Right of Way

[gert]

Not that I have had TOO close an encounter; just in the right neighbourhood:

Who has right of way, a small sailboat or float plane?

[S/V Laura Ellen]

I had a similar experience in your part of the country (Shawigan Lake). Landed right beside me. Didn't hear it coming until it was real close. Scared the CR## out of me.

Who has the right of way probably doesn't matter much if you tangled with a float plane. Something about the spinning prop makes me think that you'd lose the fight and not be around to discuss who was right.:D

[John E Hardiman]

Not that I have had TOO close an encounter; just in the right neighbourhood:

Who has right of way, a small sailboat or float plane?

Depends on where you were and wether he was airborne. Generally, the onus is on him.

Rule 18(e):


A seaplane on the water shall, in general, keep well clear of all vessels and avoid impeding their navigation. In circumstances, however, where risk of collision exists, she shall comply with the Rules of this Part.

Edit to add:

You responsibility come into play if it is a designated seaplane landing lane. Rules 8(f), 9(b), and 10(j) may apply.

[uncas]

Which one is out of power or under power (ed).

[BrianW]

Sea planes are at the low end of the totem pole, but you wouldn't know it from watching them taxi around the harbor.

I don't think they know it. ;)

[uncas]

The greater mass wins.

[Thorne]

Herman Munster had it right --

Grandpa: "Herman, when approaching an intersection, who has the right of way?"
Herman: "The guy with the biggest car!"
Grandpa: "Nope--that's only in California!"

http://www.pscelebrities.com/psimages/alhead2.jpg


Seriously, I always thought that, once the plane has landed, they were just like other powerboats...

[Lew Barrett]

My experience with seaplanes (not speaking of Alaska; don't know the deal there) has always been that they seem to exersize extreme care and consideration (talking about Lake Union now) either when landing or maneuvering on the lake for take off. Never seen one really do anything stupid, and the same holds for most of the holes we crawl into up here that are served by them. But man, those Beavers are LOUD on take off, and the Otters are worse.

[Nicholas Carey]

Seaplanes are supposed to generally give way. However, a spinning airplang propeller backed by several hundred horsepower carries a certain right-of-way all its own :D

[BrianW]

They're all loud, but I find a C-185 the most annoying.

Speaking of Beavers and boats, here's some old picture I posted before...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BrianW/Flying%20in%20Alaska/small%20pics/P9200058.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BrianW/Flying%20in%20Alaska/small%20pics/P9200052.jpg

[Wild Wassa]

If doubt exists, as to who has the right of way, all vessels must assume that they are the burdened vessel.

There can also be, specific waterway regulations that can override Colregs. On Lake Burley Griffin here in the ACT there is a specific lake ordinance that states, kayaks, canoes and rowboats must give way to all vessels without exception. Since very few paddlers know the Colregs or the rules of the road and few if any, know our lake ordinance, I assume that any boat that I'm in, is the burdened vessel, when approaching these dudes.

Here is a perfect example of a person without any knowledge of our local lake ordinance rowing into the middle of a race for slow trailables. It doesn't look like a race ... just a drift around a lake (but that is beside the point the winter series was very dull, but not as dull as being on a slow trailable boat). The Sonata is taking evasive action (it is, evasive action in slo-mo).


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid214/p4c1cdae60fb87d5f3c29ca9484f3f5e9/ecfd5269.jpg

Warren.

[George Roberts]

I don't see the rowboat causing any "right of way" problem. It certainly has time to adjust course if need be.

[Larry P.]

New reels catch fish so purchase some.

not under command
restricted in manuverability
constrained by draft
fishing (trawling not hook and line)
sailboat
power boat
seaplane

[uncas]

Now in St. Micheals, there is a guy who put a glder and engine on his dinghy. Noise...the noise but he actually got off the water without hitting anything. I have no idea whre he landed...I'm sure it was not some parkinglot but...I wonder how he was able to not hit anything.

[Wild Wassa]

"I don't see the rowboat causing any "right of way" problem."

... because I wrote "into the middle of a race," I should have said, amongst the fleet. There were 20 other boats in the race not just these tailed off plodboats. Also the camera's wide angle perspective doesn't show how close the boats really are or just were.

When the wind got up, as it did within moments, the rowboat found herself in no man's land. At least, the rowboat had a passenger as the lookout.

