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Holzernes Boot
08-28-2006, 09:08 PM
I know this isn’t politically correct, but I just have to know. Am I alone in my feeling sick and tire of seeing the media parade out the impoverished, pathetic and helpless “victims” of last year’s hurricane Katrina once again? And tire of hearing how desperate those folks are after receiving and continuing to receive one of the largest out pouring of both corporate and private charity in America’s history?

How about some positive news of all the other Katrina and Rita “victims” that have somehow managed to rebuild and get their lives back in order instead of wallowing in liberal-pity and depending on this latest form of hurricane welfare!

Now you can all vent your hate mail my way!

Backfin
08-28-2006, 09:45 PM
This issue is tough for Americans cause there is no one to blame but ourselves. It was not the fault of terrorists, gays, illegal immigrants, liberals, neo-cons, Dutch, fundamentalist Christians, powerboaters, etc. We played chicken with Mother Nature and lost. It's an inconvenient truth.

S/V Laura Ellen
08-28-2006, 09:54 PM
For a lot of people in NO there is no positive news. For many their lives will never be back in order.

Elcoholic
08-28-2006, 10:00 PM
Why do I think you'd have made the exact same remark about the Holocaust in 1946? Misanthropic apathy = character self-assassination.

Bruce Hooke
08-28-2006, 11:05 PM
Rebuilding not just one town but whole strings of towns, not to mention the city of New Orleans, virtually from the ground up, is a task of unbelievable proportions, so we should not expect this issue to go away any time soon. In addition, there is the added problem that we need to figure out not just how to rebuild these communities (or if there are some that should not be rebuilt), but also what can be done to prevent something similar from happening in the future.

If you are sick of "sob stories" in the media maybe the problem is the media outlets you are choosing. The really important issues are less telegenic but much more meaty and important. Examples include the debate about what should be done to rebuild the rapidly eroding Mississippi Delta, which in the old days might have protect New Orleans; and the ways in which government policy (note that I am NOT talking about simple financial aid here) are succeeding or failing to effectivley foster the rebuilding of communities. From what I have read, this is a critical issue and a very difficult one. For example, how does a city deal with the problem that many of the people who want to return were in rental housing, which is now in very short supply (and thus expensive) and likely to remain so for many years to come unless there is conserted action on the part of the government to foster the rebuilding of affordable rental housing. Also, how does someone decide if they want to rebuild their home until they know if the city plans to retain their neigborhood, but how does that city make that decision until they know how many people plan to return to that neighborhood.

PeterSibley
08-28-2006, 11:20 PM
I suspect there is a lot to learn from the whole NO situation, for the US and other countries .It is unlikely to be the last time a catastrophy of this type occurs.
Of paticular interest are the causes , the hydrology of flood plains ,what happens when towns are built on flood plains and protected by levees.

I am suprised at the relatively slow rebuilding ...are the insurance companies and govt .authourities still deciding whether to really rebuild or not ?

Ron Joslin
08-29-2006, 02:26 AM
There where other Hurricanes in 2005.

Bless the dead and pray for those lucky enough to be able to rebuild.

Arlene-June, Bret-June, Cindy-July, Dennis-July,Emily-July, Franklin-July, Gert-July, Harvy-Aug., Irene-Aug., Jose-Aug., Katrina-Aug., Lee-Aug., Maria-Sept.,Nate-Sept., Ophelia-Sept., Philippe-Sept., Rita-Sept., Stan- Oct., Tammy-Oct., Vince-Oct., Wilma-Oct., Alpha-Oct., Beta-Oct., Gamma-Nov.,Delta-Nov., Epsilon-Dec., Zeta-Jan..

I survived the north wall of the eye of hurricane Frances as it came ashore just north of Vero-Beach Florida the night of September 4, 2004. We all (my family) lived, but our condo will not be ready to live in until the first part of 2007. Recovery takes a long time.

As far as Katrina and NO goes ,I think IMHO,that CNN, read that as Communist News Network should shame them selfs for the way they reported on Katrina. :mad:

Phillip Allen
08-29-2006, 04:10 AM
The news industry is like a circus..."Hurry, Hurry, Step right up, She walks, She talks, She crawls on her belly like we do!!!" And we step right up we do and lay our money down like the clowns we are.

However, the pathetic "news" industry is a separate issue from the disaster in New Orleans...it is very present for those trying to deal with it.

ishmael
08-29-2006, 04:22 AM
It's understandable that Katrina and the displaced people, their lives, would be showcased for a few days here. The ongoing saga that is the rebuild will, as Bruce says, be with us for another decade.

I'd like to hear more tough talk about what and how. Some parts of that whole coast should NOT be rebuilt. Sorry, you don't build McMansions in the path of hurricanes and flood waters if you can avoid it. You surely don't insure them with federal money.

On the outer reaches of Cape Cod there used to be an understanding between the ocean and the human squatters. You build, I take away. So they built simple, expendable, shacks, and didn't expect all the comforts of the Ritz. People went there because it was wild and unpredictable.

I know, this doesn't fit with the model of build it big so we can tax the hell out of it, but it makes much more sense in a hurricane flood zone.

