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View Full Version : Dove standing rigging quandry.



Joe (SoCal)
07-23-2006, 07:21 AM
First take a look at the Atkin's plan:

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/images/ActiveIII-1.gif

AS mentioned before the triatic is very important. In the image above the rigging wire goes from the top of the main to about 1/3 down on the mizzen. A bit of a bitch to rig the mast's individually, since you cant reach that high even standing on the thwarts. So at some point ( I thought ) someone thought of a great idea and put the connection to the mizzen lower with this little bit of hardware.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid210/pac2606f9a5ea1fb3791c64d3e4896c67/ede331c1.jpg

It seemed perfect for the triatic it even had a nice little turnbuckle to tension and tune the rig just so. There was a beautiful splice peice of rigging wire that at first glanced looked to be about the perfect length to connect the triatic. So yesterday I rigged it to the top of the main with a clevis pin that was marked for that spot. Ran the wire down to the turnbuckel and as you can see I was left with a LOT of slack I would say a good 6 to 8 inches. :confused:

Its going to be really hard to see it in this photo but maybe you can get the idea.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid210/p00661b597c1999486332a26c1567676d/ede331ff.jpg

So what do I need to do?

Also in the Atkin plan there looks to be an additional forstay. Why ? There is a bronze loop on the front part of the shroud ring towards the top half of the main, but no wire was in the box of rigging. Also the only place to attach it would be this bronze eye on the deck just aft of the stem.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid210/p6405f7079857f3b0fcf432e10df201f8/ede32f59.jpg

So does anyone have a clue? Oh and please please try to tell me in english Ian ;)

Hwyl
07-23-2006, 07:32 AM
Joe, what you call the "shroud ring" is actually called the "hounds", great word, I'd us it, sometimes called the mast band.

As to the triatic, the fitting you show is not right for the triatic, the screws would be in (mostly) tension and they should be in (mostly) shear.

Remember Ian's verbose post, he talked about a turning block further up the mizzen mast, with the wire coming down to a turnbuckle at a convenient height. That fitting looks right for that kind of arrangement.

So I'd say you're missing some kind of loop for redirecting the pull of the triatic.

Joe (SoCal)
07-23-2006, 08:00 AM
Hmm A little block from the "hounds" on the mizzen that might do it. Like I said there is a little extra part forward that has a hole in it I could rig one of the bronze blocks there and then have the wire pass through and come down to the turnbuckle. Is that what you are saying? That way the tension on the turnbuckle plate would be correct too.

The only thing I hope is that the wire is LONG enough now :rolleyes:

S/V Laura Ellen
07-23-2006, 08:11 AM
The rake of the mail (forward) mast tooks wrong when compared with the line drawing. By taking the rake out of the mast the distance between the masts will increase and tighten the triatic.

outofthenorm
07-23-2006, 08:27 AM
Joe, the mast rake looked wrong to me as well. I see from the drawing that they are not parallel. The main is pretty well vertical and the mizzen is raked aft. That will have a big effect on lengths. Regarding the idea above about running the triatic through a block at the mizzen hounds - it's good, but it will only work if you fit the lower shrouds on the mizzen as shown on the plan. From the photo, it doesn't look like they are there. Without them, the hounds will be free to move forward and you won't get any tension on the triatic. The line of force has to be continuous from the foredeck to the main truck to the mizzen to the aft deck. BTW, that's why the second inner forestay is there - to complete the path from the foredeck to the main hounds to the hull.

- Norm

Joe (SoCal)
07-23-2006, 09:00 AM
HEY THANKS guys I fixed the problem.

There was a little bronze block with a shackle that fit in the forward "Hounds" hole on the Mizzen. Then I ran the triatic wire through it and it fit JUST PERFECT.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid210/pf84a12ddcd701e6031fd1c1bfb21a534/ede0e516.jpg

Little block on the Mizzen

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid210/p549cad577b076dd2a36bd791fbbfab57/ede0e5ec.jpg

Wire before tensioning on the Main

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid210/p6f99534929b3bbf1c0265e6dcafe8a12/ede0e5b1.jpg

Down to the tensioning turnbuckle on the Mizzen.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid210/p66bcf126455cdf527e4151ba04e5b40e/ede0e632.jpg

Thanks a lot it all make sense now.
All I have yet to figure out is that second halyard on the main and where & how it hooks up.


OH, and I don't have the Mizzen shrouds hooked up so the rake is not all set up yet. Im working the rigging plan from for to aft so they go on next.

S/V Laura Ellen
07-23-2006, 09:14 AM
looking good! the bronze fittings have been brought back to showroom condition, nice job!

Joe (SoCal)
07-23-2006, 09:19 AM
looking good! the bronze fittings have been brought back to showroom condition, nice job!

WoodenBoat showroom condition ;)

I still have lots more lil bits to polish. Including the mizzen turnbuckles and lots of lil blocks and bits.

Buddy Sharpton
07-23-2006, 09:46 AM
You might find running that wire through a block and then down won't really"pin" the mast positively- it can" roll" a bit for and aft. Depends on how well it needs to be tuned, but you could use a wire with a little swaged ball in the "right" spot and a rope tail leading to a cleat lower. There's a little dinghy halyard fitting that screws to the anchor point aloft. You pull the tail, then the wire thru the fittings keyhole slot. Get the ball below the slot and let go and it lockes the ball. No compression left on the mast from the halyard tail, just snug it off gently to a cleat.

Ian McColgin
07-24-2006, 05:58 AM
I've had two boats with triadics rigged this way and sailed and rigged several others. There is not a problem with mast movement as the wire has so little stretch and the triadic is opposed by the mizzen shrouds.

Good job.

KNOCKABOUT
07-24-2006, 07:55 AM
Straighten up those screws Joe...

paladin
07-24-2006, 09:27 AM
after you rig and de-rig the boat a couple of times, figure out how much time it takes from trailer to water and back......then consider small hyfield levers below the turnbuckles to chainplate attachment points for rapidly standing the mast, engaging the levers and activate them........

Hwyl
07-24-2006, 08:41 PM
Straighten up those screws Joe...

I thought of saying that too, I'd have had them straight, but I can already imagine the tangential discussion.

Joe (SoCal)
07-24-2006, 08:45 PM
Straighten up those screws Joe...

You guys need to sail more and screw less. ;)

Figment
07-24-2006, 08:51 PM
after you rig and de-rig the boat a couple of times, figure out how much time it takes from trailer to water and back......then consider small hyfield levers below the turnbuckles to chainplate attachment points for rapidly standing the mast, engaging the levers and activate them........

Ayup. I had levers on the shrouds of my last beach cat. I kicked myself hard for not investing in them for the other two.
ANYTHING that reduces setup and breakdown time at the launch ramp is worth its weight in gold. There's something really satisfying about yelling at the PWCs ahead of you to quit holding up the line. :)

Joe (SoCal)
07-24-2006, 09:01 PM
OK so tell me more about these levers on the shrouds. What do they look like where can I get them and are they cool and can I get them in bronze ????? Come on what's taking you so long ?

paladin
07-24-2006, 09:14 PM
Joe, I think Schaffer or Ronstan makes them. What size is the wire and I'll try to getcha the info for the proper stuff....and if MattJ comes by maybe even find something your size...I have a couple or three store bought units but I made the big ones in the garage....er...uh...boatshop...:D