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View Full Version : Why can't they leave them alone (coverage of the Amish shooting)



Concordia...41
10-04-2006, 08:13 PM
On the news tonight, the footage of the Amish community grieving seems to have an equal or greater number of photographers visible than Amish folks.

I know it's news, but it seems to me that the photographer, who stands a few feet away snapping pictures of young girls as they pray in front of the school, is cut from the same cloth of filth as the madman that killed the students. :mad:

End of rant... :(

bamamick
10-04-2006, 08:15 PM
I agree. Leave them to grieve on their own.

Mickey Lake

Katherine
10-04-2006, 08:17 PM
I agree. Leave them to grieve on their own.

Mickey LakeSame here.

Concordia...41
10-04-2006, 08:24 PM
I don't know.

My grandparents were Mennonite, but I was to young to appreciate / absorb anything other than the conservativeness of it all.

In some strange bizarre way of things happening for a reason, maybe the Amish devout faith and insistence on forgiveness might touch some of other extreme faiths and bring them to kindness and forgiving vs suicide bombs and more killing in the name of God/Allah/Mohammad.

- M

Tar Devil
10-04-2006, 08:25 PM
It doesn't hurt to dream big, Margo.

However, people are people, I'm afraid.

Later,

Phil

Ken Hutchins
10-04-2006, 08:34 PM
I agree, the news media is always causing problems with victims and others.
IMO all the news hype of the other school shootings is probably what got this guy started on his rampage.

glenallen
10-04-2006, 08:58 PM
It's easy to forget that the media lives only for this sort of thing. They are parasites who live off other people's lives.
I just have to turn it off.
One interview I saw yesterday with a 17 year old Amish girl was disturbing to me. I know forgiveness is a good thing for the forgiver if he can do it.
But this girl said,
"It was God's will. It was these little girl's time to die. If they had not died this way they would have died another way. It was their time."
Sorry, but I can't buy that.
If I truly believed there was a God that mindless, I'd have to spend my days hunting him down and killing him like I would any other mindless killer.
But I don't believe it was God's will. I believe it was the will of one psychopath. I do not forgive him.

botebum
10-04-2006, 09:13 PM
It's my understanding that these people want to be pretty much left alone to live their peaceful lives. They accept and understand that this situation requires a veritable invasion of police and other authorities. The press, on the other hand, would do well to elect one out front contingent that would filter first hand info to the rest.
Give the people the respect they deserve.

Doug

George Roberts
10-04-2006, 09:42 PM
I don't know if the Amish deserve any more respect than the rest of us. We get little respect from the press.

I suppose the Amish have private property that they could retreat to to avoid the press. Hard to blame just one side.

S/V Laura Ellen
10-04-2006, 09:52 PM
It's my understanding that these people want to be pretty much left alone to live their peaceful lives. They accept and understand that this situation requires a veritable invasion of police and other authorities. The press, on the other hand, would do well to elect one out front contingent that would filter first hand info to the rest.
Give the people the respect they deserve.

Doug

A journalist that shows respect, you've got to be kidding, it'll never happen.

The concept that a journalist be respectful should have been posted on the "False Accusations" thread.

botebum
10-04-2006, 09:59 PM
I am Silly Silly Man #5790 and I refuse to give up hope that one day the press will aquire a conscience.:(

Doug

BrianW
10-04-2006, 10:01 PM
I agree Margo, except the point about the photographer being 'cut from the same cloth' bit.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
10-04-2006, 10:03 PM
Wouldn't be any media if people didn't read the stuff.

WX
10-04-2006, 10:09 PM
"It was God's will. It was these little girl's time to die. If they had not died this way they would have died another way. It was their time."
Sorry, but I can't buy that.

I agree, but these people are that close to God in their devoutness that they would have to think along those lines, otherwise one would have to question a God that would allow such a think to happen to his chosen people.
personally, the whole thing turns my stomach, what this bloke had planned to do to these young girls is so abhorrent, that I find words fail me....as if cold bloodedly shooting them wasn't bad enough.

