


Chuck Hagel
ES&S
Walden O'Dell
Kenneth Blackwell
William and Robert Ahmanson
Diebold
Data Mark
American Information Systems
Bob and Todd Urosevich


There is more than enough information for any competent researcher to find the facts. There is so much information that I could not possibly provide it all to you.

Open your eyes and look -- the world is full of facts --- all you have to do is seek them out.

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-18-2006, 11:55 AM
"How the hell does your area organize their polls."

In Ohio each voters signature appears pre-printed on the page and the voters must countersign next to it.
This year the Republican candidate for governer, Ken Blackwell, happened to be the top election official in Ohio. He tried to mess with the Democrat's minority base by ordering all voters supply a photo ID. It didn't work. He got drubbed by about 20 points anyway.

And by the way, the original comment was about tens of thousands of votes disappearing. You have shifted the argument into fraudulant voting which is all together different. If you are trying to steal a congressional election hijacking ballots is a more fruitful method than trying to organize tens of thousands of people to cast an equal number of bogus votes. Not even Karl Rove, at his best, is up to that.

ljb5
11-18-2006, 12:02 PM
If you are trying to steal a congressional election hijacking ballots is a more fruitful method than trying to organize tens of thousands of people to cast an equal number of bogus votes. Not even Karl Rove, at his best, is up to that.

Sneaking into a polling place and trying to vote under someone else's name is very risky.

What happens if the guy in line behind you says, "Hey, wait a second! He's not Joe Smith! My next-door neighbor is Joe Smith!"

Next thing you know, you've got the cops all over you.

That's pretty much what happened to Ann Coulter -- and I hope she goes to prison for it.

All that for just one vote? Nope, it's much safer, easier and more effective to just flip a switch on the machine and reverse a few thousand votes at once.


The registration and verification process needs improvement ---- but it is not the most significant threat to fair voting.

uncas
11-18-2006, 12:03 PM
I'm sorry to learn that your conviction about things depends less on the thing itself than your opinion of the person expressing the thing.
Norman..
In this case.. I'm looking at the messenger.. I don't beleive he believes in what he writes... Dems win.. no problem no complaints.. I can hear him screaming now if the Reps had maintained their seats in the house and the senate.
Are there problems.. yes... but to hear this garbage from the messenger... it is laughable....
Sorry Norman... I'll admit there are problems that need to be fixed... But I think ljb5 is damn'd happy and gloating that his side won...
Hey, it's Sat.. outta here.. You and ljb5 can hold the fort.

ljb5
11-18-2006, 12:09 PM
Dems win.. no problem no complaints.. I can hear him screaming now if the Reps had maintained their seats in the house and the senate.

What do you mean, "No problems, no complaints"????

I've been posting for days about the problems and complaints!

Go back and re-read this thread.... even though my side won, I'm still concerned about the problems and I'm still urging people to address the issue.

There are 18,000 suspiciously missing votes in one county in Florida ---- don't tell me that's not a problem!

ljb5
11-18-2006, 12:49 PM
One of the reasons why this election was (relatively) free of fraud and problems is the intense scrutiny before, during and after the election.

It's hard to steal an election when you know that everyone is watching you.

Who was it who said, "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"?

If you have confidence in the reliability of this election, you should thank those of us who have been working on the issue for years. Nobody every fixed a problem by insisting it didn't exist.

Just because a problem is no longer apparent, do not conclude that it never existed.

George Jung
11-18-2006, 01:30 PM
Yadayadayada.... Lil', yer such a putz!

uncas
11-18-2006, 01:47 PM
If you have confidence in the reliability of this election, you should thank those of us who have been working on the issue for years. Nobody every fixed a problem by insisting it didn't exist. ljb5

Glad you are around.. Don't know what I and the rest of mankind would have done without you.. Was that you at my polling station with the mask, and the batman costume... Shoulda known...right away.. my mistake for not recognizing you.I apologize..Am pleased to note you referred to election machines and the problems in the " past tense ". Is that because your soccer team won?
Wish there was another topic to discuss on the forum but this one seems to be the only game in town.. too bad.. had to break my promise.

pss. ljb5 lets see a picture of your boat..(oops none of my business. right!!!!)..so we can comment.... or is this asking too much...You can post it above the bilge even... under boat related or where ever...

ljb5
11-18-2006, 03:13 PM
Glad you are around.. Don't know what I and the rest of mankind would have done without you.. Was that you at my polling station with the mask, and the batman costume... Shoulda known...right away.. my mistake for not recognizing you.I apologize..

