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Dryer lint
10-06-2006, 07:10 PM
From a sister publication I was reading. These are being produced in South America. 3.7 nautical miles per gallon.

http://www.anchoryachts.com/images/sterling_yachts/SA43_5_12.jpg

Dryer lint
10-06-2006, 07:12 PM
same boat different configuration topside

http://www.anchoryachts.com/images/sterling_yachts/SA43_3_1.jpg

Stiletto
10-06-2006, 07:58 PM
To my eye they look like a mixture of different styles.

Dan McCosh
10-06-2006, 08:09 PM
Any idea how they achieve the fuel economy?

The Bigfella
10-06-2006, 08:17 PM
It could use another 12' - 15'

72rdstr
10-06-2006, 08:26 PM
I like the look.

Lew Barrett
10-06-2006, 08:34 PM
To my eye they look like a mixture of different styles.

I'm in complete agreement, though given my penchant for traditional lines, I'd suggest they keep at it until they get it right. .

Lew Barrett
10-06-2006, 08:35 PM
Any idea how they achieve the fuel economy?

Running at 6 knots? Make that 5.5.

Dryer lint
10-07-2006, 08:19 AM
Any idea how they achieve the fuel economy?

First off the boat was designed by Greg Siewert,( not a yacht designer but an industrial designer.) He calls the style " innovative design solutions with a blend of contemporary and traditional marine styling".

It has round bilges with a deadrise of about 10 degrees aft. The butt lines have a hollow spot in the aft quarter which help to reduce squatting at higher speed- reducing wake and increasing fuel economy. It will plane. The designer told the builder to save every pound possible and this boat is slightly more than 20,000 pounds..there are plans in the works for a 53 foot model as well.

The hull, deck and house are corecell, e glass and vinyl ester resin sandwich construction. The corecell and e glass together giving better strength characteristics while keeping weight as low as possible.

Dryer lint
10-07-2006, 08:28 AM
http://www.siewertdesign.com/pdf%20files/woodboatarticle.pdf

bamamick
10-07-2006, 08:31 AM
it DOES look like it needs some more length, but it is a very handsome boat nonetheless. Is there a sizeable boat building industry in Brazil?

Mickey Lake

Lew Barrett
10-07-2006, 11:35 AM
I still think the lines are somewhat clumsy; more the house than the hull. Of course, I like it far better than anything builders like Meridian are doing and I applaud the designers for keeping the boat (relatively) narrow at 12' 8", but it looks like a lot of windage to me. Certainly a fine direction to take, but if we're talking about "beautiful" there's no way this stands up to the existing classics, either in overall lines or fine details. What's so hard to grasp about translating the old look into a modern building idiom with new materials but a reverance for real style? They can even play with the hull forms if they like (not that there's that much improvement possible within the context of efficiency). There's no way this boat is going to make 3.7 MPG in the real world above hull speed with standard propulsion no matter how little she weighs. Not quoting her fuel burn at a given speed means to me that to get that 2GPH burn she won't be doing more than 7 knots or so. That's pretty standard consumption for old boats of her size. Rita can do almost that with twins, though she's 50 feet, so admittedly at an advantage.
I applaud the effort and the direction, but these guys could spend more time looking at the old boats and come up with a more refined design as far as "sweet" goes. Close but no cigar. Maybe she's sweeter in the flesh....

Dryer lint
10-07-2006, 11:42 AM
I still think the lines are somewhat clumsy;

And some folk feel that slim young ladies in bikinis need more meat on their bones. I guess its all a matter of taste and I personally like this design.

uncas
10-07-2006, 11:46 AM
Dryer lint
I'm gonna make a suggestion. When I see your handle posted with what appears to be another bikini thread, I don't open it.
I would change the title. I only looked at this one as it has been quiet around here. No other reason but I expect I'm not the only one who originally passed it by..

Lew Barrett
10-07-2006, 11:50 AM
http://www.classicyacht.org/pnw/pnwgallery/CleIllahee.jpg

Good design is a matter of taste, so you are of course welcome to your opinion, and I thank you for posting the thread. This is more to my liking, and provides equal efficiency at similar speeds on half the power in a similar sized package.

