Irresponsible hunting

[Tar Devil]

OLN just televised an episode of "Best and Worst of Tred Barta." It certainly was not only one of his worse, but probably the single most irresponsible piece of hunting I've ever seen.

He was hunting caribou in Newfoundland with his longbow, repeatedly hurling arrows at a distance from 40 to 60 yards... at running caribou!

I'm amazed the network even televised this show.

Later,

Phil

[ishmael]

Maine has a long tradition, and probably has fewer idiots than most places. I remember, back in Ohio and MA, every son of a gun and his brother would get a deer ticket, take up the 30.30 or the shotgun, and go out in the woods on a Fall Saturday. They'd often include copious amounts of beer and Jimmy Beam in the ritual, and a few people inevitably didn't make it down to breakfast on Monday morning.

Showing idiot behavior on a hunting show is irresponsible, though someone really good with a longbow will make that kind of shot. Never heard of the bowman, but that's no suprise, I haven't shot a bow in years, and was never much better than average.

I knew a guy once, in Ohio, who was spectacular. As a hobby he ran an archery golf course and was out there much of his free time. The best natural eye I've ever encountered. He didn't hunt, but I wager he could have made those shots. The bow was an extension of him, and seemed as natural as feet or eyes or hands. Marvelous to watch. But you're right, unless you're some sort of archery sachem, don't take those shots.

[Tristan]

Tred Barta makes a living being a tough guy macho hunter, fisherman, and a bit of a jerk for TV. In spite of his knowledge and obvious experience, he tends to emphasize the BIG TOUGH OUTDOORSMAN aspects of hunting and fishing which I'd not want to teach my kids.

[Tar Devil]

though someone really good with a longbow will make that kind of shot.

No, they won't.

I've completed the state archery safety course required for a deer tag in North Carolina. Any bow hunter with a conscience toward wildlife would never attempt the shots Barta made. Barta himself has said many times his limit is around 20 yards.

Later,

Phil

[Phillip Allen]

40 yards is not a long shot for a bow...longer than I was competent at but I've seen a paper plate repeatedly hit near center at that range. Additionally, penetration of a 30-plus inch shaft is very good at that range. As to the macho stuff, it is what the marketing experts say sells and I believe them. I despise the macho image but no one listens to me and so off they go buying magnums, tactitals, high-brass, and "Buck"-double-high-cap-mike-mike-pee-pee extenders…foolishly exposing their short comings.

[Tar Devil]

40 yards is not a long shot for a bow...

For real? When I shot daily, 40 yards was my absolute max - but only when target shooting and using a compound bow with sights, an expensive arrow rest and mechanical release.

When I started using traditional bows that distance dropped to half. And never got bigger.

I've NEVER heard any experienced hunter say they would take a shot at that distance.

Regarding the macho stuff, I've grown to expect educational value from nearly every hunting (and fishing) show I watch, teaching safety first and ethical practices second. I've never seen another show that would advocate this behaviour.

Later,

Phil

[Phillip Allen]

I'm sorry for not making myself more clear...I didn't see the show and believe that your depiction of it to be likely accurate...running shots at that range is likely to be as you say...there are exceptions but...they are...EXCEPTIONS

[Ken Hutchins]

Phil, what has happened to the standard 18 target archery course with targets out to 80 yds? This was standard long before the fancy compound bows, sights, mechanical releases and high tech arrows. There was a couple of shooters in the local club who shot at the marks on playing cards out to about 30 yds long before compound bows were invented, granted those guys were exceptional and they sure were an incentive to improve your shooting.
All the fancy equipment stuff has increased speed which improves accuracy primarily on the long range shots. This same fancy stuff has made the close range shots more difficult because the arrow flexes so much when being released and doesn't really straighten out for about 20 yds.
40 yds for a still hunting shot should not be a problem, I would never try or recommend a running shot at that or for that matter any distance.

[ishmael]

I remember a common distance for target recurve to be forty. We shot at any and all distances up to that, beyond it not often. I was shooting a forty five pound bow with a 29 inch aluminum arrow. Is my memory faulty? It happens.

Shooting at a moving target IS another matter. Different skills. That guy I mentioned with the archery golf course, who shot without sights, could put an arrow pretty much where he wanted within a hundred yard range. He was fast, too. Fun to watch. Even when my skills were as good as they got I wouldn't have considered a fifty yard shot at a running caribou -- unless I was really hungry.

