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cs
05-24-2006, 08:41 AM
Since my best vocals thread kinda flopped, what about the best metal band?

This is not tounge in cheek. Would actually want to know what you think. I will list a few in the poll.

Chad

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
05-24-2006, 08:46 AM
The Berlin Phil.

Joe (SoCal)
05-24-2006, 09:22 AM
I voted for Metalica but I think a few more could be in your poll

Like:

Exodus
Type O Negative
Pantera

Tar Devil
05-24-2006, 09:24 AM
Ozzie/Black Sabbath... kinda redundant, isn't it?

Dude, where's Vanilla Fudge? ... Bloodrock? ... Def Leppard? ... Motely Crew?

I'll toss my vote for Butterfly, but Fudge was better! :)

Later,

Phil

cs
05-24-2006, 09:26 AM
I thought about that Phil, but really Black Sabbath and Ozzy both had contributions beyond being together.

Def Leppard and Motley Crew could have been on that list, but I could only put in 10 choices.

Chad

Paul Pless
05-24-2006, 10:18 AM
Chad, what do you think of Tool?

Tom M.
05-24-2006, 10:57 AM
AC/DC kicks all ass! Except maybe Led Zep. But Led Zep and AC/DC aren't really metal in my book. So maybe I don't like metal.

Hey, what makes music "metal" anyway? Is it a dark theme? Crazy distortion?

cs
05-24-2006, 11:11 AM
I have no opinion of Tool. In other words they don't stand out to me.

To me Heavy metal is a form of music that relies on a lot of power chords. Volume and distoration is a big part of metal. A typical metal band will have a drummer, a bass player and two guitarist. Themes can be kinda dark, but that is not always the case.

Big thing is the power chords, volume and distoration.

Chad

BTW AC/DC is defintitly metal in my book

Popeye
05-24-2006, 11:15 AM
spinal tap is a heavy mental band

Katherine
05-24-2006, 11:25 AM
Suddenly I feel very, very young.

cs
05-24-2006, 11:26 AM
Joe I just saw that you think Pantera, but to me I never thought they were that good. They are one of those of a sub group I call thrash metal. They seem to sing way to much of an "evil" (for lack of better words) voice and tend to way over distort their music. Most of their music (to me anyway) has the same sound.

Chad

cs
05-24-2006, 11:27 AM
Katherine, I'm not even sure if there are any true heavy metal bands out there now. BTW you need to vote.

Chad

Katherine
05-24-2006, 11:29 AM
Fine. I voted. Truthfully I don't spend much time listening to any of those bands.

cs
05-24-2006, 11:40 AM
Some interesting observations.

First Metalica and Led Zepplen are tied for first. No suprises here.

The Cult has no votes, again no suprise.

KISS, the "Rock Gods" have no votes, big suprise.

The only Black Sabatha vote is mine, another suprise.

No votes for Ozzy, mild suprize.

Chad

cs
05-24-2006, 11:44 AM
Fine. I voted. Truthfully I don't spend much time listening to any of those bands.


Katherine maybe you need to open up and step out of your rut and listen to good old head banging blow your speakers make your ears bleed neighbors cry music.

Chad

pipefitter
05-24-2006, 11:48 AM
All of those groups mentioned used to be classed as hard rock. Ozzy was better the 2nd time around sound wise with the Randy Rhodes guitar, making that sound that made you want to listen to it. Heavy metal was for groups like "kick axe" for one. Modern day equivalent to heavy metal would be the group "disturbed". Vocalist yelling,screaming with more of an angry/hate sound. Heavy metal is not a good thing to listen to during rush hour or high stress times.

My boss gets nauseated when he listens to pink floyd's the wall album. I told him it was a secret subliminal bug that floyd put in their music to get back at people when they sold out to country music later on in life.

Katherine
05-24-2006, 11:49 AM
Chad, I've got nothing against heavy metal, it's just not something I spend a lot of time listening too.

cs
05-24-2006, 11:52 AM
In my opinion the term Heavy Metal really came into play with Metallica, but for general purposes I think all the bands listed above could and should be classified as Heavy Metal.

Funny you should say hate sound. One of my friends, who is a big metal head, calls it "Hate Music."

Chad

Memphis Mike
05-24-2006, 11:52 AM
I voted for AC/DC but then I'm an Angus wannabe.

cs
05-24-2006, 11:53 AM
I saw that Mike. I was kinda suprised. I figured you would have been more of an Iron Butterfly head banger.

Chad

Katherine step on to the wild side and crank it up.

Katherine
05-24-2006, 11:56 AM
Ya know, I do get out once in awhile.:rolleyes:

cs
05-24-2006, 11:57 AM
Need to make a correction. I said up top that Metallica was when the term "Heavy Metal" really came about, but that is wrong. The movie "Heavy Metal" may be have where it started, but not many of those groups are really heavy.

