Help - Interior Changes to Strip Planked Hull

[warrior]

Hello,
I have a strip planked cruising yacht 26 feet in length. She is cedar strip, and is well glass ed inside and out, and she has a plywood glassed deck and cabintop.

The interior furniture is all glassed and bonded into the hull interior which apparently adds to the strength and stiffness of the hull.

Unfortunately I CAN NOT STAND the layout. The berths, cooker, sink, chart table are all in the wrong place for my tastes, especially as I will be living aboard. Is it possible to "rip out" and "move" the interior to how I want it on a boat of this construction without compromising the strength of the hull? What I basically want to do is move the aft berths amidships, and move the Galley and Chart-table aft - which is the exact opposite to what they are now.

I also want to add two full length stringers while I'm at it.

Any advice very very much appreciated.

[On Vacation]

The type of glass has a lot to do with the combination of strip thicknesses to understand if the glass only coats or functions as a structual feature. First off, we need to know the actual hull type. If it is a one off hull, tell us the type of framing in it. It maybe that some of the structual parts of the layouts, serves as the framing and structual integrity of the hull. You can change layouts, but you must address the unigue nature of the original construction, to determine the extreme modifications that you can make ot it.

[NormMessinger]

Hi warrior. I see this is your first post. You may know you will get a variety of opinions to any given question around here. Have you been lurking long enough to know Mike (Oyster) knows what he is talking about?

Sam Devlin ( http://www.devlinboat.com/ ) builds boats much as you describe except the hulls of his boats are plywood. Much of the internal furnature and hull are bonded together to form the structure. As Mike says you can rip your interior out and replace it IF you replace the structure in the process. It would help if you could post pictures otherwise our opinions are mostly guesses.

[warrior]

Hello,
I would say the Glass is definitely a structural feature. I will tell you as much as I know ....she has a Kauri Pine Backbone/Keelson; the hull itself is strip planked W/R Cedar glued and screwed and is a maximum of 1" thick, then there is the substantial GRP cladding (biaxial?) inside and out. From my minimal experience the Glassed in Interior furniture is really a replacement for transverse framing and stringers. I think you would call it an "Eggshell" type structure.
I don't know how to post pics but maybe I can get my computer whizz brother to help me post interior pics.
Thanks again for any help.

[On Vacation]

Without seeing this boat up close, or photos of it, I will attempt to assume several items here. Per your response of biaxall cloth, I assume the hull interior parts are glassed in, and creates a part of the hull integrity. You can gut the whole inside, but leaving parts of the existing bulkheads-thwarts for bunks, cabinets, and solid bulkheads as parts of ribs and frames.

You may need to add to these leftover parts, and add several more, if this leaves you with more open spaces in the new layouts than exists now. I would also stiffen up to the overhead decks, by gusset reinforced knees to the sides, where it will come in contact with the glassed ribs. The beauty of these types of hulls, that being wood-epoxy glass, you can make modifications to them, and beef them up, prime and paint, and never know the difference in them

Are you aware of the builder or the designer of the hull? What year is it? If it is a recent hull, go back to the original designer-builder if both, and throw these new thoughts at him or her. It is very hard to steer you in the right direction, though, so far away from your vessel.

As a great alterantive, I would really find a good marine surveyor, and get a one on one professional opinion on this matter. Please take my words with a grain of salt. Get several opinions, even if you have to pay for them, before you leap.

edited to add: Norm, you make it tough. HEHE ;)

[ 12-15-2003, 12:31 AM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

[warrior]

Hello
Oyster, at the risk of sounding like a complete idiot,when you say: "gusset reinforced knees to the sides, where it will come in contact with the glassed ribs"......
Glassed Ribs? I don't hink there are any glassed ribs. If by ribs your are meaning the frames that transverse beamwise across the hell from port to starboard, then I don't think there are any in my boat. There arne't eveny any floors. My Hull interior is completely smooth apart from the interior furniture and bulkeads that are glassed to the hull.

