18' Sharpie

[Honda_Shadow]

With the purchase of my new house, I'll have the boat shop, er.. I mean garage that I've always wanted. In it, I'm soon hoping to build "Idie," an 18' Sharpie whose plans are offered from the NC Maritime Museum in Beaufort, NC. The plans seem pretty straight foward, but with two little snags; a rounded stern for one, (which Oyster warns me against) and what seems to be excessive sail area: 205 S.F. for an 18' flat bottom boat. Any thoughts on either of these little issues? I'm mainly concerned about the rounded stern... Too difficult for a first time build?
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-45081188800216_1908_8855156

[JimD]

Just my .02 of wisdom but why this boat? She looks like one of those boats that was designed from the get go to be 'challenging' to sail. Do you really want that? For my money she's over canvased with that big gaff, has very low freeboard and not much beam for initial stability. And round sterns to my eye don't add any beauty to a boat they just make it harder to build. There's some really pretty little sharpies out there. I especially like cat/yawl or cat/ketch rigs as they are now called. Twer it me I'd build a different boat.:D

[Honda_Shadow]

Well, it's original design was to be an oyster boat for protected waters, about 100 years ago. I liked it because the plans made sense with no fluff or gingerbread, AND the plans were cheap. I am definently open to other designs, this boat just seemed to have the qualities I'm looking for: shallow draft, open boat intended for fishing as much as sailing, no gingerbread, easy to build, and has a capacity for at least 2 people comfortably.

[JimD]

How do you intend to build? Tradition, plywood, strip plank or cold mold?

[Honda_Shadow]

I'm reading R.B. Parker's book on Sharpies: The Sharpie Book. I was going to be building the thing with Okoume plywood for skin (still unsure about thickness, 3/8"?) and probably southern yellow pine for chine logs and keelson, white oak for rubrails and frames. I'm planning on glassing the entire outside of the hull and epoxy coating everything else. The boat will get a white paint all over but for small accents such as toe rails, rub rails, ect. which will remain natural. The bottom will get an extra layer of fiberglass because I'm planning on beaching this thing alot; my wife don't like to get wet so she gets beach side service to Shackleford Banks. :o)

[Keith Wilson]

The drawing shows no reef points, but many working boats of that period would have had four or five sets. Sail area was enormous by today's standards because the oystermen wanted to get home with their catch no matter what the wind did. In even moderate wind, they would tuck in a reef or two or three. Go ahead and build it if you like the boat, just have the sail made so you can reef it way down, an adjust sail area to wind speed.

As far as the round stern, my understanding was that it was to make it easier to handle oyster tongs. I think it looks nice, and I don't think it would be all that hard to make if you laminated it out of a couple of layers of 3mm plywood. It certainly goes with the boat. The only change I would make would be to angle the boom up a little, and make at least the gaff hollow, and probably the mast as well, to reduce weight aloft

[JimD]

Green Island 18 from Headland Boats:

http://www.headlandboats.com/img/gi18scout.png

[Robert - Hoopers Island MD]

How about Reuel Parker's 19 foot Ohio Sharpie as an alternative. It has a similar design and a square stern. Parker speaks very highly of the particular sharpie in "THe Sharpie Book". Parkers plans may be more expensive, but the cost of the plans would represent a small percentage of the construction cost.

Or, you might call or visit the Beaufort museum and talk to Greg Wright the museum's boat wright. I visited the museum several weeks ago and found Mr. Wright to be very friendly and helpful. Also they seemed to have several sharpies of about the size you mention tied up to their dock, so Mr. Wright may well have a fair amount of experience with the boat you are considering.

Good luck, Robert

[Honda_Shadow]

I'd love to go to Beaufort, unfortunately I found a job in Georgia, and the trip would be like 11 hours just to ask a couple questions. (I grew up in Morehead City though)

Where can I get Parkers plans? I don't mind paying for expensive plans as long as I'm paying for quality.

[JimD]

Where can I get Parkers plans?