Whatever else gets past this hapless, corrupt Congress, it should be limits on federally backed insurance for these areas.

PeterSibley
08-29-2006, 04:30 AM
Whatever else gets past this hapless, corrupt Congress, it should be limits on federally backed insurance for these areas.

I don't know how your system works Ish but there appear to be a large number of people down that way looking at spending the rest of their lives in trailer parks.

Is there some way of compensating /assisting people who'se sole asset is their land and now non existant house ...but who are not being allowed to rebuild ?

ishmael
08-29-2006, 04:46 AM
Peter,

I'm no expert, but as I understand it there's a mix of private and federal insurance on those homes. Some of the private insurers are trying to weasel out of it, and that's not right. But what about the future? I've travelled that coast, and it was full of two thousand square foot homes, chockablock, along the strand, and inland a bit, in places.

It's a difficult adustment, but maybe people shouldn't be building this way there? Granted, it's nice. The waves, the stars, the ambience. But you can get that camping, fer Christ's sake!

I'm not sure the answer, but the government bailing out poor insurance choices isn't it. I hope it stops. I'd like to see the strand revert to wild, but then I'm a radical.

PeterSibley
08-29-2006, 04:53 AM
Perhaps sufficent cash to buy in another city ?

PeterSibley
08-29-2006, 04:58 AM
Perhaps sufficent cash to buy in another city ?

JTA
08-29-2006, 05:41 AM
This situation is much to close to my life at the moment to coment on, however I am intensly interested in what everyone thinks about this.
I am also tempted to start another pole, "How many people think New Orleans was the only place that was damaged?"

Jack T

Phillip Allen
08-29-2006, 05:45 AM
This situation is much to close to my life at the moment to coment on, however I am intensly interested in what everyone thinks about this.
I am also tempted to start another pole, "How many people think New Orleans was the only place that was damaged?"

Jack T

Just so...

ishmael
08-29-2006, 05:59 AM
Just so...? Wazat mean?

mmd
08-29-2006, 06:02 AM
I wonder how all those folks in Banda Aceh and Phuket are making out after that terrible tsunami wiped out their cities & towns. Don't hear much on the news about them...

The "normal" forms of media have a very short and somewhat skewed attention span, unfortunately. Let's all hope that they don't have much new to report on regarding hurricane damage this season.

Rick Starr
08-29-2006, 06:14 AM
We, many of us, led merrily along by the likes of CNN, have put aside the notion that surviving such disasters is a good, galvanizing, strengthening thing.

I've lived through 4 major hurricanes now, each more powerful than Katrina; lost roofs in 3 of them, and I am the stronger and wiser for it. Our islands have rebuilt, with some small help from FEMA but mainly on our own because West Indians are pretty proud, to their everlasting credit.

Our island will NEVER be the same as it was before Hugo, which was far stronger when it hit here than when it did such devastation to the mainland. This is unquestionably a good thing, however. Far less common is the quaint, overhanging flat-roofed tropical shanty; reliable and save generators with up-to-code wiring are the rule, not the exception; shuttering is built into new construction and on and on. During storm season now there is a strong sense of community that only survivors of such events can appreciate.

I absolutely loathe the pandering.

PeterSibley
08-29-2006, 06:28 AM
I wonder how all those folks in Banda Aceh and Phuket are making out after that terrible tsunami wiped out their cities & towns. Don't hear much on the news about them...

The "normal" forms of media have a very short and somewhat skewed attention span, unfortunately. Let's all hope that they don't have much new to report on regarding hurricane damage this season.

Interestingly ,here in Australia we get Aceh, Shri Lankan,Thai , updates reasonably regularly. We are in the region though.

As for NO and the rest of the coast ,yes we have had a fair coverage of it ...NO had the most interest ,most people and famous ....but there were a few newsreels on the countryside and other areas along the coast .We have 2 networks that give good overseas coverage .

Will Wheeler
08-29-2006, 06:49 AM
I found this piece extremely powerful, and probably explains why some people would like to forget about it.

(from dailykos.com)

-----------------------------

We Were Americans
by DarkSyde
Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 04:26:20 AM PDT
I suppose the tone was set five years ago, in the aftermath of 9-11 and in the build-up to Iraq, but it took a natural disaster for the horrible reality to really sink in: Our White House and Republican led Congress are rife with incompetent, dangerous clowns. But make no mistake, the lingering, bungled response to Katrina was not solely due to incompetence, it's a stark illustration of neoconservative ideology in action. And it's nowhere near done ravaging the country:


Rude Pundit--A year after the hurricane, the woman driving the Rude Pundit around told him, "At least the streets are passable," and that was true. We could drive up and down the miles and miles of streets where the storm's wreckage was still blatantly obvious. Yes, many homes were gutted, many more were for sale whatever state they were in, about one out of every twenty was rebuilt or in some stage of rebuilding, and so, so many were untouched since the storm, with a year of lawn overgrowth in the neverending Louisiana heat.

One year after the storm lashed the Gulf Coast, Biloxi is a wreck, Gulfport is in ruins, New Orleans is a ghost town of roach and rat infested debris, and hundreds of thousands of people have been scattered to the corners of the nation, forgotten, and left to fend for themselves. Stay the course? The course was never even set, much less embarked upon.

