Andy Warhol

[ishmael]

Ric Burns, Ken's brother, has a new multi-part biography playing on PBS.

I heard him interviewed on one of the morning talkies. He said, and I quote, that Warhol was the most important artist of the twentieth century.

I'm sorry, but Warhol was a whacko. Not that that should disqualify him, and I'm sure he was gifted, and tapped into something, but the most important artist of the twentieth century because he silk screened Marilyn and Cambells soup cans? What about Klee, or Miro, or Picasso, or Chagall? Warhol comes off a technician in comparison.

[Stinkbug]

the guy did nothing original. all he did was copy **** and add a bit of strange color or shadow

one of the big shots of the day said about warhol, (sic) "hes the biggest creep I have ever met in my life"

[ishmael]

I was friends with one of the curators at the Baltimore Museum of Art when I lived down that way. I'll never forget a day I was visiting just after they'd acquired a large Warhol. He'd actually painted it. It was okay, interesting, but not much my taste. I asked her how much the museum had paid for it. 150 big ones! She was too ecstatic for me to express a genuine opinion.

Maybe I'm way off base, and Warhol will be well considered two hundred years from now, but I doubt it. If anything I think he'll be a footnote to the the decline of the West.

[brad9798]

Warhol wasn't sh*t. Right place. Right time. That's all.

His artistic ability couldn't hold a candle to most college students ... overrated, COMPLETELY!

[Meerkat]

I didn't/don't care for Warhol's work, but I sure wouldn't mind having an original canvass for the money it would fetch!

[paladin]

I think I posted elsewhere....he liked little boys......

[ishmael]

That painting might have been a good investment. It's probably trebled in value. I'd adise them to sell it now, strike while the iron is hot. In just a few years it will be a ho hum, IMHO.

More likely it will sit in a gallery and people will with a glance pass it by for what it is, mediocre.

When I lived down in B town I rubbed shoulders with the artistic community. My next door neighbors were artists. I liked John's work, came this close to buying one of his paintings. He was good. A bit surreal, a bit of realism, they felt like genuine expressions of the mind. I don't wonder if he's still painting, I'm sure he is.

[Landrith]

Sometimes Warhol is characterized as the first painter to make a fortune painting. Not true when you go back far enough but for a post WWII American, maybe he and Pollack and in the end, by recycling familiar images and Icons in Pop Art he saved painting (what museums were acknowledging and showing) from becoming meaningless and incomprehensible to most Americans. Impressive when you think he came to the big city with nothing but a paper grocery bag of drawings.

Can it be too far from Chip Flanagan building a new Dark Harbor design compared to the latest sailboat technology?

[ishmael]

I'm not saying Warhol isn't important in some way. But he's important in the way a Noam Chomsky is important: a commentator, not an artistic genius. The desire for everyone to be a hero for a few moments is one of his most pungent observations. I predict his legacy will follow that dictum.

[Landrith]

I agree, I used to buy an occasional issue of his Interview magazine. He acted like and is portayed as clown in some things but he made many shrewd insightful observations on our culture outside of his pictoral work.

[Bruce Hooke]

I would not rate Warhol as the most important artist of the 20th Century, and I'm not sure if it even makes sense to pick one artist for that honor. That said, Marcel Duchamp would be high on my list if I had to pick someone. However, Warhol and his compatriots did transform the art world with their work, and that is the basis on which artists are commonly judged to be important. I see Warhol and company as having built on what Duchamp started, which is partly why I would rate Duchamp as more important. However, Duchamp's work is so inscrutable that he often seems to get lost in the shuffle.

Be careful not to confuse technical skill with artistic importance.

[ljb5]

I think Warhol's influence on art is that he found a new way to feel and appreciate it.

Prior to Warhol, art was something that was created and then presented to the public.

Warhol's art was meant to engage and envelop the viewer.

Interesting, I guess. But not enough to get my vote. I'd pick Picasso.

[ishmael]

I don't know ****e from shinola, as the saying goes, when it comes to art. I know what moves me, and I know what doesn't.