Your sarcasm is noted. You belittle me for taking an interest in the health of our democracy?

What's the alternative? Should I just sit back and say, "Gee, I know there are technical problems with the election -- but I'm not going to do anything about it?"

That's not how we deal with problems in reality. In reality, if you identify a problem, you notify people about it and work for a solution. I'm not taking credit for the (relative) success of this election. That credit goes to people like Bev Harris who has been working tirelessly to keep attention on this issue.

A little vigilance goes a long way.


----------------------------------------------------------

By the way, my boat is a Dagger ID 6.8. No pictures yet. Not much of a boat either, but it keeps me afloat (mostly.)

Phillip Allen
11-18-2006, 03:46 PM
"You belittle me for taking an interest in the health of our democracy?"

Isn't he the one who admonished us to NEVER vote for a Republican again...How does one reconcile that with democracy?

ljb5
11-18-2006, 04:25 PM
Yadayadayada.... Lil', yer such a putz!


While I don't dispute your right to hold such an opinion, I am not convinced that it enhances your credibility on the issue of voting machine reliability.

uncas
11-18-2006, 04:55 PM
Where is a picture of this mystery boat ljb5... ?
Or is this just some more.. ummm...?
You wrote that I didn't ask.. now I am....

ljb5
11-18-2006, 06:19 PM
Where is a picture of this mystery boat ljb5... ?

You got a reading comprehension problem, Jamie?

I just said, "No pictures yet."

"No pictures yet" means I don't have any goddam pictures of it. Can't you figure that out?

You think I walk around with a camera all the time just to take pictures of stuff so I can provide you with documentary proof of everything?

Besides, every time you see a picture, you claim it's a fake. Why the hell should I even bother?

Why the hell should I bother for you???

It's my goddam boat. If I want pictures of it, I'll take pictures of it --- but those will be my pictures, for me -- not for you.

Bob Adams
11-18-2006, 06:40 PM
Boy, I missed a good one. Has someone watched "Hacking Democracy" one time too many???

High C
11-18-2006, 06:54 PM
Jamie, you should realize that those pictures are on the same roll of film with the pics from the meeting in Seattle with Lew and Meerkat. It's a long roll, at least a thousand exposures, and it's not all used up yet.

It's gonna take some time to get 'em processed, too. Those long rolls take a while.

Patience, grasshopper, patience.....

uncas
11-18-2006, 07:34 PM
Typical response from the troll. One minute he complains that I did not ask aboput his boat and then, when I do, he complains that I did...
And High C.. comment noted.. :) Just can't please a kid....

Also.. checked the previous posts on this thread.. nothing about not being able to deliver pictures...Maybe your mind is slipping lijb5...Or you posted under some other political thread by mistake... That's okay...
Not that it matters.. you have made my point.. regardless. TROLL....

Oh and all those words you used to describe me sound as if they come directly from your upcoming autobiography.

Chris Coose
11-18-2006, 09:00 PM
What's funny about that statement, Jamie? Is it inconcievable that someone might haver a fervent nonpartisan belief about the integrity of elections? For the record, I feel exactly the same way as ljb5 does.

Add me to the list.
One other thought should be added to this thread which deserves attention which I shared with the Chair of the Democrat Party in Maine and a good frined outside our poling place.

It isn't the votes that are stolen, lost or other wise manipulated and learn about in the media, it is the ones we don't hear or know about that we should be concerned with.
The ones we learn about in the media have been busted.
The best electoral theafts are the ones that nobody ever knows about.

The scoundrals have come from both parties since we've been voting but these days there should be no excuse, no defense and no ignorance (as in, willing to ignore)

BTW, I value ljb5 as a member of this forum. He is correct, the ignore function should be used on him if he bores you.

johnw
11-18-2006, 09:29 PM
Uncas, you still haven't answered my question. Do you think there should be a paper audit trail for the votes?