Reuel Parker seems to be under the radar at the moment. His website is down/gone. It's too bad for us as he has some wonderful designs.

[GregW]

RE: Parker Plans
Be advised that the small sharpie plans you buy from Reuel Parker are the the exact same as are in his book, except in a larger format...or so says his previously available website.

[Honda_Shadow]

But, I mean this was a capable workboat 100 years ago, building this thing with modern materials and methods aren't going to make the boat self destruct are they? It's like 100 years ago, people used to hunt buffalo successfully with a .45/70 black powder cartridge; today that would be considered anemic, and stupid. Have the buffalo somehow gotten stronger over the years? Nope.

Yes, I'm concerned for safety, but the modern boats that I've seen just seem to not have that same nostolgic look to them that's just a no nonsense, purpose driven design. I know it sounds like I'm dead set on this design, I'm not really, I just like the appeal of older looking designs that's all.

[Bill7254]

I have a set of plans for a Parker design. I would have to look at them when I get home tonight but I think they are for a 14' boat. My final choice for my first boat project came down to the Parker sharpie or John Welsford's Houdini. I chose the Houdini for a variety of reasons but it was a hard decision to make. Anyway, I'd being willing to sell the Parker plans at a discount. If you're interested, send me a pm.

[erster]

If you want to build it with plywood, then get your pop to let us form up a jig for that stern, or a combiination of both to build a jig the for lamination. As far as suggesting you to try another route, your misses wants to be in the water next year sometime, right? ;) I think the plans were traditionally built and the stern requires a lot of compound cuts each step of the way, therefore creating another reason for going with something a bit easier. Help is only a mail away, young buck.:cool:
facsimle
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/roundsternsharpie.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/sharpiebowstem-1.jpg

[Honda_Shadow]

Hey erster! How'd that Popcicle turn out? It still amazes me how fast you work!

[Keith Wilson]

But, I mean this was a capable workboat 100 years ago, building this thing with modern materials and methods aren't going to make the boat self destruct are they?Hell no. They would have built them out of plywood 100 years ago if they had any.

[GBVT]

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/hc_skiff/index.htm
The 18' sharpie from Chapelle- in ply.

[Karl A. Hilbert]

I really like the Floridays design by Mark Fitzgerald in the back of the Parker book. The unstayed schooner rig is pretty slick. The plans show a third step just forward of the cuddy. My dream boat!

[JimD]

Over twenty years ago WB magazine did a cover story on an 18 foot plywood sharpie with a round stern in issue #67. It was based on Chapelle but was a custom design by the builder. A really pretty cat ketch rig, too.

[johnw]

I second the momination of Chappelle's 18' sharpie skiff. I had one years ago and it was a wonderful boat. Easier to build with its square stern, plenty roomy, and with about 150 square feet of sail, not overcanvassed.

On the other hand, that one's a beaut.

[Steve Paskey]

Don't know about the traditional construction, but I've done a round stern in plywood during a boatbuilding class at the Alexandria Seaport Foundation. I didn't think it was all that difficult, and I liked the looks.

Here's what we did. Side panels were 9 mm ply. We used a router to cut a step scarf in those panels, installed them on the frames, then laminated the rounded stern in place, 3 layers of 3 mm ply each. The end result was solid as a rock.

We did do a full frame for the rounded stern, but I'm not sure it was necessary.

[erster]

Building in sheet plywood is not as simple as bending around a form that is shaped to the design. A traditional barrel stave transom eliminates the issue with plywood, but requires some special fitting, and depends on the upright angle of the round stern versus the side angle of flare for the plywood and dicates the shape of the aft end of the boat. The rubrails and the compound angles all come into play when you have unlike angles from the sides to the stern.

[Rancocas]

[QUOTE=Honda_Shadow]... It's like 100 years ago, people used to hunt buffalo successfully with a .45/70 black powder cartridge; today that would be considered anemic, and stupid. Have the buffalo somehow gotten stronger over the years? Nope.