[On Vacation]

Questions: what part of the hull is stripped with strips? inside where the bunks and components are or outside with the hull paint is located? Single strip planked hulls, glassed on both inside and outside need something to make a form or skeleton to make the intregal part of the hull structual. I am starting to think if the inside of this hull is stripped, the outside is skinned with a veneer on a diagonal, if there are no structual skeleton frames in this boat. Is this a sailboat or cabin style trawler, hard chime, or round bottom bilge boat?

Many times a laminted hull, with a framless skelton, can also have longitual battens, long 1x2 pieces, running fore and aft, and then a veneer glued to that and the strips on the outside, and then glassed. It sounds like this is the case, if you are telling me that the bunks and cabinetry is glassed to the hull sides. Answer this and then we can adress the additional framing that you may need in modifying the layout in this boat. I have also e-mailed you an address to e-mail me a picture of this boat, for clarification on this hull.

[ 12-15-2003, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

[Buddy]

Can you do us a little detective work please. It is entirely possible to have a strip plank or cold molded hull built over temporary molds creating a strong ,if somewhat limber "shell" to which the interior bulkheads and furniture are then added. I have had a 22 and presently a 15 footer built this way. The modern trend is to build these boats over bulkheads and partial frames which remain with the boat, eliminating the perceived wasted time and materials.
If your boat is of the former discipline, it will be more practical and less worrisome of losing its shape. If the interior glass reinforcements run straight through the hull, under the bulkheada, and on out the ends of the hull, with additional layers tabbing the bulkheads to that initial layer of glass, BINGO, you've got the "old style" and it's a lot less complicated to proceed. The hull is going to keep its shape- you've just got to keep an eye on not changing the fore and aft weights beyond practical trimming range. Not very likely a problem. You aren't moving engines or tanks are you?
If the attachment of the bulkheads is directly wood to wood contact with the hull strips, I'll bet it was built over those bulkheads. You've got to stabilise the hull shape against springing out of shape as you cut away, so you can replace parts to hold in that shape. More of a problem if this is a lightweight boat pushing the design envelope. You also have to be more carefully about putting back just as much "beef" as you remove, and in suitable places.In particular, consider the span of the "panels" between the bulkheads and frames, as bulit and as you intend. If that span increaes, its possible the hull thickness will be undersize for theat area, and additional framing, those gussets Oyster has mentioned, or longitudinal stringers will be needed to reduce that unsupported span to approximate original construction.

[On Vacation]

With that in mind, Buddy, the cabin would have to be somewhat small, with a main bulkhead midships, and aft teh raised decking has some structure to reinforce the hull to deck area, to keep from twisting to badly. What we don't know is if this the back area is actually decked over at deck height. He stated that it was a small cruising boat, Sail, power? We don't have enough information. But one thing of thought is that if this is all open, with no stiffeners that go from waterline to top decking, it may have overhead cabinets in the foward section, or this is a very small cabin foward, and the main bulkhead is carrying the loads, of the hull, with thicker strips than normal.

This is all hypothical, and speculation at this time. What type of hulls are you speaking about in you case, Buddy?One thing for sure, I would never build a strip plank hull with nothing tying in the bottom to the top, unless reinforced with either longitual battens or some small reinforced ribbands in the sides, of the hull. He states that it has a large keel. Well if the cabin extends more than one third of its length, 26 feet, that is over weight feet, then above the sink area, berth and table I would also specualate this hull is free floating around 3 feet, which to me, is very marginal at best. You are asking even one layer of 18 oz biaxall to do a lot on probably 5/8" to 3/4"thick finished cedar??? if the hull is one inche at best, as statedadding glass, fairing and paint. Just thinking out loud, here. Suspense is killing me.....tap, tap,tap..... ;)

[Paul Scheuer]

I think we need pictures here. Warrior, maybe you could post a picture in the "My Wooden Boat" collection. It's a lot easier than trying to figure out the photo linking process. Go to the home page, and it will walk you through the process.