P.S. I've never shot a compound bow, or a longbow for that matter.

[RichKrough]

A retired conservation officer I know always jokes about deer season being effective in thinning out both pests, The deer and the hunters

[BrianW]

I rarely, very rarely, watch any hunting shows.

Sounds like this was a really bad one.

[geeman]

YA ,I never got the "sport" part of hunting.using the latest gadgits etc.Man with gun in field by himself,trying to outsmart isnt the same thing.The animal doesnt have much chance ,where is the sport?

[BrianW]

There's plenty of sport, even with a few gadgets.

As just shown, a jerk with what's considered a fairly primitive weapon is still capable of being a slob hunter.

Another guy with a scoped rifle and laser range finder may use those tools to cleanly kill game and reduce suffering.

It's not the tools, it's the hunter.

[Phillip Allen]

There's plenty of sport, even with a few gadgets.

As just shown, a jerk with what's considered a fairly primitive weapon is still capable of being a slob hunter.

Another guy with a scoped rifle and laser range finder may use those tools to cleanly kill game and reduce suffering.

It's not the tools, it's the hunter.


a very good point Brian...

[paladin]

I don't consider myself a "jerk" hunter, although I haven't hunted the past half dozen years....
The archery range alluded to with targets out to 80 yards, also had targets at 15 yards...and concealed....are called animal rounds...and I regularly managed to get my targets and win a few trophies, but I have been using a bow for over 50 years.....But the bows may differ....My bows are custom made, and the closest that you will find commercially were made by Browning as the Safari II models, slightly shorter than mine. Browning made mine to my design...
Imagine a bow the length of an english longbow, but with the full recurve of a mongol bow...plus I use a 31.5 inch shaft. Shooting through traps my bow will propel and arrow, a heavy shafted arrow, at the speed of a carbon shaft fired from a compound bow...
I have brought down bison from horseback, caribou from afoot in Alaska, a kodiak bear (on foot) and a rogue elephant on a controlled hunt in Thailand. I placed three arrows in the elephant...the kodiak was a one arrow kill....the arrow entered below the chin, buried to the fletching, and severed the spine on the way through...
It can be done....but also I have never found anyone that could string my bow, much less draw it at almost 85 lbs...now I have trouble trying to string my 45-50 pound target bow....

[Leon m]

, repeatedly hurling arrows at a distance from 40 to 60 yards... at running caribou!



Doesn't sound good. The statement "Repeatedly"is a give away as to his poor accuracy.
I've seen some guys make some amazingly accurate shots, watched a guy hunt pheasant on the wing with a longbow 3 for 3. Saw a guy put an arrow through the chest of a suite of armor at 100 yards.

Some guys can do some amazing stuff with a bow, but if your lobbing reapeatedly in hopes of hitting a fish in a barrel...then you shouldn't be hunting...and I agree with Phil, they shouldn't be showing it on TV.

Phil I gotta ask...Did he get a Caribou, how many did he wound?

[Leon m]

I don't consider myself a "jerk" hunter, although I haven't hunted the past half dozen years....
The archery range alluded to with targets out to 80 yards, also had targets at 15 yards...and concealed....are called animal rounds...and I regularly managed to get my targets and win a few trophies, but I have been using a bow for over 50 years.....But the bows may differ....My bows are custom made, and the closest that you will find commercially were made by Browning as the Safari II models, slightly shorter than mine. Browning made mine to my design...
Imagine a bow the length of an english longbow, but with the full recurve of a mongol bow...plus I use a 31.5 inch shaft. Shooting through traps my bow will propel and arrow, a heavy shafted arrow, at the speed of a carbon shaft fired from a compound bow...
I have brought down bison from horseback, caribou from afoot in Alaska, a kodiak bear (on foot) and a rogue elephant on a controlled hunt in Thailand. I placed three arrows in the elephant...the kodiak was a one arrow kill....the arrow entered below the chin, buried to the fletching, and severed the spine on the way through...
It can be done....but also I have never found anyone that could string my bow, much less draw it at almost 85 lbs...now I have trouble trying to string my 45-50 pound target bow....

Dang ...YOUR THE MAN !

Better watch out...you may become my hero :D

[Bill R]

I practice with my bow almost daily year round (Hoyt compound) on both 3D and bullseye targets to ranges out to 50-60yds. When I am hunting- I won't even consider a shot beyond 20 yards. Period.