Dryer lint
10-07-2006, 03:03 PM
You have a pretty boat Lew no doubt about it, and should rightly be proud of it. Had I unlimited funding, and could afford a varnishing crew, and was able to find a competant carpenter to chase leaks, rot, electrolysis issues, and deteriorating fastners on a full time basis, I would be in a position to enjoy a boat such as yours. But technology has advanced greatly in boatbuilding in the past 60 years or so and by employing modern materials this designer has eliminated the majority of those problems. It isnt just that fact that a boat is wood that gets my attention- there have been plenty of wooden dogs built over the years that I dont feel deserve the money that is funnelled into them.( though I have enriched my self monetarily because someone else thought otherwise) . I like a boat because it has character and a sense of timeless beauty. In that I think this designer has done well. Anyone can plagirize anothers work and this designer could have probably recreated any of a thousand yachts from the past, but he created something new that takes from the old classics collectively.

Life is too short to spend it babying an ageing money pit. I'd have to say I prefer a modern classic due to maintenance issues alone.

Dryer lint
10-07-2006, 03:08 PM
Dryer lint
I'm gonna make a suggestion. When I see your handle posted with what appears to be another bikini thread, I don't open it.
I would change the title. I only looked at this one as it has been quiet around here. No other reason but I expect I'm not the only one who originally passed it by..

I hear what youre saying Uncas, but as this is the bilge, I am betting that I get more hits with this title rather than one along the lines of "look at this modern classic" or similar.;)

Phil Heffernan
10-07-2006, 03:15 PM
I like a boat because it has character and a sense of timeless beauty. In that I think this designer has done well. Anyone can plagirize anothers work and this designer could have probably recreated any of a thousand yachts from the past, but he created something new that takes from the old classics collectively.

Life is too short to spend it babying an ageing money pit. I'd have to say I prefer a modern classic due to maintenance issues alone.

This boat caught my eye as well, and there is something about it that I like a lot, and yet something that doesn't quite fit...And it may just be the yellow hull ;)

I'm with Dryer in seeking a craft that won't require constant maintenance, because that is not the part of boating I enjoy that much (though I do it anyway)...Some do, however, and for them, SMALL wooden boats are the best compromise between class, cost, and labor...The bigger they go, though, the less you can do it yourself without the aid of a sizeable checkbook:eek:

I have a feeling this boat of Dryers is sweet indeed...

PH

PS: Here is the boat with a blue hull...Mo' Betta'

http://www.anchoryachts.com/sya43ext_1.php

Dryer lint
10-07-2006, 03:24 PM
http://www.siewertdesign.com/Pages/A42yachting%20review.html



and a white hull Phi though still a bit more brightwork than my aching back and fingers can take.lhttp://www.anchoryachts.com/images/sterling_yachts/SA43_3_1.jpg

Lew Barrett
10-07-2006, 03:29 PM
You have a pretty boat Lew no doubt about it, and should rightly be proud of it. .... But technology has advanced greatly in boatbuilding in the past 60 years or so and by employing modern materials this designer has eliminated the majority of those problems. ........ but he created something new that takes from the old classics collectively.



That's one's not mine, but I think it's pretty too. The boat above runs at eight knots at about 2.5 GPH, so just about as efficient as the modern design. There's no reason it, or something like it, couldn't be rendered in a modern version. I wasn't suggesting that it has to be old to be pretty, but that the forebearers had an eye for what is right. This one's a Vic Franck build, probably designed in Seattle by the old man. The old guys had an eye for beauty and symmetry that modern designers could well benefit from paying more than cursory "lip service" to, and the values of efficiency and easy motion through the water were well understood and paid great attention in the era before WWII. Nothing wrong with the baby from Brazil, but here one can behold the original.

Larry P.
10-07-2006, 05:25 PM
Life is too short to spend it babying an ageing money pit. I'd have to say I prefer a modern classic due to maintenance issues alone.

Then why are you plaguing the woodenboat forum. Go somewhere else.

James River Rat
10-07-2006, 05:50 PM
This boat caught my eye as well, and there is something about it that I like a lot, and yet something that doesn't quite fit...And it may just be the yellow hull ;)

It is the arch top windows for me....UGH...