When I was a freshman in college as part of my art history class the professor took us into the college gallery. There were a bunch of sorry-assed paintings. They didn't move me except toward a B in the class.

I like Miro, and Chagall. There's imagination in their paintings and lithographs. It's wild, uncontained, imagination. Beautiful. Warhol was a firebrand, without enough imagination to say boo, other than burn it down.

[Phil Heffernan]

I would not rate Warhol as the most important artist of the 20th Century, and I'm not sure if it even makes sense to pick one artist for that honor. That said, Marcel Duchamp would be high on my list if I had to pick someone. However, Warhol and his compatriots did transform the art world with their work, and that is the basis on which artists are commonly judged to be important. I see Warhol and company as having built on what Duchamp started, which is partly why I would rate Duchamp as more important. However, Duchamp's work is so inscrutable that he often seems to get lost in the shuffle.

Be careful not to confuse technical skill with artistic importance.

I'm with Bruce, Warhol was a modern day Duchamp, following wholely in his tradition...But certainly updated to the standards of modern Pop Culture...A genius in many ways, as he picked EXACTLY the images that most rersonated with his cultural cohort: Campbells Soup, Marilyn, Elvis, Elsie the Cow...:D

Andy kicked ass in the late 20th cent., and should always be remembered for that ;)

PH

[Bruce Hooke]

I'd suggest that it is important to draw a distinction between "interesting art" (or art we like) and "important art." There is lots of beautiful art being made that lots of people enjoy, but that does not really break any new ground. Then there is the art that forges a new path and lays the groundwork for future artists and future art movements. Such work is important, even if it is not so aesthetically pleasing in some cases. Aritists who make such work will be remembered because they will mark turning points in the history of art.

[ishmael]

Let's see some Duchamp.

[Blekingseka]

I would not rate Warhol as the most important artist of the 20th Century, and I'm not sure if it even makes sense to pick one artist for that honor. That said, Marcel Duchamp would be high on my list if I had to pick someone. However, Warhol and his compatriots did transform the art world with their work, and that is the basis on which artists are commonly judged to be important. I see Warhol and company as having built on what Duchamp started, which is partly why I would rate Duchamp as more important. However, Duchamp's work is so inscrutable that he often seems to get lost in the shuffle.

Be careful not to confuse technical skill with artistic importance.

Bruce (and Phil) You guys are right on. Some boatbuilders need to stick to boatbuilding. Taste doesn't always determine importance/worth.

[Phil Heffernan]

I'd suggest that it is important to draw a distinction between "interesting art" (or art we like) and "important art." There is lots of beautiful art being made that lots of people enjoy, but that does not really break any new ground. Then there is the art that forges a new path and lays the groundwork for future artists and future art movements. Such work is important, even if it is not so aesthetically pleasing in some cases. Aritists who make such work will be remembered because they will mark turning points in the history of art.

Yeah, what he said...

PH

[ishmael]

The making of Warhol into some icon, some turning point, marks our doom. In that sense, and that sense alone, I suppose he's found his fifteen minutes of fame, and then some.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Pssst Phil, I don't do art history with Ish anymore, aint worth it, and he wont get it. But you and Bruce did an admirable job ;)

Carry on

[Paul Pless]

I heard him interviewed on one of the morning talkies. He said, and I quote, that Warhol was the most important artist of the twentieth century.
What was he supposed to say, he's trying to sell his show.

Anyways, I've always liked his 'art cars'.

[ishmael]

One of the unconsiderate weighs in. It figures. What else have you to do when selling property that doesn't really belong to us?

[Paul Pless]

I see a few notable artists left off the short list of great twentieth century artists. I'd definitely consider putting the old freak show himself atop that list...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/85/Tuna-fishing.jpg

[Bruce Hooke]

Let's see some Duchamp.

You asked for it, but I'm not so sure you're going to like it!