Sorry, but I just can't let this pass without a comment. The .45/70 is still a very popular hunting cartridge for big game. There are tens of thousands of Americans who use it, loaded with blackpowder, and some of them do, still today, hunt buffalo with it. Also, it is the darling of the blackpowder longrange shooting sports enthusiests. And, then there are those such as myself who eschew cartridge guns entirely, and choose to use muzzleloaders. Many a buffalo has been downed with a .54 flintlock muzzleloader.

I like the sharpie!

[erster]

Hope you are doing well Rancocas., But a bit off topic, you should see some of his big guns with blackpowder, when he dresses up in fancy garb. ;) We are coming to Nickajack lake in Jasper Tenn. late Sept. and need crew.

[Honda_Shadow]

Rancocas: Yeah, I know, I was just trying to make a point about how people perceptions seem to change over the years, but old methods still work. I certainly agree with you on the 45/70, I shoot .58 black powder all the time and certainly agree that it's good for anything from white tail deer to buffalo, even the occasional low flying aircraft if you're so inclined.

Bill 7254 mentioned a "John Welsford's Houdini." Has anyone built that or have any experience/pictures?

[JimD]

Houdini, but not exactly a sharpie:

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/houdini/photo_album.htm

[Honda_Shadow]

Well, I just got my copies of "The Gaff Rig Handbook" and "Hand, Reef, and Steer." Hopefully those will help to enlighten me about the gaff rig a little better than the plans will. The sail plan for Idie doesn't even show how the boom is supported my the mast. Incidentally, wouldn't that line get in the way while tacking? With the gaff on the opposite side of the boom support line it should be fine, but when the gaff swings to the other side in a tack, wouldn't the line prevent the sail from filling totally?

[erster]

Take a close look at the plans. I think the boom has a set of jaws on it that surrounds the mast But in due course, oh fellow, all this stuff comes together for some that are hands on folks like me in the beginning. ALso wonder down around the docks on some lakes over the weekends, and begin to look at the rigging on the boats. Also take some pictures, and take them home, and at night compare notes with the books of you actual pictures that you have taken. In the beginning, there needs to be a boat.

[johnw]

Looks like the boom has a gooseneck, but I don't see a table for it to ride on. Not sure which line you are referring to, unless it's the jib sheet.

[Honda_Shadow]

If you hear a loud bang, it's just the sound my head hitting my desk. See? This is what happens when an amateur (me) tries to pick out a plan that seems easy.

Erster, I need to take some time off of work and hang out in your shop for a couple days. There's precious few sail boats around the lakes here in Georgia, everyone is in to powerboats. I dunno, I suppose the high price of gas don't bother them.

Maybe I need to start with a windsurfer. At least THAT would be a simple design. Better yet, how about just a plain old SURF board! Nope. No ocean in north Georgia. Yep. I'm screwed.

[erster]

I don't know how much you will learn about sailing from a 12,000 rpm grinder from me. Oh but the contrary, its all possible by finding a sailing club while in the process of building, since you have almost chosen your design, and this will help you with this process. John Bell, that posts from time to time, is on one of those lakes around Atlanta, and there is a club of such. Altonna Lake if the name. There is also a lake at Hartwell, that is huge.

[johnw]

Rigging is not rocket surgery. If you're not intimidated by building the boat, rigging is a lot easier and there are plenty of books and dockside admirals to help.

[Honda_Shadow]

Well, I design residential homes for a living and I'm very comfortable in a carpentry shop, and with the plans that I have, I've got high hopes that actually building the boat will be the easy part. The sailing and rigging and such is what's going to require knee pads for all the prayers for help and patients.

[Frank E. Price]

'Scuse me if I'm missing something, but doesn't the drawing up top say the boat is a 20-footer? And at 1,700 lbs it is quite a bit heavier than the Chapelle 18-footer. And a few inches wider. That puts the sail area in the same ball park as the Chapelle boat for its size.

Frank

P.S. Way to go, Rancocas! I have a breech plug and .54 x 36" barrel I may someday add to some more pieces to make a rifle. If old age doesn't take me off first.

