Power Sharpie for Rivers/Canals/lakes

[Bruce Taylor]

My Dad is casting about for a design to replace his heavy V-bottomed power cruiser. What he needs, I think, is a flat-bottomed river boat, about 26' long, powered by a small outboard.

Phil Bolger's box-keeled Champlain comes to mind as an appropriate boat for his waters, but it's about four feet too short.

http://www.smallboatforum.com/SBF%20Image%20File/Champlain33.gif

The ideal boat might be something like the Champlain, but with a longer cockpit that can be screened in for guest accomodations.

I know of the Bolger power sharpies -- the so-called "State" boats -- but don't think there's a sufficiently beamy 26-footer in the series.

I know Mark Van Abbema's excellent Heart of Gold, and understand he's working on a shorter, trailerable Mark V.

I've read the article on Nomad III (WB 185)...that's the kind of boat I had in mind (not surprisingly, it too was inspired by Bolger's box-keeled sharpies) .

I've looked at Redwing 26, and have tried to find pics of Parker's Commuter 27 (but his site seems to be down, or something).

So...what else am I missing?

[mmd]

I know somebody who has a design for something a bit longer that might be applicable. Alterations are possible. If interested, please contact me off-line and I can tell you more.

(If this is too blatantly self-serving for anyone's sensibilities, let me or Scot know and it will be pulled.)

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d19/mmd_ns/cruiservariationGA.jpg

[RonW]

Neat looking boat, mmd, nice balance of beam to length ratio, maybe you should dissplay this in the other thread. What was it, oh yea the perfect power boat....I like it...
What is the lenght and beam,,

[stumpbumper]

I like it too!! Come on now, don't hold out on us. Who is the designer. More info please.

Lynn

[Paul Pless]

Who is the designer.

Check the title block in the lower right corner of the drawing.;)

Nice looking boat, Michael. Is she related to that aluminum power sharpie you've posted pictures of a few times?

[AngWood]

Lovely boat. Don't forget Atkin, too. I've always admired this'n:

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Cruisers/images/Marigold-1.gif

[mmd]

Paul; yes, a variation on the same basic platform.

LOA - 36 ft
B - 8ft - 6in
D - 1ft - 4in (hull only)
Disp. - 5000 lb
Power - 90 hp outboard
Speed - 19 kt max, 15 kt cruise
Range - 250 miles with 15% reserve

[RonW]

Excellent mmd, excellent. Is it my imagination or do I see a family resemblance between your boat and a very early william hand model, - CLAIRE -a 36 ft. express cruiser, obviously a semi-dissplacement hull, that they thought was a speed demon at the time, running all the way up to 22 m.p.h.
I also like the way you balanced the pilot house and cabin, should be a very steady boat.

--Now back to our regular program.- A 26ft. long, flat bottomed river cruiser, running with a low power outboard, and all the comforts of home...I submitt....very shallow vee, and draft..lots of room..

http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/GT27_study.htm

[Ian Marchuk]

Hey there Michael , show us the other two variations .....
I like this one too , and it's looking like a toss up...I'd better not smell the flowers too long.....

[garland reese]

Bolger's Tennessee comes to mind, though it is 30 feet, and only 6 feet or so abeam. Light and simple construction, and should move well under very modest power.

[Ian Marchuk]

RonW , or anyone else for that matter : do you have any profile drawings , sketches or pictures of William Hand's Claire ?

[Meadowlarker]

Tom Lathrop's Bluejacket? It seems to fit your bill as an efficient cruiser.

[RonW]

Ian, yes I do, actually complete plans with instructions and all the tables of offsets and drawings. You can get yourself a set too, for the unheard of price of $7... yep that is the correct price.
From our friend dn goodchild. The claire is a 9 ft. wide boat, and has a canopy, not the sweet pilot house that mmd created with a wave of his pencil. Do look at the broncho by hand, it is only 29 ft, and very sweet lines as well..
I think mmd created a more modern version with the outboard, and a very yachty look as well as practical for a couple to cruise in.
Most states down here have a 8 ft. 6 inch width regulation and a 40 ft. length on the total trailer length, so with the trailer tongue, 36 ft. is pushing it. Up to 10 ft. wide it is easy and cheap to get a permit, but you have to get one every time you move it, don't know about the length permit.
Maybe mmd should consider a 30 ft. version..

