Where to "Stick" it?

[Lewisboats]

Pros and Cons Please. How would a boat handle that uses an oversized Jib or Genny on a mast that is at the approximate midship location with a Yawl style mizzen of about 1/3 the size of the J or G...and no "main" sail in between. The mizzen would sheet to a boomkin and back.

Steve
(I hope I got the sail terminology right :rolleyes: )

[rbgarr]

Bill Luders used that rig for a few seasons on his racer STORM and cleaned up in the racing fleets. That may have been because it rated very low under the handicap rules and he was no slouch as a sailor, but she did very well under a normal rig also.

[John E Hardiman]

Depends a lot on the aspect ratio of the jib. Low aspect, CP moves too much and you really have to trim the mizzen. High aspect, things get better as CP doesn't move as much. Don't overpower it or a roundup will be nasty.

[Lewisboats]

I was thinking of the current small cruiser thread and a nice 17' LOA, 16 ft DWL, 7 ft beam boat is a bit spoiled by having a mast come down smack in the middle of a double berth forward. If it could be mounted just aft of the berth it wouldn't be nearly so intrusive. If bilgeboards, bilge keels or (yech...I know) Lee boards were used it would make for a nice Cruiser of modest size with very shallow draft (on the order of 12" or less) and the accomodations would be maximized for the space available, especially if the cabin is of the raised sheer type ala the Dovekey in the above mentioned thread or something like below.

Steve

http://angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks/Stuff/SpacePod1_Linesplan.JPG

[Thorne]

I'm fairly clueless on sail design, but wouldn't a mast far forward with a "mainsail" and a mast aft with a mizzen be more efficient? If not, seems like we all should be flying jibs in place of mainsails....

???

[Lewisboats]

Ah...the Cat Yawl...its been done and is viable. I was just wondering if the other might not be just as viable.

Steve

Oh...and although the above "Space Pod boat is a tad radical...I was actually thinking of something more along the lines of this...it just took a bit of time and fiddling to do up the cabin, which isn't set in stone but would be a decent representation of what might come about.



http://angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks/Stuff/SmallCruiser_Linesplan.JPG

[Lewisboats]

Here is a quicky of the proposed sail plan...with maybe a small fisherman's staysail in the middle. With the Genny, there would be overlap of the so some of the sail would actually be behind the mast, at least when sheeted in tight.

http://angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks/Stuff/SmallCruiserSailPlan.JPGsail

[Lewisboats]

Or would someone shove a small Gaff sail in the middle?

[htom]

It sounds to me like you're thinking about "mast aft" rigs, although perhaps not quite as extreme as some of them.

http://www.runningtideyachts.com/sail/

[htom]

I'll even give away a free, probably silly, idea: the "hoop rig". Replace the backstay and the forestay with a single bent beam, then throw away the mast. Attach the tops of the sails to the beam.

If you split the back of the "hoop", you might be able to do without stays at all. (The original idea was two hoops, meeting at the top, each going under the hull of a catamaran, the hoops being Reuleaux Triangles.)

[Lewisboats]

Yes...seen that...Bolger has one in his 10(something) rigs. I have heard here and there that they are quite decent...if you can keep the forestay tight enough. I thought that simply using an existing format...ie a Genoa, forgoing the Mainsail and using a mizzen in a yawl configuration I might be able to eliminate a stick in the middle of the sleeping arrangements, without having to build strong enough for a tabernacle arrangement.

Steve

[Lewisboats]

I'll even give away a free, probably silly, idea: the "hoop rig". Replace the backstay and the forestay with a single bent beam, then throw away the mast. Attach the tops of the sails to the beam.

If you split the back of the "hoop", you might be able to do without stays at all. (The original idea was two hoops, meeting at the top, each going under the hull of a catamaran, the hoops being Reuleaux Triangles.)

OOPs cross post on that one....but you lost me anyways... :confused: Could you whip up a sketch in paint or something or point to a site so I could see what you are talking about?

Steve

[htom]

MSpaint to the rescue, I hope : ...http://members.arstechnica.com/x/htom/hooprig.GIF

[htom]

Must get a light pen or a drawing tablet.

Anyway, the beam is held in its bent position by the hull, kind of like a bow and string (the hull being the string.) I suspect that there are a lot of very good reasons it wouldn't work at all. As well, it dangles the front of the hoop in the way of the wind to the sails.

Maybe a very bendy mast, aft, being tensioned by the forestay? Or a pair of very bendy masts.

In any case, the mast/hoop is used as a spring, rather than a column.