[botebum]

Quote-"The sailing and rigging and such is what's going to require knee pads for all the prayers for help and patients."
I'm with you on this one.
I am in the midst of drawing a fairly radical catamaran design (15'-16', sail and light power, family daysailing and fishing). The sail plan is the toughest part for me to figure. I will ask for help here once I have most of the design and construction basics figured out. Then, with the feed back on sail plan, I'll change the hull design to accept it and make compromises.
I can make anything I want out of wood, But the proper sail plan is way outta my league.

Doug

[Honda_Shadow]

Frank E. Price: Yes, the plan DOES say it's a 20 foot design, but that's including the 2 foot long bowsprit, the hull is 18 feet long. It also DOES say that she displaces 1700 pounds, BUT, that's being built traditionally with nominal lumber (mostly 1" thick) around 100 years ago. Modern construction would place her around a few hundred pounds in total displacement.

[Frank E. Price]

Sure, but the Chapelle sharpie is also 100-year old construction and displaces (at the drawn waterline) approximately 1,000 pounds. So the sail area is probably alright for the designed dispacement.

I doubt if a boat built at half or less of the designed displacement, especially a non-ballasted boat, would behave anything like the original -- unless you added back the weight in ballast. Why not build to a plan that is designed to be what you want from the get go?

Frank

P.S. I don't think I would go for the rig. I would probably put the sail area into a more traditional sharpie rig. I love the spritboom rig in my 18' sharpie. Simple, cheap, light, little windage, easy to put up and take down.

[erster]

Frank, this is an issue, old versus new boats, created by different uses, that I have addressed many times over, when discussing the changes in hull construction in many of the salty hull designs. First off, a proflie of certain design creates a lure that seems to be no difference than an 18 year old male lusting after an 18 year old girl. No matter what the outcome, the hunt and successfull aquisation is 99 percent of the act, such as these types of projects.

I have one such project in my 20 footer, over sailed, and underweight, for pleasure. In my case, I have learned to deal with these issues. My new one is still underweight, to the standards of old, including Chappelle in related sizes and shapes, and at this point no ballast is in place, until I have more time on the water to find the right mix. So its all an experiemental process, one that is ongoing in these type hull, and does not make a person or hull inferior as most hulls will always need refinements. This guy has a lot of talent and with the help of many others, will pull this one off.

[DavidF]

I built Doug Hylan's version of the Chesapeake skiff.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/p40f750c5031d1f217704137a78c3ba79/ee1bf444.jpg

Hylan's plans are beautifully drawn but they offer scant guidance for the beginner (which I am). It is just shy of 16 feet. What appealed to me, aside from being gorgeous, is how open it is inside, which is key for my and my son's fishing addiction. Being able to brail the sail quickly is nice for the fishing.

She also sails with impeccable manners (now that I have the sprit thing sorted out) and rows beautifully.

[Honda_Shadow]

HAHAHA Thanks for the encouragement Erster, but if my wife finds out I'm lusting after a boat she might make me name it after her!

[erster]

HAHAHA Thanks for the encouragement Erster, but if my wife finds out I'm lusting after a boat she might make me name it after her!

She told me that she actually married you for your money. So any lusting by you seems to be okay, since either way she wins out in the end. :D

That Hylan ain't a bad one, and a bit in line with your learning curve, and with the new work shop, you can build both at the same time, with the issue of drying times.

[Honda_Shadow]

BOTH at the same time? IF I were that brave I don't think I could fit them both in the garage at the same time. Besides that, I want to see how addictive this stuff is before I jump in over my head.

