rivet setting tool ???

[kulas44]

The rivets on my lapstrake boat are everyone identical and perfectly peened round. No way could anyone do this kind of work by hand this exact everytime. They must have used some kind of power tool. What is it and where can I get one ?

[Tristan]

I wonder? Are you talking about copper nails riveted over copper roves? Jamestown Distributors has Rosehead copper nails which are designed to be driven through the hull. A rove is driven over the nail, the nail then cut off, the nail head bucked, on the outside of the hull and "riveted" onto the rove using a specifically designed tool (see under Rosehead copper nails on the Jamestown site). You may be way ahead of me on this, but I believe an experienced builder could do a very uniform job of riveting.

[kulas44]

These are actual copper rivets and burrs, not nails. Every single rivet is peened PERFECTLY round, like a little mound of copper on top of each burr, not one hammer mark anywhere and not flattend at all. The burrs are flush and nary a one is concave. Whoever did the work was good, so good if he's still around I'll bet he still has bad dreams about it. I was hopeing someone could shed some light on the tools and how they were used.

[Bob Smalser]

Depends on whose hands, but pneumatic Palm nailers can often do a nicer job than by hand.

[ 06-12-2005, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Gary E]

Rivet's are often set with a concave punch that would produce a uniform "mound"

[Tristan]

Jay-Cee Sales and Rivet sells a huge variety of rivets, burrs, and also a pneumatic rivet gun. Look on Google.

[Ken Hutchins]

I'm sure this is what you are refering to, my boat has something over 3,000 of them. Most of these started as 30 penny nails, driven into holes slighly smaller diameter than the nails. Then the roves are driven on the nails, the nails cut off about 1.5 times the diameter above the rove. Then it is peened, first with a ball peen hammer then finished with a concaved rivet setting tool in an air hammer. During the peening the opposite end has to be backed up by various means to prevent knocking the rivet back out. It isn't hard to do only about 100 wacks of the
hammer for each. Do a hundred or so at a session, keep telling yourself it is fun. :D It is so much fun you start counting how many times you swing the hammer. Oh have I got a deal for you, how would you like to learn the craft of peening rivets? ;) I still have a few hundred to do, so come on over and I'll teach you how to do it. :D I've even got some slightly bigger to do, those are 5/16 diameter, got to figure about 200 hammer wacks for each of those. The real fun ones are those that are driven up from under the boat, swinging the hammer over your head. :eek:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid173/pdcb5e07edfedcc016ec731758fdd0f3e/f3bb4ba2.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/p8cf45bb7f2dd2cb8f7342218ead86b86/fbfe2ec7.jpg

[nedL]

Interesting about your rivet peening. Sorry to say that I've never had the opportunity to look inside a Kulas skiff that carefully to notice how the rivets were finished off. Interesting though as I've looked inside LOTS of Jersey skiffs and every one I have ever seen has been hand peened. Considering Kulas was one of the last wooden builders in business on the bayshore it is very possible they were using some sort of pneumatic or electric peener the cut the labor down. As for what your rivets are I would think they still started out as regular copper nails & burrs. I suppose one of the guys at the Hans Pedersen yard in Keyport might know about Kulas's rivets. - If I have a bit of time I'll see if I can find something out.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Old timers to the rescue!
My father was a tinsmith. Did his apprenticship in the early '30's. He acquired, but did not use very often, tools from previous generations.
I still have several old tools for riveting sheet steel. The tool are called, what else, "rivet sets".
They are heat treated steel bars. The brand name is "Pexto". One end is for striking. The other end has an appropriate sized clearence hole so the the parts to be riveted can be driven tightly together. And next to it is a lovely dimple of appropriate dimensions that allows the rivet to be peened over into a small dome. I still have a minnow bucket he made. The side seam is both riveted and soldered.
The trick to a good looking rivet job is to have rivets of the proper length and to hold the rivet set dead square so the rivet peens equally on all sides. The rivet head has to be backed up with a suitable dolly, anvil or metal table top.
Peening copper should be a snap.
Hammer riveting wood should be the ticket because you will have controll over how much the wood is compressed. And wear hearing protection.
Charlie

[ahp]

Have patiance with a dumb question, would it possible to use pop rivits? I know that pop rivits have a hole down the middle. Perhaps that could be filled with something.

[Bob Cleek]

I believe they must have been used at some point in the construction of small aluminum boats, fishing skiffs and canoes and such. However, as they are made of aluminum, they wouldn't stand up to a salt water environment too well. The shorter answer is, "No."