Here are two examples to give you a small feel for his range, which was unbelievably vast (Google will find you lots more, much of it even more puzzling than either of these works):

Nude Descending a Staircase (1912), in which he explores the depiction of motion. When first exhibited the critics (and the public) largely hated it. One critic described it as looking like an explosion in a shingle factory, but it opened up a whole new way of portraying motion in a painting (as well as poking fun at the cubists).
http://people.brandeis.edu/%7Ejhale/Art/Duchamp/duchamp_nude_staircase.jpg


Fountain (1917), which is the most famous example of his "ready-mades" via which he put forth the proposition that everyday objects could be art. If people hated Nude Descending a Staircase, Fountain sent people right over the edge. At least Nude Descending a Staircase was a painting, Fountain was simply a urinal that Duchamp turned on its back and signed with the name "R. Mutt." The ultimate affect of Fountain and other related work was to give birth to the whole field of conceptual art, in which the idea was more important than the physical craft. To some this was the death of art, to others it was the birth of an explosion of new possibilities for art that both moved it into the realm of real life rather than just being pretty stuff to hang on a wall, and moved it from the realm of skilled trade into the realm of philisophy and other intellectual pursuits.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Duchamp_Fountaine.jpg

This website talks a bit about Duchamp and his work and provides some context: http://www.understandingduchamp.com/

Duchamp's work has never been wildly popular with the general public, but within the art world it was hugely influential. When I was in art school in the early 90's it was still an important reference point, decades after it had been made.

[Bruce Hooke]

Pssst Phil, I don't do art history with Ish anymore, aint worth it, and he wont get it. But you and Bruce did an admirable job ;)

Carry on

:D :D :D

Thanks! Your opinion on matters of art means a lot more to me than many others.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

One of the unconsiderate weighs in. It figures. What else have you to do when selling property that doesn't really belong to us?

Nice retort ;) Almost artistic or is it autistic :D . So now I'm to take art history lessons from .... (fill in the blank) .. Not the professors I studied under while minoring in art history at The School Of Visual Art in NYC.

Just like your global warming climatology opinion has weight over a NASA climatologist at the Goodard space institute. Who is also a physicist at Columbia. Yea but you have doubts so your opinion is equal. :rolleyes:

And when you are called on it you get snide Oh well I can live with it, can you ;) ?

By the way what's an unconsiderate ??? Hey but your the writer. What do I know I'm just in real estate.

How was detox ?

[ishmael]

Unconsiderate. I don't care if it's a real word, it's real enough for me.

Yeah, let's pussy up to the bully. The flame of the west is in fear and dominance, so who am I to argue? I shan't have opinion about anything, all linebacker rules.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Unconsiderate. I don't care if it's a real word, it's real enough for me.

That about sums all of your opinions on all matters to me. I'll go back to not trying.

Carry on. :D

shan't ??? Did you just type shan't ??? No seriously you used shan't ?? :rolleyes:
No wonder you haven't been laid in a coons age :rolleyes:

[Tom Montgomery]

In The Painted Word Tom Wolfe tells a story about Warhol in the early days of his celebrity. Seems Warhol was attending a formal dinner party hosted by a wealthy patron. Utterly confused by the array of silverware before him, Andy simply sat quietly without eating. The hostess asked, "Aren't you hungry?" Andy replied, "I only eat candy."

[pipefitter]

I always thought Warhol's stuff was strange and some of it made me want to look away from it.It seemed a hoax somehow.
As far as interesting and wondering what in the hell could an artist be going thru or where such thoughts could come from whether chemically induced or just down right freaky would have to be Dali. I loved going to the Dali museum. I actually paid attention to the tour guide. Whether it was trendy or commercialized, it was just not a bad thing to do to go look at his paintings. The Great Paranoiac was one of those that even though you could see the intention of a picture made of pictures when squinting the eyes it becomes more detailed or at a distance. http://www.virtualdali.com/36GreatParanoiac.html

[JimD]

Most important artist of the century is a bit of a stretch but important nevertheless. One thing that makes an artist important is the ability to define the times they live in and Warhol accomplished that far more insightfully than some will give him credit for. He deserves his 15 minutes of fame.