Here is the link to some of hand's designs, scroll down to hand.

http://www.dngoodchild.com/divide_author.htm

And in keeping with the original request on the river cruiser, I also really like the garvey I posted above. It is very practical as to length with a lot of interior room, not as pretty as these longer boats, or as practical for the great lakes, but a neat interior arrangement in the size range. Dont care for the stitch and tape, but that could be changed. Tooo many boats to choose from..
Maybe the above garvey could be improved with the bow being able to drop down as in a landing craft. Heavy welded aluminum hull, and just drop the front down and set up a lawn chair and go fishing..
Maybe someone needs to design some plywood on frame landing crafts..that would be neat..

[Bruce Taylor]

RonW -- Thanks for pointing out the GT 27. That one is in the right family, though I don't think he sees himself on a scow.

Garland, Tennessee is a candidate, and I've put it in the "show-to-Dad" file. A slightly beamier and shorter Tennessee might hit the sweet spot.

AngWood, do you have specs for that very attractive Atkin?

I see him in a riverboat with a bit of flapper-era charm...a skiff, or step sharpie with a tall, breezy house and windows all around...just long and narrow enough to slip along at 6 or 7 knots with a small outboard (less than 20 HP, say).

A box keel might be the best way to hit those marks. Bolger has said somewhere that it's the best form he's found for getting volume to the ends without adding much wave-making resistance. (And having seen that Champlain sneaking along under a 9 HP motor, I have to say, in the words of Mike Nesmith, I'm a believer).

[RonW]

Bruce-- I will say this in the spirit of the thread as to a river cruiser.
I am a old river rat and love playing around in the ohio river, it is a very interesting body of water. Although you feel very insignificant when the barges roll by.
I understand what you are saying about the looks of a scow compared to something like what mmd posted.
But in a given towing length they offer a lot of interior layout.

My ideal river cruiser would be like the scow above, but believe it or not I would have it as a trapdoor or landing craft.
There are tons of places along the river bank to pull over and pitch a camp, canopy, set up hammocks, go swimming or fishing or just relax and exsplore and stretch your legs. Basically boat camping.
It really adds a lot to your boat to be able to beach it. And I can't think of anything better then a landing craft.
It may not be the sexiest boat, but it sure is practical.

I would opp for heavy welded aluminum or plywood on frame with oak runners on the bottom, any form of glass is eaten up by sand bars. Remember in the spirit of the thread and being practical as to what would be the most usefull and fun.
Other then that I would prefer to cruise in mmd's boat..

[Bruce Taylor]

A very interesting post, Ron. I can see the appeal of the "landing craft" idea, and I'll be sure to make my Dad aware of it (I'll be seeing him this weekend, and am putting together a little package of options for him to think about).

My parents cruise in the Rideau system, between Ottawa and Kingston, and spend a fair bit of time at my sister's cottage in the Thousand Islands area. They used to bounce around in a pontoon-houseboat that carried a 70 hp outboard and yet could make no better than 4 mph. When they got tired of high-decibel rafting, they bought a 26' fibreglass beast that can haul itself up on plane, but throws off a wake that would frighten a Waimea Bay surfer. I haven't asked him about fuel consumption, but I imagine it has the OPEC seal of approval. ;)

My interest in the box-keel boats (if they work as advertised) arises from the hope of getting near scow-like living space while retaining a fairly low-resistance underwater profile.

Aesthetics are secondary. FWIW, I love the looks of Mark Van's power sharpies.

[RonW]

On the other hand, how about a real river boat that will defintely turn the heads for a second take.....