Even in a drifter, have you seen the speed of an Elloit 7 or a Thompson? There is no way this elderly rower could have reacted, it was all up to the race boat Skippers to cover for him.

Warren.

[paladin]

in Alaska, bears and other such critters have the right of way.....even over floatplanes.....just ask a charter pilot named Lynwood Marshall...(it cost him a C-185)
Floatplanes on Lake Hood have right of way.....it's a seaplane port.
and anyone that doesn't believe a mad moose is dangerous.....somewhere I have piks of Citabria with one float sunk..punctured by moose antlers..

[BrianW]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BrianW/Sitka/deersinthewater.jpg

[Paul Girouard]

Sort of looks like that deer is towing that boat, ain't that illegal up there , two deer power:eek:

[George Roberts]

Wild Wassa ---

I see a number of sailboats sitting at rest on the water. They are certainly not underway.

How much "right of way" are the sail boats entitled to?

I would suggest that the sail boats have an obligation to not increase their speed or change their heading when the wind comes up.

[Larry P.]

Any boat not anchored or moored is underway. Legally even a boat aground is undeyway. Study the Col regs George.

[Wild Wassa]

George the boats are underway, do you notice that the sails are full ... no sails are luffing, no boats are at anchor ... and Larry said it first.

"How much "right of way" are the sail boats entitled to?"

All boats have an obligatiuon to keep clear and follow the rules of the road. It isn't a quantitative distance (powerboat obligations are different and specific). You could miss me by 6" and I wouldn't care too hoots, if being close does not cause me to sail in an unseaman like way, whereas other skippers screem blue murder if you get within several boat lengths of them.

"I would suggest that the sail boats have an obligation to not increase their speed or change their heading when the wind comes up."

George, I agree. but in this case, and in the earlier post (above) about the unusual ordinance that applies to Lake Burley Griffins, says that all kayaks, canoes and rowboats must give way to all other vessels without exception. I give way all who are not racing, if their intentions are unclear because the number one rule is ... avoid collision at all costs.

If I carried a sound signaling device on our lake, you would hear five short blasts on a regular basis, ... and the water police would have me for noise pollution.

Warren.

[Nicholas Carey]

Wild Wassa ---

I see a number of sailboats sitting at rest on the water. They are certainly not underway.COLREGS defines under way, in Rule 3(h), as:
The word "under way" means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore, or aground.

How much "right of way" are the sail boats entitled to?COLREGS doesn't give any vessel "right-of-way" (and in fact, goes out of its way to do so). One vessel is designated as the "stand-on" vessel, the other is designated as the "give-way" vessel. Each vessel has responsibilities (of which, see below).


I would suggest that the sail boats have an obligation to not increase their speed or change their heading when the wind comes up.The stand-on vessel is legally obligated to, under Rule 17 "keep her course and speed." The give-way vessel is obligated to "so far as possible, take early and substantial action to keep well clear." COLREGS goes on, under Rules 8(a) and (b) to require of the give-way vessel that the action taken "shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, be positive, made in ample time and with due regard to the observance of good seamanship...alteration of course and/or speed to avoid collision shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, be large enough to be readily apparent to another vessel observing visually or by radar; a succession of small alterations of course and/or speed should be avoided."

The Rules are quite clear on obligations of the different vessels.

The stand-on vessel, of course, has the option, Rule 17(a)ii, of "[taking] action to avoid collision by her maneuver alone, as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action in compliance with these Rules."

Further, the stand-on vessel is obligated to, Rule 17 (b), "When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision."

nobody has right-of-way on the water


The latter vessel may however take action to avoid collision by her maneuver alone, as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action in compliance with these Rules.(b)When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision.

[George Roberts]

I understand the col regs.

I was using the phrase "under way" in the sense of actually moving and being something the row boat should be concerned about.

Refering to the photo, sailboats, and rowboat in question. And the original commentary about rowboats being required to yield the right of way to sailboats. And to the comment if the wind picks up ...

It is foolish to argue right of way or burden to yield from the photo. There is no reason to yield or to detemine right of way as there is no contention for the same space at the same time.

If the wind picks up, rowboat lacks the ability to yield. This places the burden on the sailboats.

---

The law requiring the rowboat to yield in all cases is foolish. It requires one to perform acts which are impossible.