Woodworking for a novice...

[reeljob]

I will soon start work on a console for my to be 20' Simmons skiff. I will biild it out of 1/2' ply. My concern is how to radius or make the corners smooth and aesthetically appealing. I think i've figured out a good way to put the thig together, i'm just not sure about how to make it look smooth and fiberglass like (read rounded edges) A router with a radius bit? How would I set that up? (don't own a router, but getting one would ot be difficult) Any other way to do this? The pic is a rough drawing of what I want this thing to look like. I'm also going to make a mock up of it to get the dimensions right out of 1/2 blue foam insulation sheets. Any advice?

Thanks,
Cameron

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i254/reeljob/console.jpg

[Donn]

Use quarter-round solid wood molding to join your edges. That'll not only round the corners, but will protect the open edges of the ply.

[Wild Dingo]

Or use a rasp to take the edges off plane sand and done... but Donns would be quicker

[Dave R]

Maybe like this.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/weekender410/radius.jpg

[Wild Dingo]

And thats another way :cool:

Gotta love this place how the answers come so quick to a simple question... aint it grand? ;)

[reeljob]

Dave- I like that corner. How would I go about making that? Looks complicated.
Donn- not sure what exactly you are talking about- the stuff in racks in Lowes?

Thanks,
Cameron

[Donn]

Like the stuff in the racks in Lowes, but I'd probably go to a good molding supplier and get something more suited to marine use, like White Oak. Build the case with an open corner, backed on the inside with a 1x1 piece. Fill the gap with the Oak quarter-round.

[Dave R]

It wouldn't be very difficult to make with a router in a table or a tablesaw. As I've drawn it, you'd start with some stock 1-1/2" square. I'd cut a rabbet (the notch) in the edges and probably take off the inside corner with a handplane although that could be done with the router, too.

The radius on the exterior corner would wait until after assembly and be done with a bearing-guided roundover bit in a hand held router although that could be done by hand as well.

[Donn]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/donnwest/quarter-round.jpg

[reeljob]

You get your questions answered fast on here. If I can find a suitable material molding, that might work. I'll experiment with the other and see how the rabbeted joint works out for me. I see how the more complex joint would work for vertical corners, but what about something on an angle (seatback, base for helm and throttle)?

[Dave R]

Donn's way would give you essentially the same thing with stuff you could buy off the shelf or have made by a millwork shop without complex setup (probably lower cost).

As to places where you don't have a 90° corner, you could use the same sort of backer cut to fit and use thickened epoxy on the outside. Shape the epoxy to the radius and sand it out smooth.

[Chadd Hamilton]

Dave, your drawings rock!!

[Dave R]

Thanks Chadd. ;)

[ken.bryant]

Dave's is definitely the most elegant solution. The SIMPLEST solution, IMHO, is freehand with a blockplane. No jigs to set up; just take multiple passes until all the little flats become one round.

[Donn]

I like my approach for two reasons. One, as Dave points out, it can be built with off-the-shelf materials, without a need for fancy tools. Two, the quarter-round acts as a sacrificial piece, in a spot that attracts dings and wear. It's easily replaced.

[RodB]

Just using butt joints with ply is pretty simple...use an extra large graph pad and draw up your console design to scale. Get the dimensions of your fuel tank etc too. I think it makes most sense to glass your cutout panels before beginning assembly.

Initially, I glassed all the dimensional panels for the console before assembly. Next, I used those right angle square devices (in any woodworking store or catalog) that are used to clamp wood together "square" to align my panels for my console and just edge glued with epoxy for the first bond. I used small diameter sheetrock screws to hold things tight untill the epoxy cured. The 1/2" thick panel adhered strongly to the other panel laid along its edge.Then I ran a small fillet of epoxy on the inside of the joints. Note: always do a dry fit with screws before any bonding so that once things are wet and sticky with epoxy the partially screwed in screws act as guide pins to line up things perfectly...then just tighten the screws with a cordless on low clutch.

Lastly, [RADIUSED CORNER PART] I used a 1/2" or 5/8" (I forget) roundover bit on a router and then a Makita disc sander (80 grit) to radius the corners so that they looked symmetrical and uniform. I did the final shaping with two sanding boards, one about 18" long with 60 grit sandpaper and one about 12" long with 80 grit sandpaper. Note, remember all surfaces were glassed except for the radiused corners at this point. . .If you don't have a router then just use a disc sander (like a Makita auto buffer) with an 8" 3M sanding pad. I did some of the radiused corners with just a low angle block plane and then the sanding boards. A 60 grit sanding board can achieve a lot of material removal.

Lastly, I taped all these radiused corners with two layers of fiberglass cloth (2" and 3") and applied enough epoxy coats to bury the fabric. I then sanded the corners and filled and fared with epoxy mixed with equal parts of silica and talc. The corners all came out radiused and uniform...and most folks think my boat is fiberglass.
Final finishing was a high build fast drying primer and then good old alkyd enamel paint.

This all goes very quickly once you fabricate and glass all the component panels and do a dry trial fit together before bonding. I always let the higher panel overlap the panel under it for better engineering to protect the endgrain of the lower panel. Everything ends up being encapsulated anyway so it probably doesn't matter.

This ought to give you some ideas.

