Why not clear coat hull? Lightning #7147

[Jana Shaw]

I recently came into possession of a 1958 Lightning (#7147 "Ariel"). See photos:

http://www.bakerst.org/gallery/album74

Cool, eh?

My question is this: Why don't more wooden boats have a clear coat hull instead of paint? The only boats which seem to have clear coat hulls are mahogany power boats. Does paint offer better protection than a varnish? I would think that it would look more impressive with a clear coat than paint as you might not even see that it is a wood boat from a distance! Am I missing something obvious?

[Randy Sweet]

I'm not an expert on paints/varnishes but I have had my share of challenges with them. Varnishes are not made for constant immersion and offer little or no anti-fouling capabilities. Even in fresh water, there is fungus and slime build up if some form of anitfouling is not on the bottom. Above the waterline is fine for varnish.

[Ken Hall]

Clear coating can be done. A couple of reasons you probably don't see it more often:

1. Painting hides little dings and flaws in the wood or workmanship; varnish doesn't.

2. I think, in generic terms and matching quality to quality, paint probably stands up to UV a little better than varnish. I'm not entirely confident in this assertion, though.

#1 is probably the biggest reason you don't see more bright-finished wood hulls. I am toying with doing that on the International Fireball (US#3226) that I brought home last week (yes, sports fans, I finally have a boat! :D ). I won't make a final decision until I get the hull wooded. I'll probably chicken out and paint her with hunter green porch enamel spiked with cayenne pepper. The decks, transom, and interior are finished bright and shall remain that way.

Congratulations on a fine acquisition, and good luck! And welcome to the forum.

[Chris Coose]

Initial preparation and maintenance on a clear finish takes more time than a painted finish. Wood boats offer up all sorts of challenges around and during the time you get to use them. I've found that the cosmetic list needs to be as simple and time limited as possible so I can tend to other tasks.

Looks like you got a beauty there. She's probably got quite a bit of bright work already. My eye picks up the nice contrasts clear and painted finishes make for each other.
Stick with the skeem she came with and then consider taking on a hull bright finish.
Remember it is the darker woods that look best when clean finished. Typical planking materials that are white woods (pine,cedar etc.) may be a disappointment.

[TomRobb]

Bright is pretty, and if you like the varnishing process it's worth the trouble, but if you'd rather be sailing paint holds up longer.

All those bright mahogany runabouts demand gobs of TLC. Perhaps you get points for doing your bit to beautify the world. smile.gif

[Scott Rosen]

This is one of those questions that if you have to ask it, you shouldn't even try to finish it bright.

Ugh! The short answer is that brightwork is much, much more work and no where near as durable as paint. You would have massive amounts of work to strip your hull, prep it and varnish it. There was an article in WB Magazine a few years ago about the time and materials it takes to apply a bright finish to a run-about. That would give you a good idea of why most people don't even give a thought to it.

Plus most wooden boats are not built to take a clear finish. The joinery, selection of wood, and finish details are not up to it.

Some boats don't look good finished bright. A lightning would not look good bright, in my opinion.

Finally, you can have too much of a good thing. A bright hull on a lightning is like having chocolate for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

[nedL]

Not to throw a wrench in the works, but I believe I have seen varnished Lightnings, or at least one, years ago where I grew up on the Jersey shore. I can't say it looked bad, but it did catch your eye as being different.
That aside, as already pointed out, varnish is not as durable a finish as paint so your maintenance requirements will go up.

[Jana Shaw]

Seeing is this is my first (of many?) restoration projects I *guess* I will bow to the collected wisdom and paint the hull as there are plenty of other tasks to keep me busy.

Thank you all for you input.

[Scott Rosen]

Try not to look upon a paint job as being a "lesser" finish. Varnish looks the best when it is used prudently to set off a good paint job. A good paint job looks infinitely better than a varnish job over not-so-good wood or a varnish job that lacks for maintenance.

Personally, I take more pride in my paintwork than my varnish work. Pretty much anyone can do a good varnish job if they simply take the time. That's because it takes more skill to get a really good paint job, even though it's less work and less time-consuming than a good varnish job.

[JimD]

You may wish to consider a clear coat other than varnish. I think all the big names in marine coating like Petit, Interlux, etc, now offer polyurethanes, both one and two part. Two part poly is as tough as paint (my opinion, as I use 2 part poly paint on the painted part, and 2part clear LP on the bright work). I think the clear stuff is more or less just the paint only without pigment. The clear linear polyurethanes are good UV blockers, too.