[Keith Wilson]

It also DOES say that she displaces 1700 pounds, BUT, that's being built traditionally with nominal lumber (mostly 1" thick) around 100 years ago. Modern construction would place her around a few hundred pounds in total displacement.This is a very important point about taking a 19th century sailing workboat design and converting it to a 21st century yacht (meaning a boat that you sail for fun, rather than to make a living). There are a lot of features of the old designs that made eminent sense in the context in which they were used, but may not today. A few examples: Sailing fishboats generally had to sail both very light (on the way out) and very heavy (on the way home, hopefully). Thus any design had to be able to accommodate a very wide range of displacement and still work OK - quite unlike modern pleasure sailboats, which don't carry 50 bushels of oysters very often. Many features of hull design were dictated by ease of working the fishing gear - the round stern so that the oyster tongs don't hang up on the corners of the transom, and very low freeboard so that the oysters came aboard easier. At the end of a long day, lifting the tongs another inch or two probably would have been torture. Most workboats had very large sail area with multiple reefpoints so that you could get home in very light air without a motor before the catch started to rot. Comfort and convenience when sailing were definitely secondary to making a living, and the level of risk that most sailors tolerated was a lot higher than the normal standard today.

This doesn't mean that 19th century workboat designs are necessarily bad choices for a sailboat. Some may be, some aren't. You do have to consider the reasons for the various design features. Sometimes it's necessary to modify the design to make it work well under very different conditions - adding ballast to compensate for lighter modern construction, or to replace the load of oysters, for example. Building a historically accurate replica is kind of cool, but it may or may not fit the way you'll use the boat.

[erster]

Acheving the delicate balance in the same style boat that use to sit in the water, continually, doiing what you describe, and one that must now reside on a boat trailer and be managable, without it turning into a job to maintain, launch and retrieve, is part of the fine tuning process that is required to take place, but not totally out of the question, either.

The traditional 20 foot designs are now being done by many folks, for better or worse to acheive that compromise, and being used each week with a bit more care taken for the sole intent of making them a pleasure craft for the whole family. The Cortez show also brought out some of the old work boat designs, so its not out of the question and being done in other regions of the country.

[qm]

Go for the original!!! Let them complain! Yes, do the famous "barrel stave stern" that they all chickened out on, but is a necessary feature distinguishing the class. For a "Sound"(like Beaufort/Pamlico/Long Island), the amount of canvas is not too great! I watched an original sharpie go out on Long Island Sound many of my growing up years. The Allen family was and still is very proud of the boat,aka "The Sharpie"!(from New Haven)

[qm]

Classic Sharpies, like sneakboxes, had different rigs-not all gaff! QM

[qm]

I always get excited about sharpies(see Howard Chapplle's "Small American Sailing Craft" and no other). I hope to build one myself as soon as I get this old 1830s barn put up on my old foundation sos I have a boat shop. However, I am reminded that a 18 or 20 foot sharpie is more of a popular racing "sharpie skiff" of the 1850s- 1920s, than it is aka 50 or 100 bushel work boat. Somewhere I have a newspaper photo of some sharpie skiffs pulled up on the Old Mill Beach near George Sherwood's Mill after a day of racing on Long Island Sound in the 1920s. One of the Captains was Cap Allen(a cousin) who mastered sailing ships before retiring to his Clamhouse. So the comparisons may not be accurate. QM Bob

[Three Cedars]

http://home.insightbb.com/~polysail1/images/coot.htm

[Honda_Shadow]

I actually found a painting of Idie. It's by an artist named Robert B. Dance. I realize that it's an artist's conception and all, but hey, you gotta admit, she looks HOT under way like that off Ocracoak Island. :D

(Idie is in the foreground)

http://www.robertbdance.com/silverlakefinal.jpg

[TC]

That's a nice looking sharpie but the rig looks like a handful. You're likely a more experienced sailor than I, but I'd rather have the sail area split up more. Like this traditional number, from John Gardner, "Building Classic Small Craft, Vol. 1" page 122. "A Sharpie," shown in 18-foot and 20-foot versions, round transom which would be a snap to build with layers of 3mm/0.125" ply. This has a bit less of the work-boat look, though.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid210/p109c36ffe6b26fd161e02fd048cc4dea/edb70a5c.jpg
Tim

[Honda_Shadow]

OK, see if anyone can tell me from their experience where the boom halyard is on this vessel. The Mainsheet ties in just abaft the cockpit, the peak and throat halyards are tied in on opposite sides of the mast, the jib sheet ties in on the aft, port side of the centerboard trunk after passing through a block, and the jib halyard ties in to a cleat in front of the mast even though it's not shown in the picture. Now, nowhere in my plans or descriptions does it say anything about the boom halyard. Certainly the boom is not just supported by the sail? If that's so, how is the boom and gaff supported when the sail is down? Anyone got any ideas about the boom halyard?

