keel/stem material?

[messar]

I am working on a Catspaw dingy. I went out looking for white oak for the keel and stem. However, I didn't have much luck finding a piece the right size (1 1/2" x 4") 12 feet long.

A couple of questions:
I found a piece of purpleheart that would work. How well does purpleheart compare to oak?
Can anyone suggest other woods that I should look at (no teak or mahogany the right size either?

Any suggestions for where to look would be appreciated. I'm located in Portland OR.

Matt

[Allen Foote]

I've done some work with purple heart...but can't tell you how it would stand up as a keel. It is denser than white oak and harder to work. It readily dulls all sharp edges...be they saw blades or counter sink bores. it has a tendancy to split...and by "tendancy", I'm being kind...predrill every hole. In some ways its akin to metal work....except for the flower like smell of the wood dust...and thats probably toxic for all I know. As for being submerged and rot ability? I don't know. Anyway, it looks great varnished, weighs a ton, splits very easily, lasts in the weather fine for transums.

[paladin]

That dimension would be easy to laminate from a coule of 1 x 6 x 12 mahogany (African or Honduras) planks........

[Thaddeus J. Van Gilder]

I have used purpleheart for nearly every one of my last 8 or 9 keels.
The biggest problem I have Is the unique purple look of varnished purpleheart.
A few years ago I showed a 17 foot sharpie that refused to take up untill Sunday at the wooden boat show in St. Michaels, Md. The bright work was all purple heart, and I recieved many a negatory comment on the non traditional collour.
Aside from that, I have no problems with the stuff. It never rots, It doesn't split like angelique or old growth doug fir (as long as you generously predrill holes), and it's available cheaply in sizes as large as you could ever want.
I would not hesitate for a second to use it for that use, as long as density isn't too much an issue. It is quite dense.

[This message has been edited by Thaddeus J. Van Gilder (edited 11-12-2001).]

[Art Read]

Not sure about getting oak in Oregon, (MUST be some the size you need down there somewhere... RGM?) But I can send you in the right direction here in Seattle if need be... Be a good excuse to visit the Center for Wooden Boats!

[messar]

Sorry, what's RGM?

Going to Seattle is an option. However, I would prefer to go only if oak is a clearly superior option....A visit to the center for wooden boats is probably in the cards anyway. Can you suggest any other seattle suppliers?

Thanks,

Matt

[RGM]

Go with the Purple Heart, you'll have no regrets. Use air dried material if you can find it, don't sweat too much if you can't. If you don't care for the color you can always paint it. Lots of it available around the Seattle area thru the usual boat lumber outfits. Try Crosscut (in Seattle 206-623-0334, or better yet Portland 503-224-9663) or Edensaw in Port Townsend. Crosscut also has a store in Eugene. I'ld go with Crosscut first, I just purchased a 12"x12"x6' Purpleheart timber from them a few minutes ago. Perhaps their Oregon stores are well stocked also (they should have White oak).I'm pretty sure that Edensaw has some sizable Purpleheart timbers in stock if anyone needs any. Good luck.

[Dave Fleming]

Anybody do businees with Bob and Erica Pickett at Flounder Bay in Anacortes these days?
Oh, RGM are the initials for a certain well respected wooden boat type person working on the Seattle/Lake Union waterfront.

Nice fella, 'cept for that big pimple on his nose!
http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/biggrin.gif

[swiftwater]

Crosscut in Portland has a good supply of white oak, and lots of mahogany - honduras, khaya and phillipine.

Hasselblad Lumber in Scappoose has Oregon Oak, both kiln dried and air dried. 1-800-695-5290.

I'm across the river. Can you share your purpleheart source? Gotta do a keel for my chrissie.

[messar]

Actually, I looked at Crosscut in Portland. All the oak is either way to thick/wide or not long enough. None of the teak is long enough. The mahogany is same as oak, way too thick/wide or not thick enough.

matt

[rob]

Bad news messar, sometimes you gotta cut a big piece of wood into a smaller one. and hope like hell you can use the "scrap" later. Remember, it all statrs out a one big log!

[Art Read]

Oh, yeah... I remember the rolled eyes I got when I tried to find a bit of timber just the size I needed for my stem. Wound up bringing home a huge "balk" that I thought I'd never be able to use up. That was many "huge balks" ago... Probably gonna need one more before I'm through... What are you going to use for the rest of the boat's framing? Mast step? Floor timbers? Skeg? Anyway, I'd think buying approximatly the right thickness and length in "too wide" a timber won't waste much if you can use the offcut later on?

(Hey, RGM... I think I saw that timber. Was it the one laying on the floor right in front of the sales counter for a while now? I remember shaking my head and wondering what poor bastard was gonna have to wrestle THAT into place. Should have known it was you! You guys should have seen the piece of Doug Fir he showed Jaime Hascall and I after the PSEBS last summer! What was it... 60' long?)

[This message has been edited by Art Read (edited 11-13-2001).]

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by Thaddeus J. Van Gilder:
The biggest problem I have Is the unique purple look of varnished purpleheart.

A few years ago I showed a 17 foot sharpie that refused to take up untill Sunday at the wooden boat show in St. Michaels, Md. The bright work was all purple heart, and I recieved many a negatory comment on the non traditional collour.

One thing with purpleheart is that the color is transitory and easily affected by UV. If you put your [unfinished] purpleheart outside in bright sun for a few days, it should turn a nice mahogany red/brown.

Lye also often has salutory effects on the color of woods with high tannin content. Just make sure you rinse it well and neutralize.

Ditto for potassium permangenate (spelling?) It's is, uh, hazardous, though. It's highly toxic and I believe it's classed as a fairly potent carcinogen. Rubber gloves and a good toxic dust mask at the very least.

Experiment first, though, to see what you get. There are lots of ways to tweak the color of wood without using dye or or stain.

[RGM]

Pretty close Art, 3"x18"x67' Old growth cvg Doug Fir. That was the piece of Purpleheart.

[This message has been edited by RGM (edited 11-13-2001).]

[rainy27]

With respect to sources in the Puget Sound area, I can recommend EDENSAW (www.edensaw.com). They are located in Port Townsend and Seattle. I have found they have good prices, knowledgable staff, and best of all great lumber (so far). I have purchased quite long pieces of white oak from them in the past. I also believe they will ship. Good luck!

[messar]

Thanks for everyone's help. I ended up getting a piece of purpleheart. That fit the bill without too much waste. I'll have enough for the keel and stem + a bit extra..

[RGM]

Well then, since now we know what you're up to and you've got some of the essential materials you're going to have to post some pictures now and then. What do ya say messar? That's a great little boat that you're going to build, lots of folks could benefit from your pictures and experiences. Good luck.

[doryguy]

Sorry to chime in late, the purpleheart would seem to a good choice. I note that the keel of the Amistad replica built at Mystic is purpleheart — one hell of a big piece of purpleheart. I think the constuuction photos are still up at the site if you're interested in the grandfather of your keel.

Regards, Cecil Nickerson

[doryguy]

Duh…

http://www.amistadamerica.org/construction/images/98-4-41.html

I meant to do this in the previous post. Really…

Cecil