PDA

View Full Version : mmmm wot next? epoxy and glass or...



Wild Dingo
12-27-2003, 02:12 AM
just prime paint and turn for the interior?

I know Michael said to cover her bum with glass and poxy... An normally I would jump to without hessitation at what he says and just do it cause it would be dead on the money :cool: ... but ITS SUMMER!!! and Im wanting to go do some water stuff ;)

So Ive managed to stuff as much of that black googe called sikaflex 219 into every open oriface and crack and cranny on the hull surface... and sanded it back till its reasonably smooth used some more to fill any gaps that arrived with my over zealous sanding and taking back the humps with me trusty knife...

What now? should I get some 4in wide bias glass and epoxy the hell out of all edges? or... should I prime paint turn and start the internals? yes I gotta make some side seats so I got somewhere to park me bum in this wee lady! tongue.gif

I guess the glass and poxy will make sure its water tight eh?.. mmmmm but then I can do that during winter if she survives summer that is :rolleyes:

Advice from all sage ones welcomed with thanks :cool:

edited to add... I used sikaflex as a sort of gap filler cause I didnt know no bedda! couldnt get the damned destructshuns to download that reddog posted the link to bloody mongrel sikaflex~!!... ah now now its done... probably shoulda used somethin a bit cheeper but figured this stuff should work a treat... maybe?? ah well there yer go done now :rolleyes:

[ 12-27-2003, 02:18 AM: Message edited by: Wild Dingo ]

Wild Wassa
12-27-2003, 03:29 AM
Dingo, it isn't difficult, sheathing with class cloth. Maybe it's best to do it now. It isn't a slow process. There are only a few stages in the process.

Position the glass, secure gently if needed, the symetry keeps the cloth in place generally, mix the epoxy and pour it on, at the keel. With a blade, spread the epoxy gently, so that air between the interfaces is worked to the edges. A few hours later, or sooner recoat with epoxy still using the blade/squeegie. The biggest problem is keeping the epoxy fresh. Try to work quickly. Once the epoxy starts going off, there can be a tendancy to warp or stretch the cloth, causing ripples or damaging the weave.

If you can have a navvy mixing the epoxy as you go, 90% of the difficulty vanishes.

Warren.

[ 12-27-2003, 03:39 AM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

Wild Dingo
12-27-2003, 03:36 AM
HA!! Was hopin you would respond mate... check your email Ive just sent one to you that should clarify what Im thinking just now :cool:

Im not worried about doin the fibreglass thing just dont want to waste more time than necessary on her right now... member? its bloody summer mate got crabs prawns and fish to catch!!! :D

Meerkat
12-27-2003, 03:37 AM
If you've never done epoxy before, Do NOT mix it in tall narrow containers - it will kick off with lots of smoke and heat and melting of plastic containers very quickly (voice of experience speaking ;) ). Exciting and expensive, but not all that much fun. Shallow containers - and keep the mixings in the fridge until you use them to get a longer pot life.

Wild Dingo
12-27-2003, 03:40 AM
Okay its lookin like epoxy comin up... sigh :rolleyes:

Okay so what sorta containers do I need? tins from old baked beans cans? plastic yoghurt containers? what makes a good container?

Damn! here I was hopin to avoid this part till winter... bloody stinkin hot around here today and will be for some time... buggah! :(

Jack Heinlen
12-27-2003, 04:02 AM
Good gawd epoxy, glass, ply is a lousy way to make a boat. I mean it's miserable work.

Don't you have any real wood down under? Build it out of that, whatever that is, before you go after ply and epoxy.

Wild Dingo
12-27-2003, 04:37 AM
Aye Jack twould if I wearnt given a freebie boat to muck about with... thats got me attention just now...

Here she be as I got her...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3cf22b3127cce81365a5d97c50000001610

Thats no outboard thats me Yuloh operator! Just he dont know it yet! :D

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3cf22b3127cce8137f05cb7dd0000001610

with her new ubeaut GT stripes...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3cc01b3127cce843141444b060000001610

And as she is now with more googe in every oriface Im workin on on her bum the rest will be done when its painted and turned over so I can get at her without to much of the ol bending and such...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3cc06b3127cce8497e8ab00980000001610

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3cc06b3127cce8497eb8c40260000001610

This was about the biggest problem Ive encountered... the seam had come apart and the googe that was in it had become brittle so I removed the lot and force fed the resulting gap with SF 291

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3cc06b3127cce8497e86300500000001610

All up the ply and the timbers just needed some sanding and cleaning up... changed a few nails and then do the SF thing sooo... do I do the poxy and glass thing for summer?? or dont I??

AND!!.. I just gotta member to go get some bungs!!! :rolleyes:

Wild Wassa
12-27-2003, 04:50 AM
Now I see Dingo. The process doesn't change, only the width of the cloth. Fill the voids early, the cloth must lie on a good surface.