There are few denizens in the national disaster universe that give more warning of the coming human misery than a Hurricane. Katrina was predicted for years and could be seen from the surface of the moon for a week. It approached the coast at a slow jog. And yet, the White House and Department of Homeland Security would have us believe they were surprised. No doubt, in the next couple of weeks, the battered gulf coast will be glossed over, again, the victims, uncounted, forgotten, again, the promises made and unrequited, again. The neocons will conflate Katrina with 9-11 and steer the conversation away from the former and into the latter--as Kos said on Bill Mahr, "what else have they got?"

The victims of 9-11 lost their lives in a horrible tragedy that tuned into a political bonanza for GOP strategists, the dead and destitute left floating in Katrina's wake had the bad acumen to be casualties in a disaster that made the White House look bad.

I predict the anniversary of the worst natural disaster in decades will be quickly pre-empted by stirring speeches sung over the graves of 9-11 by meat puppets of the right clothed in designer suits and wearing somber, rehearsed expressions for the multitude of cameras. They will be read in carefully scripted, grave tones, in front of bronze statues of soldiers sacrificed and granite monuments to the dead of wars past, and they will be read mostly by those who never choked down a stale MRE in the desert heat or freezing cold.

I imagine in the not too distant future, Ph.D. dissertations and classes in political science will be devoted to analyzing how this crop of neocon miscreants lurched clumsily from one monstrous failure after another, and still held solidly onto a third of the electorate. Maybe the academics will figure it out. Part of me hopes someone will. For now, as one who has lived it, I find the phenomenon incomprehensible. When a co-worker defends Bush or Iraq or the handling of Katrina, I have to consciously try not to stare in open contempt, jaws agape, as a half dozen possible explanations for why they could be so sadly misled and yet so confident, wrestle with one another in the small part of my brain that insists on finding order in chaos.

I'll spare my readers pictures of dead bodies adrift in black water, or emaciated corpses languishing in brutal, humid heat. I'll not feature President Bush strumming the guitar and eating cake on vacation, while hundreds of thousands of American clung desperately to life, waiting for a rescue and a bullhorn moment that would never come. I'll not rant about Michael Chertoff or Dick Cheney slithering down to the disaster zone like reptiles only when the full political horror became apparent. Those are all stand alone topics in themselves.

Instead, I'd like to share with you images of nature's awesome fury and deadly glory below the fold, hosted graciously by Lindsay Beyerstein and Brent Rasmussen. In all her beauty and fatal capacity, these pictures will drive home the point that Mother Nature is a force that cannot be bargained with, she does not negotiate based on political desire, and she is unimpressed with catchy sound bites. Nature can only, at best, be understood, and perhaps predicted: And she can unite us.

That's the only benefit of national disasters, really the only possible good that can come from them for those of us who carry on, be they natural or of the man-made variety. The one tiny thread in the vast carpet of misery and death that accompanies any such event is that they can make us whole, remind us that we're all in this together, that we rise and fall as one nation, one people, from sea to shining sea: All of us, every man, women, and child, even children yet to be conceived. Because of 9-11 five years back and along the Gulf Coast a year ago, this nation was rightfully shocked and horrified. But swirling in those toxic clouds and polluted waters obscuring both New York City and New Orleans lurked a fleeting wisp of a silver lining. And let's never forget the price paid for it: on 9-11 almost 3000 Americans paid with their lives, put to death, most of them merely for showing up to work on time. At least 1400 Americans and counting lost their lives in Katrina because they couldn't pay for a ride out of town-- those bodies are still being recovered, some will never be found. But because of those losses, we were conjoined, one and all, at least for a day, like no other time since the gloomy days of Pearl Harbor, and the world stood shoulder to shoulder with us.

I saw it right here on Daily Kos as Katrina approached and struck. I witnessed it, as thousands of members opened up their hearts, their homes, and their wallets, before the storm even hit. Words cannot express how profoundly honored and proud I was and remain to this day, to have been a part of this community on that fateful weekend one year ago. I saw the same sentiment reflected on network news and heard it on radio programming, coming form virtually all sides of the political spectrum. I saw it on 9-11 and on 8-29.

Never to my knowledge have so many innocent American paid so dearly, twice, for such opportunity for a leader to stand up and unite our country, only to see our President and the Republican Congress, aided and abetted by Karl Rove and a gang of media shills and partisan think-tanks, seize those apocryphal moments and use them to divide us into warring camps for their selfish and short-sighted advantage. It's been five years of astonishing neocon ineptitude laced with a hefty dose of intentional malice, to a degree I would have not thought possible and would have handily dismissed as crazy, had someone tried to warn me beforehand. The lesson should have been freely obvious, but as it happens, the cost of our collective education has been incalculable: Those that detest government, divert funds from community projects into the coffers of billionaires and corporations, and avoid accountability, aren't terribly effective at governance. Katrina was a stellar example, only one of many, of what that kind of philosophy produces.

