1st progress report on "Tar Devil"

[Tar Devil]

Ok, it's just a simple tack, tape, and googe boat... but at least I'm a building!

First attempt at scarfing - the side panels. I cleaned 'em up a bit more and the joints turned out fine. The bilge panels were easier and looked much better...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p5ee51f9b27f6dfbc822a6c5d1c26a4a4/ee69fabe.jpg

Jumping way ahead (cause all the in-between is pretty boring) all the "stuff" is cut out. I got tired of wrestling with my warping mid and aft station molds, so I rebuilt them of 1 X 6 pine lumber. The cross members will be replaced with longer ones tomorrow at the right height so the side panels will rest on them as they are fastened to the molds (I was running out of time and light, so the bottom didn't get dragged out of the garage. But, heck, it's just a boat bottom!).

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p6fce03dacc1da7c1259e4deaf81ea85e/ee69f87a.jpg

One more shot of the same old stuff. Some notes... instead of laminating two 1/2 layers of ply for the stem, I sided the 1/2 ply with two layers of 1/4 ply which had a much better finish than the 1/2. The outside of the transom (which hasn't been cut down, pending a motor decision) also got a layer of 1/4 ply for a better finish.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p7d3126eeeea4d9cb8b5257a81e3b9e24/ee69f8c1.jpg

I still need to notch the molds for the seams and mark a centerline on the bottom and transom. Then, all the pieces will hopefully fall in place to make something resembling a hull.

Later,

Phil

[Tom Lathrop]

OK Phil, you can't get an A for the scarfs but you do get a star for doing them instead of one of the other cop outs. With a good glue up, they will be fine. What is the boat? Good luck with it. Bring it down to O'rental any time and dunk it off my dock.

[mcdenny]

Those look like panels for a Bolger Diablo, right?

I built one for/with my son-in-law last winter stretched out to 16'. Pretty tough to get those floppy thin panels fair with so little internal support. We had to do a good bit of 'adjusting' before the seams got taped.

Boat performs very well with a 25hp OB, much better than the simple shape and dead flat bottom would lead you to expect.

[JimD]

Thanks for posting, Phil. Sure, its the same old stuff but I rarely get tired of seeing people's progress. And getting the panels for a stitch and glue boat all cut and faired and layed out symetrically on the ground to have a look at is one of life's little pleasures. Keep the updates coming, eh?

[Tar Devil]

Wish I had taken photos of the bilge panels, Tom, 'cause they looked world's better than the side panels. Once glued, however, they turned out OK. Be a pleasure to float my boat down your way. Wanna find that Oyster guy, too!

Yes, mcdenny, it's a Diablo. Got my colors picked out, too! Gonna look like this 1/6 scale model I did...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid193/p61f0467e81a609456862177f6adb38ff/f18fc1b3.jpg

Yep, Jim... It was nice to see all those shapes lying on my lawn!


Later,

Phil

[Tar Devil]

Starting to look familiar...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p5397609af332853ca49955648f5057a5/ee65a2b2.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p2cdadd9f78b48aa992a58a12275cb196/ee65a208.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p8fec0eb109fec36663719a47aac0982a/ee6541a3.jpg


Nobody can accuse MY workspace of being too clean!!

Later,

Phil

[JimD]

Wasting no time I see. And btw, you call that a messy workspace? When my garage looks as neat as yours its time to eat dinner off the floor.

[Memphis Mike]

Looks real nice, Phil.:)

A tip:

Cut your limber holes before you install the bilge panels.

[Tar Devil]

A tip:

Cut your limber holes before you install the bilge panels.

Just did it. Thanks!

Later,

Phil

[katiedobe]

Good Job. I love to see stich and glue power skiffs go together. You will do great. Don't rush anything. Once that epoxy gets on there it is a b**tch to get off or re-adjust.