[Joe Dupere]

Originally posted by Cuyahoga Chuck:
Old timers to the rescue!... One end is for striking. The other end has an appropriate sized clearence hole so the the parts to be riveted can be driven tightly together. And next to it is a lovely dimple of appropriate dimensions that allows the rivet to be peened over into a small dome... The rivet head has to be backed up with a suitable dolly, anvil or metal table top.
Peening copper should be a snap.
CharlieI have a friend who does a lot of leatherwork. He gave me a tool that sounds a lot like what you're describing. He said it was used for making reins, harnesses and saddles, and he called it a 'monkey tool'. I found that you had to be careful to snip the rivet close enough to the washer/rove to get it to dome over. If you snipped it too long, the rivet would bend. I actually got faster just using a ball peen hammer, not necessarily neater, just faster!! smile.gif

Joe

[Dave Fleming]

"POP rivets" are usually Al. with some having what is called a SS. solid stem. The solid stem is the remainder of the 'popped off' part. It fills the hollow in the rivet.

I could see 'em being used in small Al. craft but not in anything larger

For one thing I bet the Al. part is not of an Al.alloy that could take constant immersion in salt water. Those marine alloys are not really workable because of the elements in them and the tempering process. Each guage of say 5000 series Al. plate has definite curvature limitations. One reason on larger vessels tight curved corners are often made of split Al. pipe of the same alloy.
Not too unlike the rabbetted corner posts found on many wood boat cabin sides. Where the sides themselves are say 1/2 inch ply.

[Tristan]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cuyahoga Chuck:
[QB]Old timers to the rescue!
My father was a tinsmith. Did his apprenticship in the early '30's. He acquired, but did not use very often, tools from previous generations.

Totally awesome! Imagine someone who actually apprenticed. I worked in sheet metal for a couple of years and only met one real master mechanic, an old fellow who had learned his trade in England. The rest, including me, just floundered along, learning as we went, occasionally cutting off fingers in the big shears or crushing hands in the power brakes. I developed a modicum of skill in setting up, shearing, bending, riveting, down in Miami (mostly aluminum) then got a job at a very old shop in Camden N.J. Jim Traegle, the old buck who owned the shop had been there for over 60 years, made galvanized skylights or liners for the local icecream carts, etc. Lots of small jobs. When I attempted to set up an ancient treadle sheer to do my first job I was horrified when it's accuracy was on the order of a quarter inch rather than the thousands we'd had on new power equipment in Miami. It was then I learned about using a pattern to scribe the necessary number of pieces, cutting each one out with hand held shears, scribing the bend lines, and making do with an eighth of an inch or so of wiggle room. I began to lose interest in my job when I learned that I was replacing a guy who had fallen six stories (and survived) during a skylight installation. Best part of the job was lunch, real NJ hogies and steak sandwiches purchased in a little shop where EVERYONE spoke only Italian. Second best part was getting to take out the 1935 (I think) Chevrolet (or was it Ford) pickup truck, complete with gold leaf on it's side, in near mint condition. We once drove out of the Italian section into a Polish section (home of the Universal Rundle corp, a toilet making Co.) where EVERYONE spoke only Polish. Again, great food (and beer). U. Rundle was in a huge, decrepit building where an army of beefy blond Poles smoothed "green" toilets before painting them with glaze. They were then dried, and loaded on to little carts which ran slowly on tracks through a huge long kiln. Great summer, I guess, got paid $1.50 per hour!

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Tristan,
My S&G layout kit has an ancient Pexto 48" straightedge. On the back are a series of charts giving dimensions for containers for "flaring liquid measue", "flaring dry measure","cans, pitched top", "cans, flat top", "straight dry measure" and "bushels".
This rule is testament to how far we have come in a couple of lifetimes. Today, folks stand around and marvel as a man knocks out a galvanized bucket with a few hand tools and some crank powered equipment clamped to a little workbench.
Charlie

[Jay Greer]

The tool for creating the final smooth burnish on the peened end of a copper rivet is called a "Dapping Punch". The tool is a concave polished punch and comes in a variety of sizes. Dapping Punches can be purchased from jeweler's supply houses such as Gesswein.

[John Meachen]

Would the pneumatic tool used for finishing rivets in aircraft construction do the job as described?It would be noisy but with the right tool a good head would be formed.

[Gary E]

Would the pneumatic tool used for finishing rivets in aircraft construction do the job as described?It would be noisy but with the right tool a good head would be formed Yes it would work well, and save a lot of time, not to mention the beter quality of the final joint.