Chad

pipefitter
05-24-2006, 12:05 PM
AC/DC is still great to listen to. One of my favorites with both before and after vocalists.I listened to country music when I was married and not having so much fun anymore. I listen to all of the old heavy metal except for guns'n roses. I find that I like hard rock/heavy metal still. It moves you. Especially at work in a fast paced, physical environment where you have to move your feet to get stuff done. And it still sounds better loud than not.

cs
05-24-2006, 12:08 PM
Interesting quote I found.


Perhaps the earliest song that is clearly identifiable as prototype heavy metal is "You Really Got Me" by The Kinks (1965).

Never really thought of The Kinks as Metal.

Chad

AC/DC is awesome and one of my favorite bands.

BrianW
05-24-2006, 12:14 PM
Didn't Sammy Hagar do the theme song for the movie Heavy Metal? Sammys not exactly Metal, not even with Van Hagar/Halen.

cs
05-24-2006, 12:21 PM
Sammy did a song on the album called "Heavy Metal" but the one you are probably thinking of is "Heavy Metal (Takin' a Ride) which was Don Fielder.

Chad

mmd
05-24-2006, 12:23 PM
"Suddenly I feel very, very young." - Katherine

Don't worry, Katherine, there's still time. My 15-year-old daughter (she who so recently was enamoured with the likes of The Used and HIM) just informed me the other day that she wanted to borrow my Zepplin and Joe Satriani CD's so she could show her friends "what really good rock sounded like, and do we have any Deep Purple CD's?".

There's hope for the child yet...

"Hush! Hush!
I thought I heard her callin' my name, now
Hush! Hush!"

cs
05-24-2006, 12:29 PM
Michael I knew you were alright, and by you actually owning a Satarini CD you have proved it.:)

Chad

Still not believing that KISS has gotten no votes.

Gary E
05-24-2006, 12:36 PM
Is there a reason they have not all been tossed in a burlap sack along with a couple of Cment blocks and dropped in the river?

mmd
05-24-2006, 12:50 PM
A Satriani CD?!! You think I own only one? <grin>

You do understand, though, that when arranged alphabetically Satriani is in very close proximity to Sibelius, don't you? Ya gotta diversify...

cs
05-24-2006, 12:56 PM
Well I was hoping it wasn't only one, but I didn't want to push my luck.;)

BTW my Satairni lives next to Santana.

Chad

mmd
05-24-2006, 01:08 PM
Actually, Satriani next to Sibelius is a bit of hyperbole on my part. Between Maureen & I we have so many frikkin' CD's that they are broken into categories, then alphabetized. So in Rock & Pop, Male Artist, Solo it runs Joe Satriani, Boz Skaggs, Al Stewart, etc. Over in Rock & Pop, Group there is Santana (yeah, I know Carlos is now a solo artist, but he started out as a group), Savoy Brown, Smashmouth, Sum 41, etc. Sibelius is in the classical section, two shelves down.

Then there is the vinyl collection... <sheesh!>

George.
05-24-2006, 01:14 PM
The term started with the movie, as far as I know...

The Kinks were probably the precursors. Van Halen did a good pre- Sammy Hagar version of "You Really Got Me" that sort of demonstrates that.

And Chad, though I voted for Zeppelin, Black Sabbath gets honorable mention - they certainly represent an evolution of the genre. As does Ozzy solo.

And I am surprised that no "youngsters" voted for Maiden... :D

mmd
05-24-2006, 01:22 PM
OF course, all of this "dinosaur rock" has evolved into the present day, when heavy metal bands are now mainstream. Why, a heavy metal act named Lordi has just won the Eurovision Song Contest, previously won by the likes of Abba and Celine Dion.

http://www.eurovision.tv/english/img/06_finland_2006_right.jpg

"Wings on my back
I got horns on my head
My fangs are sharp
And my eyes are red
Not quite an angel
Or the one that fell
Now choose to join us or go straight to Hell

Hard Rock Hallelujah!
Hard Rock Hallelujah!
Hard Rock Hallelujah!
Hard Rock Hallelujah!
"

cs
05-24-2006, 01:35 PM
Dinosaur rock, Jeez. Just trying to make me feel old ain't you.

I was suprised that the term heavy metal first appeared in a song back in 1968 in "Born to be Wild" by Steppenwolf according to Wikipedia. The songwriter for Blue Oyster Cult claimed to make the first usage of the word in 1970, but than the manager for Jimmi Hendrix claims that the term Heavy Metal was from a newspaper article on the Jimmi Hendrix Experiance, "...like listening to heavy metal falling from the sky."

Chad

Bruce Taylor
05-24-2006, 01:43 PM
I was suprised that the term heavy metal first appeared in a song back in 1968 in "Born to be Wild" by Steppenwolf according to Wikipedia.

