[Discuss] Restoring 1940 Lightning

[Trog]

'ello all, long time no type smile.gif

Well, I finally moved the 1940 Lightning that dropped into my lap (ouch) closer to home and am finally begining to get some work done on her.

Her name is "Rampage", #467, built in Skaneateles. She was a member of the Buffalo Canoe Club, Lake Erie, Point Abino, Ontario, Canada and flaunts BCC on her transom to prove it.

My 1959 Year Book shows she and her skipper done did proud in:
1949 - Runner up; Miami, Coconut Grove & Biscayne Bay Yacht Clubs
1952 - Champion; Spray Beach Yacht Club, NJ
1954 - President's Trophy Winner; Crescent Sail Club, Detroit

I don't know how the hell she made it all the way to the west coast, but she's in surprisingly good condition having done so. The last 3 years she's been on the hard, exposed to sun and rain. But the prior 10 years or so she was parked in a garage, until said garage got yanked out from under her owner. He was going to scrap her but a marina-mate gathered her up and tossed her my way. :D

Her top deck, 7/16" tongue-n-groove cedar, was oxidized all to hell so I've stripped and disposed of it. A little sanding of the sides shows good wood beneath the paint on the 3/4" (?) planks. Her insides are decently preserved due to a nice (but old) coat of varnish. And her bottom holds in the rain pretty well, so I assume she'll hold out a decent sized body of water once I get it un-painted and properly treated. smile.gif

I'm looking at taking everything down to bare wood and CPESing the living crap out of her. Everything I can attack with a brush, I'm going to give a good soaking. Then a nice, thick layer of varnish on the inside (12 coats?), followed by a red bottom and black sides (color scheme to change w/o notice.)

What gives me pause, however, is her deck. I'm not particularly interested in remaining Holy-True to her past. The whole off-white duck canvass covered cedar just doesn't do it for me. I'd like her to have a bit more... pizazz... yeah, that's it... pizazz, in her new life. :cool:

So i'm toying with the idea of laying down a sub-deck of marine-ply topped by strips of mahogany laminate glued/tacked down, separated by very thin strips of some white wood (dunno what yet). You know.. to get that sexy, sexy "Chris Craft" kinda' thang goin'. :D

Whatcha' think?

Got any suggestions on a nice white wood to go with mahogany?

Hints, tips & tricks?

[Gary E]

Good luck with the boat...they are fun.

I was in the Sea Scouts that has #352 in Cincinnati... as far as I know they still sail it.

[Dan McCosh]

I would think you wouldn't want to add any weight to the deck. The Lightning's were a simple, basic design that used varnished coamings to set off the hull and deck. Any idea who won the Crescent trophy? I'm currently a member, and this kind of stuff is interesting to our current Lightning fleet.

[Mrleft8]

I think that Mahogany and holly (That's generally what the white strips are made of) would look absurd on a lightning. Lightnings are dignified all by themselves, and need no flash. If it were me, I'd go with a canvas deck. You don't need to paint it off white. I painted the deck of my old Bluejay very light blue. The bottom was bright green racing bottom paint, and the topsides were gloss black. Verrrrrry sharp! (Too bad it didn't make her any faster, or me a better skipper!)

[MuddyFeet]

Trog, best of luck with your restoration of #467. It's nice that you could track some of her history, especially that enviable race record!

I'm restoring a much newer Lightning. My #6046 is only 50 years old. I did a bit of research on how to restore and finish her (those who are not afflicted with this disease would say I obsessed over it…). I have a couple thoughts below, but remember these questions yield opinions, not right or wrong answers.

Opinion #1) These old Lightnings look better with painted hulls, not bright hulls. And the decks look better with painted canvas or dynel/epoxy. A nice, traditional amber varnish on the spars, transom, coaming, trunk, seats, and floor slats sets off nicely against paint. That combination looks right for the boat, and done well, it’s beautiful. Not because it should be done that way to keep with her tradition, although maybe tradition has led us to expect her to look that way.

Opinion #2) I also thought about dressing her up with a bright finished deck or a teak and holly look. You can find a few examples where this was done on Lightnings and I’ve yet to see one that looks right for the boat. You may be the guy who figures it out, but it’s a lot of work to have it end up looking out of place.

Opinion #3) Not sure how much experience you’ve had with CPES, but make sure that’s what you want to do. There’s no going back once you do that. That topic gets religious and I don’t want to get a debate started again, but it’s not a given that it’s necessary or even desirable in the case of a Lightning and the way these boats are typically used. After considering all angles, I decided to finish mine with paint and varnish alone and to do the hull seams with cotton and polysulphide. Different answers for different folks, but for the ways I will use the boat and for what I want when I’m done, those answers worked for me.