Other than that not bad.

paladin
10-07-2006, 05:52 PM
I like the basic lines of the boat, but somehow the proportions do not seem right, they don't work together smoothly, and the "Flying bridge" looks like an afterthought...the forward windscreen should cant in the opposite direcion, just a few degrees forward of vrtical.....

seafox
10-07-2006, 05:53 PM
I think the brazilian design is missing about 8 feet at the stern. if it had either cockpit or decked low wngine space at the aft end about 8 foot longer I think it would look ballanced. I agree to much house and too far back

BrianW
10-07-2006, 06:01 PM
The boat does look better without the flybridge, but I'd have one anyhow, just for fun value. After all, it will look great from the helm. :)

LeeG
10-07-2006, 06:17 PM
It is the arch top windows for me....UGH...

Other than that not bad.


zactly, with the squared off window in front and the flybridge,,too many different angles

Lew Barrett
10-07-2006, 07:16 PM
A styling critique:

The house is too high, the shearline is way off, dropping down too much behind the break, the rails are very wrong and the angles are too acute to really look like an old boat, or at least like a good example of a traditional boat. At first blush I was sort of liking it, but the more I looked at it the more I saw concessions in the lines, and things done to make the boat appeal to people who were thinking of buying a football with a handle (Bayliner) but with a different twist. Paladin and Lee point to it by discussing the angles (of the windshield) which actually should be closer to vertical to align with the plumb bow. The rear house is off, and has obvious line problems, probably required to give adequate headroom; the sole would be set low in a proper boat, and the "bridgedeck" would be the place you'd look out from. The forward house is much too high, but paradoxically, the side windows are also set too high (and they needn't be so small), and it appears that you can't see out of them from the inside anyway. The rear windows are way too big, and whereas in an original, the sole would be set low in the boat so the house could be correspondingly low, here the house is too tall because the cut line in the shear is so sharp. The house is too high by way of compensation to get the headroom they wanted. The more you look at the original(s) versus the new one, the more you will see that the new isn't nearly as artful, and that the designer didn't know enough about traditional boat design to pay an accurate homage. It's not about wood versus plastic so much as it is about harmony in line. The old boats look right because they are right. This boat is an OK first effort, but needs more study. They may sell a thousand of them and I hope they do and start a trend, but people familiar with classic yacht design will never be fooled by this boat's inaccuracies and concessions.

Lew Barrett
10-07-2006, 07:25 PM
http://www.classicyacht.org/pnw/pnwgallery/Belle.jpg
The Belle, a fiberglass repro, built in 1981, designed by Ron Bell

http://www.classicyacht.org/pnw/pnwgallery/euphemia.jpg
Euphemia, the real deal, Schertzer Bros.

http://www.anchoryachts.com/images/sterling_yachts/SA43_5_2.jpg
The Brazilian effort

The above in hopes of illustrating my points.

Paul Girouard
10-07-2006, 07:31 PM
The above in hopes of illustrating my points.

Tryin ta make a point with Jack / Ish / dryer lint /seafox is sort of pointless Lew :rolleyes:

Lew Barrett
10-07-2006, 08:15 PM
I did it for you Paul:D I didn't realize dryer lint and Jack were one and the same.

Stiletto
10-07-2006, 10:53 PM
A good critique Lew, my initial impression was that the superstructure looked like it was from a different era to the hull.


Still, if they treat that design as a starting point for a series they have done okay.

PeterSibley
10-08-2006, 05:03 AM
It looks like a good seaworthy launch to me ,more a mid 80's British influence if I had to suggest a source .I like it

rbgarr
10-08-2006, 10:18 AM
They may sell a thousand of them and I hope they do and start a trend, but people familiar with classic yacht design will never be fooled by this boat's inaccuracies and concessions.

AFAIK they haven't and not too many have sold.

I went aboard the first Atlantic 42 like the one shown in post #19 above at an in-water boat show in Savannah. Bob Stephens reviewed her in WB Issue #161.

IIRC, I didn't care for the overly varnished (polyurethane, perhaps?) interior. Too glossy, sort of like those acrylic dipped 'hatch covers' in nautical themed fern bars. (Am I snobby or what?) Nor did it have classic curves drawn with a good eye... more like it was drafted on a computer.

