A few other thoughts about sensuality and sexuality

[ishmael]

Here, so as not to muck with Mike's thread anymore. Sorry Mike.

It seems to me some healthy boundaries have been tossed out, or mayby misplaced, along with some of the unhealthy repressions we've shed over the last century.

Take my speaking about sensuality with my animals, for example. Immediately, like a bunch of twelve year olds in the locker room, it's assumed I'm talking about sex. Gawd, what an awful thought! Yet that's where our modern mind seems to turn, with Freudian clockwork.

Having an intimate physical relationship with another creature, human or otherwise, doesn't ALWAYS involve orgasms! Catawumpous has just recently begun to trust me touching her back toes. They're marveously wonky feet she has, and she's come to like my massaging her toes, and not see it as an attack. She trusts me. Who in their right mind wouldn't like having a built in masseuse? Sexual thoughts are far from either of our minds. We just like being intimate and close. Two fellow animals, giving and getting simple animal comfort.

Looking at American Civil War photos of groups of soldiers, the young men are often physical with each other: holding hands, an arm around a shoulder, a touch on a knee etc. Nothing to do with "Brokeback Mountain", they were just touching other people they loved.

This understanding has been lost with the sexualizing of everything, or so it seems to me. The repressions that came before were problematic too, but some of the social conventions, the boundaries that were just understood and made it possible to be sensual without being sexual were good, and by losing them I think we've made our physical world a little colder, our bodies a bit more lonely.

What do you think?

[Don Olney]

A few more Deep Thoughts about Sensuality and Sexuality (http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=50847&highlight=cow)

[ishmael]

Like a said, a bunch of giggling schoolboys. And why do schoolboys giggle? Because they are embarassed and afraid.

We like to think of ourselves as somehow sophisticated, enlightened about sex. From what I see things have gotten worse in many ways, over the last 100 years, with all our vaunted freedom and revolutions.

So, giggle all you want. Make jest of it and me. I think my ideas are basically sound, and I'm willing to listen to those in actual disagreement.

[botebum]

Put a bell on your cat and you'll always be able to find it when you need it.:D

Doug

[Garrison]

I hear you Jack. But in this country sex sells and is taboo unless youre a man and woman who are married to one another and doing it in the missionary position with the lights out and your mouths closed. Just look at the tittilation that the series on one of the networks has caused ( luring males into thinking they will have sex with a girl under 18 and then springing the trap when they show up with the "hard lemonade".

People might view that program just as you did and pronounce it a sick world, but sweeping sex and sexuality into the back alleys , adult book stores, into industrialized areas, and behind closed doors does nothing to make it better. In my opinion it makes it worse.

[huisjen]

I just want to note that I didn't feel the need to start a thread like this.

Jack talks about making love to his cat (using a well known coloquial expression, and then claiming we made the statement sexual), and he's talked about getting a hard-on looking at his dog. He claims professional interest in the subject because he used to work with the sexualy disturbed: Do what you love. The money will follow.

Jack has a sick fascination with sexual abuse. He spoke in the other thread, not just about gambling and prostitution, but about housewives and blow jobs in parking lots. The details fascinate him. He talks over and over about how things were hunky-dorey growing up in Ohio, but how now the world is full of predators. He's fascinated with the idea of predators.

This isn't about sex. It's about danger and domination and fear.

I wonder what brought him into that world. Was he (is he) on the giving or recieving end?

Dan

[Garrison]

theres weeds to be pulled hippy farm

[huisjen]

Ahh, so there are...

[Meerkat]

Does Jack fit a certian profile? Reclusive hermit living in a trailer in the woods just down the road from Stephen King... :eek: :eek: :eek:

[George.]

Forget the man. Read what he says. It is thought-provoking...

[ishmael]

Dan,

Your error is in assuming my world. You don't know me from Adam, yet you presume to.

In my training in psychology, one of the axioms was that those who are most intent on a subject have some issue with it, but never to assume anything.

I give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't into bestiality. How about the same courtesy?

Sex? With a cat or a dog or a cow or a fish? Are you totally bonkers?

I said I wasn't going to do this, but you asked, in a way. I think you understand perfectly well what I'm talking about. You're a husbandman, and if anyone knows the sensuallity of animals a good husbandman does. Why you get it twisted into sex is not clear. Maybe your time in the Navy?

[geeman]

A 100 years ago and possibly less,it wasnt uncommon for men to share a bed,it wasnt sexual,though I am assuming a bit here.People were more concerned with a place to sleep.Also it wasnt uncommon for men to sleep close together in the "spoon" position to keep from freezing to death on the battlefield.Here again I'm "asuming nothing sexual there.I do agree that part of our problem as a society is we keep up with the "taboo" factor about sex.I remember when I was a teen,the more I was told "sex is a no no" the more I wanted to explore it.