Yeah, it was definitely current before the film (made in Montreal in the early eighties...I painted a couple of cells for it, but musta been too slow, 'cause they never called me back!). When I first saw the America version of Metal Hurlant in the late seventies, I assumed it was a music publication.

Funny how kids are still listening to Sabbath & Deep Purple, which I was deep into at the age of 12. I still have to thump time on the dashboard when the "classic" rock channel plays ACDC...but I guess I'll vote for the Zep.

Anybody see the Metallica film "Some Kind of Monster"? Interesting to watch the guys in the studio.

Meerkat
05-24-2006, 01:44 PM
The Berlin Phil.That's more like it! :)

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
05-24-2006, 02:27 PM
Has anyone else heard the Nice/ Five Bridges version of the Intermezzo from the Karelia (Rock band + full Orch)

Or The London Phil doing Led Zep....

Robin Trower?

Paul Pless
05-24-2006, 02:31 PM
I'd classify some of the bands a little differently

Led Zeppelin would be blues driven rock as would be artists like Jimi Hendrix.

Metalica is the other one in this group that doesn't neatly fit. originally they were classified as a speed metal group.

Chad check out the Tool website. You can even download a few songs of theirs from their homepage. Extremely hard, cutting edge music, but musically very good.

mmd
05-24-2006, 02:42 PM
I have a CD of the London Phil doing "The Music of Pink Floyd"...

cs
05-24-2006, 02:53 PM
I've notitcted that a few of you haven't voted yet (hint to Michael, Paul & Meerkat).

Paul I'll check out Tool, but you gotta vote.;)

Chad

Paul Pless
05-24-2006, 03:00 PM
alrighty I voted, whenyou say best metal band, I gotta go with the band that put out albums like these

http://www.metallicamp.de/media/covers/ride/ridefront.JPG

and

http://www.ilbaluardo.com/Cover/Audio/M%20-%20N%20-%20O/METALLICA%20-%20Kill%20'em%20all%20-%20Front.jpg

cs
05-24-2006, 03:00 PM
Zep is really starting to take off into the lead, and still no votes for KISS.

Chad

cs
05-24-2006, 03:02 PM
Did I tell you that I meet the band once? Even had back stage passes. The only one that wasn't there was Lars.

Chad

TomF
05-24-2006, 03:07 PM
Zep is really starting to take off into the lead, and still no votes for KISS.

ChadOf course!

My kids like Led Zep too, though two of them are of the age to avert their eyes when Dad starts rockin'.:D

How could one vote for Kiss in such a poll? Masterful marketing, but ick overall, really. Derivative, even if they did have some good tunes. Led Zep on the other hand ...

cs
05-24-2006, 03:20 PM
KISS really set the tone for Rock n Roll and made it mainstream, IMHO.

Chad

BrianW
05-24-2006, 03:33 PM
KISS really set the tone for Rock n Roll and made it mainstream, IMHO.

Chad

I thought that was Elvis?

JimD
05-24-2006, 03:40 PM
I am saddened and troubled that my fellow old pharts on this forum still have any interest in listening to or discussing this sort of adolencent noise.

ken_nyus
05-24-2006, 03:51 PM
I have a CD of the London Phil doing "The Music of Pink Floyd"...

Don't forget the Concerto for Group and Orchestra by Deep Purple (1970?), which they also performed for the second time in 1999.

cs
05-24-2006, 03:53 PM
Jim we just refuse to grow up.

Brian, yes Elvis did that, but KISS took the next step with the hard power chord rock. Not saying that others weren't before them, but they made the sound immenssly popular. Ask yourself how many times you've seen a garage band that didn't play "Rock 'n Roll All Night."

Chad

JimD
05-24-2006, 04:02 PM
Jim we just refuse to grow up.

Chad, I prefer to give you the benefit of the doubt and allow that you cannot, are incapable of growing up. Like the crimes of a psychopath it is not your fault. The thought that you guys are this way by choice weighs too heavily to bear :confused: ;) :D

cs
05-24-2006, 04:03 PM
So Jim, who is your vote for? ;)

Chad

JimD
05-24-2006, 04:12 PM
So Jim, who is your vote for? ;)

Chad

Iron Butterfly set the standard for hard and dark. (Black Sabath was more inteligent - War Pigs was brilliant). Led Zep were more important to me because they actually wrote melodies. Note the similarity between the two names. Both are oxymorons for very light weight flying objects made of a very heavy material. Later on I liked The Cult or at least the best of the Cult. But I haven't listened to any of it in many years and never will. Most of the rest I lump into a genre I'd describe as trailer park ugly. The musical equivalent of tv wrestling. You guys are still sick ;)

mmd
05-24-2006, 06:23 PM
JimD, you're starting to sound like the poster boy for the prematurely aged. <wink>

Chad, you're just enamoured by Kiss 'cause you never got to hear all those great Canadian hair bands that came out at the same time as Kiss, thanks to the CanCon regulations. Groups like the Headpins, Crowbar, Trooper, Triumph, Saga, BTO, Rough Trade, The Pursuit Of Happiness, Rush, Loverboy, Max Webster, Toronto, and on, and on...