S/V Laura Ellen
10-04-2006, 10:11 PM
I doubt that God (If you beleive) micro manages us to that level. Somehow I think that God would be working at a higher level.

Bob Adams
10-04-2006, 10:12 PM
The vultures, er I mean the media will beat this until the ratings fall. Feeding the cycle until another physcopath decides this is the way he wants to go out, and so it goes.

WX
10-04-2006, 10:23 PM
I doubt that God (If you beleive) micro manages us to that level. Somehow I think that God would be working at a higher level.
Doing what?
If he's not going to help the little people then there are an awful lot of people wasting their time praying.

glenallen
10-04-2006, 10:33 PM
I doubt that God (If you beleive) micro manages us to that level. Somehow I think that God would be working at a higher level.
Doing what?
If he's not going to help the little people then there are an awful lot of people wasting their time praying.

My sentiments too, WX. Who needs a God with his head in the clouds or up his arse.

It's just further proof to me that either 1. there is no God ,or
2. He is utterly out of touch and useless

72rdstr
10-05-2006, 12:10 AM
This makes me more than a little angry
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/viewstory.asp?Page=/Nation/archive/200610/NAT20061004a.html


Bible-Spouting Group Plans to Picket Amish Funerals
By Susan Jones
CNSNews.com Senior Editor
October 04, 2006

(CNSNews.com) - A Kansas-based group that says "God hates fags" plans to picket the funerals of the Amish girls killed by a disturbed man in Lancaster County, Pa.

The Westboro Baptist Church -- described as a hate group by the Anti-Defamation League -- has made a name for itself by picketing the funerals of U.S. troops killed in Iraq. The troops are dying as punishment for America's tolerance of homosexuality, the group says.

The Westboro group says the Amish school girls were "killed by a madman in punishment for Gov. Ed Rendell's blasphemous sins against Westboro Baptist Church.

"Gov. Ed Rendell -- speaking and acting in his official capacity to bind the State of Pennsylvania -- slandered and mocked and ridiculed and condemned Westboro Baptist Church on national Fox TV," the group says on its website.

"Rendell also revealed a conspiracy to employ the State's police powers to destroy WBC in order to silence WBC's Gospel message. Co-conspirators identified by Rendell included state officials, citizens, lawyers, legislators and media," the website says.

Westboro Baptist Church said it is "continuing to pray for even worse punishment upon Pennsylvania."

A number of states have passed laws to keep groups like Westboro away from grieving families at funerals, but last month, a federal judge ruled that a Kentucky law barring protests within 300 feet of military funerals and memorial services is too broad and may not be enforced.

In other developments, the man who shot and killed five Amish schoolgirls apparently planned to sexually abuse them first, investigators said. But he apparently didn't get a chance: Charles Carl Roberts IV killed himself when police arrived on the scene.

Suicide notes left by Roberts indicate he was dreaming of molesting girls. He reportedly told his wife he had molested two young relatives 20 years ago - and wanted to do it again.

"It's very possible that he intended to victimize these children in many ways prior to executing them and killing himself," State Police Commissioner Jeffrey Miller said on Tuesday.

Roberts also indicated he was anguished over the death of a daughter who died shortly after birth nine years ago. In his notes, he said he was "filled with so much hate" and "unimaginable emptiness," but everyone who knew him said they never saw signs of his psychological distress.

botebum
10-05-2006, 12:31 AM
If a psychopatic gunman has to visit a gathering to commit his deed why does it have to be innocent children in school, why not the weekly meeting of the WBC?

Doug

Phillip Allen
10-05-2006, 05:06 AM
I've never known the media to be respectful of anything but their own agenda...Dan Rather was never doing anything but pursuing his own agenda...and that is that...ruthless though careful to use their “own” definition of ethical behavior.