[warrior]

I bought the boat with Hull, Cockpit, Deck Interior all completed; but no Rigging or Deck Hardware. I bought it off a retired Boatbuilder here in Auckland, New Zealand (who saw a picture of the design in a book and decided to order the plans and build it for possible offshore sailing before he got too old).
The designer is Chuck Paine. The design is called a "Frances 26".
She has a full keel with a slightly cut away forefoot.
While mine is Wood/GRP composite - Morrris Yachts of Maine used to build them in all GRP, and so used to Victoria Yachts of England. The English class her somewhere in between a Contessa 26 and a Laurent Giles Vertue, even though the Frances is a double-ender. She Displ:6,800 lb (light); Keel is 3,500lb - 51% ballast ratio. There is the original flush deck version with no standing headroom, or the cabinroof version (mine) with about 5'10" headroom which suits me fine as I'm a short at 5'8".
While I try to figure out how to post actual pic of my Yacht, I have found on the web a couple of sisterships in GRP on these sites as follows: http://members.rennlist.com/tweedt/boat.htm
http://home.att.net/~seagypsy2/gallery/sailing.html
Give me a few days I I'll try to get my pics posted.
Thanks fellas.

[warrior]

I should add that I did get the boat surveyed before purchase (the old fellas health got in the way of his offhsore sialing dream) and the surveyor remarked in his report that the "Bulkheads and Interior Furniture provide transverse framing, however I reccommend some strenghening around the mast step" ........and then he goes on about add a few glassed in plywood strengthing floors stec, but I am going to adda couple of full lenght stringers for security sake.

[Buddy]

The 22 footer is a 3300 pound performance club racer. The "main bulkhead was a one piece up to berth height, two upper halves outboard of the cabin capturing chainplates on cabin sides. These parts bolted to each other just above berths, tabbed to hull. A daggerboard trunk also functions as a compression post to the deck stepped 34'5" mast. I have had this girl since 1977 and no failures. Nothing flexes or pants. Longitudinal stringerrs in bilges to reduce panel sizes. A small "mid" bulkhead just aft of the bridgedeck in cockpit.
Warrior's boat sounds twice as big, and with a 51% ballast ratio, I bet none too overbuilt upstairs either. Judging by the sistership site, some of the bulkheads are built in as mold stations as well. But 1" thick stringers is "stout" for a 25 footer, but about right to have meat to edge nail. But 3/4" would seem more usual to me for a 25 footer.

[On Vacation]

This is a cold moulded hull built with veneers glued on a bias.
http://members.rennlist.com/tweedt/tollong2.jpg

The hull was to be built of 5 layers of Western Red Cedar veneers, each layer an 1/8" thick and epoxy-glued together in a "double-diagonal" pattern, to make a very strong and lightweight monocoque shell of "cold-molded" plywood, but first we needed to define the shape. The temporary station molds above do that, and then the keelson, fixed bulkheads, and longitudinal stringers are attached to them
1" x 1" longitudinals were scarfed full-length and attached at bow and stern and glued to the permanent bulkheads

[warrior]

Ah Oyster you obviously got that pic from Tom Tweeds Website of his Cold Molded "Frances 26". I can tell you the interior of mine looks nothing like his. All those ribby beams lenghtwise along the hull are not there in my Frances.

[On Vacation]

BUt can you tell if the actual hull parts are running on a diagonal? If so that is not what we call strip planked, unless the fore and aft strips are glued on the ouside of the first layer. If your boat has small strips fore and aft inside with no veneers on the outside, I would add some small ribbands on the inside of your hull, if you want my opinion.

[warrior]

I defintely want your opinion Oyster - much appreciated!
"edge glued and screwed" is the how the planking construction process was described in my Survey (which I don't have with me - its at home and I'm in the office!) I am pretty sure this is the updated strip planking with lots of gooey glue "west system" they call it dont they or a similar version.
By the way, the surveyor reccommended mahogany floors or similar around the mast step, not plywood. The plywood is to bel glassed in beamwiseunder the deck around the mast area.

[Ian Wright]

See? Epoxy and wood, wood and epoxy,,,,,,,, I told you no good would come of it, but did you listen? No, you did not. Well, on your own head be it, and next time build plank on frame.
I'm to the Admiral Benbow for a flagon of ale and dose me piles with stockholm tar,,,har-har Jim lad, smart as paint you be and no mistake!
How d'ye spell schardenfreud,,,,,,,,?