[Tom Lathrop]

Yeah, Phil,

I hope you don't overpower the Diablo cause it pretty skittish with even a 25. We will have go to the bottom to find Oyster. (he is gonna love that) I was discussing with Oyster yesterday how we were planning on getting to see the Tall Ship extravaganza next week. We both plan to get there and move around by boat since the land will be so restricted and crowded. The CG is only going to enforce a 100' approach limit as we understand it. That will not be a problem.

[Tar Devil]

I hope you don't overpower the Diablo...

There is absolutely no risk in that happening... no risk whatsoever! :) In fact, I'm sure I'll be the "moped" of whatever body of water I venture on!

Later,

Phil

[Thomas Williamson]

Looking good. Keep the pictures coming. I have come very close to starting a Diablo a few times and just nevre quite followed through.

[Memphis Mike]

"I hope you don't overpower the Diablo cause it pretty skittish with even a 25."

I really don't know what you mean by that. I've got a 25 on mine and it's one solid boat at top speed, especially with a passenger up front.

But then I built mine entirely out of yellow pine and gave her two coats of glass which makes it 50% heavier than most.

I don't know if you know that or not but Payson recommends two coats of glass for the bottom only, Phil. I called him to verify this.

I figured if I was going to do two coats on the bottom I might as well do the entire boat and did and I'm not sorry. It gives it the extra strength and rigidity it needs for higher speeds.

[Tar Devil]

I don't know if you know that or not but Payson recommends two coats of glass for the bottom only, Phil. I called him to verify this.

Hadn't heard this before, but since I plan to beach the boat on several little islands at the coast, and extra layer of glass would be welcome. Thanks for the heads up!

Later,

Phil

[Bruce Taylor]

Good to see it happening at last!

Definitely double up the glass on the bottom, as Mike says (and the transom). The stronger you build the bottom, the better.

In fact, if I had it to do over, I'd add some stout stringers to the bottom panel (and set some floorboards into them). That 1/2" bottom flexes quite a bit in rough water and could use the extra stiffness. And one of these days I'll add some floorboards, to keep my feet dry (my Diablo sits at the dock, and even with the bilge pump on "auto" there's almost always a bit of water sloshing around). It's a lot easier to make these little improvements before you've painted the hull.

Don't skimp on the transom knee...make it strong. Also, do a good job tying the transom to the cockpit seating (heavy tape and generous fillets). I grounded out a few years ago, and cracked the top of the knee & the seat fillets.

You know that little square piece that sits between the cockpit seats? I left it out and haven't missed it a bit.

25 hp is ideal for this boat. I had a 15hp on it, for a while and it wasn't enough.

[Tar Devil]

I'm already planning on floors, stringers and a sole, Bruce, for several reason. Mike had told me a couple years ago about the flex.

Later,

Phil

[Bruce Taylor]

What are you planning to use for flotation?

This spring I replaced the flotation in mine, and added inspection ports. I'd used construction-grade polystyrene, originally, and it had degraded badly (gas in the bilge, a dead battery and three weeks of heavy rain...). It wasn't drying out properly, either.

For the replacement flotation, I bought a bunch of EVAfoam fun noodles (a dollar store item). I like this solution, but if I had it to do over, I'd make fully enclosed flotation tanks with sealed drain plugs and very large inspection ports (big enough that the space can be used for storage).

I used latex house paint on the spray rails, seats and gunwales. It holds up beautifully.

[Tar Devil]

I've got some foam blocks I removed from my 12' boat before I sank it.

I'm planning to leave the fwd blkhd at full height, deck it and make a storage area in the lower area. The top area I'll seal off and fill with foam.

It's looking like I'll have to use the short shaft Sears outboard I already have, so I'll build a splashwell to keep various lakes and oceans from boarding aft. In the upper sections of the rear deck I'll install foam. Bottom part will house my gas tank and battery.

At least, that's the plan.

For now, though, I've gotta figure out how to make the bilge panels fit. They're a mess! :rolleyes: Dunno why... didn't spend much time with them tonight, just dry-fitted them for fun... turned out to be not much fun.