[ishmael]

Now see, I like that Duchamp. 1912. There was a growing frustration with "progress", an alienation. A nascent rebellion against the comfortable middle class that was so rudely interupted by the madness of millions of young men dead a scant few years hence. The painting feels like a premonition. It is so fractured, so linear; almost completely divorced from the subject. If it weren't for the title it would look like a mad architectural study, but you can just see a nude descending a staircase. Nice depth to it, from what I can tell off a computer screen. It's visually appealing, in an odd sort of way.

One of my idiot art critic litmus tests is could I live with this on my wall? Can I find something interesting or beautiful in it anew every time I look at it?

Dali painted some interesting stuff, particularly in his early and middle work. Surrealism, the attempt to make dream into object here and now, was(is) a fascinating movement. A bit anarchist as it played out for my sensibilities, but I can appreciate the intent.

Something to note. A girlfriend had a Dali painting, but there was some question if he'd actually painted it. Apparently, later in life he had accolytes do paintings he signed his name to. Caviar empty, um I mean caveat emptor.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

One of my idiot art critic litmus tests is could I live with this on my wall? Can I find something interesting or beautiful in it anew every time I look at it?

http://www.stew-art.com/images/Trailer%20Trash.jpg

[LeeG]

cool,

[ishmael]

Thinking about this has kindled a desire to learn more. Maybe you can help me out Joe. What are some good books about art, say from the impressionists forward? Sister Wendy kinda books that have good plates, but also interesting commentary.

I can look again and again at say some of Van Gogh's landscapes, and always find new things. I can't remember the one, but in it there are all kinds of strange inclusions of seeming extraneous stuff. Stuff that doesn't belong in the landscape but popped out of his mind. A sort of "where's Waldo?" cornucopia of oddity.

P.S. I like the painting of the trailer. I could see moving down to it. LOL What was it Sterling Hayden once remarked while living on a river barge on the Seine? I paraphrase. A man, when you get down to it, needs very little. A place to lie down, enough to eat, meaningful work, and a bit of love.

[LeeG]

two out of four, keep at it Jack.

[ishmael]

Two out of four ain't terrible. Working on the others. How many do you have, Lee?

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

What are some good books about art, say from the impressionists forward?

History of Art
Sixth Edition.

by
H.W. Janson is usually a good place to start.

http://cwx.prenhall.com/bookbind/pubbooks/janson5/images/cover.gif

Traditionally most people get stuck at anything beyond impressionist, since it still holds onto some realism. For some people if it has no realism it has no effort. Most people like you who have a limited grasp on contemporary art go by the "will it look good on my wall" approach. Common problem with modern or contemporary art. Thats why I recommend Janson its the text book bible that goes through all of western art, it's kinda light on eastern art but hey what do you want everything ;) .

Anyway the only true way to understand contemporary, modern or pop art is to see the art that it comes from. Then you can awaken the ahhh factor. When you know the thought behind the brush you see the long line of the entire art movement ( cause it is moving ) You can see ground breaking shifts like Warhol in the context of a much broader spectrum than your simple quaint concept of does it look good on my wall, can I live with it.

Personally esthetically, Warhol is not my cup a tea, but I know why he is considered who he is in the art world and for that I can appreciate his place.

I said I was not going to do this and hear I have again. :rolleyes:

I could break out and show you artist, contemporary artist, that I think you might enjoy given your propensity for more realistic works. Atists Like Eric Fischl who paints like an angel but has a sly psycho sexual post modern twist to his work, that I think would appeal to your jungian sensibilities. Artist like Robert Longo who owe a great deal to the groundbreaking images that Warhol produced. Anyway enjoy your quest, but try not to form hard and fast opinions about subject matters that you have not deeply explored. You come off sounding like an ass.

[Stinkbug]

wafi

[Milo Christensen]

Ahh, the Brrrrronx junk yard rottweiler side of Joe's personality (?) is dominant this morning. Good God! He wanted a shrub named after him, but it'll probably be a new psychiatric condition. Is Joe's condition a new one in the annals of psychiatric science, a schizoid narcissist?