IanW

[warrior]

OK I just spoke to my brother. He has a digital camera and he will take some pics and post them on here for me in the "My Boat" section. Unfortunately he won't be available until the family get together on Christmas Day! Oh well, not too long to wait.

[Buddy]

OK Warrior. We visualise a strip planked boat. Were any of the bulkheads you're considering moving used in lieu of mold patterns at those stations and actually fastened at the outset to the planks?

I'll bet she's plenty stiff, especially longways. I'd consider the following remodeling sequence. 1)Cutting away existing fore and aft furniture you're not going to use.. 2) Then build in new bulkheads, partial bulkheads, athwartship furniture parts, any ring frames to lock in the cross section shape. 3) Cut out bulkheads you're removing. 4) Build in new fore and aft longitudinal pieces: berth tops, counters,
stringers, berth and cabinet fronts and the like.
With that sequence , I don't think you'll have any problems with keeping the hull shape. You're not removing the deck or the house so the shear isn't going to move an iota.

[On Vacation]

Originally posted by Ian Wright:
See? Epoxy and wood, wood and epoxy,,,,,,,, I told you no good would come of it, but did you listen? No, you did not. Well, on your own head be it, and next time build plank on frame.
I'm to the Admiral Benbow for a flagon of ale and dose me piles with stockholm tar,,,har-har Jim lad, smart as paint you be and no mistake!
How d'ye spell schardenfreud,,,,,,,,?

IanWWhats bad came from wood-epoxy, epoxy wood? It appears the boat has more room in it, without ribframes, and space can be maximized. You ain't flogging me. Have you plank on frame, leaker, caulker, in water docker.
;)

[warrior]

There is a full length bulkhead up forward which separates the chain locker and the forward v-berths, then as you look aft there are bulkheads port & starboard where the v-berths end and the chartable (port) and Galley (starboard) start. Then contuing to look aft there are tow smaller (partial) bulkheads where the Chart table/Galley end and the port and starboard quarterberths are attached to these. It is these two partial bulkheads that are going to have to be cut out and moved. I want the existing quarter berths to be moved amidships and the galley moved aft. The Chartable/Naviagation is huge, far too big on a vessel this size and wastes a lot of space.
But I am going to leave the full length bulkhead up forward and the v-berth & their respective bulkheads as they are.

[Buddy]

Wouldn't you be able to trim down to berth level those partial bulkheads, and then add any new ones to fill in under the berths you're fitting? This doesn't sound like perilous alterations at all. Good liuck.

[jwaldin]

At the risk of asking the obvious, are you a wood worker or a finish carpenter? Do you have any experience in finishing boat interiors? Do you have the equipment to complete this, as Oyster says "extreme' modification?
If you do have the necessary skills to do this project I wonder why you ask certain questions.
If you don't have the skills and equipment and money may I suggest with all do respect you consider selling the boat and buying one that better meets your needs.

[warrior]

With all due respect, JWaldin - I put a post on here asking a question about changing around parts of my boats interior. Some people have been very kind enough to reply and shown some interest in my project, and obviously others who have no interest have not bothered to reply.
So I ask - why did you bother to read my post and post your rather patronising reply? I would ask you to just move on please.
I think I have made it plain in my posts that I am inexperienced when it comes to boat construction. I am sorry if some of my boating language is not quite right. And oh yes - gee I'd love to be able to just change boats at a whim - maybe if you send me a large numbered cheque?
Quite frankly you sound like one of the snobby "Yachtie" types who loves to sail around the yacht club bar.
Go and patronise somebody else please.

[jwaldin]

How much do you need?
In fact, my response to you was not patronizing. I was asking the questions you should be asking yourself.
Have a good time 'renovating' your boat. When you're done how about posting some before and after photos.
Happy sailing.