[Popeye]

it's good with mustard on it

[Leon m]

I don't think any good will come from this.

[ishmael]

"I don't think any good will come from this."

Why not? It's high time we had a good dust-up about sex. We've been through the various revolutions and freedom movements, but I don't sense the sexes are any closer. If anything I think they are farther apart.

And we still can't talk about it without being crude or giggling.

Thanks, George. I think I'm asking a valid and vital question.

[Ross M]

...It seems to me some healthy boundaries have been tossed out...

Dang - popped another fuse in my irony meter :p

Ross

[Tom Montgomery]

Having an intimate physical relationship with another creature, human or otherwise, doesn't ALWAYS involve orgasms!

What do you think?
I knew that.

[Leon m]

and whats wrong with leaving sex in the bedroom...a private matter...I think privacy adds to the quality of sex.

[botebum]

Not only did I not know that, I never would have thought to speculate about it.:eek:

Doug

[Tom Montgomery]

Sex? With a cat or a dog or a cow or a fish? Are you totally bonkers?
:eek: I agree. Leave the fishies alone!

[jack grebe]

and whats wrong with leaving sex in the bedroom...a private matter...I think privacy adds to the quality of sex.
tell that to marketing. NO WAY are they gonna try to sell suntan lotion without a bikini

[huisjen]

I dunno. Maybe removing those last few square inches of cloth would require just a little more sun screen.


In my training in psychology, one of the axioms was that those who are most intent on a subject have some issue with it

Yep. And I didn't start this thread. But I am laughing at you a lot as I read it.

I'm not angry with you Jack. I don't like being angry at anyone, because of what it brings out in me, and if I get angry at you I'll just put you back on my ignore list. For now I just pitty you. Some people are happier being mentally disturbed, but I can tell you aren't one of them.

Dan

[LeeG]

Addressing intimate subjects on a misc. non-wooden boat topic forum could indicate a problem with exercising healthy boundaries with live people.

Try talking in the first person.

[LeeG]

I think we've made our physical world a little colder, our bodies a bit more lonely.

What do you think?

for example

[Meerkat]

I don't sense the sexes are any closer.Cat's not doing it for you? :D

I doubt your sex has been close to anyone else's sex since Clinton's first term! :D

[Stiletto]

Two fine fellows are sitting in a gentlemen's club.

" I say Gilberthorpe, did you hear what happened to Carruthers?"

" No Prendergast, What happened ?"

" Damned fool got caught mucking around with an elephant".

" Female elephant was it?"

" Oh yes, nothing wrong with Carruthers you know"

[huisjen]

Sex? With a cat or a dog or a cow or a fish? Are you totally bonkers?


Not just any fish.


The Mermaid Lyrics

(Trad)
When I was a lad in a fishin’ town
Me old man said to me:
"You can spend your life, your jolly life
Just sailin’ on the sea.
You can search the world for pretty girls
Til your eyes are weak and dim,
But don't go searchin’ for a mermaid, son
If you don't know how to swim"

(course)
'Cause her hair was green as seaweed
Her skin was blue and pale
Her face, it was a work of art, I loved that girl with all my heart
I only liked the upper part
I did not like the tail

I signed onto a sailing ship
My first very day at sea
I seen the mermaid in the waves,
There reaching out to me
"Come and live with me in the sea said she,
Down on the ocean floor
And I'll show you a million wondrous things,
you've never seen before.
So over I jumped and she pulled me down,
Down to her seaweed bed
And a pillow made out of a tortoise-shell
She placed beneath my head
She fed me shrimp and caviar
Upon a silver dish
From her head to her waist it was just my taste
But the rest of her was a fish

(course)

Then one day, she swam away
So I sang to the clams and the whales
"Oh, how I miss her seaweed hair
And the silver shine of her scales
But then her sister, she swam by
Set my heart awhirl
’Cause her upper part was an ugly fish
But her bottom part was a girl
Yes her hair was green as seaweed
Her skin was blue and pale, her legs they are a work of art
I love that girl with all my heart
And I don’t give a damn bout the upper part
’Cause that’s how I get my tail

[ishmael]

Sheba, dead two years now, had sweet fur. When she got old and sick in her mouth she smelled really bad. Just the last six months. Before that I loved to smell her fur and nibble her toes and ears. I nibbled her toes and ears until she died.

That you don't understand it is your problem. I try to enlighten you, but there is only so much one man can do.

[geeman]

Nibble her toes and ears????? really?

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Jesus Jack :rolleyes: when was the last time you got laid ???????

[huisjen]

I'm guessing 1982.

Tell us, Jack: Why don't you go back to Bangor Theological Seminary. You'll have more opportunity to discuss your dog toe fettish with those more deeply trained in philosophy than mear charlitans like us.