Jack, you're the psychologist in the crowd, what do you think?

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

:rolleyes: Yawn, Ish is an art historian and Milo is a psycologist, and people say I'm self absorbed.

Have fun guys I'm going sailing ;)

[LeeG]

Milo, do you mean Jack doesn't sound like an ass when he trips between ernestness and ambivalence using purple prose?

[Ian McColgin]

I was lucky as a teen to be taken under the wing of the then middle-aged representational painter Pat Windrow and her older friend the portraitist John Koch. They took me to some Warhol events, introduced me and helped me understand why they so admired him, even though their own work was utterly different. And I kept a nodding acquaintance because my old school roommate, the not well known author Henry Flesh, became part of the Factory.

To this day my friends who are artists, including the impressionist Sam Barber whose paintings go in the higher five figures, all share the same notion that Joe and ljb5 and Bruce and Phil have pointed to: Warhol made new things possible both for artists and the community at large.

Taste is but a part of the aesthetic experience. Taste is educable but still involves what you actually like.

For example, my taste in boats runs to sail boats, especially displacement monohulls. But I've still an educated understanding of and appreciation for various power boats etc.

My taste in poetry runs to locative stuff like Frost and sensual stuff like Edna St Vincent Milley but I still know why Ginsberg is so important.

Same with plastic and visual art. I'd rather a Wyeth (any of the three generations) than a Warhol on my own wall (had I a wall - won't fit on a boat) but there's no doubt who did more to change the human universe.

Ish, enjoy the journey.

(Oh yeah, Warhol like big boys also.)

[Milo Christensen]

...Milo is a (sic) psycologist...

A few credits shy, but if they'd let me, I pass the test to be a licensed psychologist. I've always found my knowledge of psychology to be more useful than art history.

Anyway, Joe, have a grand day! Sailing the Hudson in Fall! But come back in a more tolerant mood.

[Bruce Hooke]

I've got my requisite copy of H.W.Janson -- hard to get through art school without getting a copy if the blasted thing. I think one of my teachers put it well -- it is a great resource for images of art. I grab it when I am looking for a picture of such and such painting or sculpture. Unfortunately, it is about as much fun to read as the minutes of a sub-committee meeting on sub-committee meetings. I wish I had something else to recommend in its place, but I don't, at least off the top of my head. I certainly applaud anyone interested in learning more about art.

[ishmael]

I used to have a copy of Jansen that I bought for the art history class. I sold it. Pretty dry commentary, but some nice plates, and a pretty good sweep.

Joe's okay. We exchange insult occasionally, but I like him, mostly. When he grows beyond his fear of rejection I'll like him even more. I could say the same thing about myself.

The issue of Narcissus is something for all of us to contemplate. Those Greek pagans knew a thing or two about the human psyche. Narcissism, unless carried to the extreme Narcissus did, is just a part of the picture. We all desire feedback. Narcissus's sin was falling in love with his image to the point where he forgot to look around.

[Tom Montgomery]

Warhol and his art always struck me as being playful.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Well I have to say Milo was right, out sailing now. And no matter what the weather report says there is always a little wind. :) I'm out ghosting along with the tide ya just got to love how a catboat ghosts along. The leaves are still lush in the mountains, but there are hints of chainge. See ya all later.

[Milo Christensen]

Now that's the kind of art that I can understand.

[paladin]

I guess I've gotta go with Picasso....since I have three early ones hanging in my sisters house.....nice investment.....

[Stinkbug]

History of Art
Sixth Edition.

by
H.W. Janson is usually a good place to start.

http://cwx.prenhall.com/bookbind/pubbooks/janson5/images/cover.gif

Traditionally most people get stuck at anything beyond impressionist, since it still holds onto some realism. For some people if it has no realism it has no effort. Most people like you who have a limited grasp on contemporary art go by the "will it look good on my wall" approach. Common problem with modern or contemporary art. Thats why I recommend Janson its the text book bible that goes through all of western art, it's kinda light on eastern art but hey what do you want everything ;) .