[jwaldin]

Yup I'm just a pratt. Don't know anything about boats. I do know where the bar is at my yacht club though. As a matter of fact I'd would like to invite you to become a member of the RICC of which I'm the Comodore.
Go to Yachting World magazine on goggle, register, go to forums, you'll find us there. You sound like the perfect member and do I have an appointment just for you. You can be the official in charge club house renovations.
RICC stands for 'Royale Internet Cruising Club'

[jwaldin]

Just so there's no hard feelings give us a kiss then.

[warrior]

OK J/Waldin, no hard feelings. I'm game for your advice. Tell me about your Sailing experience, your boatbuilding experience - and how you got started in both those pursuits.
What would you tell a young/youngish guy with a bit of dream, who saw an opportunity to buy the best seaworthy design he could afford, who has not much boat construction experience - but would like to change the boats interior around a wee bit to make it a bit more habitable for long term and long distance voyaging.
If you answer is going to be "don't bother with it son - buy another boat" ....well I need just a wee bit more depth to yur answer than that.

[warrior]

By the way JWaldin, what you doing up at this time of the hour. If your in USA then it must be some ungodly time of the morning.
I am in Auckland, NZ, home to the best Sailors in the world, even if they are bought off by rich men in Europe.
Looking forward to your advice anyway.
Didn't see you two extra abusive posts when I posted my apologies.
Don't know why someone asking questions about boat interiros has got you so upset.
Settle down and have a couple Aspirin.

[jwaldin]

It's about 7:30 PM here Wed night so I can hang on for a bit longer.
I haven't been posting on WB for too long but what I do post is based on 50 plus years of boat building, marine salvage,commercial fishing,heavy equipment operating,tug boat operating, marine mechanic,boat building ( I once took a Colin Archer designed 32'er and scaled it down to 13/16ths. Changed the offsets.
There are a lot of very experienced men on this forum who can give you excellent advice on anything to do with wooden boats.
At my age the "future is already a thing of the past" as Bob Dylan said. I see people posting here who never will build a boat. They have a fantasy and that's great. When anyone posts here and asks for an honest opinion I give it if I choose. Otherwise it's just mental masturbation.
Been there done that.
I hope you get a real kick out of your experience with your boat and I really mean that.

[On Vacation]

Originally posted by warrior:
OK J/Waldin, no hard feelings. I'm game for your advice. Tell me about your Sailing experience, your boatbuilding experience - and how you got started in both those pursuits.
What would you tell a young/youngish guy with a bit of dream, who saw an opportunity to buy the best seaworthy design he could afford, who has not much boat construction experience - but would like to change the boats interior around a wee bit to make it a bit more habitable for long term and long distance voyaging.
If you answer is going to be "don't bother with it son - buy another boat" ....well I need just a wee bit more depth to yur answer than that.Wrongs;
1.Taking a boat, that is perfectly floatable and workable, with little or no knowledge, and rip it apart.

2.Determining that a boat is wrong without using it, or if so this was not stated to us.

3.Determining with two or three posts, the proper approach to take with general information that needs clarification.

Remember the asking and planning is the easiest part. After cutting its too late, unless you know you are headed in the right direction.

But this is not for me determine in responding to a person that has just posted there on a board supplied for people to retreive information. This, also, can be determined, after some questions. Unlike some folks, I am not a mind reader or a brilliant light post in accessing personal experience with their hands and knowledge in terminology sometimes.

When someone post that they have a boat that appeared to be in good condition, and posts what I would say some confusing information, at least to me, I am very cautious to respond anymore with any advice without some real clarification.

One of things that goes on here on this board, is to jump on someone without quesitons or just say don't do it. If no one worked on their boats, or updated their boats, we would not all be here.

Limited epxperience for me says to use the boat a season and determine what you need to do to it. Short of doing that, proper planning is crucial for success of a redo, for a boat that sounds like it worked fine, with a little needed maintainance. I went the extra and sent you an private e-mail address, for your convenience with no response in two days. Yes we all live busy lives, but I took it that you had apprehensions with your ideas. Good luck with any approach you desire to take.

Maybe I will check out your link, JWaldin.