Dan

[Tom Montgomery]

Jack, I am just dumbstruck that you are surprised by the reaction you get when you share such info.

"Dog nibbles on man's toes" is not news. "Man nibbles on dog's toes" is... er... remarkable.

[botebum]

Jesus Ish! It's understandable that you get upset about all the abuse we(me included) heap on you, but you beg for it!:rolleyes:

Doug

[ishmael]

Yeah, nibbled her toes and ears. Why not? I nibbled much more on her ears than her toes. They were typical dog toes, and not very savory.

And Joe's reaction is so predictably afraid. When was the last time you GOT LAID, Joe? You've been married for how many years?

What interesting imaginations. I GOT LAID plenty in my day. So what? How do you relate to your wife?

It proves the question I'm asking.

[huisjen]

Open mouth
Insert foot
Wiggle toes
Chew
Swallow
Repeat.

[huisjen]

When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging :D

[geeman]

I find myself reading this entire thread again,,because I cant believe I read it right the 1st time,,,,,,,,

[huisjen]

He's really an astounding little thinker, isn't he?

What I was getting at earlier is that if I had kids, I wouldn't let him anywhere near them or them anywhere near him. I suspect that there was something unfortunate which happened when his parents failed to show a similar level of concern for their children.

Dan

[Tom Montgomery]

Yeah, nibbled her toes and ears. Why not? I nibbled much more on her ears than her toes. They were typical dog toes, and not very savory.
I don't normally think of a "typical" dog's toes in terms of cuisine. Curiouser and curiouser....

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

When was the last time you GOT LAID, Joe? You've been married for how many years?

What interesting imaginations. I GOT LAID plenty in my day. So what? How do you relate to your wife?

It proves the question I'm asking.

I got laid last night, lookin good for tonight ;)

Been married 10 years this Thursday. We relate damn well in and out of the sack.

You need to get laid Jack, and stop relating to your cat.

[botebum]

A delicacy in some Maine trailers:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d31/botesbabe/dogtoes.jpg

Doug

[ishmael]

It's hard to be in a body. Catawumpous is sitting next to me, wanting canned food. She's had her canned food today, yet sits, desires, looks at me like "What the hell is wrong with you, give me some more!"

What is wrong with you folks that you see this and automatically think about sex? Maybe I'm wrong, just am not that sexual? I wonder about that, but think I'm as sexual as the next person. I like sex with a willing adult human. I also like sensuallity with a willing adult cat. I understand the differerence. Why isn't it obvious?

[huisjen]

Well, Doug, I can tell the image is hosted by Tripod the three legged dog, but nothing else.

Dan

[Tom Montgomery]

I GOT LAID plenty in my day. So what?
I cannot imagine using the phrase "in my day" in ANY statement I would make about myself.

[huisjen]

It's hard to be in a body.
Yeah, I can think of times when I was hard and in another body.

[botebum]

didn't come up for you, Dan?

Doug

[geeman]

Stunned,,,,,,,,,,,, is the word I think,,,,,,,,

[huisjen]

The picture? No Doug.

Dan

[botebum]

It was there! Now it's gone! Aww hell!

Doug

[geeman]

I wasnt there,

[Tom Montgomery]

I see it. Hot buttered paws.

[huisjen]

I GOT LAID plenty in my day.

See: 1982

[ishmael]

What is so stunning about it, Geeman? If you really read what I've said, you'll see that I'm quite conventional. I love the animal-ness of my animal friends, but nothing weird.

A woman, a lover, would probably be good, but I can't just get laid anymore. I don't look at sex that way anymore. Maybe it's a fault, I'm not sure, but coupling with someone who isn't attached seems a youthful game, not what I want anymore.

What is so shocking about all that?

[botebum]

fixed- it's there now- barely worth the effort

Doug

[huisjen]

Doug, that's better.

Dan

[Bob Cleek]

Must be a sloooooow day! Don't take it personally, Ish. Hey, I've got a stud dog that the vet whacked off so often he gets a hard on before he's out of the car at the vet's office. I'm sure your cat appreciates the attention.

I'm with you on the human sex, too, Ish. Once these guys' hormones settle down, they'll be amazed at how much more time, energy, and wisdom they will acquire! "Sport f**king" is for kids. Real men have more important things to occupy themselves.

[huisjen]

Who was it who observed, "Celabacy is he strangest of all sexual perversions."

[Bob Cleek]

Who was it who observed, "Celabacy is he strangest of all sexual perversions."

Dunno... but it is also the most financially rewarding!

[huisjen]

I ran across this while trying to find a reference:


Dr. Kinsey, in his report on male sexual behaviour, thought it worth his time to show statistically that persons who practise continence are more likely to have histories of instability than those who do not.

