Simmons floorboards/deck?

[pmac]

First post...

Am in the process of building a 20' Simmons Sea Skiff. I noticed that there are a few other builders of SSSs here and had a question about the working deck. It looks like Ellis Rowe built the 18' featured in WoodenBoat Mag w/ a sealed floor making the skiff basically self-bailing? The original plans call for fore/aft floorboards. I would prefer to build the deck more like the boat featured recently in WoodenBoat, but was curious what people's thoughts or experiences with this boat were regarding floors, e.g., will a 20' skiff be self-bailing. I understand that repairs would be more troublesome with the sealed deck versus the removable floorboards.

Sorry if this post was confusing.

thanks

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j36/pmcmanus/121_2164.jpg

[FGsimmons]

First post...

Am in the process of building a 20' Simmons Sea Skiff. I noticed that there are a few other builders of SSSs here and had a question about the working deck. It looks like Ellis Rowe built the 18' featured in WoodenBoat Mag w/ a sealed floor making the skiff basically self-bailing? The original plans call for fore/aft floorboards. I would prefer to build the deck more like the boat featured recently in WoodenBoat, but was curious what people's thoughts or experiences with this boat were regarding floors, e.g., will a 20' skiff be self-bailing. I understand that repairs would be more troublesome with the sealed deck versus the removable floorboards.

Sorry if this post was confusing.

thanks

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j36/pmcmanus/121_2164.jpg

Nice work so far! I have a 20ft LS with a sealed deck, but my hull is made of glass. My boat sat for 4-5 years without use and did get some rot, but damage was minimal. When it was being used all the time never had a problem, but I have a glass over wood deck with a glass hull.

[Peter Page]

I buit mine about 5 years ago and sealed it's deck. I have two 8in ports in the deck to open when I think of it to air the under floor area. I put a lot of 1 and 2in holes in the floors to help. I also have a well behind the rear seat to take the spray and the odd wave top that gets in over the side. It just needs an extra set off drains that I take out last so I can check if any water is getting in. Havn't tried to see if it is self draining yet at the ramp by taking out the rear two drains but I will try in the warmer weather.
http://static.flickr.com/52/161404616_330d632481.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/55/132722431_bc3a6db080.jpg

[pipefitter]

I left mine accessible because all my wiring and cables are under there as are bilge pumps,etc. My floors are canted towards the chines and will have scuppers hosed to the exterior. My deck is semi self bailing. I wanted to be able to clean the bilge area of any debris or to just keep an eye on the solid wood floor frames.Also,in the event of bottom damage,I wanted to be able to get to it to seal it if I had to from the inside as well. I guess if you keep your eye on it it should be fine. It takes quite a bit of water in the boat to get to the center hatches before the scuppered drains won't keep up.After that,the bilge pump would take over. I also have all the plumbing for my livewell under there. Fittings and thru hulls I need to keep an eye on.

Your boat looks great. I have the plans for the 20 as well.It may be my next boat.

[Honda_Shadow]

PMAC -
What size did you make your motor well? I've got the plans for the 18' SSS, and in the original boat, the well seems a bit anorexic for todays 4-stroke 25HP motors. Width of the well? Motor shaft height? Depth from motor mount to transom? Arch height in transom?

[reeljob]

I am gettting ready to build a 20' SSS. I also have been wondering about the deck. THe bottom pan of the boat will be glassed and epoxied, maybe taped and definitely filleted w/ thickened epoxy. I'll put a foot wide or so perimeter of the deck and fillet and epoxy that into place, and the rest will be caulked and screwed down so as to be somewhaat easy to remove and still relatively watertight. SOme parts I will probably have hinged to open easily.

Where have any current owners or buillders located bilge pumps? I was thinking about putting a small one in each side of the motorwell. Any thoughts?

