Canvas Canoe

[gary porter]

Looking for some advice here. A friend called this weekend and is looking to recover
an old canvas covered Freighter Canoe with glass and epoxy. I told him that I thought it
should be recovered as it was originally with canvas and that the epoxy/glass would not
likely work well do to wood movement. I've not done any canvas work myself but have done
plenty of fiberglass on wood but only on the likes of marine plywood. The canoe is thin
cedar and painted on the inside with many ribs. I just can't see the fiberglass being able
to hold without cracking. Still, I read where people do just that. (Steward, Boatbuilding)
Does anyone here have any experience with this sort of boat and recovering.
Any help or advice would certainly be appreciated. I plan to go see the boat this week and
would like to pass on any words of wisdom from you folks.
Thanks,,,,,Gary

[Fitz]

There is great debate about this topic at the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association website. www.wcha.org (http://www.wcha.org) Use the search thingy on the Forum. There also maybe a FAQ on that topic.

In general, most folks feel you are better off with canvas. Rather than rehash the arguments, I'll send you off in that direction...

[Chris Coose]

Wood canoe heritage association (http://forums.wcha.org/index.php?s=46ae0bf8d1ab4cbf979e30157cf12ee6)

Gary,
Is the guy a traditionalist?
Please impress upon him the historic importance this boat may have and fiberglassing it will likely doom that importance.

If he is not likely to restore this boat, offer that there are some around who might and he ought to let it go for a conoe of more versatility (that's code for anything but wood and canvas).

Restoring a wood /canvas conoe is a real joy and can be done by anybody with basic skills, some time and a couple of well places stout posts.
It does take more work and skill than a fg job but the outcome is very noble.

[Keith Wilson]

OTOH, a fiberglass and epoxy job will work (keep the water out, hold together) if carefully done. There are manufacturers who build something very like the wooden part of a wood-and-canvas canoe, then cover the whole thing with fiberglass, just like a strip-planked boat. I've seen quite a few older wood-canvas boats repaired that way, and it seems to work fine. The planks are thin enough so that the epoxy-wood bond holds very well.

Whether it's a good idea or not, well, I can see both sides. I probably wouldn't do it if it were my boat.

[Gary E]

Gary,

I found such a 20 ft canoe on the banks of a river when I was 18 or so.. it had a 4 in dia tree limb stuck thru one place and a few other holes in it, I asked a nearby house if it was for sale, the lady said, well, it does belong to my son.. I said I'd give ya $10.. (this was the late 50's) she said cash?..

Got it home and started cleaning it up just as Dad came home, all he said was... "where'd ya get the firewood?" ... well, I patched it up and fiberglased it wit material's from Herters, made the color OD right in the resin as I wanted to drag it thru all the rocks and such and not bother with a purty canoe, just wanted tuff and one that wont skeer off the ducks... Best thing I ever did, yes it weighd a lot, but ya see I was 18 or so.. 6'6...270 and even ifin it weighed a lot.. was no trouble...

That canoe went throug a lot, and even into areas of Canada.. great fun...

Good luck to you and your friend...

G

[helvit]

Gary, you note that you see the glass cover cracking since the boat is of thin cedar and many light ribs, and I believe you're on the right track.

If you've used these boats under a variety of conditions, you can appreciate the way they feel. I've contentedly used some excellent modern canoes of modern materials over long distances, but a good wood and canvas canoe is alive in the water, and I'd guess that would be snuffed by a stiff cover.

[Todd Bradshaw]

Having done such a process twice to the same canoe, once in about 1975, improperly, and then again the right way a few years ago after about 25 years of building strippers, I can tell you that it's among the most difficult fiberglassing jobs you can choose if you want to really do it well.

Every little plank seam gap and every hollow where there is a tack head should be filled and leveled-off before glassing and you should be very adept at sanding filler coats without cutting into the cloth or you're going to have a mess on your hands. On most old canoes, there are also irregularities in the planked outer surface which are taller than the thickness of the layer of glass which you are about to apply and these will need to be dealt with before fiberglassing.

The finished boat will be difficult to repair, quite vulnerable to damage from standing water inside, requiring impecable interior varnish maintenance and unfortunately among the circles of those who collect and restore such boats, it will lose the vast majority of it's value - regardless of how good your glassing job is.

Freight canoes are actually fairly rare, since most of them lived hard lives and got "used up". If this thing is in reasonable shape, it would be a much wiser choice for your friend to restore it with canvas to as close as he can come to it's original condition, all the way down to the paint color - or to sell it to someone who will and use the money to buy a more appropriate boat for his needs. If he intends to keep it, it's still a far safer move to recanvas than to fiberglass it.

[ 10-06-2003, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: Todd Bradshaw ]

[gary porter]

Thanks for all the input...that is a nice site there for the WCHA. I don't think I'd call him a traditionalist as such would probably not consider the glass covering of this type boat.
It sounded like this canoe was in not too bad of condition so it doesn't seem like a good choice to totally change it by adding enough glass and epoxy to make it work. Not sure if the owner would consider selling it but I think I'll ask. There is another one in a sporting goods store here in town that someone started to work on by replacing the fastenings with stainless screws of some sort. They gave up and hung it from the ceiling which is causing the hull to somewhat disstort. The boat in question has been used a lot and with an outboard engine in rivers like the Yukon etc. As I suspected it is a very flexible boat when hitting waves etc. which seems to make it a poor choice for the fiberglass. The friend I talked to , who is not the owner but plans on doing the work, is capable but also has mixed feelings about doing such. Seems like it would be a fun project to restore it back to original as well as being worthwhile.
Thanks again for all the good input and I'll be passing it along.
Gary