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Nicholas Carey
06-01-2006, 09:10 PM
This just in, vis-a-vis the upcoming World Cup...


Motorists who attach England flags to their car windows ahead of the World Cup may wish to reconsider. According to police in Hampshire, dangerously executed displays of patriotism can scare wildlife, cause horses to bolt, and may result in criminal prosecution.

Officers at the force's wildlife crime office warned yesterday that the "loud flutter" generated by car window flags was startling horses and other wildlife, particularly in the New Forest area.

[full story (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1787123,00.html)]

Phillip Allen
06-01-2006, 09:13 PM
One wonders who will sign the complaint?

geeman
06-01-2006, 09:15 PM
So the UK bans Uk flags too?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Phillip Allen
06-01-2006, 09:16 PM
only if the little flagstaffs have pointy ends

Salty Sea Dog
06-02-2006, 02:47 AM
Geeman, you are not too far off the mark. One school tried to ban them for being a "racist" symbol. Apparently us indigenous Brits are not allowed to support our own country in case we upset anyone from an ethnic minority. I should imagine in the States that if anyone suggested banning the flag he would, quite rightly, be hung from the flagpole - just under the flag of course.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
06-02-2006, 03:08 AM
Motorists who attach England flags to their car windows....

The man's right but it would in any case be social death and punishable by ostracism.

When in England you can fly- welsh or scottish, when in Wales the scottish or english, and when in Scotland - english or welsh.

Manx (Isle of Man) and norwegian flags are always permitted.
http://fotw.vexillum.com/images/i/im.gif

Andrew Craig-Bennett
06-02-2006, 03:52 AM
A better comparison, in USA terms, with flying the Cross of St George (red cross on white ground - the English national flag until 1602, when we got a Scots king who merged it with the cross of St Andrew (white saltire on blue) the flag of Scotland) is to think of flying the Confederate flag.

The cross of St George was appropriated by extreme right wing and racist elements for many years. Yes, you can fly it to show support for England, and to "reclaim" it from the right wing nutters, but do the people who see it know whether you are:

(a) someone who supports England for the World Cup, or

(b) A racist bigot, or

(c) Both?

I would noty be seen dead with one, and flying a flag from your car is naff.

There is an exception; the flag is flown from the towers of churches in the Church of England as a religious symbol; in this connection it is quite acceptable.

It may be flown from boats in one very particular circumstance - "Dunkirk Little Ships" - the boats that went to Dunkirk in May 1940 to evacuate troops - have it as their association ensign. Otherwise it risks confusion with the White Ensign of the Royal Navy.

Salty Sea Dog
06-02-2006, 04:10 AM
Andrew, I agree that flying the flag from cars is very naff and I can't wait for the world cup to be over and all the hype and crap with it. I still find it hard that we are not allowed to be proud of being English without being labeled "racist".

Although I'm English I have lived very happily in Wales for many years and I like the fact that the Welsh fly their flag and have their car stickers. If I went into the pub and said that this was a racist act by the Welsh against us English I would be laughed at and forced to buy a round for everyone in the pub!!

This poxy government and their stupid hangers on have made it almost a crime to claim to be English. Gordon Brown is jumping on a band wagon by banging on about "Britishness" but he will do anything to move one from 11 to 10 in Downing Street. Heaven help us if he manages to!

Apologies to you guys across the Pond but I felt like a Friday morning rant!!

Wild Wassa
06-02-2006, 04:17 AM
Upsetting the nags? ... you should see how the Baaahhh-mm-y Ahhhh-mm-y ... upset Aussie sheep.

Warren.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
06-02-2006, 04:21 AM
I quite agree.

As JM Barrie observed, either before or after writing "Peter Pan", "There are few more impressive sights than a Scotsman on the make", and that is just what we have in No 11 Downing Street at present

Brown's promotion of "Britishness" is the traditional device used by a Scotsman on the make in England, it goes back to at least 1711, when the first Scots descended on London calling themselves "North Britons".

Samuel Johnson, who was as English as can be, detested them.

I think we are stuck with it - the use of the red cross by the BNP and its precursors means that most people, seeing that flag, don't know what message it is conveying. But you don't see it flown by black or brown Englishmen, and that tells me something.

The Tudor rose, on the other hand, is an equally good symbol of England and has no negative connotations - except on the rugger field if you are not English!:)

Andrew Craig-Bennett
06-02-2006, 04:28 AM
Upsetting the nags? ... you should see how the Baaahhh-mm-y Ahhhh-mm-y ... upset Aussie sheep.

Warren.


"It doesn't make any difference what you do in the bedroom as long as you don't do it in the street and frighten the horses."