The reaction to both tragedies was in the end ineffective and divisive, and the crafty WH response was needlessly super-imposed on an already wounded nation. On those fateful days we were not Republicans, Democrats, we were not conservatives Vs. progressives; we were not partisan, we were not enemies: We were Americans.

LeeG
08-29-2006, 08:36 AM
smells like Dutch.
Did it cut into the JonBenet murder story too much for you,
or the excellent coverage of the GWOT in Bagdad and the status of US ground forces, or the developing oil regions of central asia/Kazakstan?

Bruce Hooke
08-29-2006, 10:41 AM
Peter (and others interested in the whole insurance issue),

As I understand it, we bascially have two or three very distinct situations going on as regards Federal Flood Insurance:

1. People whose houses were in officially designated "Flood Zones," which includes houses located near a beach, are typically required by the mortgage holder to carry flood insurance. Since flood insurance is too risky for individual insurance companies to take on, our Federal Government underwrites this insurance. So these homeowners should have been covered and should be able to rebuild, either in the same location or in a new location. It is certainly very reasonable to question, at least in some cases, whether they should be allowed to rebuild in the same location or whether, if they do, the Federal Government should be underwriting insurance for them. Of course a lot of complex questions come up when you start trying to figure out which land is "safe enough" and which isn't. In addition, if the land is deemed too dangerous to rebuild on then who pays for the additional loss the owner has suffered because now they have not just lost their home, they have effectively lost the very land they lived on?

2. Homeowners who were not in a designated Flood Zone can buy Flood Insurance but are not required to by the mortgage holder and often don't because they figure why should I if I am not in a Flood Zone. What fails to register with such homeowners is that flooding can take place in places that are not Flood Zones. A lot of houses that were damaged or destroyed by Katrina were not covered by Flood Insurance. These are the homeowners who are now stuck with ruined homes and no money to rebuild. Keep in mind that they may also probably have a mortgage to pay off on a home they can't live in. (This category also includes a few people who were in a Flood Zone but whose home was paid off so they were not required by a mortgage holder to buy Flood Insurance and decided not to.)

3. Then there are the people who did not own a home, who were renting their living space. Many of these people are also probably stuck in trailers. Renters could have bought Flood Insurance for their personal property, but were probably even less likely to do so than the home owners in #2 above. A lot of renters do not even have regular insurance on their personal property, let alone Flood Insurance. At least the renters do not have a mortgage on a useless home hanging around their necks, but they also probably do not have the resources that many home owners do for getting back onto their feet. Of course the renters may be in a better positon than the property owners to pick up and simply relocate to a new city and start over, but it is not easy to leave the city or town that has been home to you for your entire life and start over far from friends and family, and a city or town also needs the people who rent living space because these are the people who provide many of the basic services in a city (or a town).

Figment
08-29-2006, 12:00 PM
If the people of new orleans want to rebuild their chronically flood-prone city, that's their business. I just can't see why the federal government should bend over backward to assist.

George Roberts
08-29-2006, 12:03 PM
I believe that part of the problem is that there is too much planning going on.

It will be another year before the master plan is done.

---

FEMA should have had the power to declare property damaged beyond repair, the power to clear that property, and the power to grant building permits.

Now the streets are clear but private property is full of damaged property with the owners waiting for the master plan and the city waiting for court required time limits.

---

Perhaps some smart fellow will see the delay as a "taking" and ask for compensation.

Osborne Russell
08-29-2006, 12:12 PM
If the people of new orleans want to rebuild their chronically flood-prone city, that's their business. I just can't see why the federal government should bend over backward to assist.

Why did Thomas Jefferson negotiate the Louisiana Purchase, despite his opposition to every other effort of the United States to expand? Because the mouth of the Mississipi is vital to the economic and strategic security of the United States. That was true when "the United States" was hundreds of miles away. It was true before the Louisiana Purchase. It has been true every day since.

But the Reds, with their $125m/day on Iraq, and their earmarks -- are dedicated to enriching themselves first, and securing the nation, second, at best.

Bruce Hooke
08-29-2006, 12:13 PM
If the people of new orleans want to rebuild their chronically flood-prone city, that's their business. I just can't see why the federal government should bend over backward to assist.

One reason for the Federal Government to assist is because much of the middle of the country is depedant on the Port of New Orleans, even if they do not realize it, for everything from incoming oil to outgoing agricultural products, and it is pretty hard to run a port without people to run it.

Also, while New Orleans may be chronically flood-prone (i.e., at risk of flooding), just as LA is chronically earthquake-prone, it has been a long time (before Katrina) since New Orleans suffered serious flooding.

High C
08-29-2006, 12:35 PM
If the people of new orleans want to rebuild their chronically flood-prone city, that's their business. I just can't see why the federal government should bend over backward to assist.

Lots of history you don't seem to know.

The Federal government flooded New Orleans, directly, indirectly, any way you want to look at it. The leveeing of the Missisippi River, for the sake of national commerce, was the catalyst that put a decades long series of screwups into motion, which finally resulted in the inevitable.

To patch up the damage done to our coastline, the Corps of Engineers built a system of inadequate, porly designed levees to replace what nature had formerly provided, but was destroyed by their monkeying around with the river.