When using the glass tape on the chines, over the keel strip especially, and around the transom, there can be a tendency for the cloth to lift, giving voids, by not wanting to hug the contours, due to the sharpness of the angles and the flexibility of the cloth. With glass over the keel strip, I would lay the masking tape, tight into the corner, where it joins the hull. That's the only drama, I see Dingo.

I use 3M's blue tape, but masking tape is just as good, after epoxying, to keep the glass cloth tight. As the epoxy starts to go off, lay masking tape parallel to the chines, and covering both edges of the glass cloth. When the epoxy starts to set, with a block of wood, rub over the top of the masking tape just to aid the fairing. Don't rub too hard. This will save a lot of fairing later Dingo, you will be fairing as you go. Don't put the masking tape onto the epoxy and cloth, too soon. Just wait for it to start going off, this reduces the chance of the masking tape leaving glue residues on your surface. In about four or five hours, peel the tape off by keeping the tape as low to the surface as possible when you pull it off, do not pull the tape off vertically. Any tape residues can be removed the following day with a white acrylic eraser. I don't like using xylene for this, although xylene works well.

If you notice bubbles/voids forming below the cloth, cut with an X, peel back, fill with epoxy, close the envelope, another swipe with epoxy, them masking tape again. That will fix them. Fix the bubbles early if you get them, while the glass cloth is still a bit flexible.

I use epoxy as my primer. I expect to put 1/2 dozen coats of paint on anyway. Epoxy is a great primer. I build my tooth, or grip, with a scratch.

What paint will you use, enamel, an acrylic or a poly?

Warren.

[ 12-27-2003, 05:29 AM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

Wild Dingo
12-27-2003, 05:18 AM
Okay... no escapin the epoxy thing I see no worries!

Thanks Wassa... so when I get to that keel thing how do I go about gettin the cloth to lay as it should? make a big whachamakallit fillet thing to round it up? I guess thats what Michael was referring to when he said to round them corners over right?

Now the tape thing... just to clarify... epoxy first then when it goes off lay the cloth on it epoxy again wait till it starts to go off then lay the tape along the edge of the cloth right?

will 4in cloth be wide enough you reckon? any ideas of amounts needed? the boat is 12ft 11in stem to transom if I get say 8-10mtrs to do both chines and same again for either side of the keel and stem then another 4 or 5mtrs for the transom along with another 16mtrs for each side of each spray guard thing... so whats that about 40odd mtrs of bias cloth? or am I over estimating? what amount of poxy? couple of litres? and appropriate amount of hardener

Yes I will admit Im tappin your experience mate!! :D :cool:

Wild Wassa
12-27-2003, 05:50 AM
I see you have a big fire over your way, out of control too and Scandia has hit a sun fish. I hope she hits another one, I backed Zana. The sunfish stopped Scandia to zero knots. Go Zana, Zana is 2 nautical miles back. Best Scandia hits another one.

If the performance of the boat isn't reduced by rounding edges, :rolleyes: , the cloth will sit better.

I like to lay the cloth on the boat dry, then wet it out, others prefer to wetout the hull then lay the cloth then, then rewet. Wet it out with a squeegie, the change in colour will describe the wet out well. When the cloth disappears totally that's a win.

With the keel strip, tape up both sides, then crown it with a third strip, or crown it then tape up the sides. Butt joined or overlapped on this one, or one wider strip 20-30cm or even wider, and trimmed to sit well. Do you want me to post you the formula for calculating paint requirements on a boat?, otherwise use 1lt per 10sq m of coverage per coat.

4" fine. It is probably cheaper to buy a 50m roll, than 40m. Maybe 5lts of resin and 2 1/2lts of hardener, for the inside and out.

Warren.

[ 12-27-2003, 06:41 AM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

reddog
12-27-2003, 06:32 AM
Dingo;
Oh and hi Warren.Shane,if you decide to go with the glass and epoxy be sure to mix your stuff in a wide shallow container.Pie tins work fine.The epoxy generates heat as it goes off and in a small container you could end up with a bubbling,frothing mess.The larger shallow containers allow the heat to dissapate which will also give a slightly longer pot life= more working time with the stuff.
I guess I should try those sites before I recommend them.I couldn't get those pdf. files on the Sika site to load either.
Sounds like you all are into summer and fire season again.Hope it goes better than last year for ya.We're right on 0 C right now,which is balmy for this time of year,and no snow.Christmas day was plus 10 with 50mm of rain.
Take care;
Earl

Wild Wassa
12-27-2003, 06:42 AM
I read a few of your posts today reddog, cheers to you too, Brother.

I've started stripping a British Moth. All the glass tape is set in varnish, truely, and the glues are urea of formaldahyde, ... it makes epoxy seem nice.