“The world NEEDS the news we bring to them and the world has a RIGHT to the news we bring them”...it is the truth the lies are hidden in.

Tylerdurden
10-05-2006, 05:22 AM
I can understand what they mean by "Gods Will" in this circumstance.
It was a completely unforseen and unstoppable incident.
How can anyone else find reason for it?

What I cannot stand is when that saying is used to shirk responsability.

uncas
10-05-2006, 06:50 AM
Margo I agree.
However, it is all about ratings.
If people didn't want to watch the stuff and choose not to, the ratings would go down and the news casters would not bother following the story or any similar one.
..
As it is, I would bet there are probably 100 million watching this horror story unfold as I write. Please note, I'm on the forum not glued to the TV.
In fact, I have not watched any of it.

Think about it way back when the the media followed a white bronco driving at 25 mph down a highway for four hours. And think about all of those people who watched that bronco drive down the highway at 25mph for four hours on TV.

Brian Palmer
10-05-2006, 06:59 AM
from the Patriot News:

About our coverage

Thursday, October 05, 2006

We have heard from a number of readers who are concerned about whether our coverage of this tragedy is invading the privacy of the Amish. While some in the national media may bully their way into Lancaster County and cover the Amish as if they are a circus sideshow, these are our midstate neighbors, and The Patriot-News has always tried to show sensitivity and respect for the Amish in our news coverage.

Since Monday, we have been careful to respect whatever limits the Amish themselves have established. We have spoken with Amish men and women who made themselves available to answer questions in public but, for example, did not seek them out in their homes. We have respected those Amish who did not want to identify themselves.

Several readers asked about our photos of the Amish. They had heard that the Amish do not like to be photographed.

Actually, some Amish will allow themselves to be photographed, according to Kim Fortney, head of education at the Heritage Center of Lancaster County. But it is true that most Amish will not want to draw that kind of attention to themselves as individuals. In the Amish view, Ms. Fortney said, an individual who cares about himself first is not caring about his family or community.

We at The Patriot-News respect those deeply held views.
In this case, a terrible news story has been unfolding. The Amish, tragically, have found themselves thrust in the middle of it.
We have photographed the scenes of this news story and many Amish people were there -- next to police cruisers or ambulances, sometimes speaking in front of journalists and cameras. In using these photos, we have tried very hard to balance our job of telling the story with our tremendous regard for these people of faith and peace.

We promise to continue doing that -- because, like you, we are their neighbors.

- David Newhouse, executive editor of The Patriot-News

uncas
10-05-2006, 07:02 AM
Brian.
I think there is a difference between written news coverage and TV's coverage. I am glad the paper you C&P'ed has some decency and only wish the TV stations did as well.

Brian Palmer
10-05-2006, 07:07 AM
Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) will not protest the funerals. They accepted an offer from nationally syndicated radio talk show host Mike Gallagher for an hour of airtime in exchange for dropping the planned demonstration, according to this morning's paper.

The Amish also accepted an offer from Governor Rendell to have a State Police presence at the funerals to keep WBC protesters and the media away.

The WBC has some sort of affinity for this part of PA. They are here about once a year to protest at Iraq war funerals or any sort of gay/lesbian awareness event.

-- Brian

uncas
10-05-2006, 07:11 AM
Brian, heard that the other day. Anyone who protests at a funeral should be strung up in my books. At least tarred and feathered.
And it soesn't matter whose funeral it is. Regardless, there are people who are grieving. A protest is totally unnecessary.
But, here is the example of a group looking for their 20 minutes of fame. It now has it on national TV. Another clip I want watch.

TomF
10-05-2006, 07:16 AM
I agree that the Amish should be left alone. To pursue them is appallingly disrespectful, if predictable. I won't pump up the ratings by watching it; if enough folks choose the same way, it will be over sooner.

Brian Palmer
10-05-2006, 07:20 AM
Uncas,

It'll be radio. You don't have to watch.