Phillip Allen
11-19-2006, 03:05 AM
Along the audit thought...if there is a paper trail and there's an audit and a number of votes are un-accounted for, what then...re vote or cast the precinct out or just what?

uncas
11-19-2006, 07:09 AM
johnw

Actually I have somewhere along abouts.. To answer you again.. yes.
When I voted here last week, I asked how the system worked. There is a semi paper trail as you are given a white piece of paper which is submitted.. indicating you voted.. then the machine vote.. The two numbers should tally at the end of the day.
Obviously not enough.. but again, to anser your question yes...

However, as with past attempts.. we will end up having a new term to go along with Chad....because something will go wrong..paper trail or not or someone will complain.. used the wrong pen, wrong color..ballot was hard to figure out... I like the last one because most voters I know get a sample in the mail before hand before the actual vote so they know what to expect.

probably the least expensive approach would be a mailed ballot but that is opening up a can of worms.. Every ballot would have to be verified as to whether the individual is registered to vote.. takes time...and someone will probably say he was disenfranchized because he could not afford a stamp.. speaking of stamps.. if that upside down Jenny was real and put on that ballot I bet that voter is some upset right about now...

ljb5
11-19-2006, 10:45 AM
Also.. checked the previous posts on this thread.. nothing about not being able to deliver pictures...Maybe your mind is slipping lijb5...

Wow, Jamie, you really are having some reading comprehension problems. Check the thread one more time, very carefully.


By the way, my boat is a Dagger ID 6.8. No pictures yet. Not much of a boat either, but it keeps me afloat (mostly.)

Did you see it this time? That was yesterday at 3:13pm.

I'm glad you asked about my boat -- and I'm perfectly happy to discuss it with you, but I simply haven't taken any gaddam pictures of it yet.

What do you expect me to do, go out and pay $4 for a roll of film, shoot 24 pictures of my little boat, run over to the one-hour photo mart, pay $6 to have them developed, scan them in, upload them to imagestation and then post them on this forum? All of that just for some pushy jerk online who I don't even like --- and we all know that as soon as he sees the pictures he's going to deny their existence and call me a liar and demand that I prove it's my boat?

Sorry, Jamie --- you're just not worth that much effort to me. Maybe if I liked you, I'd go out of my way. Until that day, you're just going to have to be patient.

uncas
11-19-2006, 10:49 AM
okay no pictures yet.. what about a verbal.. what kind, how long, power or sail.. wood or plastic...engine type... problems to overcome, good points, bad points...designer, builder, how old? Where did you find it, why did you choose it... ?
Nothing but " it floats ". I'm glad about that...
No pictures necessary ljb5.... And if you need directions how to get out of the bilge let me know.

ljb5
11-19-2006, 10:52 AM
.. what kind, how long, power or sail.. wood or plastic...engine type...

Man, you really are having a hard time reading:


By the way, my boat is a Dagger ID 6.8.



Sadly, not a sliver of wood in the whole thing

Jamie, if you take a minute to stop arguing with me and actually read what I have written, you will see that I've already answered your questions.

uncas
11-19-2006, 10:55 AM
So I missed a line or two in your usual posts which usually are just full of BS.. The impoertant things are very easy to miss....

ljb5
11-19-2006, 10:56 AM
So I missed a line or two in your usual posts which usually are just full of BS.. The impoertant things are very easy to miss....

You spend too much time attacking me and not enough time reading.

Your problem is that you had the preconceived notion that I was going to refuse to answer your questions --- and it completely blinded you to the fact that I had already answered your questions.

uncas
11-19-2006, 10:58 AM
you say so ljb5 ..Personally it is less of attacks as attempting to put you in your place and show you that you are not God.
Have a good day....
Obviously ya dont get it....

ljb5
11-19-2006, 11:00 AM
you say so ljb5 ...Have a good day....

I always do. I'm going out in my boat in 2 hours.

Shall I say that again: I'm going out in my boat in 2 hours.