It didn't work. Do you see now why the Feds should "bend over backwards" to repair their damage?

And for those of you who still don't seem to understand the flood insurance program, the Federal government does not subsidize either the building, or the repair of "McMansions". The flood insurance program is SELF FUNDED by the massive premiums we policy holders pay. Further, the maximum amount of insurance available is $250,000, which is about what it costs to build a typical suburban home these days.

The Federal homeowners' bailout money which is finding its way here is going almost entirely to Bruce's #2 group above, to people who weren't required to have flood insurance, and didn't have the means or the good sense to buy it anyway. This group is composed primarily of poor to lower middle class folks. If anyone wants to gripe about the Federal money flowing in to assist homeowners, realize that that's who it's going to, the poor and lower middle class. It's not going to fat cats who live in mansions on the beach. :rolleyes:

Osborne Russell
08-29-2006, 12:45 PM
The federal government needs to be spending massive money in the delta, and the priorities are commerce and security. Many times more money than anyone dares to suggest in the current political circumstances.

Meanwhile they're building the Bridge to Nowhere, the Cowgirl Hall of Fame, the Iowa indoor rain forest, etc. etc.

This is shameful and vulgar apart from being a betrayal of the citizens of the delta region. We gambled, they lost.

One day, California will have its earthquake, and then deja vu all over again.

High C
08-29-2006, 01:10 PM
According to http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32972.pdf#search=%22federal%20flood%20insurance% 20program%22, that isn't precisely true. Some properties that were built prior to the enactment of the 1968 law are 'grandfathered in' to the system, and the premiums are subsidized. Furthermore, the program is authorized to borrow money from the Treasury in years when losses exceed the average... and must pay interest on that debt.

I suspect it would be a bit more truthful to say that the program does subsidize some property owners.... and over the long term average, is self funded... meaning that the owners of properties who are not subsidized are paying a higher premium than the average loss experience would require.

I didn't say that no home owners were subsidized by the program. I said that the program was not subsidized by taxpayers. The program pays its own way, and nothing you've posted indicates otherwise.

George Roberts
08-29-2006, 01:35 PM
I suppose that when global warming has melted the glaciers and so many more people are living below sea level the government should walk away from them...

The government is the people. We use the government to help people in trouble. In the long run we all should benefit.

And yes some people will always take advantage of the situation.

Holzernes Boot
08-29-2006, 04:20 PM
Why do I think you'd have made the exact same remark about the Holocaust in 1946? Misanthropic apathy = character self-assassination.

Ich würde nichts weniger von einem Liberalen erwarten.

Vielen Dank:D

Holzernes Boot
08-29-2006, 04:24 PM
For a lot of people in NO there is no positive news. For many their lives will never be back in order.

Strangely enough that only seems to be prevalent in the Big Easy. And not in any of the other cities, counties or parishes also affected from Texas to Florida – including the rest of Louisiana!:confused:

Phillip Allen
08-29-2006, 04:24 PM
Just so...? Wazat mean?

It means I agree with the post

Holzernes Boot
08-29-2006, 04:52 PM
I see that others are attuned to the real issue. Who is really responsible and accountable for a disaster - natural or otherwise?

If I build my house near an airport and a plane crashes into it, it is solely the airline’s fault?:confused:

If I build my house on a fault line and an earth quake destroys it, is it God’s fault? :confused:

If I live my entire life on public assistance in a government subsidized rental house in a known flood zone and make no provisions for any form of disaster, including purchasing low cost government provided flood insurance and my house floods because a incredibly large hurricane breaks a levee poorly maintained by the city, state and federal governments whose fault is it? Tough call?:confused:

It just seems amazing to me that hundreds of homes and lives are destroyed every year by natural and man-made disasters and none have gotten the extensive and prolonged coverage by the media as New Orleans. Would the coverage have been the same if a tornado had destroyed a poverty stricken city in the hills of Arkansas or Tennessee? Face it we only want to watch poor pathetic victims that are willing to weep on command in front of the cameras and moan endlessly about how tough they have it and how they need our help. :(

Every year hurricanes destroy hundreds of homes and leave hundreds of families homeless – 90% of those folks pick themselves up, dust off and get to work rebuilding their lives. Just for one week I would like to hear about these brave folks that took responsibility for their own lives.:o

PeterSibley
08-29-2006, 05:05 PM
If the people of new orleans want to rebuild their chronically flood-prone city, that's their business. I just can't see why the federal government should bend over backward to assist.

a very peculiar view of Governmental responsiblity and judging by the responses....fairly unusual.

bamamick
08-29-2006, 05:55 PM
stories, but most of them are not centered around New Orleans. New Orleans is a special case because the engineering failed. Many areas that would never have been flooded were underwater because the system put in place to protect the entire city failed. Areas of east New Orleans, miles from the lake, were underwater because of the series of canals that brought the water to them. It takes time to rebuild a system that has been in place for generations and was thought by most to be adequate.