Anyhow, to each his own.

http://www.siewertdesign.com/Pages/content_atlantic42.html

Dryer lint
10-08-2006, 03:20 PM
This guy makes his living from yachts. I guess he knows something about them and design.;)

http://www.siewertdesign.com/Images/A42%20yachtingreview.gif

Dennis Caprio
Dennis is a former senior editor of Yachting magazine, and served as an editor for Soundings, and Small Boat Journal.

rbgarr
10-08-2006, 03:40 PM
I can't recall a review where Caprio ever panned a yacht... and Yachting Magazine is not even a shadow of its former self. It's not much more than a shill sheet for the rich and famous now.

Lew Barrett
10-08-2006, 04:40 PM
The boat in the artist's rendering is a bit different than the yellow hulled one, and even Caprio acknowledges that the windshield rake is off. I think if it were to mimic an old boat, it would have a plumb windshield, not a reverse rake, but for the boat they drew, maybe a reverse rake would be preferable, not something I'd care to argue in either case.
Based on the wording, I don't think it had been built when Caprio wrote the review. But obviously nobody needs permission to like it, and variances of opinion on these matters are to be expected, and understood, so I see no harm or foul in liking it. I stated my case, Caprio stated his, the market will decide.
I see this discussion as a pleasant diversion, nothing too serious. Added; compared to some of the stuff they are building these days, this boat is something that doesn't raise the hackles or make you laugh out loud.

Joe (SoCal)
10-08-2006, 07:01 PM
Dutch even my artistic bent leans towards Lew Barrett's position. The boats you have shown are severely poor imitations of the real deal.

Buy one if you have the spare $400+K but if it were my money I would go for the real deal.

Lew, you have some significantly fine taste in these kinds of boats.

Dryer lint
10-09-2006, 08:29 AM
Bob Stephens writing for a review of this boat, for WB magazine also wrote an approvingly of the boat.

By the way the boat is reviewed in the OCT/Nov issue of Professional Boatbuilder Magazine, a publication which covers the gamut of boat building, rigging and outfitting technologies available. I believe PBB has done more good in way of educating boat building professionals in the last dozen years than any other source of information. I would recommend it to anyone serious about the industry.

Lew Barrett
10-09-2006, 10:13 AM
Thanks Joe! Lou Sargento and I both have a passion, only his is cheese and mine is rotten old boats. They both end up smelling bad if you're not careful though!:D

Nicholas Carey
10-09-2006, 03:08 PM
This boat caught my eye as well, and there is something about it that I like a lot, and yet something that doesn't quite fit...The the arched windows in the house, the lifelines on the foredeck and the flying bridge all distract from the shape. Remove the lifelines and the flying bridge, change the windows and you've got a much better looking boat:

http://www.anchoryachts.com/images/sterling_yachts/SA43_5_2.jpg

John Meachen
10-09-2006, 05:06 PM
I like the concept of the boat and it looks better in the rendering used to accompany the review.A dark blue hull would probably look more nautical than the yellow chosen for the boat.The comment about the shapes of the window cut-outs could equally apply to Euphemia in Lew Barret's post as some have arched tops,some appear straight with a radius in the corners and there are circular ports as well.The remark about the lifelines spoiling the look is on target,the illustration shows how much better the boat looks without them.It is an unfortunate fact that regulations may require their presence and I can't see any way in which they can be made to flow from stem to stern.I would consider it an improvement, in safety terms at least, if the section from the break in the sheer continued to the transom.A low bulwark being a real trip hazard along the side decks.The other incongruous feature is the use of a varnished wooden frame for the windshield on the flybridge.I can understand the cost reasons for choosing wood but the penalty is the near certainty of black stains and ultimately rot in the lower corners of the frame.This may appear to be heresy on this particular forum but the rest of the exposed surfaces of the boat feature no more than a little wood as highlights.
The main point is that there are tens of thousands of worse boats than this cluttering the marinas of the world.Some of them are over-styled and impractical,many of them use more fuel and some are not particularly durable.The challenge for the builders will be to find customers,I wish them well.