[ 12-27-2003, 06:53 AM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

Wild Dingo
12-27-2003, 06:44 AM
Fire in the hills well south of Perth... watchin it just now.. Tenterton nice forestry town where the mill got closed back in the 70s but the town refuses to die... great spot! quiet friendly country town :cool: theyve evacuated it and the towns nearby :( so its gonna be a ripper bloody bush is as dry as a nuns tit this year and will go up as fast as hell... talking with a mate whos a calm offnicer and firey up in Dwellingup just a few minutes ago "right from the Stirlings just east of Perth down the whole way is tinder dry and the bloody wheatbelts drier still ready and ripe to burn once it gets away from them the whole lower part of the state will go like a torch it gets away from them down there and you can say goodbye to most of the towns along its route" so prayin those fellas hold it together down there... The Dwellingup Mandurah Pinjarra crews are heading down within the hour.

Now re the race: The flamin mongrel gits that do the flamin mongrel programming on the ruddy idiot box have given me a whole... 5 flamin minutes of the race!!! and that was before the bloody start!! NOTHING repeat BLOODY NOTHING SINCE! mongrel dip****es! :mad: I know I say it the same every year with the race but damned if I intend on gettin bloody foxyell for one race per year! :rolleyes: :mad: ****es me badly it do! Id dearly like to get the damned programmers and string em up by their gronicles to the clothes line and whizz em around for hours on end with re runs of flamin mongrel cricket in their faces and ears!!! :mad:

Now back to the matter at hand... wastage of 60%???? cripes!!!!!!! bloody hope not! thats bloody expensive ****e and I still gots me a trailer to buy... okay saw you edited that bit out shy buggah!! HA!!

Gidday there Earl :cool: how goes it mate?... alright I see cold as the inside of a freezer eh? same same right you blokes love that cold stuff... and they reckon Englishmen are mad for goin out in the midday sun... yeah right they dont know about you mad buggars up there in the frozen wastes eh?!!! :D pie dishes? alrighty!! love me pies gives me an excuse to go get some more!! yeeeeeesss!!!... thats the ones made of tinfoil right? damn this postin then waitin caper!!!

[ 12-27-2003, 06:51 AM: Message edited by: Wild Dingo ]

Wild Wassa
12-27-2003, 06:59 AM
Try the Cruising Yacht Club of Australia's site, they have a race tracker, or go to http://rolexsydneyhobart.com (http://rolexsydneyhobart.com/).

Then click on Yacht Tracker, in the menu bar. It's not as good as Virtual Spectator, but it's free and minute by minute. Don't forget to use the zoom in. At 1.00pm today, exactly 24hrs into the race they were 160nm behind Grundig's 1999 record, :eek: .

Next year I'm going to enter an 18ft skiff, in the race, to beat these plods, :rolleyes: . We could put in at Bermagui Harbour for the night, sleep for 12hrs and still win.

[ 12-27-2003, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

Wild Dingo
12-27-2003, 07:36 AM
I reckon we'd be mad enough to just up and rip it outta their mits!!! Im in!! I reckon ol doorstop will be in and TonyH would be a definant Mike Feild in like flynn and then theres Bernadette!! we need someone out on the boom takin pics of the action! :D need more I reckon Skuthorp he'd jump at the chance as for young Peter Sibley and Phil Young try keepin them outta the thing I reckon we gots our crew mate! :cool: I reckon one of them old day racing skiffs would be the go so we need a few more bods... 18ft skiff mmmm we will need something to go on the 40ft boom and another seriously BIG sail for the genoa out the front... and yeeeeeeeeeeeeflaminhaaaaaaaa! :D HANG ON!!!! :eek:

aahhh tish tosh mate Kiwis you know what them fellas is like :rolleyes: ... strewth throw em a beer and they'll sit an yarn for hours throw a keg and mate NOTHIN happens for days!! :D I reckon the other crews got together and offered them fellas a nice keg each and enough meat for a great hungi and they tossed the towel HA!!! tongue.gif

Im gonna be busy for a tic watchin the race!! thanks for the link mate! :cool:

[ 12-27-2003, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: Wild Dingo ]

On Vacation
12-27-2003, 08:00 AM
Shallow containers - and keep the mixings in the fridge until you use them to get a longer pot life.

STOP!!!!!!I ain't had time to read all, but this is bad information!!!!!!!!!!Be back!

reddog
12-27-2003, 08:11 AM
Might I be so bold as to ask which race?Any particulars?
Earl

Wild Dingo
12-27-2003, 09:01 AM
Sydney to Hobart Aussie institution starts boxing day bloody ripper of an ocean race through the Tasman Strait... may remember a few years back a lot of boats got into the ****e and a number of crew lost their lives... storm weather ill prepared organizers have since been made to pull their heads out of their bums along with the owners
Damn fine racing! :cool:

Wheres the problem Mike???