Other points: Katrina is important to all Americans because a large percentage of Americans live near coastal waters. We did not lose just New Olreans in Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, we lost a stretch of coast from eastern Texas to the southwestern shore of Mobile Bay. About 300 miles of coastland lost all habitable buildings. Schools, hospitals, churchs. The Gulf fishing fleet is gone, taking with it a way of life that has carried on for 300 years. Entire populations have dispersed. An entire culture is dissappearing.

Why should anyone care? Well, for one thing, the Gulf Coast area has added quite a bit to the American melting pot. Food, literature, art, music. I have German friends who cried when they heard that New Olreans was destroyed. That tells me that it must mean something. Secondly, we are Americans. We are America. We are a part of you whether you want us or not. Besides that, if it happened here it can happen anywhere up and down the coast.

When there are natural disasters elsewhere in the country you rarely hear of anyone asking why should we have to be involved in shoring things up again. Fires, earthquakes, tornados, blizzards. Every part of this country is affected by natural diasaters from time to time. Only after hurricanes do you hear this 'why should we have to pay?' attitude. As High C has said, your tax dollars are not going to rebuild beachfront mansions. We have insurance that we have to pay that takes care of it up to a point, and there's the rub. For Peter and those of you who don't know, the reason that there are such stories of misery coming out of New Orleans is that most of the people who you see complaining about not being taken care of are on public assistance, and since those buildings will have to be completely rebuilt because of worries about mold in the framing, compromise wiring and plumbing, etc., it will be years and years if they are able to return at all.

Those people who did own homes and whose insurance will not cover the cost of rebuilding are stuck with exactly what Peter asked: property that they either will or possibly will not be able to rebuild on, and a check. Most of these people are taking their checks and moving on with their lives. They'll worry about what to do with their land later.

Anyway, that's enough from me. New Orleans looks like it's going to settle in to become a city of about 300,000 people. South Louisiana and coastal Mississippi, where the real physical damage was done by the winds, will take at least 10 years to recover but I believe that they eventually will recover. Camille did as much damage and they came back from Camille. You may get tired of hearing about this. We all get tired of the news and weather people overdramatizing things, but in this case, on the one year anniversary, I think that it's needed. Hurricanes hit us around here every year. But this one was different. This one killed not only people, it killed a way of life for a large portion of the population. If that's not newsworthy I am not sure that I know what is.

Mickey Lake

Phillip Allen
08-29-2006, 06:08 PM
Thanks...we needed that

LeeG
08-29-2006, 06:15 PM
Every year hurricanes destroy hundreds of homes and leave hundreds of families homeless – 90% of those folks pick themselves up, dust off and get to work rebuilding their lives. Just for one week I would like to hear about these brave folks that took responsibility for their own lives.:o

and if ONE hurricane displaces 100,000's of people causing 100Billions of damage it makes more news than ones that destroy hundreds of homes.

Kind of like Iraq is still news, the consequences of Katrina continue because of the scale of the damage.

JTA
08-29-2006, 07:10 PM
Thank you for taking the time to write that Mickey. With your permission I would like to keep a copy in case anything happens to this thread.

Jack

bamamick
08-29-2006, 07:26 PM
Forgive the misspelling. I never use spell check :]!

Mickey Lake

Figment
08-29-2006, 07:46 PM
I know a bit of history. I know why the city grew where it did when it did. I just don't see why it makes sense TODAY.

I understand completely why the reigon is vital to national interests. I just don't see how the restoration of what was predominantly a tourist-town is such a critical component of that. You can't truthfully say that the shipping infrastructure and other components so vital to that national interest MUST be located RIGHT THERE. Ask yourself what your thoughts might be if ANY other hundredbilliondollar government project were to be located in such a fragile spot.

Going microcosmic for a moment: The house I grew up in was located 75' from a stream. Though the water VERY seldom approached the house, we considered it foolish to keep anything of value in the basement.

Bruce Hooke
08-29-2006, 08:05 PM
Figment,

What you might want to ask yourself is where, reasonably, could the port be moved to and what would it cost to recreate all that infrastructure to somewhere else. Remember, we are not just talking about docks and cranes, we are talking things like roads, railroads and pipelines. If your idea is to move the port up river there might well be problems with having to undertake massive dredging to allow appropriate access by seagoing ships.

This, of course, is just one side of the whole issue. I feel like Mickey Lake's answer really addresses what are the much more important reasons for rebuilding New Orleans, but you seem to be focused on the port infrastructure.

Phillip Allen
08-29-2006, 08:09 PM
I know a bit of history. I know why the city grew where it did when it did. I just don't see why it makes sense TODAY.

I understand completely why the reigon is vital to national interests. I just don't see how the restoration of what was predominantly a tourist-town is such a critical component of that. You can't truthfully say that the shipping infrastructure and other components so vital to that national interest MUST be located RIGHT THERE. Ask yourself what your thoughts might be if ANY other hundredbilliondollar government project were to be located in such a fragile spot.

Going microcosmic for a moment: The house I grew up in was located 75' from a stream. Though the water VERY seldom approached the house, we considered it foolish to keep anything of value in the basement.