Mrs Patrick Campbell, actress, 1865-1940

Wild Wassa
06-02-2006, 04:28 AM
There is a negative connotation when using the Tudor Rose ... have you ever seen it as an image on wallpaper?

Warren.

Salty Sea Dog
06-02-2006, 04:29 AM
Now we're talking about a real World Cup!

At least its a game which is played with no 19 year old illiterate earning totally obscene amounts of money - now the git has been paid 5 million to "write" books!!

Sorry another rant - must go and lie down in a dark room or have a large glass of Shiraz!

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
06-02-2006, 04:30 AM
....
The Tudor rose, on the other hand, is an equally good symbol of England and has no negative connotations - except on the rugger field if you are not English!:)

Which colour rose then.

One common device for proclaiming englishness abroad (Wales counts as abroad) is the flying of a totally irrelevant flag - Skull and Crossbones, house flag for a pre-war german shipping concern or a Shell-Mex job...

Many (most?) English counties have a well known symbol - could you not fly that?

Wild Wassa
06-02-2006, 04:34 AM
Salty Dog that's unfair ... you shouldn't slander a cripple.

Warren.

Salty Sea Dog
06-02-2006, 04:38 AM
I keep my boat in West Wales and I never show anything English in case I get attacked by Viet Taff pirates - very prevalent off the Pembrokeshire coast!

Salty Sea Dog
06-02-2006, 04:41 AM
Wassa - not even a mental cripple? Well mental pygmy anyway

Andrew Craig-Bennett
06-02-2006, 04:45 AM
"Come home to a real fire - buy a cottage in Wales!"

The late Arthur Minton, of Minton Treharne and Davies, Cardiff, a world renowned firm of combustion chemists, had a cottage a tad north of Pembroke ("little England beyond Wales!" ) with a discreet sign in the garden, in Welsh, proclaiming (a) his genealogy and (b) his field of expertise....:)

We haven't got anything by way of a county symbol here in Silly Suffolk - if we had it would probably be a sheep.

Quite agree about the World Cup - we already hold it (though we cannot really hope to retain it!:( ) and I have no interest in the display of Tap Toe that is about to happen in Germany.;)

Wild Wassa
06-02-2006, 04:50 AM
Salty are you on cable and if so, do you get the Australian Special Broadcasting Service, SBS, in Ol' Blighty? ... just like we get BBC World.

Right at the moment Nerds United FC are playing the professional team Melbourne Victory ... I'm predicting a 18-0 whitewash ... there are even 25,000 people at the game. If you like to laugh it could be worth a look.

... it is the first goal to Melbourne and the game is less than an eye blink old. It is nearly a second goal by the time I typed another two words.

Australia is World Cup mad at the moment. So am I.

Warren.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
06-02-2006, 05:00 AM
http://www.suffolk.gov.uk/onesuffolk/images/scclogo.png
There you go - waste a day - what is that?.

formerlyknownasprince
06-02-2006, 05:03 AM
One common device for proclaiming englishness abroad (Wales counts as abroad) is the flying of a totally irrelevant flag

Yes - quite so. One of my English sales guys showed me his new city digs yesterday ($3,000 a month! - just across the road from the Hero of Waterloo) Nice flagpole in the front yard - which he is planning on flying knickers from. Methinks the Church next door may complain.

Salty Sea Dog
06-02-2006, 05:04 AM
Doug, That looks like two chickens being roasted over the sun so can't use that as the Animal Rights people will be up in arms!

Andrew Craig-Bennett
06-02-2006, 05:05 AM
Dunno! Two bats over a spiky ball? Rings no bells with me. But this, from the thieving blighters' website, is quite neat:

http://www.suffolk.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/7F4F67D8-F2E2-489F-9CAE-39F9212165D5/72094/suffolkscenes1.gif

Salty Sea Dog
06-02-2006, 05:06 AM
Maybe a nun's knickers will do the trick. He could fly it when he's holding a Monk's Ball

Milo Christensen
06-02-2006, 05:42 AM
Oh, I say, how veddy jocular you are this morning.

Jolly good fun, carry on.

Graham Knight
06-02-2006, 07:37 AM
Andrew correctly points out the flag of St George was, and still is, used by the racist far right, and so was the Union Flag, more so I would have thought.
When I see newsreels from the '70s and remember the National Front marches from that decade, it's mostly the Union Flag that they flew.
For the past 20 years or more I've felt very self-conscious about flying either flag because of this connotation, and I can fully understand why some schools and other public bodies have been reluctant to fly them for this reason.
But it's time to claim them back from these people, England and the United Kingdom have been around far longer than they have, and the vast majority of English and British people don't support their views and want nothing to do with them.
It's time to consign them to the dustbin of history and take back what is ours, to proudly display our national flags in the spirit they were intended.