[ 12-27-2003, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Wild Dingo ]

Beowolf
12-27-2003, 09:07 AM
Hey Ding

I use old Cool Whip containers. They are large ans wide, so you can make a real shallow layer. They have a real simple shape so it's easy to make sure that everythings getting mixed and at the end of the day, I simply let the dish sit overnight. The next morning I grab the dish with two hands, give it a few good flexes and the hardened epoxy usually pops right out. Presto! You've got a clean mixing dish, ready for use again.

Talk to you later.

Jeff

Wild Dingo
12-27-2003, 09:12 AM
cool whip?? wassat? ice cream? mashed spud? honestly havent a clue whats the container like measurements wise??

Aramas
12-27-2003, 09:49 AM
Hey Dingo - last big job I did I used those plastic party cups to measure it (when you have 100 plus pumps it's really slow and easy to lose count).

The best thing I found to mix it in was those standard ten litre white buckets with the lid (cream comes in them among other things). Just cut around the side about 10 cm from the bottom and you've got yourself a good reusable mixing tub - the cured epoxy just breaks away clean when you flex it. I found I needed 3 so I could keep working after each batch ran out.

The hardest part is mixing - especially if you load it up with cabosil - make sure you have a big box of disposable gloves and a strong short handled plastic scraper to mix with. If you use any filler in it make sure your wear a respirator and goggles - that stuff is nasty if it gets in your lungs or eyes.

Oh yeah almost forgot. You'll need a thingie for getting bubbles out of the glass mat - I think they're called 'consolidators' or somesuch. You can make one from threaded rod about 10cm long drilled in the centre on each end and a bit of fencing wire stuck in each hole and bent to make a handle. Hind of like a barbie and ken sized lawn roller.

[ 12-27-2003, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: Aramas ]

Wild Dingo
12-27-2003, 10:01 AM
aaaahhhh ****e I can see this is fast turnin into something I really am not goin to look forward to isnt it? :rolleyes: Im not plannin on fiberglass the entire thing here mates just a few strips around the chines keel transom and spray rails... its only 12ft 11in from stem to stern... sigh tis a right worry the way yous fellas is goin on :(

damn! buggar it the more this goes on the more I think I'll just flamin paint the bastard and chuck her in the drink and see what happens! Dont mean no offence with that fellas thanks for the help seriously... just well I mean strewth

[ 12-27-2003, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: Wild Dingo ]

On Vacation
12-27-2003, 10:04 AM
Refrigerate after mixing:
The resin is already at the temperature of pre existing temp. The mass will not cool enough to do any good. Also the top of the resin will end up with a damp film of moisture, because of the difference in room temperature, Think ahead of time. Lets start at square one. You can chill the resin down by keeping it in a closet or at least in a cooler of ice the night before. But this also changes the viscosity of it. Lets address this matter. You can mix a very small amount of denatured Alcohol to thin it upon the start up of the job.

First you need to find the slowest hardener that is avaliable in your area. Patience is the key to glassing and not wasting huge funds on supplies, and labor on redoes. I know it is summer time down where you are, so you must also cool down the surface temperature of your project. Get it out of the open sunlight, and open sun, period, whether it be winter or summer. Do your glassing at night time or real early morning as I know you are a night owl.

Next round over any corners with either a sander or rough grit paper on a small board. If you are going to glass, you can fill your holes and voids with thickened epoxy resin mixed with cabosil or even sanding dust, from a fine sanding disc on a belt sander or grinder.

Depending on the types of resin and the dispensers, if you are pumping the resin, then pump the hardner first into the container. If you are mixing by bulk means, or by measure, your container needs to be uniform in configuation, and not the tapered out kinds such asthe coolwhip cups. Your amount is less in proportion at the bottom than at the top. Some resins makes a difference bittime, in improper ratios. There are tapered cups that are premeasureed on the sides to compensate for the difference. A shallow dish to mix is not good and will come back to bite you if you are not very careful.

When mixing, make sure when you stir, to pull off the incomplete mix off the stick and allow for it to run down into the bulk mix. I also will mark the sticks like a paint paddle type, with a permant marker or pencil, in increment consistant to the mixing ratio. This will help in working by yourself. Pumps are a paint in the rear in large projects.

If you are doing this by yourself, in bulk projects, mix in small mixes. The best way I have found to do this, is to find some types of clear cups, around one quart size, two of them and pour each part in seperate cups. Measure and mark incremements on the side, to allow for you to know how much your are pouring, keeping in mind that the resin will pour slowly, so be careful not to overpour and the hardener will pour fast.

Then use a roller short nap to wet out the surface, solvent resistant typeto apply it. You can squeeze out the cloth at that time, using a sheetrock or concrete trowell or yellow squeeze types for body work.

Don'tr get your panties in a wad mate, Ain't nothing too it. Its just your first time. Don't paint now if you want to glass later. The hull is as dry as it will ever be, now, with the age of it. Make sure you get it completely wetted out and saturated especially on the chines and eadge grains.

