Coho deck lines advise

[Scott Thompson]

For those of you familiar with the Coho I would like to ask your advise on running safety lines from the cockpit for and aft.

I wonder if you have any tips on mounting the padeyes on the bow and stern. Since the deck is pitched it won't lay flat either way. Pygmy recommended using webbing folded over.

Also should I use the exsisting padeyes I put on for the bungies or add new ones? I guess it is more of an aesthetic question but would like your input.

I love the look of a clean deck but everytime I go out with my experienced friends they give me the "eye" for not having deck lines ( a saftey issue)

Thanks,
SWT

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by Scott Thompson:
I wonder if you have any tips on mounting the padeyes on the bow and stern. Since the deck is pitched it won't lay flat either way. Pygmy recommended using webbing folded over.For mounting a padeye to a curved deck, assuming it's stainless steel rather than cast bronze, you can probably heat it red hot with a torch and…err…encourage it with a hammer to fit the deck (make a form of the right curvature first.)

Or, you can fit a mounting pad to the deck: the bottom should be carefully fit to the shape of the deck and the top flat. The through bolts you tie fasten the padeye down with should hold it in place.

In any event, don't forget a sizeable backing block underneath the deck to distribute stress on the padeye.

[Ian McColgin]

I second Nicholas's remarks about making a pad for the eye and through bolting to a good backing. There are adequately strong ss U bolts that would also do the job but good hard side loading on them, should you take a fall, is more likely to start the bolts in the wood and thus create leaks while a nice pad eye with four bolts in the base will stay leak free.

For the jack lines, get some nice tubular webbing, which is strong and takes a bowline well. If you choose to make it up with sewn eyes and shackles at each end make sure you provide adequate stitching. Google about for the OHSA standards for stitching safety harnesses or crane slings. Of course you'll shackle it with the pin through the web.

You can use the same pads to get jacklines on both sides of the mast so that no matter which tack you're on you can get fore and aft easily. The saftey tether to your harness should be either one arm length or from the jackline to standing at the rail, whichever is longer. Do have a 'biner at each end - makes it easy to unclip in an emergency if you don't have to struggle to the far end - and have a sharp folding knife permanently on your harness anyway.

G'luck

[ion barnes]

Instead of a pad eye, try a strap eye, and place across the hull rather than in-line. You can bend the ends easily in a vise and a tap with a hammer to adjust for the deck camber, and you are not going to affect the strength of the material (stainless steel). Brass strap eyes are another thing; they can be brittle.

Use more than just eyes at both ends of the boat, four more, fore and aft of the cockpit is advised to keep the lines under control if used for a wet re-entery.

[Ian McColgin]

Ion has a point about how far you can travel with a simple bow to stern jack line. Nonetheless, I preferr the unrestricted approach because I do not have to unclip and reclip at each juncture. I can think of more than a few stark and dormy nights tieing in a reef where the ability to move from one end of the boat to the other without dinking about with my tether connection was a very big plus.

I've not fallen over at sea but I did experiment at the mooring and I found that the jackline streatch did indeed put me below the gunnel if I caste myself over amidships, but it was not hard to swarm back aboard anyway.

I went to jack lines some forty years ago precisely to avoid the older practice of clipping to a lifeline and having to unclip and reclip at every stauncheon.

But the main thing is to utilize the approach you are comfortable with and can manipulate safely. As the saying goes, different boats, different long splices.