[Keith Wilson]

What you're referring to as the "boom halyard" is called a topping lift. There are several reasonable ways to rig it. The simplest runs from the top of the mast through a fairlead or turning block on the aft end of the boom to a cleat farther forward. Another is from the aft end of the boom to a block at the masthead, then down to a cleat at the foot of the mast. There are lots of more complex arrangements that help to contain the sail as it's being lowered: dual lifts, lazyjacks and the like, but that probably isn't necessary on boat this size. When sailing the topping lift is slack and the sail supports the boom- - in fact the trick is to get the boom to stay down; there are various arrangements to do this, but generally not on traditional gaff-rigged boats.

[Honda_Shadow]

Thanks for the help Keith. Sorry about the verbage, I'm still learning this stuff myself. Until last night I thought "Jib Sheet" was a Yiddish cuss word...

[Keith Wilson]

Yeah, it does get pretty esoteric sometimes. My favorite is a line used in one particular variation of a gaff topsail (the small triangular light-air sail above the mainsail - see the picture below) which is called, believe it or not, a "timinoggy". Someday I have to own a boat with that rig, if only to be able to growl, "Arrrrrr! Belay the timinoggy!" :D

http://www.huntjohnsendesigns.com/images/gaff_topsail.jpg

[Tom Hunter]

"Certainly the boom is not just supported by the sail?" Honda Shadow.

I have an Eastport pinky with a 548 sqr foot main and 29' boom, and the boom is supported by the sail. If memory serves the wieght of the boom was carried by the sail on every gaff rigger I have ever sailed, though in the case of some of the bigger schooners that was 10 or more years ago and I don't remember every detail of the rig any more.

When raising the main I bring the far end of the boom up off the gallows using the topping lift and then use the peak and throught halyard to raise the main. Bring them up together with the gaff more or less level, then tie off the peak and finish the throught, then finish the peak. After that release the topping lift and the sail should come down just a bit and set without creases.

I am inclinded to agree with those who say this is a lot of sail for the boat. I recall reading 19th century accounts of (bad) sharpie sailors releasing the main sheet during puffs which dropped the boom into the water tripped the boat and capsized them. The writer goes on to say that a good sharpie sailor knows to scandalize the peak, bear up and let out the main. Sounds somewhat complicated to me.

On the other hand you will have a lot of flexibility for light air. Good luck with what ever you choose.

[B_B]

Benford 18' Cat Ketch
http://www.benford.us/index.html?scp/

http://www.benford.us/images/scp-18catketch-sailplan.gif (javascript:Start('../images/scp-18catketch-sailplan-large.gif', 472, 600, '18 Cat Ketch Sailplan')) http://www.benford.us/images/scp-18catketch-plan.gif (javascript:Start('../images/scp-18catketch-plan-large.gif', 800, 308, '18 Cat Ketch Plan'))

plans available in his book "Small Craft Plans" - check it out in your library to see if you like it, then buy the book!

[Honda_Shadow]

I know I ask a TON of questions, but everyone's so helpful. OK, I just found a West Marine store like 5 miles from work. Good news: they carry tons of epoxy, BAD news, it costs more than my car is worth. ($89 for the resin and $60 for the hardener, then I gotta buy their pumps and fairing compound) Good news: they carry lots of line. BAD news, I ain't got a clue which line to use and still keep a traditional flare to the boat.