[ 12-27-2003, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

mmd
12-27-2003, 12:05 PM
Dingo, yer gettin' a good education here. Most folk have to pay for this kinda stuff. Oyster snuck a little gem of information in there pretty quietly, so I'll shout it out so's ya don't miss it:

Do your 'glassing early in the morning.

When I ran a 'glass yard in the tropics, we would pre-cut & layout our 'glass one day, and after we had everything laid out and organized, I'd send everyone home an hour early so's we could start an hour earlier (6:00 a.m.) the next day with the layup process. It was cooler then and we had nocibly less problems than when we 'glassed mid-day.

When we were doing "fussy bits" that took a long time to wet out, we would place the tubs of resin in a fishbox filled with ice. It would keep the resin cool without the condensation problems that Oyster mentioned.

Meerkat
12-27-2003, 12:20 PM
Who said any damn thing about storing mixed epoxy in the refridgerator - I said KEEP THE MIXINGS IN THE REFRIDGERATOR - you know, the resin and catalyst, seperately!

It's not bad information, it's bad reading

Frank E. Price
12-27-2003, 06:56 PM
Guess you kids don't recall that people used to routinely build plywood boats without epoxy OR fiberglass -- dressed in nothing but paint (the boat). One thing about building boats NOT intended to be immortal is that eventually you get the best excuse of all to build another boat. I've built two or three ply skiffs sheathed in epoxy and I won't do it again. It's expensive, nasty, and the boat still isn't immortal.

Frank

On Vacation
12-27-2003, 08:49 PM
Frank, this kid has too, done the same thing. But many times without a lot of rework on older boats, glass and epoxy, done right, will help the small plywood boat live longer. This is not saying that we are hiding a lot of problems, at least not in my case. But a person can cut and fix inperfections and flaws with patches and cover and the boat is as good as new. Many times without epoxy and glass, a nice finish is unobtainable, which to some of us is an important factor. Yes a person may be able to paint a nice coat of finish on the boat, but it never holds up as long either.

To add one more thing in the mix, many boats of today designs, call for glass as part of the structure, in lieu of much larger or thicker components.

[ 12-27-2003, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

Jon Etheredge
12-27-2003, 09:29 PM
If you are planning to use WEST System epoxy, you might want to look for the "209 Special Tropical Hardener". It is stated to have a pot life of 15-20 minutes at 95 degrees F (35 C). I have used it for glassing with good success here in Texas on days when the high temps were in the 90's. The 209 hardener is also more tolerant of high humidity than other WEST System hardeners.

Be sure you get the right pumps for the 209 hardener. It requires 3:1 mix ratio instead of the 5:1 that is used for most of their other hardeners.

Wild Wassa
12-27-2003, 10:14 PM
Dingo, go back to the 'helpful navvy system' it will pay big divvies with the epoxy in your heat. It is all tropical in Oz, infact it's 7/8ths desert.

I've not seen West Systems epoxy in Oz, mostly Norglass, BCP and International. When the temp is up around 40C there 'aint much you can do, except for mmd's, "choose the coolest part of the day," then it would be 36C. I wonder if the others really understand our dry heat, Dingo. Greg H described it well, after he visited, "scary dry."

In fact it is so dry here where I live, and the water restrictions so tough, I had to apply for permission to wet sand my boat, because it looks like washing a boat. The fines are measured in the thousands of $ here in the ACT.

BCP's epoxy resin (my standard) doesn't like the cold. It will clump, and is harder to mix. The hardener doesn't link well, because you can't mix it well. The resin kind of curdles.

Warren.

[ 12-28-2003, 01:04 AM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

Aramas
12-28-2003, 01:05 AM
I've used a fair bit of Bote Cote epoxy in 30-35 degrees C (in a tin shed at that)with no problems. I was getting a pot life of a couple of hours in a big shallow tub.

When you buy scrapers there are 2 types in the hardware stores here in the east. One is white and has a kind of matt finish - they're bloody useless. They're too stiff and brittle, so they break before the epoxy breaks away, and the epoxy sticks to it like chocolate on an electric blanket. The ones you want are bright yellow/orange and shiny.

Wild Wassa
12-28-2003, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by Aramas:
"I've used a fair bit of Bote Cote epoxy in 30-35 degrees C (in a tin shed at that)with no problems. I was getting a pot life of a couple of hours in a big shallow tub."

You might have had a bit of humidity working for you. I get about 40 minutes max.

Which BCP hardener did you use? Non-yellowing?

Warren.

[ 12-28-2003, 01:14 AM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

Wild Dingo
12-28-2003, 04:27 AM
I want to say one thing to start... THANK YOU FELLAS!!... as Michael said some brilliant info here and its the reason I came into the woodenboat site in the first place. :cool:

OysterMike thanks mate! the detailed info is brilliant.