[Buddy]

Whew Warrior, it seems to have kicked up a bit since I last popped in. Sorry for that. I've spent a bit of my time in the yacht club bar, and have learned quite a bit of whys and wisdom there too, as well as on the race course or in the boat yard.
Sounds like you somewhat younger and newer to the sport than me so forgive this long winded reply, but I'd like to preserve your enthusiasm.
There is nothing like owning your own boat, and then gradually making her really your own with modifications and improvements uniquely suited to you. I've seen people( owning the same boat at the same marina) satisfied with just painting the shear stripe a color the factory didn't offer or adding five feet to the mast with all new sails, changing the rating and performance characteristics completely- both real happy. What you are considering falls between the too.
Now these are only my opinions, but formed over forty years of sailing activity , both intense and less so.
Broadly speaking some folks enjoy using their boats , some folks enjoy working on their boats more.
It's never time wasted to use what you have, as it is, first. You will suddenly realise why this boat is built differently from that one, and what could work better. Time in the boat first, not in the shop, is a good thing.
It costs more time and money to tear out and replace than original construction to the plans.
In modifications to a sailboat, the toughest to do are to change rigs, number of masts, location of mast steps and chainplates et al. Second wouod be changing weights and shapes of external keels.
What you are considering is light years to the other end of the spectrum.
You are really talking cabinet work, not boat building here, particularly if you leave the existing bulkheads in place, cutting away only down to the height of the new settees. You're trimming away about a foot and a half vertically of the bulkhead/ hull joint. The weight of the ballast will still be spread by the lower area of these bulkheads out to the waterline of the boat.
Strip built boats are sturdy, stiff structures as a rule.
Will you be pleased with the quality of your woodwaorking is a question? Do you have the skills or will you enjoy learning?
Nothing here could not be done with the boat in the water, bringing patterns to the shop for construction and installing on the boat. Why not get her sailing and then do this modification "on the fly" Nothing you're removing will prevent ongoing use of the boat, and that use might make the whole experience more enjoyable. I once kept a boat rebuild going on for over three years. At least I had another boat to enjoy, but keeping a boat out of service is a loss of sorts.
Could you work up a few concept sketches ( not necessarily scale engineering drawings) to share with us so we could review for any bugaboos or difficulties?

[George Roberts]

warrier ---

you wrote:

"the hull itself is strip planked W/R Cedar glued and screwed"

This begs the question: What is it screwed to?

The answer is usually: The planks are screwed to the frames/bulkheads.

If the planking is screwed to the bulkheads, you will have serious problems when you remove the bulkheads.

Perhaps you should have an engineer investigate your project.

[Buddy]

Can't let this topic alone it seems.
Let's first look at what interior "design" should be done, not at how the construction would be accomplished.
The size boat you have (25')can be problematic about how to divide up the cabin. A smaller sloop almost always works out to forward v berths, often with the head under, ahead of the mast supporting bulkhead and quarter beerths aft running under the cockpit to get length in an area where you don't have or need headroom. The galley and salon is worked out as best fits between where you have headroom 9 but just sitting headroom, in the cabin.
A bigger sloop, say 30 feet, usually has the same v berths, plus an additional bulkhead enclosing the head on one side and a hanging locker on the other forward of that main bulkhead. Then the salon settees and galley umder the full standing headroom cabin, with one quarterberth aft. Essentially a three section boat.
With a boat of your size, do you scale up the two section boat, or scale down the three section boat. Lots of 25 footers are offered both ways. I will say this, doing away with the quarterberths running halfway under the cockpit should be done advisably.
That storage volume is hard to get to without them. Those quarterberths are used on most boats more as a handy storage garage for loose gea, food supplies,and crew"luggage" than as a guest bedroom. But you can still clear it out for a guest.
Say in your boat you burn up 6 1/2 feet aft of the main bulkhead for two berths. That bulhead is what, nine feet from the bow. That's 15 1/2 feet on a 25 foot boat, 9 1/2' to go. The cockpit is already built and uses up, say 7 feet minimum. Thats 30" left under the house for a galley on one side, a nav station( or enclosed head) on the other. It will be a small galley, but functional. Maybe you can locate the icebox and food storage under the cockpit on that same side. Maybe that nav station seat could be the "head" end of one quarterberth, but it will be a bit tight for comfort sitting, a bit claustrophobic for sleeping.
And do you have headroom enough to stand in the galley or is it still a"sitter"? Most often on this size boat, the galley is aft to the companionway for the very reason that you can stand if the hatch is slid open.

