Removing old diesel tanks

[ron ll]

I need to find someone in the Seattle area to remove my old black iron diesel tanks. There is a good thread here about building new tanks, but that almost seems like the easy part on my boat. There are two tanks, circa 1943, about 24" w, 6' long, 4' deep, tapered at the bottom to about 12" w. I can remove some of the surrounding woodwork, but the tanks will need to be cut into pieces to be removed. I would like to find someone that has enough experience with this so that they won't pollute the Sound or burn down the marina.

Pat? Lew? Anyone know someone that wants a messy job?

[pcford]

I need to find someone in the Seattle area to remove my old black iron diesel tanks. There is a good thread here about building new tanks, but that almost seems like the easy part on my boat. There are two tanks, circa 1943, about 24" w, 6' long, 4' deep, tapered at the bottom to about 12" w. I can remove some of the surrounding woodwork, but the tanks will need to be cut into pieces to be removed. I would like to find someone that has enough experience with this so that they won't pollute the Sound or burn down the marina.

Pat? Lew? Anyone know someone that wants a messy job?

Lew, I think he's talking to you.

I'll make a couple calls and pm you if I come up with something.

[Gary E]

You might want re think that "cut them up before removing"

I would bet they went in in one pc, they can come out in one pc.

[kc8pql]

I would bet they went in in one pc, they can come out in one pc.
I wouldn't bet on it. It's pretty common to put tanks into a bare hull and then build the interior around them.

[ron ll]

I would love to take them out in one piece. Unfortunately I would have to remove the pilot house, trunk cabin, and part of the deck to do so. :) Think I would rather cut 'em up. The new ones will not have to be as big, this was a commercial fishing boat, I don't need quite that much fuel for pleasure use. So I'm thinking once they are out, I can design smaller ones that will go in in one piece, (being sure to test that theory with plywood mockups first).

[Gary E]

Well...good luck....

bring wienies just in case...and hope just in case never happens..

[Lew Barrett]

Gee Pat, I thought he was talking to you:D

Ron, cutting them up in place could be quite an adventure. When we did ours, I had to lift the rear deck to get at them, but there wasn't a wheel house in the way. I cut the deck out as a single pad, pulled the tanks out, put the new ones in and re-installed the deck. Took the better part fo a winter. I probably couldn't have taken them out if I had to cut them up first, but my situation sounds like it was easier in this instance. Water tanks would be a completely different story on my boat.

[George Ray]

Instant pieces and little splatter and very little exterior heat. One or two fire blankets (fiberglass or nomex) and wet down the surrounding wood and/or hang wet wool blankets. Very little hot slag w/ plasma compared to Oxy-Acet.
(1) Degrease !!! maybe easier said than done.
(2) Don't get shocked by the plamsa torch.

[Tylerdurden]

I saw it done once before, the guy ran about 40 cfm of dry nitrogen into the tank then attacked it with a sawzall. If you remove the oxygen from the tank there is no risk of fire. once he got access to the base of the tank he used an air chisel and they came out like butta.
If the tank is structurally sound I would figure you could have bladders made to fit the dimensions of the tanks. Is the a hand hole in the tank top?
I do say that with a word of caution though, I was at the welding supply the other day and they had rented a plasma cutter to a homeowner/ budding artist. It seems he decided an old o2 tank would make some cool wind chimes, problem was he didn't even pull of the valve before he lit it up. Just barely hanging on in a hospital in boston minus his legs. Be careful who you contract that job to.

[sdowney717]

How about
freeze them with liquid nitrogen
Hit with sledge hammer
breaks tank into pieces

Anyway an interesting idea. I read somewhere that the Titanic steel was so brittle when cooled that it fractured easily.

http://www.key-to-steel.com/FR/default.aspx?ID=CheckArticle&NM=119

[ron ll]

Wow. Some interesting ideas here. I have talked to a couple of folks about it and the general idea was to use a grinder with a cutting wheel. I know there would still be sparks and possible fire hazards, but still seems safer than a torch. A sawzall might work in some spots, but not much clearance to the hull for blade travel.

Once I pull the settees out of the pilot house (no great loss) there will be fairly good access to the tops, altho there are still beams in the way of removing whole.

I know its not going to be an easy project, but it has to be done. One tank is already decommisioned and the other can't be far behind.

[Ken Hutchins]

I would attack it with air hammer chisels instead of a grinder, still got spark potential so all precautions must be taken. The big plus is no noxious air from the grinding and wheel dust. Got to wear ear protection. The next option would be a nibbler.

[seacoyote]

I had (2) 1000 gallon fuel tanks that were rusted through and filled with dry concrete removed by Bakketun and Thomas.
Send me a PM if you want their contact info.