Lew Barrett
10-09-2006, 06:18 PM
I like the concept of the boat and it looks better in the rendering used to accompany the review.A dark blue hull would probably look more nautical than the yellow chosen for the boat.The comment about the shapes of the window cut-outs could equally apply to Euphemia in Lew Barret's post as some have arched tops,some appear straight with a radius in the corners and there are circular ports as well.The remark about the lifelines spoiling the look is on target,the illustration shows how much better the boat looks without them.It is an unfortunate fact that regulations may require their presence and I can't see any way in which they can be made to flow from stem to stern.I would consider it an improvement, in safety terms at least, if the section from the break in the sheer continued to the transom.A low bulwark being a real trip hazard along the side decks.The other incongruous feature is the use of a varnished wooden frame for the windshield on the flybridge.I can understand the cost reasons for choosing wood but the penalty is the near certainty of black stains and ultimately rot in the lower corners of the frame.This may appear to be heresy on this particular forum but the rest of the exposed surfaces of the boat feature no more than a little wood as highlights.
The main point is that there are tens of thousands of worse boats than this cluttering the marinas of the world.Some of them are over-styled and impractical,many of them use more fuel and some are not particularly durable.The challenge for the builders will be to find customers,I wish them well.

I entirely agree with your wish for the builders, and the endless supply of less attractive boats. What can be said about this one if aesthetics are to rule has been said.
Regarding a continuation of the rails; it's not practical (and what isn't practical is never attractive) because the side decks aren't really meant to be walked along, (maybe crabbed along) notwithstanding the handholds on the rear house. I believe one would find perhaps four inches or less of footing back there, and this is common in modern boats. The beamier they make the house, the more interior room may be built in. Typical thinking today. My critique never mentions the cut of the windows; that's for others to tweak. Nor do I dislike round portlights, or find them out of step with "square" windows. I think the larger aesthetic problems with this boat as built, are the huge drop of the shear and the proportions of the two houses. That, and the disconnect between the square house shapes, the plumb bow, and the angles of the windshields. I've already mentioned my dislike of the cut of the rails, particularly the rails forward where they drop to the deck with yet another different and distinct angle, not eased off at all.
Let's go back to Euphemia and the window shapes, then. All the windows of the forward house have a very modest curved cutout on top, subtle and consistent. Not a problem there, barely a notice given. The Brazilian windows? Apart from the standout black rubber mounting, the real issue is the proportions. Too big at back, too small up front, all in the wrong places for seated viewing. (Look at the plan detail to see whatI mean). In Euphemia, it's the proportions of the overall boat that please and make sense. There's a sleek purpose to Euphemia that is entirely lacking in Brazil. And the windows don't really call any particular attention to themselves, one way or another; in fact, nothing does.
Again, and for perhaps the third time, sure, this is a better design than any number of possible approaches; much more in keeping with what's real about a boater's needs. And, for a boat that will never travel more than 12 or 13 MPH, modern "streamlining" (which is mercifully, mostly, absent in this design) is a styling trick, and this boat avoids that. But if you look at the lines, just the lines, you can see how the designer missed the main point of great design, and landed with just a decent one. Certainly in the litigious world today, no builder is likely to omit waist high rails at the bow, as they were free to do in Euphemia's time, (Euphemia's rails are not her stand-out feature in my view, by the way) but the treatment given is but one of the off details. The boat instead attempts to provide all the modern amenities and to compete on a foot by foot interior space basis with the usual ilk of current builds, and in so doing makes what could have been a true classic-makeover into something less. And that's really my point; not that it isn't nicer than a Sea Ray.

Dryer lint
10-09-2006, 07:13 PM
Are you attempting to say that it is less because it has a reefer instead of an icebox? I dont fathomr your belittlement. I doubt many here do, unless they are stuck in the past in some sort of moldy dream world.

Bob Cleek
10-09-2006, 09:03 PM
I never fail to be amazed by the folks who feel the need to design a "traditional" boat all over again. There are many, many, really great, and proven, designs. True classics. Yet, there are those whose hubris compels them to design something "better" than those done by the giants of the field. If I were spending the money it takes to build a boat, I sure wouldn't want to build an untried design by a neophite. Why not build one by one of the greats, which is already proven? Just doesn't make any sense.