Wassa thanks also.

Now to clarify... I am not planing on fibreglassing the entire hull just the chines spray rails and keel areas the rest I intend to just paint...

the reason is such... this boat is a) old b) been underwater and dryin out under a tree for many years c) has only a short life expectancy d) will be a great learning curve for myself and Aaron

So I'm goin to use this as an introduction to the mongrel stuff and so intend to go small and work up if I choose to go the fibreglass epoxy route... as someone else said its bloody expensive and down my way its double what you blokes up there pay... in real dollar terms that is... yes it does a great job of letting the boat last longer but as this is a learning curve I feel I should go through even if I never use the goop again so least I will know the right way of doing it.

So thank you for all the great info particularily you OysterMike and Warren flamin brilliant! :cool: Okay have copied and will save this thread till its ended then print it of.

The info contained is very much what I was looking for and if I sounded a bit unappreciative it wasnt intended I was I suppose a bit peeved that the concensus was to epoxy the whole sheemozzle... bein an Aussie through and through Im a tad on the basically... eerrrr.... ummmm... shall we say... mmmmm... lazy side? :eek: HA!!! :D tongue.gif Its the Aussie way what can I say? :rolleyes: she'll be right no worries and so on... ah well lifes never as easy as you expect... but... with this info above it will be a tad easier than if it wasnt available to me!

Anyway thanks again fellas much appreciated! :cool:

Aramas
12-28-2003, 04:48 AM
You might have had a bit of humidity working for you. I get about 40 minutes max.
yeah - Newcastle in january - hot and humid. At least it was all in the shade though, and the tin roof was about 8 m high and open on 2 sides with a breeze off the sea.


Which BCP hardener did you use? Non-yellowing? Ahhh...umm....Actually I didn't read past the bit that said 2:1 tongue.gif

I can confirm that it gets really hot and goes off fast in those tube gun thingies smile.gif

Oh, and if you're filling or filleting and using cabosil, a bit of microspheres (q-cell?) makes it nice and shiny and slippery - much easier to work with and prettier too. About 80/20 seems about right (a tip from the boatbuilder that supplied the epoxy).

On Vacation
12-28-2003, 08:21 AM
Wild Wassa
.
Member # 4490

posted 12-27-2003 10:14 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dingo, go back to the 'helpful navvy system' it will pay big divvies with the epoxy in your heat. It is all tropical in Oz, infact it's 7/8ths desert.

I've not seen West Systems epoxy in Oz, mostly Norglass, BCP and International. When the temp is up around 40C there 'aint much you can do, except for mmd's, "choose the coolest part of the day," then it would be 36C. I wonder if the others really understand our dry heat, Dingo. Greg H described it well, after he visited, "scary dry."


I have never been to Australia. I do understand glassing by oneself,, with 1 to 1 resin, 2 to 1 resin, 3 to 1 resin 4 to 1 resin, and 5 to 1 resin, and the properties associated with each, in climates of 95 plus degress in the shade, rain one minute, sun come out the next, temperatures changing 40 degrees with cold fronts, hanging and holding glass upside down on the bottom of a fifty foot boat, while dipping roller in one hand into a paint tray wetting it out and applying it over a dirt surface. If it falls off or the resin kicks off while half wet out, it is money out of my pocket, period.

Wild Dingo
12-28-2003, 10:36 AM
Okay so look mates I asked a question and the answers have come... bloody good ones too I will add... just what I was looking for... so why is anyone showing the agro for? Doesnt make sence :rolleyes:

Lets take this another way... remember there are people who lurk and read the posts... someone may well have an old boat like mine but want to do the whole shamozzle in fibreglass and poxy they now have everything they need to do a great first class job... from experts from both sides of the world... just as I have... perhaps they want to do the whole thing or just the chines and keel as I do either way theyve just gotten the whole 9 yards from people who know what theyre talking about! Bloody brilliant!! :cool:

Its all valuable and worthy!!! And I personally thank all of you for discussing it and giving your views and methods. :cool: ...I know I could have just gone and got the goop and just done it... probably stuffed it royally in the doing since Ive never done it before... so I thought to ask get the correct methods and I have so now I know exactly what to do for either a full job or just the minimalist job either way I now know... and so do those others that dont post.

Theres no need for anyone to get antsy smartassed or upset about anything :rolleyes: Its all good info!!! And that is what we all come here for.

Thanks again fellas! :cool:

Wild Dingo
12-28-2003, 10:46 AM
ooooh here yer go Mike... her innards ;)

Forard ho!!

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3cf22b3127cce8137f11d76340000001610

To the aft yer swab!