RB

This looks kinda like what you want... yours is just smaller...
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid148/p24f20acf56174abcece1b5a8da6a3453/f60fc8f2.jpg

Note the butt joint which was plenty strong and the panels were assembled with squares...
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid168/p4d2f69593a52c75e60a268a62981e4f3/f428622d.jpg

Fuel tank is an Inca 40 gallon model.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid168/pe35a8140c5dac8087e9d640ae69734c5/f428623c.jpg

Note both forward and seat panel are both removable in case fuel tank needs to be removed later on. I glued hardwood strips on all exposed edges (walnut) to protect the endgrain of the ply.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid168/pfb4cd324e5e3b93a05b0cefd79f4cda8/f4286229.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p41f0c4b7f797a9df61b37ac00d0a813e/ee7c3a96.jpg.orig.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p2dd9ef058ec7303872f7771d862093a8/ee7c39ee.jpg

[merlinron]

don's idea would probably the easiest for a novice to tackel. cut the side panels out and attatch the 1x1's all the way around them (opposite faces, of course), flush with the outside edges, mitered in the corners. the fronts, tops and backs are then attatched to the 1x1's flush with the inside of the side panels. a qurter round would then be set in the cannel all the awy around, sanding the edges out.
one could easily make removeable panels where needed this way by using t-nuts in the 1x1's and machine screws through the panel. make the removeable panel a bit small and return the glass to the underside a couple inches to seal up the edges. you can set the 1x1" a bit lower from the edge where removeable panels will be to compesate for the build-up of epoxy/glass and gasket, so the top surface will end up closer to flush with the edge of the quarter round.
with ring of "wiper style" weather strip, you can make the compartment reasonbly water tight(as far as spray is concerned), as well. the "wiper style" weather strip works better because it doesn't have a tendency to stick itself to the moveable surface like most of the foam weathestriping does eventually.i just hate when that happens.
nice looking, brass/bronze or stainless finish-washers for flat-head screws can be made by setting the champfer angles of the screw head into the washer with a punch ground to the angles and "stamping" the washer over a conunter sunk pocket in a peice of hardwood.just lay the washer over/in the pocket and give it thump. with a suitible size spade or forstner bit, counterbore a spot in the panel deep enough for the washer to sit flush with the surface after glassing. (be sure to pilot the location so the assembly will line up.) once glassed, and partially cured, set the washers in the pockets with thickened googe, lay the panel down on a flat surface with wax paper under it, wax up some drywall screws and set the washers with a bit of pressure to pull them down in the counter bore. this will also flaten out the glass job on the back side of the panel. if they stick up just a bit sanding down will give them a nice flush appearance. hit them with a counter sink bit lightly, to just clean the epoxy out of the countersunk washer, after it's all cured.your screws will then have a good solid spot to snug up on and they won't continually sink into the panel all the time.
you can get nice, pre-made( machined) flush-set finish washers from cabinet suppliers, but they're hard to find and all i've ever seen is electro-galvanised. i've used them on jobs, sent along with the cabinets, but never found out where they come from.i would think they'd rust in a hurry on a boat... sometimes you just gotta "roll your own"....

[reeljob]

Thanks for the help. Rod- I like just using an epoxy fillet instead of a 1x1 bracing- seems like it would eliminate lots of weight. I might use a combination of epoxy fillet and wood bracing. I think epoxy is a lot stronger than I often think. With your console, do you mount the fuel tank vent overboard or just outside the console? I'm wary of routing the vent to empty within the boat. I like the hatch on the front of your console, I plan to have a very large removable panel in the front for easy wiring and control access.

[RodB]

If you invest in the aluminum square devices that I mentioned above (about $25/four) ... that are specifically for clamping stock togther square...then you can just glue the panels together with a simple butt joint. You can clamp these on the end of a 2X4 of appropriate length and get both side panels absolutely square. Once the epoxy is cured, you can add small fillets on the inside and tape the outside radiused corners...and you have a very strong and simple joint with no extra wood cleats for additional weight. You can probably build your console out of 3/8" ply and it will be plenty strong...just add extra thickness where the steering wheel mounts for plentyof strength there.

. I have a center bulkhead in my console separating the batteries from the fuel tank and that made for quite a bit of stiffness and rigidity. The main thing you need to do this this simple technique is to be able to clamp (via "C" clamps and aluminum squares) the panels together square and do an initial bond. I also built a shelf across the rear compartment of the console to "stack" my batteries. The crank battery sits on the shelf, the trolling motor battery mounts on the bottom. It is quite easy to fabricate this shelf strong enough to hold a battery and you save space stacking the batteries.

Notice the black gas fill on the front ledge of my console (available from West M and Boaters World. That fuel fill also has a built in vent that just goes right back to the fill tube. I used this because it removed the necessity of having a vent line running to the topside. Also, this allows for very easy checking of fuel level via use of a calibrated dip stick, which will always work...ALWAYS... while fuel guages (which I have one) fail sooner or later.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p8b6387299e14bac775def0b7b0e56464/ee5dc2b5.jpg

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=4484 These are what I use...
http://www.woodpeck.com/groupclampingsquare.html

RB

[pipefitter]

Also,the console is the best place to learn to do roundovers,being you cant use the wood ¼ rounds everywhere in a boat. After you get them built and then to what you think is finish sanded,use a paint roller with the primer on it and white the radiuses. The contrast will show waves or inconsistencies. It will also give you a sanding guide. It is sometimes hard to see these things on clear coated plywood.