Crap like that on hunting shows p!$$es me off to no end. It is beyond irresponsible, and encourages slob hunters.

That is why I refuse to watch the shows.

[ishmael]

Brian's and both Phil's points are well taken.

I hate to use film as a reference for morality, but Cimino's "The Deer Hunter" makes this point pretty powerfully. It's a little sappy when Deniro doesn't take a good shot, and that's part of the time, but the message that you don't do this unless you are serious and moral about it is fine stuff.

Slinging arrows at moving caribou that are half a football field away, unless you are an exceptional bowman, is irresponsible. If you're trying to feed a family, we'll excuse it, even embrace it, but otherwise knock it off. And cut out the beer and Beam. LOL.

[paladin]

Jack...I drink neither beer or Jim Beam...and in Alaska you hunt for food, or to keep from being food.......and no..bear rugs ain't great for messing around with your favorite sweet thing......

[ishmael]

No offense, Chuck. You're undoubtedly a better bowman than I am(even though neither of us is up to an eightyfive pound draw these days). Like I said in my original post, a very good bowman could make that shot.

I couldn't, I know I can't, never could, and ninteyeight percent of bowmen can't. Showing that show to them is irresponsible because it ends up with caribou who have an arrow stuck in their ass, not their hearts.

You've actually shot and killed bison with an arrow, from horseback? I need to meet you someday.

[Charles Burgess]

I used to use a simple longbow, and I practiced on all sorts of tagets. One of my favorite was having a friend toss some frisbees (one at a time) up into the air...I averaged 8 out of 10 at 30 to 40 yards in a open windy field.

But, I would never shoot at running deer or any other ground animal...walking was OK, but not running...I have too much respect for the animals to treat them that way.

As for the OLN show...the guy was probably "playing to the camera" (showboating) and should recieve a lot of angery emails.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Makes the case for curare.

[George.]

Which is properly used in blowgun darts, not arrows.

[ishmael]

Speaking of blowguns, what remarkable weapons. I made one once out of four feet of copper pipe. I used some old sailmaker's needles with a bit of cotton fluff through the eye's for fletching, as darts.

Within twenty yards, with some curare on the point, LOOK OUT!

It gets the aim right up to your eye. With very little practice I could put that dart in a paper plate at twenty yards 95 times out of a hundred. Remarkable weapons.

P.S. It was kinda fun. I don't know how fast those darts moved, but they really went with just a puff of human wind.

[paladin]

The negritos in the Philippines use a 3 1/2- 4 foot length of copper pipe for blowguns......and golf tees in their dart construction...a steel needle is burned or drilled into the pointy end, and a ball of cotton where you sit the golf ball......and they are deadly accurate, taking small game on the run....they had the run at the golf course at Clark Airplane Patch, and after all the weekend golfing, would be seen scouring the field for tees.....
When I was hunting I practiced every morning....on the animal round with targets at 15 feet to 80 feet through wooded terrain, there are 14 targets, and three arrows each for a complete round...about 6 a.m. I would do 2 rounds.....between 12:30 and 1:30 I would usually do 2 rounds....and the same in the evening. When I shot at life sized paper fixed targets there was no fun shooting at the bulls eye, it was too large....I ususally used the eye of the animal. In Vietnam a bow/arrows were quieter than a suppressed pistol.....when we got a bit tired of the military cuisine we would go to the countryside for some wild pig......philippino style....
Although some years ago I purchased a Martin compound bow I have rarely used it....the recurve is lighter and more comfortable....

[Tar Devil]

Phil I gotta ask...Did he get a Caribou, how many did he wound?

No, never got a caribou. No way to know if he wounded any.

Several of you mentioned some trick, long distance shooters. Knocking down targets in controlled conditions at ridiculous distances is fun to watch. But even as good as Byron Ferguson is, he usually doesn't make his long distance shots the first time... and he has often admitted that 40 to 60 yards is approaching the accuracy limits of longbows.

Shot selection at live prey should be given much narrower lattitude than at targets.

Later,

Phil

[George.]

Copper blow guns are BS. This is a wooden boat forum! :D I'll have you know that wooden BGs, like the ones used in the Amazon, are drilled in a way that predicts the way the finished BG will bend down under its own weight - in other words, so that a hole drilled curved will become straight when the BG is held by one end against the lips, during use.

And all this is done with stone age technology, by people who count one-two-three-many. So there.

[BrianW]

...by people who count one-two-three-many...

Too funny! :)