OK, my questions are:
1) What type of epoxy does everyone use?
2) What type of thickener to use (as filler and thickener for gluing purposes)
3) What type of line should I look at for the Sharpie and at least make an attempt at keeping traditional?
4) How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

[JimD]

I've been using Raka. The non-blush (or very nearly non) is worth it. Most of the brands have websites you can mail order through and save some money if you can wait a few days for shipping.

Pumps? A waste of money. Other opinions may vary.

Thickeners: I find silica, balloons, and home made wood flour are all I've ever needed.

The sweetest looking sharpie ever made is still Monroe's Egret so make something that looks like a small one of those. I like the cat ketch rig by Gardener that TC posted.

It's a moot question. A woodchuck can't chuck wood so why drive yourself crazy over things that aren't going to happen?

[Keith Wilson]

Ah, epoxy questions! Get thee to System 3's web site, http://www.systemthree.com/index_2.asp , register, (they won't spam you) and then download their "Epoxy Book". It's about 20 pages, and will tell you everything you need to know about epoxy. It's absolutely the best single short reference available. It obviously talks about System 3's products, but almost everything there will apply to all other brands as well. IMHO there isn't much difference between brands of epoxy. None of it is cheap, unfortunately. You also might want to look at the discussion of T-88 on Steve Paskey's thread.

[Honda_Shadow]

Brian: I know, I know, you sound like a friend of mine that when him and I were talking one time about motorcycles and I was trying to decide which one to buy; I had magazine articles, manufacturers specifications, internet reviews, and other stuff, he finally just told me to "Just shut up and buy the D%$# thing!" Nike's got it pretty plain and clear, just do it.

Some people may think that for their own reasons, building that particular boat with those particular sails is just two steps this side of stupid, but I don't care. I might wind up one day sounding like Forrest Gump saying "That's maw boat" but it's a good learning experience anyway. If on it's maiden voage it winds up on the bottom of Bogue Sound, I'll let folks stand in line to say "I told you so," but until then, with all the dignity I can muster, :oP

[erster]

Background report on HS: He decided to build a free standing deer blind. First step was to spend 5,000 bucks on hunting magazines to seek out just the right one for his hunting area and needs. Next he decided that none fit his butt and they were all too expenisve, ;) and so he proceeded to open up his CAD program and draw up what he wanted, figuring out all of the angles for the leg cuts, and also making sure that the deer stand project, when done, did not have 1/2" of leftover wood when he was done. He had twenty some pages of plans for the stand when he was done.

He then proceeded to purchase and cut all of the parts, numbering them to his plans, put it together, even using truss brackets and making it so he could handle the thing in sections to get it out in the middle of a field that was ten miles deep into the land. The thing has hot and cold water, toliet facilities, sattilite telephone, and a propane heater in it, when he was done. So this is just normal for him. He will be okay, really, he will be...:p

[Honda_Shadow]

THANKS Erster! YES, my middle name is OVERKILL... But hey, at least I can hunt deer in a blind that is not only built to my specifications, but it's waterproof, hurrican proof, earthquake proof, stain proof, and with my added toilet facilities, I'm the only human alive that knows what sound a poop makes when dropped from 12 feet in the air!

Can't say what this means for my boat building plans, we'll soon see!

[B_B]

Pumps? A waste of money. Other opinions may vary.

Thickeners: I find silica, balloons, and home made wood flour are all I've ever needed.

i agree with the pumps - bought two sets which were recommended with the epoxy (West) which I bought - clogged up and never pumped accurately - just measure (one to one mixes are the easiest to mix for this purpose)

i found wood flour (sanding dust) to be harder to sand than balloons...

and HS if you like the damned boat that much, don't ask us what we think! Just tell us you're building the thing! :eek: :D

and yes, she sure is sleek and purty (I love bowsprits of that modest size) and big rigs is good - no-one heads out on a daysail when its blowing hurricane strength anyway and more canvas is good when the breeze is just a promise in the air.

Good luck, and post pics!

