Bottom Painting Advice

[WoodenBNut]

I am in the process of the restoration of a 1965 Chris Craft 35' Sea Skiff. This boat is marine plywood lapstrake over white oak framing. This particualr question is related to the bottom restoration. I have removed all existing bottom paint, replaced part of the keel that had some rot. So now the bottom is ready for paint. My plan was to (1) treat areas near the keel (existing and new) with Smith's CPES. Then (2)
paint the inside bilge, outside keel/keelson with Red Lead primer paint(from the Kirby Paint Co). Then (3)caulk any areas That needed it below the water line with Interlux Brown Seam Compound. Then (4) Apply a primercoat of bottom paint(Interlux Fiberglass Bottomkote thinned and then (5) apply 3 or 4 coats of the Fiberglass Bottomkote.
I was thinking of using the Red Lead paint as a guard against future rot. But I am not sure if it is a good idea to use the Red Lead paint or not?? If I use the Red Lead paint after the Smith's CPES and before the bottom paint, will I have a problem with the adhesion of the Interlux antifouling bottom paint to the Red Lead primer? ***Interlux does tell you that you need to prime any bare wood with primer paint before using their Brown Seam Compund. I have heard that the Red Lead primer paint is an excellent rot preventative, so I'm thinking it would be something to use in the bilge & keelson/keel areas. But, if Red Lead was used I would think one would have to be very careful in the future when preparing for a repaint due to the toxicity of the Red Lead.
Thanks for the advice

[Matt J.]

It's red lead primer after all. Rarus has red lead on the wood directly (I don't want my wood sealed) with Kirby's bottom paint over that... I truly hate to say it, but I'll not buy bottom paint from Kirby's again. I love their other paints, and will buy them whenever possible, but their bottom paint was far and away incapable of keeping our bottom reasonably clean. other boats that sailed far less had virtually no growth, just slime at worst, whereas Rarus had a thick heavy carpet - marina owner said it was one of the worst bottoms he'd cleaned in a couple years. :(

Red lead's good stuff - it was still between growth and hull even where the bottom paint was not.

[WoodenBNut]

Matt J.
Thanks for the advice. I didn't know that Kirby's had a bottom paint. But after your advice, I think I'm going to stick with Interlux's Fibergalss Bottomkote(I'm using their 999 gold color).
I was thinking of using marine Kirby's topside paint for the above the waterline hull. However, I sent for Kirby's sample color chart. The quality of their color chart was really bad. The paint samples had pits in it and didn't look good at all. But I have heard that their topside paints are really good. I was either going to use Kirby topside on the hull or Interlux Brightside.
If I hear you right, you are saying that you like Kirby better for topside.

[Matt J.]

I've tried Kirby's (I use them) and I've tried Brightsides (I hate them)... I don't know about the color chart, but the paints I've used have outlasted the Brightsides my wife used, te color is better, and the overall coverage quality and appearance is far superior to Brightsides. Kirby's bottom paint, for some reason, was just no good. I am ordering more topsides paint next week or so, and I intend to ask George about it.

Marina owner recommends bottomcote I think, and that's what I'll use this spring for the bottom, and Kirby's for decks, bulwalks, topsides, mast tops, and light boxes.

[ 04-15-2005, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Matt J. ]

[WoodenBNut]

Matt J.
Ok. You have convinced me!! I'll use Kirby's on the top side. Thanks for the info.

[jboat]

My two cents worth..
My father was a huge proponent of interlux paint and all the proucts that they sell, the primers, the caulks all of it. It was not worth arguing with him about what brand to use, as far as he was concerned Interlux was it. I always thought the stuff was overpriced and frankly not very good.
After he died and I inherited his boat I used Petit ACP and have never used anyhting since. It is compatable with evryones else primers, everyone elses caulks, it is cheaper and resists growth better than any paint I have used, better than Interlux by far, better than Supertox.
I have not purchased anyhting by Interlux in a while and miss none of it.

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by Matt J.:
... I truly hate to say it, but I'll not buy bottom paint from Kirby's again. I love their other paints, and will buy them whenever possible, but their bottom paint was far and away incapable of keeping our bottom reasonably clean. other boats that sailed far less had virtually no growth, just slime at worst, whereas Rarus had a thick heavy carpet - marina owner said it was one of the worst bottoms he'd cleaned in a couple years. :( Bear in mind that the "right" bottom paint for you is highly dependent on your location. What's the water temperature like? What's kind of O2 content does the water have? How much sunshine do you get? What's the bottom like?

What works well in, say, Puget Sound, where the water's clear, cold (45°F) and depp and [probably] doesn't have a huge amount of nitrogen run-off in it, might not be too effective in someplace like, oh, Chesapeake Bay, where the water is shallow, warm and loaded with nitrogen.

You need proper biocides for the conditions you're in.

[Matt J.]

Thanks, Nicholas, I think you're right. We're in a veritable cesspool with lots of sun, high temps, huge nitrogen loads, etc...

Kirby's is up in Mass. where temps are likely far lower, saltier, and cleaner.

I was shocked by how bad the growth was last year - and already this spring I can see the rudder getting a heavy carpet growth. When she gets pulled in a few weeks, she'll get something more appropriate to the area.

[Dan McCosh]

I've used lots of red lead primer and Interlux fiberglass bottomcoat for years. Works fine. I would say that the thinned paint, five coats is massive overkill. We generally use a single coat. Two would be as much as I would put on, and no thinning. (It's not recommended on the instructions.)
Re bottom paint protection. We tried bronze bottom coat, which was the old Chris Craft standard, for looks. It was the worst antifouling paint we've used. The red seems much better. Recently, we switched to the cheap West stuff. The ACP type paints have a far better reputation for antifouling and durability. We need to repaint annually, and it takes lots of paint, hence lean towards the low-cost approach.