-- Brian

uncas
10-05-2006, 07:22 AM
Good, I won't have to listen. There is this little on off button on my radio. :)

Gary E
10-05-2006, 08:06 AM
In that part of Lancaster Co just about NOTHING ever happens...... other than the corn grows and the cows give milk. When something like this happens it is NEWS... you, who dont like news, turn off the radio, dont buy the papers, dont own a TV and maybe you will get the world as you want it, but you'l be so uninformed, you wont know if your wish ever comes true.

uncas
10-05-2006, 08:10 AM
Gary
There is news and there is sensationalism. The school killings and the aftermath, the funerals the grief, is where the news begins to go too far.
Fine if you want sensationalism. Follow it right to the last shovel of dirt.

TomF
10-05-2006, 08:13 AM
In that part of Lancaster Co just about NOTHING ever happens...... other than the corn grows and the cows give milk. When something like this happens it is NEWS... you, who dont like news, turn off the radio, dont buy the papers, dont own a TV and maybe you will get the world as you want it, but you'l be so uninformed, you wont know if your wish ever comes true.We've been informed about the shooting. We don't need to be informed about every tear shed, every shovel of dirt on the coffins, or see touching memorials with the girls' ragdolls or pet goats. That's not news, it's an invasion of privacy. I wouldn't wish it on anyone else who's grieving.

Gary E
10-05-2006, 08:14 AM
Gary
There is news and there is sensationalism. The school killings and the aftermath, the funerals the grief, is where the news begins to go too far.
Fine if you want sensationalism. Follow it right to the last shovel of dirt.

I didnt hear you complaining about the reporting of 9-11

What a buncha hipocrits around this joint...

Gary E
10-05-2006, 08:15 AM
We've been informed about the shooting. We don't need to be informed about every tear shed, every shovel of dirt on the coffins, or see touching memorials with the girls' ragdolls or pet goats. That's not news, it's an invasion of privacy. I wouldn't wish it on anyone else who's grieving.

Then TURN OFF YOUR TV

TomF
10-05-2006, 08:16 AM
I complained about the reporting of 9-11. And I've dreaded every 9-11 since, for the same reasons.

You don't like the views 'round here, fine Gary. Nobody's stopping you from logging off, and turning on the Amish funerals on TV instead.

edited to add: FWIW, when the Amish coverage came on after day 1, I did either flip the channel or turn it off.

uncas
10-05-2006, 08:17 AM
I wasn't on the forum then. Maybe I would have.
But I will add, I see a big difference between both events. Perhaps you don't which is your right.

Concordia...41
10-05-2006, 08:38 AM
Then TURN OFF YOUR TV

I do. I also will not buy any newspaper, magazine or tabloid that features an invasion of privacy or an attempt to profit from tragedy. OK, so maybe I did by a copy of the whatever it was when the headline said that Hillary Clinton had given birth to a space alien, but I figured that was worth the $1.75 (or whatever). ;)

Something else you can do - when you're standing in line at the grocery store and a publication has a headline that is inappropriate, turn it over. I.e. pick it up out of the rack and put it back in face down. If anyone notices you doing it, explain why.

I saw it first done back when the media swarmed over Princess Diana's accident scene. And I've done it ever since. My one small step...

- Margo

Stinkbug
10-05-2006, 08:51 AM
However, people are people, I'm afraid.

Later,

Phil

dont worry, your dwarve friends have your back :)

Keith Wilson
10-05-2006, 08:57 AM
Something else you can do - when you're standing in line at the grocery store and a publication has a headline that is inappropriate, turn it over. I.e. pick it up out of the rack and put it back in face down. If anyone notices you doing it, explain why. Good idea; I think I'll start doing that. At the very least I'll be less embarrassed to be a member of the same species as those who buy, much less write , those magazines. Or maybe I could take a few copies of serious magazines off the rack back in the store and put them in front by the register - Scientific American, or Fine Woodworking, or Consumer Reports - (They don't carry Wooden Boat).