Phil Heffernan
10-09-2006, 09:50 PM
I never fail to be amazed by the folks who feel the need to design a "traditional" boat all over again. There are many, many, really great, and proven, designs. True classics. Yet, there are those whose hubris compels them to design something "better" than those done by the giants of the field. If I were spending the money it takes to build a boat, I sure wouldn't want to build an untried design by a neophite. Why not build one by one of the greats, which is already proven? Just doesn't make any sense.

Exactly. Why can't I get an exact copy of a 1920's boat, yet built with modern tech and material?

Ego, that's why...No one is willing to admit that the apotheosis of the art was achieved 80 years ago :D

PH

Lew Barrett
10-09-2006, 10:13 PM
Are you attempting to say that it is less because it has a reefer instead of an icebox? I dont fathomr your belittlement. I doubt many here do, unless they are stuck in the past in some sort of moldy dream world.

No. I'm not stuck in the past, and it's not about refrigeration:rolleyes: I appreciate great design. This, in my opinion, and with all the explanation I could possibly bring to it, isn't that. Thank you Bob for making my point in fewer words.

Dryer lint
10-10-2006, 06:50 AM
Thats like saying the model t or later model a was the end all in the auto world. Or a cave woman is the classic beauty upon which all other women should be judged. Doesnt make any logical sense and I still like the new one better.

Phil Heffernan
10-10-2006, 07:06 AM
Thats like saying the model t or later model a was the end all in the auto world. Or a cave woman is the classic beauty upon which all other women should be judged. Doesnt make any logical sense and I still like the new one better.

De gustibus non disputandum est. There's no accounting for taste ;)

PH

rbgarr
10-10-2006, 07:18 AM
Let's remember that dryer lint is 19 years old and may not have experienced older designs in the flesh, so to speak.

Lew Barrett
10-10-2006, 11:04 AM
...... Or a cave woman is the classic beauty upon which all other women should be judged........

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid216/p0f5ea9f5afa07103b348be6b7fcb909f/ec96dbf2.jpg


I believe you owe us an apology. And dinner!

Joe (SoCal)
10-10-2006, 11:30 AM
Lew :D

SPEW :D :D :D
Good One, very good one :D

Lew Barrett
10-10-2006, 05:01 PM
Joe,
Making you happy makes me happy!:D ;)

botebum
10-10-2006, 05:14 PM
DL makes a valid point re: the modl t and cave woman remark. I don't happen to share his taste in boats but my eyes aren't closed to new designs or reworked old ones.

Doug

Lew Barrett
10-10-2006, 06:32 PM
DL makes a valid point re: the modl t and cave woman remark. I don't happen to share his taste in boats but my eyes aren't closed to new designs or reworked old ones.

Doug

No he doesn't. I'm always on the lookout for new ideas that will ease the job or make things better, as are most of the restorers and builders on the forum. And I have been called to task more than once for questioning old practice.
However, an old boat with modern power (hell, with old power in good trim) will perform virtually as well as this boat, both as to speed, sea-keeping, efficiency, and refrigeration (added years ago in most cases, using high quality components). The comment about the low maintanance is on target, but let's see how well she does in 70 years. She's new, and that's always a plus.
The simple matter is the slim young ladies in the bikinis are the Geary/Monk/Atkins designs. This thing's dowdy.

botebum
10-10-2006, 06:38 PM
Lew, Yes actually he does make a good point. There can be improvements made in design. The fact that you and I both think that this particular boat is not an improvement does not invalidate that point.

Doug

Lew Barrett
10-10-2006, 06:45 PM
OK Doug, we're on the same page there.

siewertdesign
10-23-2006, 02:44 PM
I heard through the grapevine that there was a discussion on this forum about my Atlantic 43 design. I've just concluded a 8,500 mile year and half cruise on my own Sterling Atlantic 43, ILHABELA, thought I'd add some details of my own, if you don't mind.

I think there seems to some confusion about whether this is a replica or reproduction of the early 20th century commuter yachts. It is neither.