Dan

[Tom Montgomery]

In all seriousness, Jack...

Those of us who are involved in living life in society -- pursuing careers, raising families, sailing boats, making love to our partners, interacting with our friends and associates, etc. -- often find your take on things to be odd. Peculiar in way that suggests you live an extraordinarily insulated life.

The solitary lifestyle may be just the thing for you, but it means the rest of us often find it hard, and sometimes impossible, to relate to you. What is sad is that it seems you yearn for us to relate to you. It is a problem.

[Nemo]

I once stayed with a friend and his wife for a couple days, and was surprised to watch each day as he returned from work and take a chair while his 50lb dog licked his face for a while. I thought it seemed kinda disgusting, thinking about the stuff on that tongue, but hey - that was his business!

Back to the sensual/sexual topic, what do you feel while petting a dog or cat? It's comforting, in some measure, to pet an animal, so that could be seen as a sensual connection.

I won't condemn non-sexual contact like allowing an animal to lick your skin, or in Ish's case returning the favor, but I can see the difference between sensual and sexual.

[Meerkat]

I GOT LAID plenty in my day.My point exactly: your day is over. ;)

[ishmael]

I'd like to have a lover again, think I will, hope so. It is, I think, a natural state. It sure is good! But that's not what I'm trying after here. The seperation of the sensual from the sexual is what I was trying to talk about, and how our lack of understanding of it has made our sensual nature more difficult.

Cat is just completely unafraid, as she lies here next to me. Completely! Yet set off a firecracker and she will be ready for a ride. Looking in her face, she has nothing to worry about. A fanstastic thing, a civilized thing, a not natural thing, we give them.

All the stuff you guys are focused on seems odd to me. But I'm odd, so don't take it too personally.

[Mrleft8]

This one even has me shaking my head..... Jack, you gotta get a hobby..... Or at least go out to the center of town with a "Kick me" sign pinned to the back of yer shirt.

[huisjen]

I guess I'd better just laugh my ass off to bed.

Dan

[ishmael]

I don't understand your attitude, Doug. I think I'm talking about a very vibrant part of our lives.

Is it frightening to people? I think it is, very. Hoo, man, SEX, let's pretend that doesn't exist, or make it some adolescent parody, or do anything but actually look at it.

Just asking questions. I think my orignal question is worthy.

[LeeG]

Jack, you're not odd. Just retarded.

[ishmael]

Laugh all you want, Dan. I'm pretty resilient.

What do you actually think? You've been long on insult, short on ideas. Let's hear some ideas one can argue with. Without that it's just fluff.

[ishmael]

Yep, I'm retarded, Lee. I broach this vital topic, try to speak my take on it well, and I'm retarded.

The way of this world is going to lead us down to destruction. It's the devil's joke on us. And the devil is us. Carry on.

[Meerkat]

I'd like to have a lover again, think I will, hope so. It is, I think, a natural state. You can hope all you want, but until or unless you actually go out and do something about it, it's self-deceit. Nice girls don't make house calls.

[botebum]

I don't know if you're talking to me or the other Doug but my idea is- start slow and work your way up to a real woman.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d31/botesbabe/Stuff/catwoman.jpg

G'nite
Doug

[geeman]

I had to walk away from the computer for a while,This one was too much,and I thought I had heard just about all before,I was wrong,,,,,

[Ed Harrow]

Where's Scott McClellan?

[skuthorp]

I gave it all up for Lent, danged if I can remember which year though.......................

[ishmael]

Yeah, Scot him. I tried to reason with you, Ed. I wrote back, talked honest. And you ignored me.

Make him go away, we don't like him, he's a problem.

Good luck.

[Chris Coose]

Any port in a storm fellas. You guys are sounding like sophisticated sailors - the yacht club variety.

I'd rather have sex with my boat than a cat. I really had a swell time riveting some new hardware to the rudder yesterday. When I put my hand on the cat my eyes get itchy. Can't imagine getting any closer.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid186/p7e211e6d7e4ff2d0dce39d279a9aeaa1/f2541735.jpg

[ishmael]

Sigh. Boys will be boys.

[Garrison]

We relate damn well in and out of the sack.


joe gets lucky every time he and the little woman leave therapy

[Chris Coose]

I'd rather have sex with my boat than a cat.

Wait a minute!!! My boat is a cat!!! This business is getting complex. I really didn't care to get dragged into these deep psychological implications.

We wander around life looking to slip into the prettiest and richest port. The one that will bring us the safest pleasure. While searching, if a storm comes up we'll use any refuge. Some might find that place to be home and stay anchored.

[Popeye]

i looked it up , canine erectus if untreated may lead to a rarer form of cat copulus