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3cf22b3127cce81370cc5360a0000001610

She has old varnish over the internals that is peelin off but the timbers still appear solid but I havent started in there so I havent done any major checking just what can be seen from underneath... note here she was only upright long enough to have a quick gander take the snaps and toss her upside down again :D

Re: the outboard... see my thread on the Yuloh... but I will probably end up getting a wee up to 10hp outboard just for putting around.

Oh I spoke with Bernie this arvo when he visited and apparently she never was glassed just varnished inside and painted outside with nails and some sort of filler stuff jammed between the ply butts... his father or father in law {I cant at this moment remember which} Ron ...anyway had scraped and sanded all the paint of the outside before he gave it to Bernie and he didnt touch it just tossed it under a tree in his back yard :rolleyes:

Oh and she was build back in 1960 or 61 by some old fella who built a new one every 5 or so years to go fishin in the estuary in... apparently he would built it use it abuse it then when she got to the stage that she was leaking like the proverbial sieve and no more goop would fit between the plys he would simply salvage whatever was salvagable from her then just build anothery... net fishin for mullet and whiting mostly and crabbing and prawning of course :cool:

Anyway the story of how she came about being given to Ron then Bernie then me... was that Ron was passing by this old fellas place near the river and spotted this stack of busted broken and crappy old discarded boats near the shed decided to stop and have a yarn ended up great mates and was given several of these old girls to do up sadly Ron never got the time to get to them life and all that and the others were so badly gone that Ron ended up burning them... the old fella went to the happy fishin grounds about 7 or 8 years ago so Bernie and Ron reckon this girl is the last he built as she was given to Ron by the fellas missus after he died.

Well thats what Bernie tells me anyways

[ 12-28-2003, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Wild Dingo ]

Tar Devil
12-28-2003, 11:11 AM
Shane, that boat looks pretty darn good for a 40 year old boat... that's never seen epoxy!

This is just a question here... if you go the epoxy route, haven't I read that you're supposed to encapsulate the whole worm - inside and out - else you run the risk of water seeping between the glass and ply and accelerating dry rot?

Pretty little boat, Shane. Can't wait for the water photos.

Later,

Phil

On Vacation
12-28-2003, 12:06 PM
Extremes can be difined in many ways. Learning how to adjust to the common denominator of the working properties goes a long ways to doing the job. right, the first time. Offering up the alternative of polyester, Mike, in his enviroment, or to someone that has never been exposed to a project such as a rebuild or can and will make for a bigger mess sometimes. My words and opinions are only one opinion, offered up here by what I have found in doing two boats for myself, of jobs with glass. Thats all and take it for what you paid for it, nothing.

Two chooses for anyone that reads it, and that includes some that have done a small job, a big job, a rebuild job, some that a year ago asked some opinions pertaining to small projects at hand, and some with no jobs in this category, taek it or leave it. But try to leave here some information that is constructive, instead of jibberish. Nuff said.

Wild Dingo
12-28-2003, 12:14 PM
aahhh see now were talking! :cool:

Ive begun the shelter which will be sheoak with a canopy... slatted seats Tuart and Jarrah and statted Jarrah floor... am taking the poxy looking ply of the deck and replacing it with sheoak and ply strips and putting a bulkhead in at the end of the forard deck with an anchor storage thingy inside and some storage from the cockpit

sorta along this lines... but with a canopy and different colors of course

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid29/p6325205d06d27f84e3ab3257915766ea/fd5a0b5b.jpg

somehow doubt she will ever look as purty as that one... more along this style...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid29/p62fed4bb68d445c00ced26a930e96d57/fd5a0c35.jpg

Since Im plannin on using her for fishin and netting and such nonsence its doubtful if she will ever sparkle like the first one :rolleyes: ...but thats the general idea thats bouncing around me noggin... however this is a learning baby for me to fiddle and phart around with if something works I'll make note of it and try to incorporate it in the next one... if something doesnt work... well it doesnt!!

note here fellas... Some reckon that the ol phart in the last one is a forumite :eek: ... but hey we wont let on eh Skuthorp! we knows bedda dont we mate? :D tongue.gif

warthog5
12-28-2003, 12:43 PM
This is a strange looking boat, with those slatted seats. I asume it's for touring people around.
Got any closer pix's? Do they open up for storage?
I don't see the point of the slats.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid29/p6325205d06d27f84e3ab3257915766ea/fd5a0b5b.jpg

Wild Dingo
12-28-2003, 12:46 PM
Actually mate you will have to ask the legendary Skuthorp that one... he got into a wee habit awhile back of sending me photos of boats that were for sale over east and that was one of them gave me no other info though... I kept it at imagestation simply because it attracted me with its colors and the slatted seats... the other is his goodself although he will say its not shy old phart he be! :D

Aramas
12-28-2003, 04:18 PM
I don't see the point of the slats Well after a year here in the tropics, my guess is that they're to ventilate one's buttocks smile.gif

They would be a bit awkward if you can't get access though - fish guts do tend to get rather ripe in the sun.