And while we're delving into the dusty corners of our record bins - you know, the old plastic milk crates that were just the right size for vinyl LP's - whaddabout those mouldy old goodies like Status Quo, Slade, Mountain, etc.?

I gotta vote? Zepplin, hands down.

cs
05-24-2006, 06:34 PM
Naw, I've just seen the impact of KISS in concert. I'm a big fan of Rush and Triumph. Loverboy take em or leave em. BTO pretty cool. But we all know that Alice Cooper is the man. I am kinda suprised that KISS is getting no votes.

One I thought about putting on the list, but really wasn't sure because he kinda stands alone is Ted Nuggent. Outstanding axe man and insane to boot. Puts on a great show though.

Chad

ishmael
05-24-2006, 06:51 PM
What, exactly, is heavy metal?

Is it a tapping into the dark side, engaged by adolescents who, for some reason, seem to love the Satanic?

Is it a joke, a spoof, ala Spinal Tap?

I look at the inheritors of the tradition, like Marilyn Manson, and wonder just what this nihilism is about. And make not mistake, spoof or not, it's a nihilism.

I'm not of the mind that says this is evil. Sometimes things need to be spoken, or sung. But I've never liked listening to it. It's too abrasive, and not even good to dance to, for the most part.

Give me Leonard Cohen if you want existential angst. The boys in the paint and costume are pikers compared to him.

cs
05-24-2006, 06:57 PM
Metal is that raw primaval force that reaches into you and grabs the wildness within. It is not nihilism. Music doesn't have to be about dancing. Good music conveys a feeling, and metal does do that.

You don't have to like it, but I do. It is definitly a lot better than that pre-packaged bubble gum rock (ie Loverboy, sorry Michael).

Chad

Larry P.
05-24-2006, 07:00 PM
voted for Led Zep, but I would also add Rush and Deep Purple.

Katherine
05-24-2006, 07:35 PM
One I thought about putting on the list, but really wasn't sure because he kinda stands alone is Ted Nugent. Outstanding axe man and insane to boot. Puts on a great show though.

Chad

Ted's got quite the reputation here in Michigan. My BIL had to deliver a load of lumber to his compound. He dropped the load and got out of there as fast as he could, it was a little freaky. :D

S/V Laura Ellen
05-24-2006, 07:43 PM
A vote for Black Sabbath is a vote for Ozzy (or is it the other way around). Either way Black Sabbath and Ozzy pioneered heavy metal.

S/V Laura Ellen
05-24-2006, 07:50 PM
Suddenly I feel very, very young.

It was probably well before your time, but Ozzy had a career in "heavy metal" before his TV show.:D :D :D

JimD
05-24-2006, 07:50 PM
mmd, I absolutely detested hair bands, KISS being the ultimate testament to mass appeal garbage. But I liked Rough Trade who were closer to the artsy phartsy side of things. The Clash, now there was a band ;)

S/V Laura Ellen
05-24-2006, 08:20 PM
KISS is for kids. :D :D :D :D :D

JimD
05-24-2006, 08:32 PM
KISS is for kids. :D :D :D :D :D

So that was it! Being prematurely aged I had already stopped watching cartoons by the time they came along. :D

Stiletto
05-25-2006, 03:08 AM
The term heavy metal was coined for Led Zeppelin.


When I saw them live in the early seventies part of their act included a rock and roll medley.
I'll never forget their version of 'Hello Mary Lou'.

I wish there was a recorded version of it.

ishmael
05-25-2006, 04:55 AM
I don't care what those adolescent, love-sick crooners sing about Satan and the apocalypse(isn't that a big part of it?), this is the real deal when it comes to apocalyptics in modern music.


The Future

Give me back my broken night
my mirrored room, my secret life
it's lonely here,
there's no one left to torture
Give me absolute control
over every living soul
And lie beside me, baby,
that's an order!

Give me crack and anal sex
Take the only tree that's left
and stuff it up the hole
in your culture
Give me back the Berlin wall
give me Stalin and St Paul
I've seen the future, brother:
it is murder.
Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore
The blizzard, the blizzard of the world
has crossed the threshold
and it has overturned
the order of the soul
When they said REPENT REPENT
I wonder what they meant
When they said REPENT REPENT
I wonder what they meant
When they said REPENT REPENT
I wonder what they meant

You don't know me from the wind
you never will, you never did
I'm the little jew
who wrote the Bible
I've seen the nations rise and fall
I've heard their stories, heard them all
but love's the only engine of survival
Your servant here, he has been told
to say it clear, to say it cold:
It's over, it ain't going
any further
And now the wheels of heaven stop
you feel the devil's riding crop
Get ready for the future:
it is murder

Things are going to slide ...