[YMT]

http://brad.smugmug.com/photos/36961087-L.jpgA litttle larger, but shallow draft at 16" with bilge keels.http://brad.smugmug.com/photos/36961085-L.jpg

[leaotis]

I've put together a site showing construction of my 18' Sharpie. You crowd want pictures, well here you go.

http://mackhorton.com/

[sharpie]

Thanks for the link to your sharpie. It is very nicely done!

[botebum]

Thanks for resurrecting this thread. A sharpie is in my intented future and all info is appreciated.

Doug

[erster]

We shall add a little twist to an ordinary "Idie", with some modifications, in the almost done stage. Now I will be on my way.:)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/23profile.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/23starboardlookingaft.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/paintedhardtop.jpg

[JimD]

Erster, got any more pics of her in the water? Her lines look just about perfect.

[donald branscom]

But, I mean this was a capable workboat 100 years ago, building this thing with modern materials and methods aren't going to make the boat self destruct are they? It's like 100 years ago, people used to hunt buffalo successfully with a .45/70 black powder cartridge; today that would be considered anemic, and stupid. Have the buffalo somehow gotten stronger over the years? Nope.

Yes, I'm concerned for safety, but the modern boats that I've seen just seem to not have that same nostolgic look to them that's just a no nonsense, purpose driven design. I know it sounds like I'm dead set on this design, I'm not really, I just like the appeal of older looking designs that's all.

The beam to length ratio of the original sharpies was 4:1. Modern boats have beam to length ratios of 3:1. I know,I know tell me how the marinas charge by the foot and the boats are parked like cars for maximum profit and beginners are afraid to try to take the boat out for fear of hitting another expensive boat. Yes its true but there is something inbetween. The boat from a top view should not be too fat but not so skinny. I would see sharpie designs by TRACY OBrian. I built one of his boats (30ft. steel sharpie ketch) and the only thing that did not work was the mouse shaped hole in the transom for the outboard. In the ocean that well got water in it allright - lots of water, and it threatened to swamp the engine. Had to cover the hole up. It probably works in lakes where it is calm but not in the ocean.

Sincerely, Don

[donald branscom]

i agree with the pumps - bought two sets which were recommended with the epoxy (West) which I bought - clogged up and never pumped accurately - just measure (one to one mixes are the easiest to mix for this purpose)

i found wood flour (sanding dust) to be harder to sand than balloons...

and HS if you like the damned boat that much, don't ask us what we think! Just tell us you're building the thing! :eek: :D

and yes, she sure is sleek and purty (I love bowsprits of that modest size) and big rigs is good - no-one heads out on a daysail when its blowing hurricane strength anyway and more canvas is good when the breeze is just a promise in the air.

Good luck, and post pics!

25-40 kts. is not unusual in San Francisco Bay though.

[erster]

I built one of his boats (30ft. steel sharpie ketch) and the only thing that did not work was the mouse shaped hole in the transom for the outboard. In the ocean that well got water in it allright - lots of water, and it threatened to swamp the engine. Had to cover the hole up

Got that all covered in both of my hulls. We use a motor well, inside the boats. I use a dummy block that is mounted so I can remove it if I wish to use the motor. I have a nice teak handle, that allows me to just lush it down and angle it up inside the boat.

It stays in place, while under sail, mounted with hardwood pieces, three sides, with stainless steel hanger bolts run into the tops of them, and in the side of the well, I use ring bolts, bedded really good, and place wing nuts to secure them in place. The hanger bolts have a lag type thread on one end, and the machine thread on top. It takes some doing for vee hulls, with the fitting. But I use the block that I cut, and refine the fit on the edges with thickened epoxy. A bit of water always lays inside, but never gushes up at all, no matter what type of sea condition.

I have another one that fits loosely around the engine shaft, when on rare occasions I need to plug the hole. You can even just plug the hole behind the engine with the square throw cushions, too, wedged in place.

When all else fails and you need a portapotty in conjested areas, then these doubles as one of those, too. :D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/DSC00032.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/DSC00067.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/DSC00069.jpg