In general, I try to look ahead and make sure all the things I’m doing on my boats result in something that is both beautiful and sustainable for myself and all future owners. Right now she’s suspended on slings in my garage. The insides and bottom are sanded to bare wood and I’ll start caulking the bottom seams this weekend – the cotton just came in from Jamestown. My next major steps are sanding/fairing the hull, stripping the transom varnish, and laying in dynel/epoxy as a replacement for the canvas. It will be a busy winter….

Again, good luck and keep us posted!

[Trog]

You guys don't think she'll look hot in mahogany? :(

Well, I'm not yet set on how I'm going to dress her up. Maybe I'll head down to some marinas this weekend and see if I can eyeball a herd in their natural environment. :D

As to the CPES, my idea is to preserve, as much as possible, her original wood. Some pieces, like her transom, are somewhat oxidized and I figured CPES might be one step better to ethylene glycol as a preservative/restorative and strengthener. Her stringers are in great shape but the under-deck support ribs could use some strengthening.

Unfortunately I have no experience with CPES. This will be my first adventure with it. Has anyone encountered problems going nuts with it? Word of mouth puts it on par with sliced bread.

Good advice, all around. Thanks for the input. I need all I can get. smile.gif

[Trog]

Originally posted by Dan McCosh:
Any idea who won the Crescent trophy? I'm currently a member, and this kind of stuff is interesting to our current Lightning fleet.I am delighted you asked!

In scrutinizing the year book for you I stumbled across another entry for Rampage. I'd seen the one for Newport Yacht Club, Fleet 77, Rochester, NY, "Early in June, that well known boat, 'Rampage' joined the fleet and while it could not be raced extensively this year, everyone is looking to real competition from it for the new year."

The newly found entry, which I should have noticed since it's the Buffalo Canoe Club (*smacks forehead*), Fleet 12, states in part, "At the start of the season, Fleet 12 sadly missed two of its most competitive Lightnings, #467, Rampage, which had been sold by Pete Grange to Rochester, and #3482, Bobcat II, Bob Coleman, which was sold to Hamilton, Ontario. Pete decided to sit out the season, but we hope that he will buy another Lightning soon."

Neat smile.gif

I can find no reference to a Crescent Trophy or Cup. But give me a few and I'll scan in the International Championship and President's Cup pages for a blast from the past.

Also, give me your Fleet number and I'll throw up its entry for 1959 (anyone else, feel free to pipe in, too). :D

[ 11-11-2005, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Trog ]

[Trog]

Heh. Stumbled over this via woodenboatrescue.com via the "Prudence" thread. smile.gif

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/trog/mahogany-lightning.jpg

I'm sorry. I just don't see anything unsexy about a mahogany deck. :D

[ 11-11-2005, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: Trog ]

[Jagermeister]

W O W ! B E A U T I F U L !

[Trog]

As promised, select pages from 1959

1959 Year Book.pdf (http://members.dslextreme.com/users/trog/1959%20Year%20Book.pdf)

Adobe Acrobat, ~1.9mb

Enjoy :D

[Levi]

It wont be a restoration if the original work of the designer is "sexed up" but if it satisfies you that is what is important. Plenty of antique cars are sexed up but they no longer hold the value of an antique, same way with furniture. But there is no reason "old" boats have to be restored exactly for us to enjoy them is there? Do her however you like and enjoy her!

[Trog]

That is a very good point.

I don't think she has all that much historical value. Unlike something like hull #1, Plug Nickel.

And what's her dollar value? Low number hulls I've seen are in the area of $1,500, but I'm not sure if that is in fully restored condition. I've seen plastic versions going for over $10k

o.O

I figure enhancing her a bit will just increase her value, definately to myself and maybe in the eyes of others. At least a little more than just returning her to a run-of-the-mill, baby-blue, cloth-bedecked, dime-a-dozen she once was.

Her prior fame comes from her skipper(s), not her uniqueness. smile.gif

[sdowney717]

Have fun rebuilding your boat and dont let anyone influence you away from enjoying restoring your boat. After all when it comes to wooden boats, getting it to look and function the way you want it too look and function is what it is all about.
I also dont understand the comment about not going back after using CPES? Why is this a negative?

we had a lightning number 700 something on Lake Erie in the 70's. All I remember is the boat was a loads of fun to sail and after it would go in the water in the spring would take days to seal up. The centerboard trunk area on that boat was loose and everytime we would sail her, it would creak and move around and was always wet there in the bilge. My dad eventually tore of the cracked and leaky canvas cover and put on something cloth like and thick that was brownish white with a rubbery texture using contact adhesive. When we sold the boat the new owners liked the look.