You want to have an argument about that? Shall we spend the next hour arguing about whether or not I already mentioned I'm going out in my boat today?

Maybe you want to spend half the day arguing about whether water is wet...

Since I say water is wet, you'll probably insist that it's dry. And after arguing that for an hour, you'll claim that I never said it was wet. Then I'll show you the posts and you'll say you don't see it. Then you'll call me names. Then you'll admit that I was right all along, but now you hate me for being right.

All the while, water is still wet and their ain't a gaddam thing that your arguing is going to do to change it.

Sometimes I think you just like to argue.

uncas
11-19-2006, 11:05 AM
Make a point of taking your camera.

ljb5
11-19-2006, 11:07 AM
Make a point of taking your camera.

Whatever you say, Master. :rolleyes:

Do you know what a Dagger ID is?

ljb5
11-19-2006, 11:24 AM
it is less of attacks as attempting to put you in your place and show you that you are not God.


Yeah, whatever, Jamie...

You completely failed to read what I had clearly written several times.

When you finally see your mistake, you act like it's my fault.

The thought of you putting me in my place is laughable.

Maybe if you'd ever been right about something, anything, I'd look to you for guidance. You have a demonstrated history of being wrong about everything.

You're too dumb to even read a post on this thread -- even after I pointed it out to you over and over again.

You were wrong. Just admit it and move on. Don't act like that makes you better than me.

uncas
11-19-2006, 11:55 AM
A mind is a terrible thing to waste.. too bad you have.
God, I just pity you.....

ljb5
11-19-2006, 12:28 PM
A mind is a terrible thing to waste.. too bad you have.

This form the guy who just spent 12 hours attacking me for not answering a question even though I had already answered it.

And then spent a few more hours complaining that he couldn't find the answers even though they were plainly visible on the forum....

...and now doesn't even have the stones to just admit he was mistaken.

:rolleyes:

uncas
11-19-2006, 12:30 PM
Kinda like you.... Pulling out an admittance of a mistake from you is like having the Pope change to being a Protestant.
So, you said you were gonna go work on your boat.. go... take pictures ya know, a camwera...and put them on the forum.. preferably above the bilge.... Some of us may be interested.

give it up ljb5.. even a dumb, ignorant, stupid person like me sees a deep hole starring them in the face....Can't understand why you don't!

Common sense and brains are two different things.. one you say you have... the other, well, you have no concept.... Good luck ljb5.. I hope you learn about the second because you have not yet.. and probalby never will.

Memphis Mike
11-19-2006, 12:48 PM
Jamie, if you don't like him, why do you keep argueing with him? Pretty soon you're gonna get pissed again.

After being on here for awhile I've found it pretty easy to ignore the ones I don't like. It makes for a much better attitude.

uncas
11-19-2006, 12:57 PM
Well.. the Rev. has spoken and I agree.. I'll miss the entertainment though. Think I'll go rent a movie.
Thanks Rev.. even though I'll miss busting some parts of one's anatomy...

ljb5
11-19-2006, 04:11 PM
So, you said you were gonna go work on your boat.. go... take pictures ya know, a camwera...and put them on the forum.. preferably above the bilge.... Some of us may be interested.

If you knew what a Dagger ID is, you might understand the difficulty presented in taking pictures while using it.

This is another one of those times when you decided to attack me instead of thinking for a second about what I've said.

brad9798
11-19-2006, 04:26 PM
LJB and uncas ... cut this sh*t out ... before I come after both of you.

Enough is ENOUGH ... ;)

ljb5
12-02-2006, 03:56 PM
I know some people like to insist that there were no problems in the election and that all of the electronic voting machines worked perfectly....

...but I thought some people might be interested in reality.

The controversy about the missing 18,000 votes in Florida rages on -- and has now produced a lawsuit. (http://www.nytimes.com/cq/2006/12/01/cq_2001.html)

The most populous county in Ohio is considering getting rid of their e-voting machines (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061129/ap_on_re_us/ohio_voting).

The National Institute of Science and Technology (NIST) has come out with a report critical of paperless voting and they suggest a that such systems should be made illegal and replaced with systems that produce a paper trail and can be audited.