[thechemist]

Originally posted by JimD:
You may wish to consider a clear coat other than varnish. I think all the big names in marine coating like Petit, Interlux, etc, now offer polyurethanes, both one and two part. Two part poly is as tough as paint (my opinion, as I use 2 part poly paint on the painted part, and 2part clear LP on the bright work). I think the clear stuff is more or less just the paint only without pigment. The clear linear polyurethanes are good UV blockers, too.Some clear 2-part polyurethanes are formulated with the same performance-enhancing additives whether pigmented or clear. Some pigments degrade weather-performance more than others, and so some manufacturers' pigmented systems give poor performance unless clear-coated. Some clear-coats have different levels of UV absorbers, thus different degrees of protection will be given to the underlying pigmented coatings. Some pigments are more-or-less stable against UV degradation. Some clear 2-part polyurethanes lose their flexibility faster than others with age, due to UV exposure Some clear 2-part systems have different levels of UV absorbers, thus will require different dry film thicknesses to protect the color of the underlying wood.

Many factors determine the performance of any clear coating.

[JimD]

thanks, Chemist smile.gif I use a brand called Endura. Ever heard of it?

[CyberRebel]

"I'll probably chicken out and paint her with hunter green porch enamel spiked with cayenne pepper."

Okay, I'll bite... what's the cayenne for?

[wolfietuk]

I would have to agree with the less is more crowd.
Even on those expensive runabouts they use a white wood (holly) between the mahogoney planks to break up the manotany. That being said the laser is small enough you may be able to pull it off. You can always decide once it is stripped where you can look at the joinery. You might consider doing just the transom.

Rick

[Ken Hall]

'Morning, Stephen--

The cayenne is for the rare occasions when Sparrow sits overnight on a mooring or in a slip. It, um, deters things. It's a home-brew antifouling people here and elsewhere have recommended.

[thechemist]

Originally posted by JimD:
thanks, Chemist smile.gif I use a brand called Endura. Ever heard of it?No, but I am not familiar with many of the brand names in Canada. There are a couple of publications I know of that evaluate clear coatings, among other things. Get ahold of these folks and see if you can get some of their back issues that dealt with clear wood finishes.

http://www.practical-sailor.com/

http://www.consumerreports.org/main/home.jsp

[JimD]

Chemist, I'll check 'em out -jimd

[Bob Adams]

I have always beleived the amount of bright work on your boat was directly proportional to how sadistic you are. I have enough to show my boat is wooden, not enough to spend all my "spare" time working to maintain it.As to the pepper in the paint, that will help improve a cheap antifouling paint, putting it in a conventional oil based paint will provide no antifouling protection as the pepper is sealed inside the surface film.

[ 09-04-2002, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: Bob Adams ]

[Tim B]

Back before I was young, most of the racing scows sailed in the mid-west came with a modified bright finish. The hulls were primed with a light coat of white primer and then varnished. This resulted in a glossy, yellow colored hull that still showed alot of the wood grain. The main reason for the primer was that it covered alot of the imperfections, etc. in the hull. One builder, Bay Boats of Walworth, Wi, stained their hulls green instead of white. The reason given around the yatch clubs for the "green weinie" color scheme was that Bay had a reputation for using wood that the other builders passed up.

The yellow coloring kept the bright work from being overwhelming but still made a clear "wood" statement - IMHO

[Bruce Hooke]

To look good varnished the wood under the varnish needs to be selected for color and grain. This is obviously a lot more work than simply selecting a 'paint grade' board, so unless a boat was built with a clear finish in mind it will frequently not really look very good with a clear finish. I also agree with others who have said that what often looks best is a mix of paint and varnish on different parts of a boat so that each can set of the other. I think people sometimes make the mistake of thinking that all wood must be varnished just because wood in and of itself is beauty. However, the beauty of a completed object has to do with how all the parts work together, which in part often involves creating pleasing contrasts. Also, paint does a better job of showing off the curves of a hull, which should be one of the most beautiful parts of most boats. The reason paint is better at this is because we see the form in large part through the subtle play of light and shadow, which gets lost on a vanished surface. Finally, some boats have traditionally been varnished and others have traditionally been painted and these traditions are worth keeping in mind, if for no other reason than that most people in part relate beauty to what is familiar to them.

[Scott Rosen]

If you put cayenne pepper in your paint, the guy who has to sand it, breath the dust, and refinish it, won't be happy.

[JimD]

Originally posted by Scott Rosen:
If you put cayenne pepper in your paint, the guy who has to sand it, breath the dust, and refinish it, won't be happy.True enuff, Scott, but it might help keep the bears away :D (wear a respirator when sanding old paint? :( )

[Steve Lansdowne]

Some folks seem to enjoy "working on" their boats more than they do having them in the water and using them as they were "intended." If you're one of these, an exterior clear coat might be OK, though getting the old paint off to the point where the clear coat shows off the wood and not bits of paint would be quite a job.

[Tomcat]

I like bright boats, but practicality forces me towards paint. As a designer, however, I like paint, because it generally allows the boat's lines to stand out better. Imagine looking at a Rozinante with your best friend, his gaze gradualy fixes on a hull plank or two and he exclaims "wow, look at that beautiful wood!". No harm in that, but I can get that reaction from a 6" turned bowl. It seems to miss the point a little.