Bob Adams
10-05-2006, 08:59 AM
If a psychopatic gunman has to visit a gathering to commit his deed why does it have to be innocent children in school, why not the weekly meeting of the WBC?

Doug

Because that would not generate the sensationalisim these animals crave.

uncas
10-05-2006, 09:01 AM
Keith
Watch out, there are some people who believe that stuff.

Milo Christensen
10-05-2006, 09:35 AM
(They don't carry Wooden Boat).

Suggest that rectifying this should be your first priority.

geeman
10-05-2006, 12:51 PM
Theres only one place you can find Wooden Boat on the shelf in this area and thats "Books a Million".Every where else only carries plastic boat mags, I guess because thats about all you see in this area,plastic boats.

JimD
10-05-2006, 01:28 PM
Western consumer society is grotesquely overstimulated and will not keep in check it's rampant appetite to gorge the senses. The media is a symptom of this gluttony. This is just another example of the media as junk food vendor serving up cream puffs to the obese. Don't like the media smorgasborg? Stop stuffiing your faces you fat pig of an excuse for a culture and quite bellying up to the daily all you can eat media pig out. Show some restraint and go on a freakin' diet fer Gawd's sake. If people stop buying it people will stop selling it.

geeman
10-05-2006, 01:31 PM
"YOU"? define "you"

JimD
10-05-2006, 01:38 PM
"YOU"? define "you"

'You' is 'we', both as a consumer society in general and as individuals. You/we know when we are overindulging. You/we can operate on the assumption that free will exists and choose not to consume indiscriminantly. Or not.

Geeman, you're not going to take this personally are you?:D

geeman
10-05-2006, 01:41 PM
NAw!!!!!!!!!!! we're cool! LOL I just wanted to make sure I knew where "YOU" were coming from LOL

geeman
10-05-2006, 01:42 PM
Your dead on tho in regard to the mags/media only using info they know we want .IF we didnt want it they wouldnt use it

Keith Wilson
10-05-2006, 01:48 PM
If people stop buying it people will stop selling it.True. However I don't buy it, not do any of my friends. It's a big country, and there are enough people with trashy minds to support a lot of trashy magazines and television shows. If there are enough people to support a well-produced glossy magazine about wooden boats, fer chrissake, the National Enquirer has nothing to worry about. :(

JimD
10-05-2006, 01:50 PM
The real culprit is decadence. There is essentially nothing new going on. The principal difference between our contemporary media frenzy and the the blood sport extravaganzas of the Roman Colliseum is advances in (electronic) communication technologies. We no longer need make any attempt to go to it. It comes to us, continuously, ubiquitously and relentlessly.

JimD
10-05-2006, 01:59 PM
McDonalds grew into a huge junk food chain by selling those wretched cheeseburgers. But eventually, billions of burgers later, people finally told McDonalds how about some salad? And McDonalds eventually changed the menu. There is hope.:D

Elcoholic
10-06-2006, 11:05 PM
I drove south to my son's house on PA Rt 896 on my way home from the Hershey AACA meet on Wednesday night. I passed an Amish building (schoolhouse?) where at least 30 satellite dish trucks were parked. There were cops, firemen, yellow "do not cross" ribbons and rent-a-cops all over the place. The entire scene was disgusting. The televised media has zero respect for people's privacy. They are society's vultures.

elf
10-07-2006, 07:27 AM
As a member of the media I'm very sorry to see such unmoderate opinions from the small group of you grousing about this. I strongly suspect that quite a few of you have TVs, since you speak of seeing all the hubbub around this sad and stupid occurrence.

There are quite a few things you can all do, if you actually want to see the media doing respectful and productive work.

Try reading. There is a large amount of well researched and reported printed material out there in the world, and some of it is accompanied by visual reportage of very high quality. I recommend to you the serial visual exploration of the Katrina situation in The New Yorker, for example.