Tar Devil
12-28-2003, 04:51 PM
Shane, I'm least experienced so you should measure what I say accordingly...

Often in the B/R of this forum contributors have testified how the quality of ply has deteriorated over the years. In rebuilding my dad's old f****glass boat-which had wood scattered sparsely throughout it's construction-I wish I had not removed the ply from the seats. No delamination, no rot... good enough for another 30 years. Heck, that ply hadn't even had a coat of paint in 20 years and never been near anything resembling epoxy. Sat out in the sun the whole time, uncovered.

That boat of yours looks pretty good. Might look good longer with a layer of epoxy, who knows. But me thinks with the excellent quality of wood it was built with, it would look fine years from now if you keep it well, epoxy or not.

One little sidebar (forgive me Memphis Mike, but I gotta add this)...

The only wood on my dad's boat that was rotten (and boy! was it rotten) was the wood buried in polyester fiberglass in the gunwales and transom. The wood I dug from the transom (what tiny bit wasn't mush) made no pretense whatsoever of sticking to the polyester glass. From my personal experience, I would never consider using the stuff to encapsulate a boat. It's brittle and doesn't adhere to wood very well. It might work OK for a while, but I kinda feel like polyester encapsulation condemns your boat to a finite life.

Still buddies, MM?

Later,

Phil

Stiletto
12-28-2003, 05:27 PM
Given that the boat has lasted for years without epoxy , I would be inclined to just tape & glass the seams/chines. I find that this is where boats tend to get knocked around most and start leaking from. I have had some success with adding glue powder to my epoxy and applying it to the boat and then placing the tape on it. The extra stiffness makes the process more manageable . I then work the remains into the weave once I am happy with the lay of the tape. It works for me. She's a workboat right?
Good luck whichever way you go.
I think the slats in that other boat make for a drier bum.

Wild Wassa
12-28-2003, 05:46 PM
Dingo, in reference to Oyster's recommendation for using denatured alcohol, to thin the epoxy and slow the kick. It is sold as denatured ethanol around here. Readily available at any hardware store. Make sure it doesn't have Marine writen on the price tag.

A special note: Do not use a denatured alcohol with BoatCraft Pacific's epoxy. Denatured alcohol is not a reactive agent with their epoxy, and will weaken the glue; as told to me by Steve Goodman from Auscraft Marine. Steve is BCP's distributor in these parts.

Back to the race, Zana had it shot to bits yesterday afternoon, then she went eleven nm off course, and had to come back. She got back to within 1.8nm of Scandia after this mistake. Then late last night, when she got to within 0.2 nm of Scandia, the crew must have worked hard, she headed to the wrong passage, then had to join the race again. I bet the team isn't happy with the navigator, ... they didn't look happy. Zana came second for the coverted L/H.

The Skipper of Bounder sold the boat and bought Yendys (a brand new boat) to have a better chance of winning on handicap this year. He sold his house as well to finance the boat. It looks like Bounder might beat Yendys on handicap in the IMS Division. Life's like that somedays hey.

Yendys has now dropped back to third. Most unfortunate.

Warren.

[ 01-11-2004, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

Phil Young
12-30-2003, 07:10 PM
Mate, the sikaflex will keep most or all the water out. Pop down the hardware shop, get some paint, water based house paint is easiest to apply and to clean off the brushes, whack a couple of coats on inside and out and get it in the water. She aint a bloody museum piece, she aint worth spending the next 6 weeks and a thousand $ on her. What these guys guys would have you spend on buckets of epoxy will buy you a darned good second hand outboard, give it 15 horses or so should be fine. Get out there mate.

Wild Wassa
01-02-2004, 08:27 PM
Dingo, if the boat is only a 15ft'r, I found Tony H's figure, to be spot on for CPES coverage.

I used 1lt of each of A and B on the outer hull (2lts of working solution). The quantity gave me, one saturation coat, then two lighter top coats and repeated touch-ups on the exposed end grain, over the following week. The endgrain kept drawing the CPES in so I kept painting it on. Expect to use most of the quantity on the first coat (about 70%), ... just think that you are painting a sponge. The surface seemed insatiable, when I did my boat.

I kept coating until I had a uniform gloss level, or as close to uniform as I could get. Some parts of the outer hull, may of had only two coats. Don't feel that you have to push to three coats, it is maximum saturation that you are after. You will know when it has worked. I allowed the full 8 day cure, your time will be shorter. This is temperature dependent.

I also found that I needed a good scratch before CPES accepted BCP's epoxy. The only thing that didn't hold true in Smith and Co's instruction, but this was mixing different manufacturer's products.

One thing Dingo, is that CPES won't seep under the filling that you have already done.

Warren.

ps,Thanks for waiting Mate, and thanks for the new address.

[ 01-11-2004, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]