New deck options

[Tiggersdaman]

Hello guys...I need a little advice on deck options, and I'm going to leave this post long for other readers that are researching deck options.

I am refitting a 63' 1944 WWII crashboat, not to original as it has already been 'redone', but to make her seaworthy as a coastal cruiser. I have estimated this project will take me approximately 142years to complete.:eek:

As it stands, she's been in a yard for six months with EXTENSIVE rework done on her framing(still not finished) due to freshwater rot with most of the work in the bilge along the keel where the fresh water tanks leaked for 60yrs and along the entire clamp beam where the deck has continually leaked. @#$@ that fresh water!

So my question revolves my choice of decking material. It currently has marine ply with canvas. Let me go over that again. Canvas and long term deck leaking. This thing has been leaking for YEARS and badly, primarily with cracks in the canvas/paint around the deck and bulwark edges.

So after a little research my decking options are: Canvas, Dynel, Fiberglass, Teak Plank, Teak Sheathing, or a Faux Teak product.
All would be applied over 3/4 marine ply or CPES treated Baltic Birch.

Either way, I will seal the exposed side of the ply with CPES and then WEST, allowing the ply to breathe (thus dissipate moisture) through the internal side.

My options:
Canvas...wow, am I hesitant to go this way after all the extensive failure areas. But the previous installation may have been flawed. Seriously.

Dynel.... Sounds like a viable option, but sounds like a tougher canvas. And from the forum, it seems to leave a surface of 80grit. I have tender buns. Any solution to this? Can I put on a heavy coat of paint(leaving a thin coat on the inside for breathing).

Fiberglass.... a lot of work for a 63' boat, plus I like wood. I can work with wood. And as I'm doing this myself, and I've never glassed, how tough would this be?

Teak plank.... great looking, last forever. Did I mention I don't like places where a deck can leak? Planking has a lot of edges where fresh water can penetrate.

Teak paneling.... hmmm. 1/4" teak & holly sheating over 3/4 marine ply which has been CPES coated and EPOXY'd for protection.
Little area for penetration. Teak look and feel. Easy to apply. Disadvantage, thin teak veneer only allows for a few sandings. So I replace it every ten years. Not too bad. Question, how would I glue it down over the sealed ply, yet being able to remove it without delaminating the ply? Bedding compound in grooves like laying tile? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Faux teak.... expensive, and the thought of my deck being a big rubber mat on my boat isn't too appealing. I think I'll leave this one for the new shiny fiberglass boys.

So at this point, as an expansive deck option over ply, I am thinking of either Dynel or the Teak paneling, but I need some advice to swing either way.

Thanks guys,
:o

[jlapratt]

Tigger,

There is a fundamental flaw in your thinking about plywood; plywood doesn't "breath." The glueline between the plys essentially prevents this. Plywood will absorb moisture via the exposed edge. When you seal the face of the plywood, you are protecting only the exposed face. When you edge seal the plywood, you are protecting the entire sheet. 3 coats epoxy only on the undersides and edges. Epoxy and cloth on top.

I sounds as if you've identified the leak as faulty canvas & paint at deck edges. There are many resources that describe sealing these highly vulnerable joints using epoxy and cloth (dynel or fiberglass). With a plywood deck, some sort of epoxy and cloth is highly recommended before teak deck covering is applied.

The teak and holly plywood (not usually holly, btw) I've seen is not rated for exterior use. Not to say that one couldn't seal the edges and use 6oz of glass with 3 coats of epoxy, but it is taking a huge chance IMOHO.

You also have to be carefull using CPES under epoxy. It takes quite a while (weeks I seem to remember) for the CPES solvents to flash off. I also think it isn't necessary to use both. 3 coats of epoxy are more effective in preventing water absorption than CPES (search for Paul Oman's tests on the same).

There is just no cheap and easy way to redeck a 63 footer.

Jeff

[ddeaton]

Tiger, I left you a answer in my dynel post. I am a stickler on wanting to do everything the traditional or original way something was intended to be built, and I am no expert. But I am learning every day. I agree with Jeff, the teak ply I looked at is not exterior rated. I love the way my dynel has turned out so far. You can finish the grain texture as course or fine as you like. After the cloth is layed down with the first coat and cured, sand the fuzz from the surface lightly. Apply as many thinned epoxy coats as you please and sand a little to leave as much of the grain as you like. I would love to try real canvas with white lead, but I have a ply deck and that wasnt an option. I figured the dynel would be the best route for the look I was after. I have some scraps if you want to try a couple test boards.

[Tiggersdaman]

Thanks Jeff, I stand corrected on the plywood breathing. The basic construction of plywood with waterproof glue layers is different than solid wood.

On the CPES, when I used West Marines CPES, I had mixed results and didn't like it, but with Smiths CPES experiments came out better. I put down the CPES, and while it's a bit tacky, apply West resin & clamp the wood lightly and the damn thing sticks solid. In fact, when applying the West resin alone to old wood, upon stress, it actually tears the wood apart, while using the CPES holds tight as it actually holds the wood together internally.


I also checked more diligently with my marine lumber supplier after your feedback on the teak and holly(really maple) paneling, and discovered they are selling it as exterior grade for boats because it uses exterior grade glue and you use it on boats.
Gee, kinda like this yugo has a speedometer of 140mph so....

In this case, however pretty it is....it stays inside. Too bad.

So now it looks like Dynel is the winner.:)

Thanks Deaton for the info, I can get some scraps and practice. It sounds as if you were able to whip it out with too much cursing, so I am feeling a bit more confident.

thanks guys.

[ddeaton]

Tiggersdaman,
I forgot to mention, I had to iron (low setting) the fabric prior to using it. I layed the first panel, and the creases where it was kinda folded and shipped showed a little after curing. Ironing got it out.:)
Danny

[tomdownard]

Could you post a picture? I am restoring two boats right now. I really would like to get it down to one at a time!

[outofthenorm]

Other than a purist ethic, there is no good reason to use canvas anymore. An epoxy/dynel/paint system would work better and last longer, but still look much the same as the original (if that matters to you). The resulting 80-grit surface is usually considered a good thing - best non-slip possible - but an extra layer or two of paint could dial it down to about 120-grit.

- Norm