There'll be the breaking of the ancient
western code
Your private life will suddenly explode
There'll be phantoms
There'll be fires on the road
and the white man dancing
You'll see a woman
hanging upside down
her features covered by her fallen gown
and all the lousy little poets
coming round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson
and the white man dancin'

Give me back the Berlin wall
Give me Stalin and St Paul
Give me Christ
or give me Hiroshima
Destroy another fetus now
We don't like children anyhow
I've seen the future, baby:
it is murder

Things are going to slide ...

When they said REPENT REPENT ...

Cohen

cs
05-25-2006, 06:51 AM
Jack, just to give you some insight to some heavy metal lyrics and I won't tell you who it is. Hard core folks should recgonize them.


Crazy, but thats how it goes
Millions of people living as foes
Maybe its not to late
To learn how to love
And forget how to hate


Mother, please show the children
Before it's too late
To fight each other, there's no one winning
We must fight all the hate

Chad

Larry P.
05-25-2006, 06:56 AM
Thanks Chad now I'll have that tune in my head all day.:mad: I need to hear Buffet, I boat is supposed to be splashed today

cs
05-25-2006, 07:10 AM
I've got a couple of friends that have that first one as their ringtone. Sounds just like a radio when their phone rings.

Chad

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
05-25-2006, 07:30 AM
Cat's foot iron claw
Neuro-surgeons scream for more
At paranoia's poison door.


Metal? or Non-Metallic?

Did anyone add anything more significant than theatrical make-up to metal after the Deep Purple "In Rock" album?

"Snoek On the Water" - heavy metal fishing song...

Bruce Taylor
05-25-2006, 07:39 AM
what those adolescent, love-sick crooners sing about Satan and the apocalypse(isn't that a big part of it?)

The "evil" schtick -- "Check me out, I'm in league with the Devil...I'm soooo wicked" -- is as old as the blues. Think of John Jackson ("I'm a bad, bad man / nobody knows how bad I am / Don't care for pooolice / judge and a jury...etc.), or RObert Johnson:

"Early this mornin'
when you knocked upon my door
Early this mornin', ooh
when you knocked upon my door
And I said, "Hello, Satan,"
I believe it's time to go."


Me and the Devil
was walkin' side by side
Me and the Devil, ooh
was walkin' side by side
And I'm goin' to beat my woman
until I get satisfied"

Same goes for some of the other poses you find in Heavy Metal (the macho, strutting love-machine stuff)...it all goes back to the blues, and the audience is in on the game.

TomF
05-25-2006, 08:44 AM
Ish, I agree with you about Cohen ... he's the thinking man's depressive!

And JimD, my stock-in-trade listening is Bach and Brahms ... lightened with Puccini, and perhaps some Debussy, Schumann and Chopin. Mahler if I'm feeling really gloomy, and Wagner when I'm irritable.

But as Bruce says, Metal is really only amplified blues, with a healthy dose of adolescent rebellion standing in for life experience. Really, Buddy Guy could play any of the licks Angus (from AC/DC) does, and do them better ... but he'd look even more foolish in the schoolboy's uniform than Angus does now.

And for me, that's the issue. Rock, and it's sub-genres, started out as adolescent music - all about rebellion and overt young-person sexuality. How do you age gracefully, with that? Turn it back into blues-based music, and focus on the sound, rather than yourself! For me, Clapton's done that well, since his stuff was always more about the music than about himself ... Robert Plant's stuff also stands up really well.

But the "image-driven" rock .. well, it's performance art: it's about conjuring up icons, not really making music. Kiss did less than nothing for me when the lads were "young" ... and I have NO interest in seeing Gene Simmonds' tongue now that he's an old fart.

Bruce Taylor
05-25-2006, 09:20 AM
How do you age gracefully, with that? Turn it back into blues-based music,

Yeah. I find I can still stand some of the greasy kid stuff I listened to in the 70s...but only the music that's blues based. Pink Floyd has held up pretty well, 'cause Gilmour is basically a blues man. The self-important prog rockers who veered toward European musical traditions (Jethro Tull, Gentle Giant, Rush, Yes, etc.) are almost unlistenable, these days.

George.
05-25-2006, 09:31 AM
Jack, you are showing prejudice. Some heavy metal bands overdid it on the makeup and silly satanic allusions - a pander to the young teenage boys' market.

But much heavy metal had lyrics that were real poetry and music that was very sophisticated and innovative. I refer you to songs like "Stairway to Heaven" or "Crazy Train," whose lyrics Chad posted.