Anyway the only true way to understand contemporary, modern or pop art is to see the art that it comes from. Then you can awaken the ahhh factor. When you know the thought behind the brush you see the long line of the entire art movement ( cause it is moving ) You can see ground breaking shifts like Warhol in the context of a much broader spectrum than your simple quaint concept of does it look good on my wall, can I live with it.

Personally esthetically, Warhol is not my cup a tea, but I know why he is considered who he is in the art world and for that I can appreciate his place.

I said I was not going to do this and hear I have again. :rolleyes:

I could break out and show you artist, contemporary artist, that I think you might enjoy given your propensity for more realistic works. Atists Like Eric Fischl who paints like an angel but has a sly psycho sexual post modern twist to his work, that I think would appeal to your jungian sensibilities. Artist like Robert Longo who owe a great deal to the groundbreaking images that Warhol produced. Anyway enjoy your quest, but try not to form hard and fast opinions about subject matters that you have not deeply explored. You come off sounding like an ass.


Yesterday, 07:27 AM
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Another quick thought. I have been involved in a few technical professions that have their own secrete code language that makes them feel superior and justifies to themselves that they have mastered a certain level of expertise. I can go along with it, and it does serve a common purpose when describing things within that field. But I also know some top people in these fields that will on occasion use the word Thingybob as in "Did you connect the Thingybob to the Whoesywhats . It has been my experience that those types of professionals who forego the nomenclature and just get the job done are the ones secure enough in their profession not to rely on the textbook definition, or text books in general, hell they usualy end up writting the damn book themselfs.

In boat building I would like to think Robb White was that kind of guy.


Last edited by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) : Yesterday at 07:30 AM.

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fart

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Yea so :) I can draw and paint as well . Can you ? ,D

[Stinkbug]

Yea so :) I can draw and paint as well . Can you ? ,D

well I can paint a boat - to yacht standards

and loft ( thats drawing out a boat full size from a table of offsets) and build a boat- i'd wager more boats have been built with my hands than the majority of folks on this forum

.............. and I also know how to "renovate" a boat so she dont leak ;)

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

My work.

Oil on Canvas

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid177/pb2a83e98e54681a4347dd946bb66ff49/f344f81a.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p1b4e02bc30691dd2cb96a1f25e06d6bf/f9b58189.jpg

Industrial Design & Furniture Design

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p9e10dca5803715967bfb77e826b955bd/fc1afd5c.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p4d986361d4f8d746ebbd87990a013043/fc1afd6e.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p70df09090505891abe3e65c27b5b93dc/fc1afd75.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/pc431df7df0ad2be07324984399833833/fc1afd7a.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid47/p8ed72dc408debf3c08d4f57a2211b79c/fcc76584.jpg

Nautical illustration

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid200/p550c2f54acf0cf6c43987652dc81106d/f0405a9b.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid200/pa84b7cd6e50d676b2454c2852f0dcc67/f0405a4a.jpg

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Actual boat restoration

Before

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid158/pf65b8893ba5fc3c3573d78c4ebf8f3e0/f51d4846.jpg

After

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid214/pe013fb4e84480359299e546861ebf8b3/ed237941.jpg

Before

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid194/pa22de3f862afff48fc939d0ea66777c6/f165bdcc.jpg

After

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m320/fosterhere/PhilonTidbit.jpg

So your turn Dutch

[Bruce Hooke]

Stinkbug, your post at 12:27 PM EDT makes little sense. What is a quote? What is your statment? Or is it some sort of attempt at inscrutible art?

Surely you can't be complaining about highly technical (not!) terms like "impressionist"! If you are, then you really don't have enough knowledge to take part in this discussion. That would be like someone who does not know what a rudder is trying to talk about boats. Note that I did not say know the word "rudder" I said know what one is. You have to know SOMETHING about a subject to talk about and have your talk mean anything.

[Hughman]

The art world is largely humbug. Dealers and gallery owners are trying to afford their expensive "lifestyle" :rolleyes: , so there is a game of the emperors new clothes going on. And, of course, having lots of disposable income doesn't mean that mental competence is a given! Such customers are the bread and butter of the "art scene".