[pipefitter]

In a boat like the Simmons,it would be best to wait until you get it set up like you would use it normally equipped so that you can find it's natural low spot at rest.After you have it set up and it performs adequately,find the low spot by pouring a little water in the bilge and see where it settles. That way if the boat is at anchor and the pumps are set to auto,it will get rid of the water whether you are tending it or not. Such as when it is raining hard and putting water in the boat. The water in the rear could be mostly drained by pulling the plugs while under way,or you can just stop and let the water settle in the low point and then pump it out. Also,it can evacuate the water before you take off sending all the water to the rear.I don't care for the tiny channel between the last floor frame and the motor well so I omitted it and put the limber holes right next to the well on either side. Those have stoppers in them(corks) so that in the event that water gets on either side of the well I can let it drain towards the drains. Other than that,a large sponge will get that water out of those spaces if there is any left.
I also have a live baitwell that I need a pump and thru-hull fitting for under the deck which is another reason I left the bilge accessible.Most of the weight in my 18 will be forward so the belly of the boat should be also it's low point or close to it.Bilge pump,baitwell pump should end up in the same part of the bilge if all goes as planned which will make wiring and plumbing equally accessible. Only time I should get any real water in the boat is if it rains or after throwing the cast net so I will tend to it accordingly while getting the grass and trash out of the boat.Is pretty much how we treat any boat we are fishing out of.
If you build your boat according to plans with the laminated chines and solid frames,you shouldn't need to tape anything other than maybe a scarf on the interior. It's quite bombproof just glued,screwed and glassed over on the exterior. The glass on the bottom pan of the hull serves more to keep the plywood grain from checking and abrasion resistance. But the boat is plenty strong before the glass is applied.

[reeljob]

THanks. I like the idea of waiting till it floats to see about installing bilge pumps. I am now probably going to be using a combination of caulk and screwed down deck and some floorboard anchors from PYI Inc. This way, the deck can be watertight yet can be easily removed for bilge access. I don;t like the thought of having any parts of the boat permanently sealed off- I think that could only lead to problems in the future.

[Skiff Junkie]

Back in the late '80's and most of the '90's Nelson Silva built a number of Simmons replicas with self-bailing sealed bilges. He found that by raising the level of the floor by about 2 inches, it would insure self-bailing, even with the added weight of a 4-stroke motor in the well. I prefer to have the normal "wet" bilge, so I can pull up the floorboards and let it breathe, but if you decide to do the sealed bilge thing, just make sure that you add a couple ports, as Mr. Page suggested.

As for the width of the well, if it is widened to about 22 inches for an 18-footer, or 24 inches for a 20 or 22, that should accomodate just about any 4-stroke within the hp range for a Simmons. Interestingly enough, Mr. Simmons built my boat with an extra wide well (about 30"), because the original owner at first wanted to power it with twin 40hp Mercury outboards. For whatever reason (probably $$), he later changed his mind and ended up putting a single Evinrude 75 on it.

The lowest point in the water for an 18-foot Simmons is normally between floor frames 4 and 5. It's probably the same for a 20 or 22-footer too. This can vary, though, depending on weight distribution. If the boat is going to stay in the water for long periods of time, you most definately will want to keep the pump there. Mine is never in the water for more than a couple days at a time, so I just keep a pump on either side of the well (I always like to keep a spare). When I get the boat on a plane, the water runs to the back, and is pumped out within a few seconds. Mr. Simmons always put in one pump beside the well, on the same side of the boat as the battery.

[reeljob]

Skiff Junkie- i know for sure I will have an open/non-sealed bilge. I just don't like the thought of water under there with no way out. I also like just having one pump- two seems like overkill. It is difficult to work around the motorwell in the sense that water would collect on both sides, making two garboard plugs or two pumps necessary. If I remember correctly, when we saw the Simmons boat at the museum in Wilmington, there was a plug near the bottom of the port transom side, and not on the starboard. I guess that's where the battery was. There was also a thru-hull for a bilge drain- looked like it was added at a later time than it was built. I think that once this thing goes together, I will see more clearly where to put stuff.