As one who very much enjoys Vivaldi, Puccini, and Rachmaninoff, I assure you that much heavy metal is worth listening to - don't let the make-up and exploding goats distract you from the quality of the music... :)

cs
05-25-2006, 09:37 AM
Metal does get a bad rap, but so be it. BTW the first set I posted was Crazy Train and the second set was Revelation Mother Earth. The lines get kinda blurred here. I think that both of those songs were orginally by Black Sabbath, but the more popular version is by Ozzy.

Chad

TomF
05-25-2006, 09:43 AM
...Pink Floyd has held up pretty well, 'cause Gilmour is basically a blues man. The self-important prog rockers who veered toward European musical traditions (Jethro Tull, Gentle Giant, Rush, Yes, etc.) are almost unlistenable, these days.Yeah, and Pink Floyd has the advantage of having some really interesting lyrics too. I'm with you about some of the prog rockers, though some Emerson Lake and Palmer and Supertramp can still catch my fancy. And while I won't listen to Jethro Tull anymore, Ian Anderson (flute player) has done some very interesting stuff with Traditional music ... though he's greatly offended the purists of the Irish Traditional world.

Quite a ways, though, between Ian Anderson and the Glam-Rock hair bands ... or Ozzy.

In a heroic attempt to counter thread drift ... Chad, an English prof friend is writing a book on Metal, which he also thinks is both underrated and misunderstood. While not too big on Death Metal or Thrash Metal, he's a big fan of much of the rest of it. Commented once that he's got such awful mixed feelings about Van Halen. On the one hand, Eddie is a wizard with the guitar ... on the other hand, there's not a one of the songs that he can stomach the lyrics of. He'll listen with the volume down 'till the guitar solos start ...:D

Like horror fiction and horror movies, Metal expresses the dreams and nightmares of popular culture ... and sometimes has some interesting commentary to make. Me? I've got to have the volume turned low enough that I can hear it.:D

cs
05-25-2006, 09:51 AM
I would like to read that.

I too have mixed feelings about Van Halen and Sammy Hagar. I liked them both apart, but together it don't work. Well I guess it worked for some because they made a ton of money.

Chad

BTW the only way I listen to metal is with it cranked.

George.
05-25-2006, 09:54 AM
"awful mixed feelings about Van Halen. On the one hand, Eddie is a wizard with the guitar ... on the other hand, there's not a one of the songs that he can stomach the lyrics of."

Running with the Devil.

BTW, I hear that Roger Waters has composed an opera, set during the French Revolution, and that it is getting good reviews from the critics - a classical opera, not a rock opera. Has anyone heard it?

pipefitter
05-25-2006, 10:59 AM
What's wrong with Kiss or the theatrics? Alot of people watch horror movies or movies in general which are totally unrealistic or non correct. It wasn't about musical correctness,it just sounded good. A social thing that was different. Alice cooper did it first with the makeup but still,Kiss rocked live and on record.It was entertainment at any rate.It is good at times to get away from normality and correctness as long as one has the sense to not live it beyond it's intentions.

Satriani is good,so is Vai and if you really want to go guitar mania try yngwie malmsteen. I had more fun listening to that stuff and hanging out with lots of friends. I remember when Boston came out with their first album and that sound that Tom Schultz created. Not heavy metal but rockin sounds.

I listen to things at work and the young guy there loves it. I was listening to malmsteen and he thought it was someone current and I told him it was from 1984 and he couldn't believe it.

Heavy metal or hard rock is like a true muscle car,not the supercharged 4 bangers of today which although fast,don't shake the ground like the old muscle did/does.

After not having time for it while rearing children and all of the other responsible correct things we have to do,it's still good to let it rip and leak a little adrenaline from time to time. It is entertaining at the very least but I can't imagine everyone being able to handle it or wanting to.

Seems I can agree with black sabbath being one of the pioneers of heavy metal and the groups spawned from them such as Ozzy,Rainbow? What about Whitesnake's "still of the night"? That still sounds good.

Tom M.
05-25-2006, 11:54 AM
I
But as Bruce says, Metal is really only amplified blues, with a healthy dose of adolescent rebellion standing in for life experience. Really, Buddy Guy could play any of the licks Angus (from AC/DC) does, and do them better ... but he'd look even more foolish in the schoolboy's uniform than Angus does now.



I beg to differ! Regular rock and roll is amplified blues mixed with adolescent rebellion. And there is a lot of metal that isn't based on the blues scale. Buddy Guy has been playing more and more like an adolescent, trying to impress the girls or something, for the last 10 years. Just listen, especially live. As far as Buddy Guy, or anyone else playing Angus' licks "better" than Angus, well, that's the point of view of someone who doesn't really know what they are talking about. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but it just isn't about being able to copy someone else. Once you get to a certain level musically, and to a certain level fluently on your instrument, copying someone else is easy. All good players can do it. So the focus changes from being able to play it to finding your own sound or voice. Angus can copy Buddy, and Buddy can copy Angus. But what value is that for themselves or the listener? A great example is Jimmie Vaughan; he can play anything, and copy anybody to a "T". (from what I've read from many sources) But when he plays his own stuff, he sounds like Jimmie and nobody else, AND in fact sounds kinda like he COULDN'T play anything else. But he's just true to his voice is all.