Start with a little sympathy then move on to empathy...it is good for your soul and for a better understanding and the attendant wisdom

ishmael
08-29-2006, 08:14 PM
As pointed out, the ports of New Orleans and Mobile will be kept up and running because they are vital. But the thousands of beach homes, many of them second or retirement homes, are a differerent matter, and constitute a large chunk of the insured property.

Moving them inland, away from potential storm surge, should happen, preferably because of market forces. If you can't insure a half million dollar property because no one in their right mind would insure it, you won't build it. If the interests that be, because they collect the mortgage and the tax payments, get their way we'll rebuild folly.

How about making much of that strand a national seashore? Buy the property owners out and encourage them to build inland a few miles. Not exactly market driven, but I can see this as a provenance of good government. It's madness to rebuild expensive in that zone.

Grouchy_Old_Coot
08-29-2006, 08:15 PM
Thank you for taking the time to write that Mickey. With your permission I would like to keep a copy in case anything happens to this thread.

Jack



Really Jack?

Mickey spoke the truth but I have read the threads posted here and I do not believe anyone is casting dispersion on the importance of the Gulf and Eastern coastal areas. I believe the point of the thread is - why has 90% of the news been about only one city? I am sure many folks think 90% of the damage was done in that one city – that frankly is BS!

If the news would concentrate a proportional amount of the time on the lion's share of the cities that were actually damaged by the hurricane, it would be a very uplifting story of how Americans helping Americans can overcome any devastation and rebuild their lives! (That is sans-New Orleans).

But maybe that is why they don’t cover the positive side – then there would be nobody to save!:rolleyes:


That’s my 2 cents.

JTA
08-29-2006, 08:52 PM
Old Coot,
(That what the grandkids call my dad by the way)

I'm not sure what your point is with the question. I appreciate Mickey's point of view and I like the way he said it.
The eye of Katrina passed within 6-8 miles of my house. We were on the eastern edge, 5 miles north of the Gulf. We had 8.5' of water and crap and mud inside my house. We carried everything we owned and dumped it on the street for trucks to haul away. We tried not to bitch and started rebuilding our lives. We live in Mississippi.

glenallen
08-29-2006, 08:57 PM
Media coverage does not equal or mirror reparations. Media coverage is entertainment of the worst kind and enrichment of the media. The media does not give a rat's ass about New Orleans. Katrina equals "So You Think You Can Dance", 'Poor Little Ramsey Girl", "Mel Gibson". Depends on what day it is what the show is.

ishmael
08-29-2006, 09:13 PM
"Media coverage does not equal or mirror reparations."

Reparations? Are you sure of that word? It implies that by some status you automatically deserve a recompense by a governing body.

Look, I'm sorry this disaster happened to folks living along the gulf coast. But I feel no compunction to pay you. Whatever happened to,"you pay your money, you take your chances?"

Whatever happens down there over the next decade, reparations aren't in my vocabulary. I'm all for helping folks get back on their feet, and much of that is coming through private not governmental means. But the notion that you deserve some payment, simply because you are without means currently, doesn't cut the mustard.

Reparations?

glenallen
08-29-2006, 09:32 PM
I may have chosen the wrong word. I take reparation to mean "repair" or "rebuild". I do not take it to mean rebuild YOUR city at MY expense.
The beginning theme of this thread was "Tired of watching media coverage of Katrina victims and destruction".

My post was only to express my view that the media will USE anything and anybody for its own ends, TV minutes.
People who build upon the sand.......foolish.
People who REBUILD upon the sand......DOUBLE foolish.
People who build upon the sand below sea level....dumb, bumb, dumb!

PeterSibley
08-30-2006, 03:31 AM
Well Gleneagle you're going to be in "I told you so heaven" when the San Andreas fault finally lets go.A bit of compassion isn't that hard .

Mickey ...thanks .

Elcoholic
08-30-2006, 10:59 AM
[QUOTE=Holzernes Boot]Ich würde nichts weniger von einem Liberalen erwarten.

Character self-assassination in two languages is not required. We get it.......even we arch-conservatives.

(This guy would do well in the Vic Morrow role in Twilight Zone: The Movie.)

Texas Boater
08-30-2006, 11:58 AM
Are we missing the point?
As I read it, Hozernes Boot is asking about the current media coverage of the Katrina anniversary. IMHO - the media loves to concentrate on those who cannot or will not help themselves, which sends a very negative message to others outside of the affected area and the rest of the world. It's too bad they don't spend time covering folks like Thread Killer, who represents how strong, charitable and empathetic we Americans are.

New Orleans is only a representative of the condition many cities currently find themselves in. I have lived in New Orleans, San Francisco, San Antonio and near a few other "tourist towns” and the one thing they all have in common is that they are very good a covering the things they don't want the outsiders to see (like poverty, neglect and city mismanagement). I see this as a wakeup call for the rest of the U.S. - But heck what do I know.

troutman
08-30-2006, 12:05 PM
People's lives and homes destroyed "wallowing in Liberal self pity". What can one say but drop dead?

but, well done. Normally the little club ignores you until you have 5,000 posts.

Holzernes Boot
08-30-2006, 12:06 PM
[quote=Holzernes Boot]Ich würde nichts weniger von einem Liberalen erwarten.