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Misc/GwenOTheRiver.html

[Bruce Taylor]

I see the electric Nomad III and the other Mundoos are online:

http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/mainpages/mundoo3.php

http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/pics/mundoo3/smallpics/NomadPortS.jpg

Close...but too long. "Tennessee"'s tall Australian cousin.

[Paul Pless]

I like the concept, but that looks like somebody cut the upper two thirds off a Winnebago and put it on a boat. I find myself wanting to know if the sides slide out.

http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/pics/mundoo3/smallpics/NomadPortS.jpg

[Bruce Taylor]

:D

Looks a little better from the bow...as in this pic from the cover of WB:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~storerm/Solarboat/Mundoo3murraycliffs.jpg

That said, I agree that it could be improved. For inspiration, I'd look to the steam and electric launches of the twenties (and earlier).

[RonW]

Interesting that you mention the steam and electric launches of a by gone era (that is coming back) for inspiration.
Most of the edwardian era types had the cabins from the transom forward with a open deck up front, just the opposite of what we do.
Check out the picnic and classic series for ideas.
http://www.creative-marine.co.uk/Frolic31PhotoGallery.htm

So how do we design a river cruiser? Do we design the cabin and put a boat hull under it? I agree with paul, the boat above does have too much cabin and looks like a winnebago with a hull instead of wheels.
Which exsplains why so many pontoons are showing up, it is strictly for the deck space.
And on the other hand when we design a nice hull and side profile, particularly in a trailerable model, it doesn't leave a whole lot of space to try and cram a leasurely type living space.
MMD above did a wonderfull job, but it is 36 ft. long, which is where you end up mostly when everything works out. Which is kinda hard on the towing part. Maybe a 29 or 30 ft. version, which is still a lot of boat to be towing a whole lot or very far.

On a river cruiser I will ask the question of how important or is it important to be beachable?
Personally I see a very fatal flaw in the picture above with the boat getting ready to be beached.
How is this guy gonna get down and back up on that 4 ft. or more bow?
He is definitely gonna get his feet wet, and if it is a older couple is the mrs. gonna be climbing up and down that 4 ft. bow that is 3 ft. from the beach.I don't think so, or at least not without a lot of flack. Way too much bow heigth for a river cruiser.
So how important is beachable? I say very important in a river cruiser. So why design a river cruiser with big water bows that really are not beachable.
My ideal river cruiser for the ohio, would be the scow above, maybe lenghtened a little with a trap door that drops down right onto the beach. Walk out standing upright, set up the lawn chairs and grill, and you are home. And if company shows up, don't be rude, just throw the stuff back in the boat, raise the door and cruise off to the next private sand bar. Kinda a interesting concept, ain't it.

[Mark Van]

I don't think being "beachable" is all that important, a lot of rivers rise and fall unpredictably, perhaps a few feet overnight. If the river drops two feet overnight and you are beached, you will be stuck.
I usually anchor slightly off the beach, tilt the motor up, and then take a stern anchor to shore, pulling the stern toward the beach. With a 1 foot draft, it isn't much of a hassle walking ashore, and there is a swim ladder. When I am ready to go to sleep, I pick up the stern anchor, and let the boat go further away from the bank for the night. I try to make sure that I am in at least three feet of water, depending on how much the river may fluctuate.

[AngWood]

Atkin's Marigold is flat-bottomed, with a length of 24'8" and a beam of 7'6". Look here for the full description. http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Cruisers/Marigold.html

[Tar Devil]

David Gerr's Escapade, perhaps?

http://www.gerrmarine.com/images/boat_images/power/gerr25whitehall/gerr25whitehallA.JPG

(Kinda like that small Mark V boat, huh?)

Later,

Phil

[Tonyr]

We have "solved" this one by chopping a standard 8 foot step ladder in half (getting rid of the half which props up the steps), and painting the remaining stepped half the same colour as the hull.

We nose up to a beach, place the ladder against the bow, and climb down in to (at most) a few inches of water.