Someone mentioned Jimi Hendrix as blues based rock or something. Well, he sure could play the hell outta the blues, but the blues was only about half or less of what he recorded. Same goes for Led Zepplin.

When I think of Metal, I think of Ozzy, Metallica, Iron Maiden and Judas Priest. Power chords, sure, but so is rock and roll.

cs
05-25-2006, 12:55 PM
Just for balance I'm sitting here listining to Jasmine Trias from an earlier American Idol. If you go to her web site you can hear samples.

http://www.jasminetrias.net/

Chad

TomF
05-25-2006, 01:23 PM
Sorry to have touched a nerve, Tom M. Yeah, I've listened to a lot more Buddy Guy recently than AC/DC, Metallica, or Iron Maiden ... but the latter was once on my regular playlist. And yeah, as a musician (classical, blues, jazz, folk), I couldn't agree more about "finding your own voice," in whatever genre you play.

But Metal is blues based - it's a sub-genre of Rock ... which grew out of the Blues. Ozzie didn't create it out of nothing as a wholly new and unique form ... its a musical branch in a geneology leading back through Jazz ... and Gospel ... and Ragtime ... and ultimately, to African tribal drumming. For all that Slash and Eddie Van Halen introduced some elements of classical counterpoint into their riffs, Metal has much more to do with blues scales and harmonies than, say, with Bach or Gabrielli.

For a minute, set aside the obvious differences - the style of vocals, the instruments used, the distortion, even the lyric subjects - and just look at the basic musical structure. And you'll typically find Metal songs grounded in 3 chords (with variations/substitutions, especially in "B" sections between the main themes), 12 bar rhythmic structure in 4/4 time with a back-beat, and scales with flatted 3rds, 5ths, and 7ths.

The distinctiveness of Metal is in the vocal style, instrumentation, and lyric subjects ... and it isn't only "the blues," I'll agree. But it's blues based.

ishmael
05-25-2006, 01:50 PM
Hm, metal music has more complexities than I was aware of. Duh. I don't follow popular music at all.

When I think of metal I think of loud, screech, angry, adolescent, let's throw some devil worship in their faces. I don't put Pink Floyd there, nor some of the other bands mentioned. But, what do I know? About this, not much.

Tom M.
05-25-2006, 01:58 PM
Sorry to have touched a nerve, Tom M.


No reason to be sorry, it didn't HURT :)


But Metal is blues based - it's a sub-genre of Rock ... which grew out of the Blues. Ozzie didn't create it out of nothing as a wholly new and unique form ... its a musical branch in a geneology leading back through Jazz ... and Gospel ... and Ragtime ... and ultimately, to African tribal drumming. For all that Slash and Eddie Van Halen introduced some elements of classical counterpoint into their riffs, Metal has much more to do with blues scales and harmonies than, say, with Bach or Gabrielli.

I never meant to imply Metal wasn't part of an evolutionary process. And I'll concede that most Metal, particularly those bands like Metallica, Iron Maiden, Ozzy and particulary Sabbath are mostly blues based. But plenty isn't, and I guess I get up in arms when music is classified in such broad strokes.




The distinctiveness of Metal is in the vocal style, instrumentation, and lyric subjects

I agree. And I'll add that those qualities of distictiveness you listed are present whether they are playing blues or not.

JimD
05-25-2006, 02:03 PM
Fine critical thinking going on here, gentlemen. But metal is still essentially raging adolencent hormonal noise. Mine subsided decades ago.

Bruce Taylor
05-25-2006, 02:06 PM
I don't put Pink Floyd there, nor some of the other bands mentioned.

I don't think anyone would. I just brought 'em up as an example of "music I liked when I was a kid that still sounds pretty good." The stuff I can still stand is mostly the bluesier material.

There's a lot of cross-over between genres. Follow Ronnie James Dio, from honky-tonk Elf, through Blackmore's Rainbow, to his stint with Sabbath, and finally his horn-flashing solo career. He's pretty closely associated with Metal, but he comes right out of barroom rock and roll.

TomF
05-25-2006, 02:08 PM
Fair enough - I guess I was speaking more of my prejudices than I knew. Frankly, I never much liked the metal that wasn't really hopped-up 12 bar blues variants. It just lost me; stuff like Rob Zombie still does.

Shifting genres radically, in a different way Hip Hop also lost me. Though if anything, by losing melody completely and making the rhythmic stuff much more complex, hip hop has moved back closer on the evolutionary scale to African tribal drumming.