My initial goal was to find or build a stylish, fuel efficient cruiser for the US east coast. This cruising would be up and down the Intracoastal Waterway (ICW) and Erie Canal, which is fairly protected with plenty of overnight stops. A sailboat is plenty efficient, but the shoaling and bridges of the ICW makes it a painful trip. Speeds above 20 knots aren't needed it my opinion because of no wake zones and consideration of other boats.

I looked at buying and rebuilding an old Matthews or Dawn, but quickly ruled it out for two reasons:
1-I don't have the time or budget for restoration of that scale of boat.
2- The layouts of these 1920 & 30's era boats weren't really geared for cruising. The were meant for commuting between to points, quickly. Any accommodations they did have were single bunks and a small galley, not what I needed.

These old designs still had an attraction though, and that is what I used as an inspiration for developing the Atlantic 42 & 43. I think what many cruisers want is a boat that fulfills their goals and needs as well as attracting admiration and respect from their fellow boaters. In our cruise, every time ILHABELA entered a marina there was a crowd of admirers. Not only that, but with the 2 of us, it was a very comfortable, if not luxurious, life onboard.

The fuel economy figures were very respectable. Over those 8,000-some miles we AVERAGED 3.25 NM/gal with the single 220 Cummins. A majority of the time we cruised at 8.7 knots, but that figure includes plenty of battery charging and idling at marinas. With the newer common rail, QSB series engines, I'd expect 5-10 percent better economy and performance.

Are there things I'd change? Of course, but not too many. I might have incorporated a chine into the forward sections to knock down the spray more and increase the forward cabin volume slightly. I nixed that idea early to simplify wooden construction, but in the end it was a foam core/FRP hull for Sterling.

Other things? I might have raised the wheelhouse floor another 2 inches for more engine space, but really the visibility is so good in the wheelhouse it is a wonderful place to be.

The flybridge version shown in this forum is actually hull #3, the boat was never designed with a bridge, only because I don't care to be outside driving, but this owner wanted it. Could the bridge be better? I don't know, but I think we incorporated it while keeping the original flavor of the design. I am told it is quiet and and also has good visibility.

Are there lines or details I'd change? If you are physically on the boat and see that these lines are defined by important factors such as cabin space or floor elevations maybe they'd gain more respect. But, as it is said, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". That is why there are so many boat models and manufacturers. Everyone thinks they have the nicest boat afloat.

I learned very early on that yacht design is by definition a compromise. There are many factors involved, hydrodynamicaly, structurally, ergonomically, and ascetically, all of which must work together successfully to create a marketable product. This boat has the closest relationship to all those factors of any design I've been involved with.

Dryer lint
10-23-2006, 03:48 PM
and may I say that you are obviously not the dillatante that so many here are.;)

Your boat is indeed a beautiful piece of design and had I the funds I would be signing up for a copy sans the fly bridge station.

I hope we hear more from you in the future, whether its down here in the bilge or topsides.:)

John Meachen
10-23-2006, 05:25 PM
I would like to echo the welcome for the designer of a stimulating boat.As stated in my earlier post,I believe it to be a better boat than many thousands of others and if the owner(s) are happy,the design brief has been satisfied.

Stiletto
10-23-2006, 07:09 PM
Welcome to the forum, you have my respect by coming forward to answer your critics.

Dryer lint
10-23-2006, 08:19 PM
bump

Lew Barrett
10-24-2006, 02:22 AM
Welcome to the forum, you have my respect by coming forward to answer your critics.

You have gained my respect for coming forward as well Mr Siewert.

mmd
10-24-2006, 05:03 AM
"No one is willing to admit that the apotheosis of the art was achieved 80 years ago " -PH

Was it? Or could it be that the images of eighty-year old boats have just resided in your psyche for so long that you have accepted them as the de-facto benchmark against which all other contenders must be measured and, due to inherent reticence to accept change, are doomed to fail? Aren't all creative endeavors predicated upon the successes of the past? If a past object is deemed beautiful does it then stand to reason that all attempts to create a variation on the theme must cease?