Regards,
C. D. Hunter

[Bob Cleek]

Hard to believe that any commercial yard built a boat with tanks that cannot come out without destroying the boat! I'd be willing to bet that there is a way that they can be removed. Problem is, some of those yards were pretty clever and figuring it out is often a bit of a tussle. Sort of like a Chinese jigsaw puzzle.

[pcford]

Ok, I stopped at Walrus Machine and asked Rick Young...wizard of all things pertaining to metal, welding and machine work on boats...about your situation. He said that there is a Sawzall blade type called "The Torch" which would work quite handily. Gotta get it started first, of course. But Rick said it would be prudent to cut it up with a Sawzall. He said it was not necessary to fill the tank with inert gas. I think I might put some water and heavy duty dertergent in the tank and pump it out.

There is some kind of Dept. of Ecology rule about getting rid of the tank...has to be dealt with as hazardous waste by a specialist firm. Expensive....hope I've got my story straight.

Seacoyote's recommendation of Bakketun and Thomas is certainly most appropriate. Good guys. However, they (and most other boatwrights in Seattle that can hold a tool) are working on a big joinerwork project on a 100 footer.

Today I got another antique hydroplane job to start after the one I'm working on right now. Otherwise, I'd be right with you. (ahem)

Good luck dude.

[Tylerdurden]

Just a followup, I think its cheap insurance to run an inert gas or comp air as a precaution. Running a sawzall and /or an air chisel will create vibrations not unlike an ultrasonic cleaner. Considering the accumualted slude in a decades old tank I would think there is an opportunty to create some atomization or vapor. For the 75 bucks or so to rent a tank and regulator I would consider it essential.

Your freind is right about the "torch" blades, I hack stainless with them all the time, they are the way to go, expensive but all I use.
Lennox or starrett are good second choice. Best prices I have found is at Plumbing/Welding supply houses. Don't go to grainger.

For the enviromental outfit, tell them you have an already cut up tank and you need dispose of it. They will supply you with barrels or you can rubbermaid the peices yourself and haul to them. Call first to see what you can work out.

[Tom Hunter]

My experience is that a sawsall does not make many sparks, and sparks should not set diesel alight anyway. However really hot metal can, and the sawblade will get pretty hot.

But you can probably do the job in stages, for example by opening up some holes in the top of the tank, then checking the sludge in the bottom and possibly cleaning some of it out.

The inert gas idea is not bad (though I am not expert on that) especially if it is heavier than air. You could use that when opening up the tank, and then do what ever you needed to make the rest of the job safe.

I would skip the cutting torch, it is sure to be hot enough to ignite things and then you have to take major countermeasures all the time. The saw blade can get hot, but it can also be cooled.

[capt jake]

The tank only needs to be completly cleaned to dispose of. Most of the underground abatement firms can do the cleaning for you, then just haul it off (re-cycle or dump).

What about cutting it up with the fein multimaster and metal blade? Might be slow but it fit in tight area and no real depth needed for the cut.

[davidagage]

I would agree with the sawzall thing, I have been cutting up all kinds of stuff with mine. On a safety note...Diesel will not ignite by spark. (gas will, but not diesel or kerosene) so I would have no worries about cutting them up and removing them piece by piece

[George Ray]

A grinder will certainly cut but the job would require a 7" or 9" HD side grinder and it is no picnic to handle one in a close space and the sparks are like a volcano. When it jams up and climbs all over you ..............!!!
The grinder is truely an option and should be on the list, but I think it should be near the bottom of the list.

*********

Sawsall ????????? could be good.

Drill the tank like swiss cheese with a hole saw and then CONNECT THE DOTS with the sawall. IF you cannot get it all with this method you should be able to but a big dent in the project and once the tank is half gone and you have access to the back side from the the inside the rest will be easier.

***********

HD nibbler is another option. I have not worked with nibblers so I can't speak to specifics but it could be used to connect the dots between hole saw holes, assuming the nibbler can do a curved surface.

[sdowney717]

I think the sawzall with a metal cutting blade is perfect for this job.
You can easily cut metal and the tank I am sure would be thin.
After you cut into the tank, whacking it with a heavy hammer to collapse the side should give better clearance access to the backsides.
Using the sawzall on a diesel tank better than sparky grinder. I would also be wanting to flush the tank out with water, open the bilge drains and flush it all out on the ground. If it is a workmans marina like ours, no one will care if the dirt gets dirty!!!

[ron ll]

We're certainly on the same page here. Bakkatun and Thomas do all the shipwright work on my boat that I can't do, and Rick at Walrus does the metal work. I know Joe and John are too busy right now for this, and asking Rick to do it seems like hiring daVinci to take out the garbage.

Good ideas about which tools to use, but I still am not going to do this myself. Hoping to find the perfect person to do it who has the highest skill and the lowest price :D . Rick certainly fits that description if he could be talked into doing it.

Thanks all.