In all, this would to me be a bit undersized in use, but look great on paper. I'd personally prefer the small boat layout enlarged route, offering more flexibility and elbow room. But I can appreciate the argument for dedicated cabinets, table tops, and lockers and fiddly bits for everything in its place for the other kind of guy.
And the layout that would provide the most comfort for the most crew spending nights at the dock or at anchor on a level waterline is not going to be the one to best keep a smaller crew at sea for days and nights on end rising and falling to swells at an angle of heel.
It comes down to what do YOU need for HOW you are going to use YOUR boat. That's why you are customizing in the first place.

[Buddy]

George, the strip planked boats I am familiar with have each strip screwed(or nailed) every few inches straight through the adjacent strip and halfway into the strip next to the adjacent one. Most often these strips are glued as well, making the fasteners redundant. Built over mostly temporary molds with a few built in bulkheads, or only temporary molds sometimes. This is the construction I believe the surveyor is describing.
But yes, if any bulkheads were built in, there would be screws through the strips to anchor the bulkheads, but not to hold the hull shell itself together
And true, the "free standing" hull strength is not the entire engineering of the boat. The integrity of the deck, shear connection, that main bulhead, maststep, chainplates, and floors for the keel load must also considered and maintained
Does this proposed interior change "cut into" that integrity in your opinion, particularly if no existing bulkhead is removed below the waterline or under a mast or chainplate?

[On Vacation]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"George, the strip planked boats I am familiar with have each strip screwed(or nailed) every few inches straight through the adjacent strip and halfway into the strip next to the adjacent one. Most often these strips are glued as well, making the fasteners redundant. Built over mostly temporary molds with a few built in bulkheads, or only temporary molds sometimes. This is the construction I believe the surveyor is describing"

Too many "Depends there"

Type of existing glue,
type of existing fasteners,
type and amount of glass,
amateur doing the rebuild, Sorry,
questions and suggestions by the professional surveyor, from the sale surveyor,
distance of your existing bulkheads,

Have a good day and a long thought process, more than a few posts and opinions from the WBF.

INFORMATION AND PLANNING, REDUNDANT INFORMATION AND PLANNING BEFORE A SAW GOES INTO THIS HULL, IF THIS WAS MINE.

Yep hard to leave this one alone. ;) :(

[warrior]

Oyster, you wrote

"Have a good day and a long thought process, more than a few posts and opinions from the WBF.

INFORMATION AND PLANNING, REDUNDANT INFORMATION AND PLANNING BEFORE A SAW GOES INTO THIS HULL, IF THIS WAS MINE"

- I certainly do have a lot of the above to think through before a saw goes anywhere. Oyster, Buddy, and JWaldin et all - really enjoying yur replies.

Seems I have also (unintentionally) created a bit of debate regarding dreamers, experience or lack of and some interesting info on striplnak as a construction method.

A Lot of information for me to assimilate, but you have to start somewhere. I am printing the replies out and keeping a file to refer to.

An interesting fact as far as the dreamer aspect that might infiltrate this board, I can count myself extremely fortunate. My boat has nevr been in the water, never been launched.
My surveyor told me that at the stage my boat is at the moment it would have cost me $100,000 plus to get the boat built by a professional to this stage. I bought the boat for just over $20,000 (this is NZ Dollars I am talking). So you can see why I would be extremely reluctant to part with her because of my lack of enthusiam for the interior set up. Maybe it áint that big a deal and as Oyster says, maybe sail her for a while and then think about any changes.
She was built by a gentleman with 40 plus years of boatbuilding experience, he also did a lot of boatbuilding for the NZ Navy also (I had this verified). Unfortunately he is in rather a bad way healthwise, real bad way, and the last thing I want to do is bother him with my musings on boat interiors.
Hence my posting on this board - what better place to ask?
Thanks again fellas.