I think not. Designs - especially of yachts - draw from past influences while incorporating new methods and technologies, are limited by rules and regulations and practical considerations, and are always catering to the demands of the buying public. In the end, designers often have little freedom to introduce a totally personal design or stylish innovations and expect to make a living. Let me assure you, the majority of the buying public is more concerned with interior volume for spacious living, minimum LOA to reduce marina fees, and high speed at low cost. Given these constraints it is not possible to create a marketable design that has the sleek styling of the '20's commuter yachts, and the actual boats of the era do not have the amenities demanded by modern buyers.

I think that Mr. Siewart has produced an elegant design that is pretty successful at marrying the features demanded by today's cruising powerboaters with the styling cues of the classic powerboat era. There are subtle design features that I would change if it were my task to design such a boat, but that is the nature of individual creativity. Good on you, Greg, and congratulations on a fine design - I hope hundreds of hulls are sold!

I would like to take this opportunity to possibly commit WBF suicide by chastising some of the participants on this thread for their ill manners. Any design is open to criticism - after all, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But to publicly make such presumptive and personally offensive statements as "...the designer didn't know enough about traditional boat design to pay an accurate homage." is downright rude. I would suggest that, regardless of what boat you own nor how much you have studied a class and style of yacht, you do not have the information nor the authority to pass judgment on what a successful yacht designer knows or does not know.

Ok, rant over. Look away. Nothing more here to see. Go back to shuffling and mumbling.

Dryer lint
10-24-2006, 06:48 AM
Thanks mmd- guess that is what I have been attempting to say all along, with my "moldy dream world" comment.

siewertdesign
10-24-2006, 09:37 AM
Thanks for the opportunity to present my thoughts on the design of the SA 43. I'm impressed by the level of discourse on this thread and the WB forum, but I'd expect nothing less from WB aficionado! It is definitely refreshing from the balance of the boating industry.

To those who thought the 43 needed a few more feet of length, there are plans for a 47 and 53 foot version. The 47 is pictured here and gives you 2 cabins and the option for twin engines as well. It seems to be the more popular size of the two among the buying public.

Hopefully you will see more of these models cruising the waterways soon. Time will tell.

Dryer lint
10-24-2006, 01:47 PM
most of the phony balonies that disparaged the design are avoiding this thread like the plague now.;)

Paul Pless
10-24-2006, 01:50 PM
I noticed that too.

B_B
10-24-2006, 04:08 PM
don't matter how you slice it the plumb ends and the angled 'windshield' don't marry well. the height of the house is nicely hidden when one adds the flying bridge - imho she looks better with it than without (the lower windshields angle is echoed in the portuguese bridge bringing some cohesiveness to the overall shape - something a lot of modern designs don't do well).

I think the longer boats look better - they're better able to handle the heights needed by modern consumers (ain't no way you'd ever be able sell more than one or two if you didn't have standing head room throughout - and people think they're taller than they used to be...)

paladin
10-24-2006, 04:48 PM
Now...doggonnitt....I resent that remark....I commented on the windscreen THAT IT WAS NOT TO MY TASTE.....I (I said I) would have preferred a more vertical, forward slanting windscreen, and I would..
But I also agree with Michael, as it's a matter of individual taste....
and that said....
Welcome aboard.....

Lew Barrett
10-25-2006, 11:46 AM
Dryer Lint. To ease any hubris I may be responsible for, I will refrain from making comments that may be viewed as ad hominem on anybody in this thread, even to include you, going forward. I'd ask you do the same, but have it your way. I have heretofore paid my respects to Mr Siewert and clearly, as he has entered the room, everything changes, just as it would if a Meridian designer were on the thread responding to the comments made about "his" lines.

Mr. Siewert: I apologize sincerely for the "designer didn't know enough" comment. It's a slam unnecessary to the discussion, and is forthwith retracted.

Mr. Siewert, again sincere apologies, and welcome.

paladin
10-25-2006, 11:59 AM
I guess that's why I don't draw boats for other folks....just fer me....something that works for me does not usually appeal to others...and I could never do a "modern boat"...I like old style channel cutters, tugs etc...but no used as a work boat...the one I have laid out now is a good example...32 feet on deck, 12.5 foot beam, 3.5 foot draft...full displacement, minimum power...comfortable.....for me...