I'll look at it more Saturday.

Later,

Phil

[Memphis Mike]

They don't have to fit perfectly, Phil. If you have some gaps, apply masking tape to the inside of the seam and fill the gap with some goo. Sand down fair. This boat was designed to be built that way.

The inner and outer fiberglass tape and cloth will hold the whole thing together.

[Tar Devil]

Gaps aren't the problem. The panel is too big (and I was extremely meticulous about cutting everything). Not sure where to trim without screwing up the alignment. I have several questions... call you tonight?

Later,

Phil

[Memphis Mike]

Yeah, call me around 7 pm our time. I'll be out of pocket from 7:30 till 9:00 but you're welcome to call after 9:00 if you like.:)

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

It's great to see your progress Phil.
Keep those photo's coming.

[GROOVY]

Tar Devil
"For the three of you that are interested..."

.....4 looking good

[Memphis Mike]

Phil, how did it go with the bilge panels?

[pipefitter]

Duplicate the model you built. How did you get those to line up?The molds should get them close enough? Looks good from here. Maybe they are to overlap and be faired flush with the sides after the fact? Good to see it going together. I am betting you get it figured out.

[Tar Devil]

Haven't worked on it much in the last several days. Spent last Saturday hunting for a dog for my daughter. Sunday I chilled.

I piddled with it enough to figure out that some trimming is necessary on both sides of the bilge panels if they are to fit properly at the stem. My concern now is making sure I maintain symmetry.

It'll be OK.

Later,

Phil

[Spokaloo]

Phil, I want to see more.

E

[pipefitter]

I made a compas divider to check symmetry on the Simmons. In this way I was able to keep it fair. I was off 1/32nd at frame #4 which was easy to sand out. The rest were dead on. 1/32nd, I laughed since I would have accepted an 1/8th. Made a centerline down the length of the keel and that was my control line for the chines and bottom planks.

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/ProductImages/markingmeasuring/310317.jpg

I know this is no mystery tool but it sure made short work of checking things.

[jlapratt]

Looking good Phil. Is it my tired eyes or is there a bit of unfairness near the transom? Probably just the plywood flexing between molds without the bilge panels fitted; maybe the bilge panels aren't too big afterall?

I've been toying with the idea of building "stitch-n-goo" but don't really want to go through the hassle of mixing and sanding 20 gallons of epoxy. :eek: Keep up with the postings so I (we) can follow your progress.

[Tar Devil]

Is it my tired eyes or is there a bit of unfairness near the transom? Probably just the plywood flexing between molds without the bilge panels fitted?

Hell yes, it's flexing! :mad: I'm getting pretty close to carrying the whole mess out back and burning it.

Besides the fact the bilge panels don't fit exactly right (Memphis Mike said he had the same problem... we're using the same patterns), the bilge panels have developed more waves than the North Atlantic in December.

I kinda regrouped and instead of "loosely tacking" things together I disassembled, remeasured, refitted, glued/screwed/welded everything together I knew was right... such as transom, side panels, stem, bottom. Then I'll retackle the bilge panels, assuming that anything else I do to them will not get everything else askew.

The ill-fitting bilge panels wouldn't bother me as much if I knew the whole thing wouldn't look like an undulating countryside when I'm done. I reckon if I were using better materials I'd not be as frustrated... but I either use the cheaper stuff or I keep building models.

Later,

Phil

Edited to add: Jeff, my next boat won't be S&G... I want frames... lots of frames. Stuff that says, "Everything is hunky dory! Screw that damned plywood down, right here! We'll hold it straight!"

[Tar Devil]

Forgot to mention... I got nearly all the "flex" out of the side panels by clamping 8' long 1X4's along the sheer between the mid mold and transom. I also removed the fwd mold and beveled the edges before reinstalling. It added a lot of stability in the fwd section. I now know I've got a good, fair boat with the bottom, side panels, transom and stem all secured. I'm hoping it will ease some of my frustration with the bilge monsters.