[warrior]

Oyster
I did respond to your private-email immediately. I have just sent you another with my original reply attached.
I've just gotta get this digital camera situation sorted and I will post pics of my boat.
Cheers and thanks.

[Buddy]

Let's gather together at this bar again soon when you have the pictures and some drawings to spread out. A lot of folks here are really interested in this turning out well for you. To be that young with a boat that special is something I'll dream about. Woodsman, spare that saw a tad longer. Buddy

[On Vacation]

Originally posted by warrior:
Oyster
I did respond to your private-email immediately. I have just sent you another with my original reply attached.
I've just gotta get this digital camera situation sorted and I will post pics of my boat.
Cheers and thanks.Thanks, I don't have the best puter and links to the outside world. Like Buddy says, keep us updated. But it scares me when I read distruction central from the getgo, as we call it here. And also, as we experience a lot of different lingos and lanquage differences,especially from down your way, ;) and just across the little channel from you, in Aussieland, we can never be too sure about things with just one or two posts. smile.gif

[Meerkat]

Warrior; For what it's worth, here's an interior layout I think highly of. It's for a 24' LOD x 8' beam boat so it might work for you:
http://www.boatdesigns.com/store/Html/Products/images/allegraplan1.jpg

Some other thoughts:

* When you tear out those partial bulkheads, you should not (should not have to!) cut them right down to the hull. If, for example, you measured in 15-20cm from the bond and cut along that line, they will still offer considerable support/stiffening and what remains will will probably hide behind seatbacks or new galley flats (tables) or lockers (cabinets) or can be used as the vertical support for a bookshelf or the like outboard (out towards the hull) of a seat. The new "furniture" (as it's called in a boat, even if built in) that you install should be bonded to the hull and those will add their own stiffening.

Boat Joinery and Cabinet Making Simplified (http://www.boatdesigns.com/cgi-bin/store/web_store.cgi?page=bkboatjoineryfred.html.html&&cart_id=9495171_21307) by Fred P. Bingham is a great introduction to the subject of building boat furniture, hatches and etc. The book shows the differing construction methods and joints needed for wood that lives in fairly widely varying humidity conditions (things that work in "shore" furniture (tables chairs, etc.) don't work in marine construction). As it happens, he designed the layout pictured above.

[ 12-18-2003, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[warrior]

Thanks Meerkat, excellent. I'll be looking into that books also. Didn't a guy Bingham design that little cruiser "Flicka"?
I am thinking now of blowing off the digital camera thing, and getting out my pocket camera this weekend and then getting the pics scanned at a Internet Cafe onto this site. Would be quicker than waiting until after XMAS.

[George Roberts]

Buddy ---

Here we would use nails to fasten the strips together while the glue sets.

I am too lazy to look up who posted the $65k(US) cost/$6.5k(US) price.

A lot of that cost is in the furniture so the value is really the cost of the hull less the cost of removing the furniture. (That is water under the bridge by now.) In the US you would have made a good deal.

Since this is such a good deal, even paying $1000 for a structural analysis would be within reason. (I expect you would have a good hunk of change left from $1000.)

Like others have said: Putting your faith in us blind guys might not be the best way to protect your boat.

[Meerkat]

Originally posted by warrior:
Thanks Meerkat, excellent. I'll be looking into that books also. Didn't a guy Bingham design that little cruiser "Flicka"?
Flicka was done by Fred's son Bruce Bingham. The layout above is for Fred's Allegra.

[Quickie]

Interesting post.
Hire a professional boatbuilder to a survey of the interior; and especially the bulkheads and how they are bonded. Make sure there are no "Hard Spots".
He will let you know in about 5 minutes if it is practicable to change your interior so it won't cost you much for his time!
If it is practicable to do as you are wanting and if you can stand the mess then maybe you can make the changes yourself and save a heap of labour charges, but get him to survey as you go.