Small Boat Bronze Strap Gudgeons (Not transom mount)

[Pierre LaRochelle]

OK here's another one of my quandries:
Where does one find bronze strap gudgeons (silicon of course, that mount on a skeg 1" +/- thickness; actually need 1" to match my pintals) ?. I can readily find the standard silicon bronze wilcox/crittenden (sp) transom mount gudgeon and matching strap (rudder mount) pintal, but not a strap gudgeon for small boats, short of casting my own, or having a custon casting done. Does anyone have, or know of, an off the shelf source for this elusive casting?

Best regards,

PL

[Thorne]

Well, I found mine at a marine fleamarket at a local yacht club -- but that doesn't do you much good. Was asked the same question this weekend at Tomales Bay by one of the boatbuilders.

I suspect that mine was actually designed for use on the rudder, usually called a 'rudder gudgeon" -- with one of those 'transom pintles' or a strap pintle on the rear stem of a double-ender. I had to drill and file out the hole to remove a keyed slot, but now it works fine.

http://www.luckhardt.com/kickup-full1.jpg


For bronze, maybe try R&W Rope warehouse or the Seattle WB site for the Davey catalog?

Here are some W&C bronze ones thru /www.fisheriessupply.com -
http://www.fisheriessupply.com/online/ln_menu/product.asp/mode/1/product_id/13739/displayKey/Wilcox+Crittenden/Ntt/gudgeon/N/%2d13763/Nty/1le/R/3273e/act/A03/load/false/catalog_name/FISCO/Ntx/mode+matchpartial+rel+Inactive


Here's a few links for non=bronze ones.

http://www.rigrite.com/Hardware/Rudder_Hardware/_derived/Pintles&Gudgeons.htm_txt_Sch_81-67w.gif
http://www.rigrite.com/Hardware/Rudder_Hardware/Pintles&Gudgeons.htm#Transom%20Pintles

http://www.philsfoils.com/Chandlery/images/rwoFittings.jpg
http://www.philsfoils.com/chandlery.html

[Pierre LaRochelle]

Thanks for the hardware info. The aluminum is sooooo close, yet galvanically sooooo far. Fisheries Supply is my main source locally for such things except the Bronze fitting I need, want , must have, etc.

Still looking...but losing hope...I can still make the transom mount work or pony up and have Port Townsend Foundry cast the piece; oh where on earth does the spending end?


PL

[Thorne]

Why not just buy a heavy bronze strap pintle and drill out the pintle to make a rudder gudgeon? Silicon bronze cuts and drills nicely.

If you don't want to make one, the Davey catalog doesn't seem to have 'em but otherwise keep looking...might try UK sources?

http://www.rwrope.com/traditional_rigging/davey&co.htm , click on Deck Hardware & Exterior Fittings (http://www.rwrope.com/traditional_rigging/Catalog2004/Deck_Hardware_&_Exterior_Fittings.pdf)

[Pierre LaRochelle]

I actually considered doing the same but the 1" strap pintal does not have enough material to do that. I would be left with a paper thin wall thickness around the pintal. I think the UK may be the hot ticket. I'll give it a try.

PL

[Thorne]

Consider ordering a heavier, wider strap pintle, then filling the gap with wood shims so it fits your 1" wide skeg. Bronze is also soft enough that the bolts can compress it a bit to make the straps fit a slightly thinner piece of wood than it was designed for.

[Tom W.]

Try these guys, they make all their own stuff and probably would make some for you.
http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/prodtype.asp?prodtype=65&ph=cat

[Ken Hutchins]

Make a wood pattern of what you want, go to your local foundry.

[Pierre LaRochelle]

Bingo! Tom W.---Ouch to the currency conversion.
Ken, you may be right...to the foundry I may need to go.

Thanks for the help,

PL

[hoytheld]

why not get the aluminum ones and send them to me and I can bronze plate them:)

[Sailman58]

If you can get them in aluminum, send the aluminum ones to the foundry as patterns.

[Tristan]

I'd consider buying a second pintle large enough to fit the skeg, cutting off the "pin" and drilling out a hole to take the rudder pintle. This, of course, presuming the rudder is narrower than the skeg and will therefore take a smaller pintle.

[DougWilde]

There is not law that says both gudgeons must be on the hull. It is quite acceptable to have a gudgeon on the transom and a pintle on the skeg.
Can you find a gudgeon that fits your rudder?

Doug Wilde

[hoytheld]

If you can get them in aluminum, send the aluminum ones to the foundry as patterns.

I can get you tha address for a good foundry ran by the Amish in PA, you can't call them..but here is what you do...

send them the pattern...tell them what you want...in a couple of weeks they will send everything back with a price wrote on the parts...you send them the money!!

My buddy has been using them for years to reproduce parts for antique hit and miss engines and tractor collection...always great craftsmanship!!!! and, as far as I am concerned....very inexpensive!!

email me at
hoytheld@yahoo.com

Jason

[Pierre LaRochelle]

The dilema (as percieved by me) has to do with rudder fitting separation on a narrowing (Tombstone--Dory-esk) transom. I want maximum separation between rudder fittings to reduce stresses on the fasteners that attach the gudgeons to the transom. The dragon in the detail here is minimal transom area near the apex (pointy end of transom) which forces me to consider a strap gudgeon on the skeg in order to accomplish the maximum separation that I want.

The matter of bronze is not only an aesthetic one, as the function of bronze in a marine environment is necessary for longevity. Aluminum on a wood boat doesn't make sense to me for a number of reasons. To name a few (I'm not talking about the ultra high tech featherweight craft dedicated to racing) I would say that Bronze or stainless is the material of choice for wood boats. Aluminum, stainless, and bronze are the materials of choice for fiberglass boats. Aluminum and Stainless works for aluminum and steel boats...I could go on with more in depth rationale...but I wont since no single material can satisfy all conditions.

PL

[Thorne]

I still think you could go with a heavy strap pintle and drill out the hole, shimming the straps to fit the skeg if necessary. Did the Fisheries supply site not have the W&C bronze fittings?

Here are some W&C bronze ones thru /www.fisheriessupply.com -
http://www.fisheriessupply.com/onlin...l+rel+Inactive (http://www.fisheriessupply.com/online/ln_menu/product.asp/mode/1/product_id/13739/displayKey/Wilcox+Crittenden/Ntt/gudgeon/N/%2d13763/Nty/1le/R/3273e/act/A03/load/false/catalog_name/FISCO/Ntx/mode+matchpartial+rel+Inactive)

I agree with the bronze decision, but hate to see you spend lotsa $$ on a custom casting.

[Steve Lansdowne]

I found one when corresponding with "WS" at ducktrap@midcoast.com, though this one had a 3/4" space between the straps. You might try him.

[Pierre LaRochelle]

as a response to Thorne I purchased two pairs of the stock W/C 1" transom mount gudgeons and pintals at Seattle Fisheries Supply (I get a substantial Sam Devlin discount there since purchasing plans from Devlin Designing Boatbuilders) before I had second thougths on spacing. I could modify the lower gudgeon by shortening the flanges and leave only two screw holes instead of four. Then I suppose I could use oversized bronze screws of through bolt with bronze carriage bolts....hmmmmmmmm still thinkn'

PL

[Pierre LaRochelle]

OK! Ducktrap has this issue addressed...thought I was going crazy...why is it such a problem to find variations on bronze rudder fittings?

I think this myth is busted!

PL