Later,

Phil

[geeman]

Strong beats pretty any day,but you'll get it like you want it,hang in there.Its still more boat then I've been able to build yet.I envey your success so far.

[Bruce Taylor]

On mine, I found it helpful to add a short stringer just below the sheer, between the cockpit bulkhead and the middle seat/thwart. I found the upper panel kept trying to bend in, giving the boat a "fish-tailed" look. I'd seen that "fishy" look on several Diablos I'd seen online, and didn't care for it. If you look closely at this pic you can see the stiffener I added:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid29/p87c07c499ad1b966965d3bc214e5a5d3/fd589a2a.jpg

[jlapratt]

LOL, you aren't the first one I've heard complaining about the ability to "easily adjust the panels" on a S&G hull to "achieve fairness." Something about the belt and suspenders gluing and screwing to frames makes me a little more comfortable too.

You'll do fine. Patience Phil, patience.

Jeff

[Tar Devil]

Bruce, the sheer of my Diablo's gonna look like Jeff's boat when I'm done ('cept it'll be blue instead of bright). Hope that eliminates the "fishtailed" look. If not... I'll stringer the thing to death.

Later,

Phil

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Hey Phil how did I miss this thread you really are invisible ;)

Let me say looking good though.

[Tar Devil]

Hey Phil how did I miss this thread you really are invisible ;)

The title is all mine... "The Original Invisible Man!":D

[pipefitter]

Could also put temporary spreaders in there and then cut the bulkhead,thwart or whatever to that size. I ran across a similar problem when building the Simmons.The spreader dimension didn't match the frame dimension so I made it fair and sized the last 2 frames accordingly. Could have been my error to start with but it made it go away regardless.

[katiedobe]

I did not have that much trouble getting things to come together with MY QE 16. I did like the idea of being able to adjust where I needed. I liked the ease of the flat form construction then using "ribs" to form the bottom and bow curve. Worked fairly easy. Although there were times that I had to deviate from the dimensions written on the plans because my "eye" said those dimensions were not "fair". Happy I did.http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/pa0e7e7f74ea65bec1003614aa00cccda/ee8d9d4c.jpg

[mcdenny]

I had the fish tail effect too. We got rid of it by pushing it out fair with stretchers when gluing on the innner and outer sheer clamps. (inwhale and guard?) (gunwhale moldings?).

I had exactly the same thoughts about building a boat with no framework to get fair before applying planking. CLC kayak kits have you glue the sheer clamp to the side plywood before assembly. Maybe that would have worked for these boats too.

As someone noted on a different thread, 'you aren't building the mirror for the Hubble telescope'. It's nice to have everything measuring perfect but a little error isn't the end of the world. Another popular quote is 'if it looks right, it is right'.

[Tar Devil]

CLC kayak kits have you glue the sheer clamp to the side plywood before assembly. Maybe that would have worked for these boats too.

I thought about that a number of times. Might be a course of action for me.


As someone noted on a different thread, 'you aren't building the mirror for the Hubble telescope'. It's nice to have everything measuring perfect but a little error isn't the end of the world. Another popular quote is 'if it looks right, it is right'.

You sorta set the bar pretty high with that nice piece of sculpure you posted on the other Diablo thread.

I'd be content with less than perfect, but with the warping in my panels I don't think anyone would accept the results I'm getting.

Today I finally gave up trying to straighten out those panels and they went in the trash. I dug out a couple more sheets of ply and they had major warpage as well (they've been on my garage floor for nearly a year). This week I'll buy new ply... might try Roseburg's Superply.

Later,

Phil

[Ian Marchuk]

Sorry to hear that you turfed so much effort . Thanks for your efforts in keeping us informed on your agonies and triumphs.
When you see Oyster give him my fond Best Wishes , sure would like to see him back at the WBF . He has a lot to offer .....

[Tar Devil]

sure would like to see him back at the WBF

As would I!

Later,

Phil