Character self-assassination in two languages is not required. We get it.......even we arch-conservatives.

(This guy would do well in the Vic Morrow role in Twilight Zone: The Movie.)

I am sorry I thought you were the one doing the character assassination!:(
The thing about assassinations there are always two asses (ass ass inations) involved!:D

Meerkat
08-30-2006, 12:09 PM
But the notion that you deserve some payment, simply because you are without means currently, doesn't cut the mustard.

Reparations?You should have watched Nova last night. It turns out that several of the walls failed in Category 1 conditions due to faulty engineering by the Army COE. They have admitted that some of the failures were their fault, therefore it does become the responsibility of the government to make those who lost due to this whole again.

Gary E
08-30-2006, 12:11 PM
I I am suprised at the relatively slow rebuilding ...are the insurance companies and govt .authourities still deciding whether to really rebuild or not ?

One of the most powerfull REPUBLICAN US Senators is having to SUE his insurance Co to try to recover $$ on his insur policy. Can you imagine what a Joe6pack would be going through?

In a nut shell, the insur co's are saying it was a flood and your not covered, so the govmt says, we didnt start the flood, aint our problem.

Now as for rebuilding?... lots of problems there too, IF you rebuild, will the govmt either city or state or federal allow you to live there?... permits and lots of etc's etc ....IF you rebuild will an insur co cover you? they are running away from Fla as fast as they can why will they stepup to cover you in La, Miss, or Ala?

Figment
08-30-2006, 01:29 PM
.IF you rebuild will an insur co cover you? they are running away from Fla as fast as they can why will they stepup to cover you in La, Miss, or Ala?

I don't want to hijack, but have FL real estate prices begun to reflect this yet?

I have an uncle in FL who's been desperately trying to unload a property for 6 months with zero success. My inlaws were retirement-shopping in FL last month and had to completely re-figure their price range when they factored in the insurance.

Elcoholic
08-30-2006, 02:08 PM
Missing the point? I think not. His use of quotation marks tells the REAL story of his intolerance, of which I have expressed MY intolerance. Possibly, simple noun substitution will help illustrate MY point. I paraphrase:

I know this isn’t politically correct, but I just have to know. Am I alone in my feeling sick and tire of seeing the media parade out the impoverished, pathetic and helpless “victims” of last year’s DEATH CAMP LIBERATIONS once again? And tire of hearing how desperate those folks are after receiving and continuing to receive one of the largest out pouring of both corporate and private charity in EUROPEAN history?

How about some positive news of all the other TREBLINKA and AUSCHWITZ “victims” that have somehow managed to rebuild and get their lives back in order instead of wallowing in liberal-pity and depending on this latest form of REFUGEE welfare!

The POINT of his post is clear. Is it a coincidence that he speaks German?

QUOTE: "Now you can all vent your hate mail my way!"

Whether an invitation or permission, I'm appreciative of having been able to accomodate you.

Jan S. Hadley, Conservative WASP

Holzernes Boot
08-30-2006, 09:33 PM
Missing the point? I think not. His use of quotation marks tells the REAL story of his intolerance, of which I have expressed MY intolerance. Possibly, simple noun substitution will help illustrate MY point. I paraphrase:

I know this isn’t politically correct, but I just have to know. Am I alone in my feeling sick and tire of seeing the media parade out the impoverished, pathetic and helpless “victims” of last year’s DEATH CAMP LIBERATIONS once again? And tire of hearing how desperate those folks are after receiving and continuing to receive one of the largest out pouring of both corporate and private charity in EUROPEAN history?

How about some positive news of all the other TREBLINKA and AUSCHWITZ “victims” that have somehow managed to rebuild and get their lives back in order instead of wallowing in liberal-pity and depending on this latest form of REFUGEE welfare!

The POINT of his post is clear. Is it a coincidence that he speaks German?

QUOTE: "Now you can all vent your hate mail my way!"

Whether an invitation or permission, I'm appreciative of having been able to accomodate you.

Jan S. Hadley, Conservative WASP

Ladies and gentlemen I think I may have unknowingly hit a raw nerve ending or a guilty conscience. Frankly it doesn’t matter which.
Some “people” just take “themselves” way too “seriously”!:D

Auf Wiedersehen (oh no the German language!)

FYI: The German language is prominently spoken in Argentina, Austria, Belgium, Italy, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Namibia, Romania and Switzerland in addition to Germany. And a great deal of the US. Your comments have not only shown your intolerance and ignorance but also your overall prejudice to an entire group of people you obviously know nothing about!

Elcoholic
08-31-2006, 09:13 PM
In order to avoid accusations of having engaged an unarmed man in a battle of wits, I forfeit to the obtuse. You’re a winner, loser.

glenallen
09-01-2006, 10:43 AM
Well Gleneagle you're going to be in "I told you so heaven" when the San Andreas fault finally lets go.A bit of compassion isn't that hard .

Mickey ...thanks .

No, Peter, I'll be horrified just as you will be. Just as I was horrified watching New Orleans a year ago.
It is my compassion that inspires me to tell those people to move away from the lowlands and San Andreas fault. I never expected anybody to listen.