Having the ladder means we don't need a radar reflector, for what that's worth.

Tony.

[Bruce Taylor]

Phil, I could love a boat like that.

I printed out the info. for both Escapade and Marigold.

[garland reese]

Paul Fisher has some splendid steam launches, like that Edwardian looking one in the post above. They are strip built, but I bet Paul could take one of them and do a few mods, and configure it for modern power. Those launches like "Escapade" are really stunning looking designs.

Actually, something like the Bolger Tennessee could be made more atune to the look of these boats, so far as the cabin and such....

A lot of good thoughts here. Many very nice boats have been suggested.

[AngWood]

Ooh, I forgot about Atkin's Wader--26'8" by 7'6".

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Cruisers/Wader.html

[RonW]

A couple of comments on the atkin flat bottom boats.
There is no reason why you can't eliminate the inboard and shaft, and instead mount a 30 or 50 horse outboard to the transom. It would free up a lot of room and noise as well as complications.
Mount it by way of a outboard bracket, like a 10 inch setback manual jackplate, for adjustment, instead of on the transom.
Then you would need no slop well and save that room as well, plus not having water run through a hole to eventually rot out the transom. You would have to watch your balance as for those old engines where heavy. It would also take twice the horsepower in a outboard as one of the old heavy engines that atkin speciifies.
Those old engines had a lot of torque and turned bigger props.

You would also redo the keel, and shorten it a lot, and reduce draft by about a 1/3. Look at the russel r for the type of keel.
http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Oar/RussellR.html
And for a hard core river boat, run the keel all the way up to the front of the stem, to act as a rub strake, also put rub strakes on both sides of the keel for about half the length of the boat. And if you want a hard core river boat, put 1/4 inch flat metal over the rub strakes for abrasion.

You could also with a 7ft, 6 inch beam respace the frames and lenghten the boat up to 30 ft, of course you would need to slightly increase the framing and planking. But you would end up with a beam to length ratio about the same as the little effort, another one of atkin's flat bottomed boats.
http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Cruisers/LittleEffort.html

There is no reason why these flat bottom boats can't run in the mid teens with ease, and with the weight and design should handle river chop easily at about 12 m.p.h. A lot faster then your 6 or 7 m.p.h. slow cruise figures. Of course it would depend on which boat and how much upsweep there was to the transom.
Or just have a new flat bottom boat designed.

[Bruce Taylor]

I printed out the info. for Wader and spent a long time drooling over the Selway-Fisher launches before printing those up too.

Another interesting post, Ron. I agree about the outboard.

[RonW]

Hey bruce, check out these little 22 footers, particularly the tug.
These are from beckman on the east coast.

http://www.steamboating.net/page27.html

http://www.steamboating.net/page26.html

[Tar Devil]

Phil, I could love a boat like that.

Ayep. She's a thing of beauty. My first choice would be Marks 28 foot boat for ease of construction, outboard powered, roomier stateroom.

http://markvdesigns.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/mv282.jpg.w560h328.jpg

Later,

Phil

[Bruce Taylor]

Ron -- Noted, and thanks.

Phil, Mark Van's new design is pretty promising -- and promisingly pretty.

[Mark Van]

And it is not completed yet, but I promise, I will work on it.

[Tar Devil]

And it is not completed yet, but I promise, I will work on it.

I promise to be patient! :D

[Wavewacker]

On the other hand, how about a real river boat that will defintely turn the heads for a second take.....

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Misc/GwenOTheRiver.html


I know it's an old thread, but it's a goodie and Ron is still here. I think I have had freeboard masiveidis, wanting excessive freeboard, but here is one that's pretty low....but

While the drawings always look nice, seems that much of the lower cabin walls could be from the boat sides being a little higher.

Guess this would also make a good LC to load from the front and make that cabin a couple feet shorter.

This is also a sitting, stoop over cabin. Would a center raised cabin (center isle raised for the length a couple feet wide....kinda like the bird watcher top)...be a problem?


Think they still have the plans for this one!