And for top quality visual and verbal reportage on sailing let me suggest you look into the fabulous work being done by the people at http://www.regattanews.com The imagery coming from the Voiles de St-Tropez right now is sparse but fabulously beautiful and imaginative.

Finally, if you are seriously offended by the coverage of the tragedy in Pennsylvania, you might want to consider the relationship of the rulings on media consolidation during the Bush II administration and get more directly involved with local and regional politics.

The mob has been taught to buy what it's fed but lovers of wooden boats should, by definition, be seeking to disassociate themselves from the mob, and that includes living daily in a way that is liberated from that stuff.

Phillip Allen
10-07-2006, 07:38 AM
more about this later...

JimD
10-07-2006, 10:49 AM
The concept of freedom carries with it the notion of freedom to be left alone, the freedom of privacy. Every Pilgrim fleeing old Europe and every cowboy who ever rode off into the sunset understood freedom this way. I bet the Amish do, too. This notion of freedom to be left alone has since been swarmed and almost completely overwhelmed by the freedom to invade the privacy of others and the electronic age has created such pervasive means of privacy invasion that the freedom to have privacy barely exists anymore. I was watching Glen Beck on tv the other day and he was talking about freedom of speech and how when men like Thomas Jefferson were defining such freedom there was an understanding that those excersizing freedom of speech, congregation, etc., were assumed to be decent and responsible citizens not a bunch of morbid sensationalist tv crews with no respect for anyone.

Gary E
10-07-2006, 12:16 PM
So everyone of you that dont want the news would be ok at not finding out that the marina where you keep your boat cought fire and burned up because someone started shooting and a stray bullet blew up a boat with 300 gal of gas in it which set off another and another eventually setting fire to over 100 boats, some with people cought sleeping in their bunks were killed and many are suffering burns. Your just fine with not knowing untill you either read it in the paper or better yet find out next spring when you drop by to paint the bottom...But...but.... but....it's a BOAT YARD of course you wana know... sheesh.

JimD
10-07-2006, 12:27 PM
Reporting events and hounding grieving people half to death need not be the same thing.

Gary E
10-07-2006, 01:02 PM
Reporting events and hounding grieving people half to death need not be the same thing.

The Penn State Police were in charge, did you see anyone "hounding" anyone?
Was anyone arested or even scolded for "hounding" ?

JimD
10-07-2006, 01:20 PM
The Penn State Police were in charge, did you see anyone "hounding" anyone?
Was anyone arested or even scolded for "hounding" ?

Of course not. That would infringe on the media's constitutional right to surround somebody's property with truck loads of cameras, microphones and every other sort of snooping device for as long as tv advertisers are willing to pay them to. The constitutional right to pander. The right to sink below rather than rise above.

Gary E
10-07-2006, 01:25 PM
So, JimD, do you wana know if your boat yard blows up and your boatless or not???

JimD
10-07-2006, 01:31 PM
So, JimD, do you wana know if your boat yard blows up and your boatless or not???

Yes, I would want to know if my boat blows up. Especially since it's in my garage at the moment.

Phillip Allen
10-07-2006, 01:31 PM
Gary...are you saying "If you're not with me, then you're against me"?

Gary E
10-07-2006, 01:51 PM
I'am saying it was the publics right to know, and furthermore the Amish were treated with respect, the Penn State Police make damn sure of that.

JimD
10-07-2006, 02:11 PM
... the Amish were treated with respect, the Penn State Police make damn sure of that.

Glad to hear it.

Phillip Allen
10-07-2006, 02:25 PM
I see...and the public's right to know trumps private rights? Or is it the media's right to make money from the tragedy in people's lives the trump card here?

Gary E
10-07-2006, 02:34 PM
I lived about 30 maybe 35 miles from Nickel Mines and the Amish area started 5 to 10 miles from us. The Penn State Police always did make sure no one intruded on their life style. Very few instances of trouble because of or related to the Amish. Your on the other side of the country, but if you ever get anywhere near Lancaster be sure to visit their area.