The world of artists, on the other hand, (a critical distinction) does have an occasional genius, able to express something important, as opposed to those gifted in public manipulation.

[Nicholas Scheuer]

I never could understand what all the fuss was about.

Two faces I remember in Groupie photos were Jackie Kennedy and Truman Capote. They may have been the most notable thing about Andy W.

Moby Nick

[Leon m]

If I've learned anything in my life surrounded by artist (parents,grandparents,and wife), I've learned that art is intimate, Ya can't pigion whole it into intellectual catogories,Its like music it speaks to your soul...and if it doesn't then it wasn't meant for you.

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/SHD/S1779~From-the-Lake-I-Posters.jpg

[Stinkbug]

sorry baldy

its hard to impress someone who does it professionally and im not

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

sorry baldy

its hard to impress someone who does it professionally and im not

Prove it

[Stinkbug]

to dozens of satisfied customers :)

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

to dozens of satisfied customers :)

Prove it.

[Stinkbug]

no :p

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

no :p

Then you have nothing and no one on this forum believes you.

Therefor your opinion is worthless and pathetic. You are the weakest link bubye :D :p

[John Gearing]

Hey, did anyone actually watch the Warhol documentary on PBS? I saw most of it, and learned a lot about him. I had never known that he began as a commercial artist and rose to become the top one in NYC. And he got his first commercial assignment on his second day in the city! His stuff got the attention of advertising company art directors. But although he made a lot of money that way, he wanted to do fine art and he wanted to be famous. His early attempts at fine art were smacked down because of his coming from commercial art. Remember, when he came along trying to break into fine art, the abstract expressionists like Pollack were ruling the American art scene. Representational art was completely out. And so was Warhol because his was representational. One of his major contributions was to find a new life and new approaches to representational art after abstract expressionism. It is tempting to judge representatioal art by measuring how closely the painting looks like "what it's supposed to look like", i.e. its subject....e.g. a portrait. But if that's you measure then don't bother with paintings because photography does that bit so much better. One of the things that Warhol discovered about silkscreening was that if you don't clean the screen after each use, the line changes, the picture changes, in interesting ways. The way he used colors behind the screened images reminded me of Josef Albers. And his repeating sequence of Marilyn Monroe gave us an ever changing view of her, but also by choosing Monroe's image, he confronts us with a creature of our own creation....Monroe herself was held to be happy because every woman wished she could be Monroe. This is a major break with the standard portraiture, where the artist is trying to show those qualities the subject possesses of her own, not those we have given her.

By the way, I'm pretty sure Pollack did not get rich from his art. His patroness, Peggy Guggenheim, agreed to pay him a stipend (I recall that it was a few hundred bucks a week, but it could have been per month) in return for all the paintings he produced.

Some good books on art that are more about how to see rather than an encyclopedia of eras and styles: John Berger, "Ways of Seeing"; Joshua C. Taylor, "Learning to Look"; and my favorite...Peter London, "No More Secondhand Art" [translation: go make your own art...it is within you to do it].

Here's some wild stuff I like, stuff that I do with the artist every now and then...

http://www.isaiahzagar.com/pics/reese4.jpg

[Mrleft8]

The point is: He made a statement that was accepted as art.
Your derision of his art, (or craft if you wish) is a perfect example of his statement.
Do I admire Warhol? In some aspect......Yes.

[Wild Wassa]

"He made a statement that was accepted as art" ... or he supplied an artifact that was different in art?

I was originally going to add this "playful" image of a current restoration of Tasar foils to my thread, titled "A nice change, with a North American Feel" and dedaticate a desaturated copy of this image to Moris Louis ... but now saturated, I can only dedicate it to Warhol.


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid215/peb691268ad6a77cb6fbf776e9c320161/ecc88ff4.jpg


... also alternatively titled 'Selbst Portrait as Eight Tasar Foils ... with arms and legs spread while frenzied.'

Warren.