Chrysler Ace V6

[Mike Maher]

Hi All,

It's been a while since I first posted asking for help on managing the Chrysler Ace engine in our newly purchased Halvorsen 26 classic cruiser...got lots of great answers most of which we followed through on.
We have cleaned out the fuel tanks and boy did they spew forth some rank looking stuff including water. That seems to have fixed up the sporadic running. We have also installed a blower (well almost, we still have to do some small mods). The next thing is a gas detector and some engine instruments.

We still have trouble starting the beast. We have tried full choke and no choke plus all point in between. We've tried pumping the throttle and holding our heads to one side but it seems to have a mind of it's own....it may start, then again it might not.

Any advice on this would be gratefully received.

I'm attaching a couple of pictures for those who are interested.

Regards,
Mike
http://www.rtohelp.com.au/engine7.jpg http://www.rtohelp.com.au/engine3.jpg

[David McCollum]

Pumping the throttle on an updraft carburetor won't do anything. It is not like a car that has an accelerator pump, which pumps gas in when you pump the throttle. For safety on a boat, to prevent flooding, the updraft carb pulls the gas in by the vacuum of the engine as it cranks. My Chrysler Crown is similar to your Ace. I crank it with full choke, closed throttle, until it fires once. It usually stalls immediately. At that point I open the choke and crank again, with closed throttle. It usually starts, then I open the throttle while it is running to rev it up. Some partial choking may be necessary if it doesn't start at this point, but the problem with too much choke is the mixture can get too rich, not enough air, and have difficulty firing.

Of course, there are other problems that could cause your symptoms. How does your spark look? Is it a strong blue/white, or a weak yellowish color? Pull off the lead wire from the distributor and hold it close to the block while you crank one time. If the spark is yellowish, you need a new ignition coil. How is your compression in each cylinder? Mine was difficult to start the first time every spring until I poured a little oil in each spark plug hole to help seal off the piston head before starting it the first time. That boosted the compression for that first time, but that is not a good solution for every time you start. It is a good diagnostic procedure, though, if you don't have a compression gauge.

[Gary E]

Everything David said is right and I will only add to the list if what he sugests does not cure the problem.

I would start with a GOOD inline fuel filter, your gunk in the tank could still have a little stuff in the line and a good filter and water separator are a must.

Your photo shows a carb that was never on a Crown or Ace. All I ever saw was Zenith updraft carbs, heavy cast iron body with flame arrester screen all mounted under the manifold, so you may have something diferent there and it may be the reason the engine will not start right up.

Check the points in the distributor for correct gap and if the plugs are questionable, install new ones.

If after the squirt of oil in each cylinder the engine does start right up, consider at least a valve job if a compression test shows out of spec, trying to remember the spec but CRS has set in and I dont.

By the way, it;s not a "V", these are Flat Head inline engines and were made long before Chrysler Corp made a V8 and were found in cars and trucks made in the '40's to the early '50's and as late as the late 50's as industrial engines.

Good luck

[ 07-19-2005, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: Gary E ]

[nedL]

My thought on the carburetor too. I've never seen a down draft style on a flat head Chrysler.
Around this part of the world they were all of the up draft style, like this http://i15.ebayimg.com/02/i/04/0a/54/f4_1_b.JPG
I would probably consider yours a significant improvement, for both fuel efficiency and safety. It won't dump gasoline in the bilge when it floods.
Nice clean good looking engine. smile.gif

[Mike Maher]

Hi David, Gary and Ned,

Many thanks for the advice. We will certainly work our way through the ideas you have given us.

I should tell you we are suspicious about the lead that goes from the battery to the starter motor. It looks flat in parts and makes us think it may be damaged...so that is on the agenda for change. We had the engine checked for compression when we bought it and we were told it was fine on all cylinders but one which was "marginally" down but not enough to worry about.

It doesn't really surprise me that it has a non standard carb but it's good to hear you guys suggesting ours could be a better option.

I took the boat out yesterday and she started after three tries with newly charged batteries...I could live with that.
I must say she is as beautiful to drive as she is to look at. The engine noise is not at all bad (we plan to increase what sound insulation there is) and it runs very smoothly. It performs very well at an idle speed...and moves the boat from standstill without stalling.

I have to say from someone who didn't like the idea of a petrol engine in a boat I am fast being converted. I kind of like the thought of the boat being as original as possible. Once we have the starting sorted I don't think I will be pushing for a change to diesel.

Regards

[Gary E]

I should tell you we are suspicious about the lead that goes from the battery to the starter motor. It looks flat in parts and makes us think it may be damaged...so that is on the agenda for change. My how we all take things for granted. Yes, the wire from the battery to the starter must be a heavy duty one to carry all the current required to turn the starter motor, and dont forget the ground wire. Both should be as short as possible, heavy duty, and make sure the connections are clean and tight at both ends. Make sure the battery is fully charged as any load on the battery will diminish the power and voltage supplied to the ignition system, if that happens you get low power spark and hard or non starting.

Your carb should do fine, it's not like you just pulled it out of a box and slapped it on there and said..umm letz try this...

[nedL]

Mike, If you should have a chance for another picture I'd be interesetd in seeing a better shot of the left side of the engine. I'm curious about how the carburetor & intake manifold are configured (it must be kind of interesting to move things out from under the exhaust manifold). Those flat head sixes are nice smooth running engines, aren't they. - Ned

[Brad Lustig]

I've got pretty much the same engine in my '48 Dodge. Glad you got her running Mike. These flatties are good engines and don't take much to get them running or keep them running. I was wondering about the battery. On a lot of the cars with flat 6s, it was a 6volt positive ground system. Usually, the car will start and run on negative ground, but that may be something you want to check out. Remember I'm speaking as an outsider talking about car engines. Also, all of the cars had downdraft carbs. Usually either a Stromber or Carter. Someone may have been having problems with the updraft and put on a downdraft. You may want to check back in at the P15-D24 site and let them know how you're coming along. I know they'd be interested to hear you got her running.
P15-D24 forum (http://merc583.addr.com/cgi-bin/webbbs/webbbs_config.pl)

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

All good advice here. The fuel filter should be a water/gas separator canister type, but anything is better than nothing.

Any wiring that looks bad... probably is. New spark plug wires, new points and condenser, new coil and plugs... It's well worth doing on a boat that relies on it's engine ;)

great old motor by the way... and the Crown and Royal were too. I have a soft spot for the old Crown. Bulletproof. smile.gif