[LeeG]

Scott, I built a Coho, used webbing folded over with flared finish washers and machine screws for anchors. I think it took 4.5" lengths folded over to allow room for bungie and a perimeter line routed together. Some webbing loops were contiguous with hatch straps on the other side of the screw so the perimeter line was attached at more points. A couple of bungie/perimeter line anchors are located between the hatches and end of the kayak for spare paddle and securing the perimeter line.
Most production kayaks have two seperate lines in the front and back, but for awhile I routed one continuous 40' line that could be untied sitting in the cockpit to be used as needed.
This particular Coho went through additions every other year.
I'm not a fan of the two hole plastic eyelets because they take two holes, stick up/pokey and are restricted in the size/number of lines through them. A #10-#12screw with 1/2" washer on the inside is more than strong enough and the flat webbing is softer.
3/16", 5mm lines are convenient,,1/4" gets kind of thick but it is nicer on the hands.
On a Mariner Express I have a 3/16" perimeter line on the aft deck but the foredeck has one doubled length of 1/4" line from two recessed deck cleats in front of the cockpit. I've found that configuration is actually the most user friendly even though "no one does it that way". It's not that safe to loop your fingers through tight deck lines like you see on your average production sea kayak with tight nylon lines close to the deck.
When clambering out of a kayak at the beach I found I could grab the doubled 1/4" line quickly and with less strain on my fingers,,sure the toggle is the ideal handle but the open 6' of looped line has lots of spring and it's easy to grab compared to flush lines. Likewise for rescues grabbing the doubled 1/4" line on the foredeck made rescues easier than the super tight perimeter lines on production boats.
Given that you'll probably be using polypropelen or dacron lines it'll have a constant amount of slop,,using nylon isn't that great because they tighten up a lot when dry and loose when wet.
If the looped length of bow line is secured well it makes a fine painter, bow line tiedown on the car, or ad hoc tow line in case you need a short tow.

oh,,a worthwhile addition was 2" stainless rings imbedded 3/5 the way in the bow/stern of the deck so that the bow could be lifted at the beach and the kayak turned over onto the stern without grinding the glassed wood into the gravel/sand/asphalt when dumping out water. The ss. rings look nicer than big u-bolts but those work as well.
One more thing,,you'll find the nicest thing about the perimeter line is that if you route it about 1/2" above the sheer on the side panel (if I recall correctly) that you'll reduce the inevitable deck whacking from your paddle. Look at any well used sea kayak and you'll see paddle marks right on the edge of the foredeck above your feet. Every time your paddle hits the line instead of the deck you'll appreciate it.

[ 08-15-2004, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: LeeG ]

[Don Maurer]

I also used looped webbing on my kayaks for safety lines. They are low profile, as low maintenance free as fittings get and plenty strong. Near the cockpit I put a loop on bith sides of the grommet, using one for the safety line and the other side for bungees fore and aft of the cockpit. A stailess steel oval head machine screw with a finish washer on the outside, a fender washer and lock nut on the inside works well.

[Ian McColgin]

But duh duh duh - I didn't tumble to the fact that this is a kayak.

Both my boats have nice, recessed hardware with double fairleads provided where you'd want crossing bungees as well as the gunnel (perimeter) lines.

My gunnel lines are dacron. I like to make the run continuous bow to stern right around the boat, knots at the stern. You'll need fairleads on either side of the cockpit to keep them from interfering with doing up your spray skirt.

Some have argued that continuous lines are a hazard precisely due to the spray skirt issue but that's never been a problem for me. I bring my boats up on Granna's deck all the time by lifting on the bowline (another practice of mine the redoubtable Derrick disapproves of for the masses but gives me a pass for since it's nice to keep the boat alongside Granna while boarding) and then pull on the gunnel lines. It's a little easier to have continuous lines than have to make one longer reach to get to the cockpit lip. I also have a light bridle hanging from a fall on Grana so's I can clip on in the way of the cockpit and hoist then from deck. Usually she'll come out a bit by the bow, depending on how the kayak was loaded, but it's nice.

I set the lines as tightly as I can and have never had a problem getting my fingers in. Tight gunnel lines are less likely to foul with your paddle if you're thrashing about upsidedown in a less than perfect roll.

Have fun.

[LeeG]

Ian, I bet the admonishment about continuous lines comes from molded glass boats with recessed coamings,,,I've seen a P&H kayak with so little room between the coaming and deck you could get a fat finger caught in there. Also it costs less to use less line.