Leon m
05-25-2006, 02:19 PM
In my opinion the term Heavy Metal really came into play with Metallica, but for general purposes I think all the bands listed above could and should be classified as Heavy Metal.



Chad



I've always had a hard time putting Led Zeppelin in the heavy metal catagory. I just consider them DAMN GOOD rock. So,even though I consider them the best band on your list, I had to vote for AC/DC as best metal.

cs
05-25-2006, 07:12 PM
A little tired after my run, so I sat down to watch some TV. Nothing on, so I scanned the channels. On VH-1 is "Heavy-The Story of Metal."

Chad

Memphis Mike
05-25-2006, 07:24 PM
Most folks don't understand the blues roots of R&R. I didn't until I took up the guitar.

Most Rock is grounded in blues riffs and chord progressions.

Tom F. is right on.

Karl A. Hilbert
05-25-2006, 07:39 PM
I had to vote for Black Sabbath, despite the fact that I think Led Zepplin is a better band, because the poll question said "metal".

Leon m
05-25-2006, 07:48 PM
I had to vote for Black Sabbath, despite the fact that I think Led Zepplin is a better band, because the poll question said "metal".

Ah HUH ! ya see that John B...Who's the coolest ?

cs
05-25-2006, 07:51 PM
Just to let you guys know, I'm not the only one that groups Zep in with metal. VH-1 does also.

Chad

Leon m
05-25-2006, 07:56 PM
Well,if you wan't to get technical...I remember the cover of a Cream Magazine (from way back) that had Robert Plant sitting in a dragster that said "Heavy Metal" on it...but I still can't put them in that catagory, it just goes against the laws of nature.

Karl A. Hilbert
05-25-2006, 07:59 PM
Didn't Jethro Tull win Heavy Metal Band of the the Year a while back with their Crest of a Knave or Rock Island album. I saw them last year have to agree with TomF. that the flute virtuosity is the only thing that keeps me listening.

Karl A. Hilbert
05-25-2006, 08:02 PM
Leon, have you heard the Widespread Panic tune "Second Skin". I think it sounds like LZ.

Leon m
05-25-2006, 08:08 PM
Leon, have you heard the Widespread Panic tune "Second Skin". I think it sounds like LZ.

Nope, not yet.

cs
05-26-2006, 06:16 AM
New reality series on VH-1, Super Groups. 5 older metal giants will be living together in a gaudy Las Vegas mansion and they have 12 days to put together a hit song and be ready for a concert.

Members:
Lead singer and former front man for Skid Row, Sebastian Bach.
http://www.vh1.com/sitewide/promoimages/shows/s/supergroup/band/sebastian_bach/111x71.jpg

Drummer and son of famous Zep Drummer and known as "Kid", Jason Bonham.
http://www.vh1.com/sitewide/promoimages/shows/s/supergroup/band/jason_bonham/111x71.jpg

Rhythm guitar from Anthrax Scott "Not" Ian.
http://www.vh1.com/sitewide/promoimages/shows/s/supergroup/band/scott_ian/111x71.jpg

Bass player and adult film star, one of the first to incoparate hip hop into metal, Evan Seinfeld.
http://www.vh1.com/sitewide/promoimages/shows/s/supergroup/band/evan_seinfeld/111x71.jpg

Last but not least:
Lead Guitar, one of the most controvetrial musicians of our time and not for his on stage antics, but for his political views, the motor city madman himself Ted Nuggent.
http://www.vh1.com/sitewide/promoimages/shows/s/supergroup/band/ted_nugent/111x71.jpg

Chad

mmd
05-26-2006, 07:09 AM
First it was Ozzy and family showing their dirty laundry and colourful vocabulary on national television, then Gene Simmons trying to turn a group of "propah" British schoolchildren into a rock band, now this. I guess this general lack of sense in aging rockers is one of the symptoms of long-term exposure to over-indulgence of recreational chemicals and violently loud music...

(I guess this kinda clarifies my viepoint on reality TV shows, doesn't it?)

cs
05-26-2006, 07:19 AM
I take it you won't be watching it than?;)

In defense of Ted, he don't do drugs and he don't drink, he is just crazy.

It was kinda funny though watching the clash of egos, and there are some big egos listed above.

Chad

mmd
05-26-2006, 07:25 AM
Probably not, Chad. I find little entertainment in watching other people behave badly. To each his own pleasures, though.

cs
05-26-2006, 07:27 AM
I would have never seen this if it hadn't been re-runs on regular TV. I always like to watch a little TV in that last hour before going to bed. You know when it is too dark to work on the boat and you are to tired to read.

And besides that run earlier had zapped all my energy and I was recuperating.

Chad

cs
05-26-2006, 07:35 AM
Hey I just noticted that The Cult got a vote.

Chad

S/V Laura Ellen
05-26-2006, 07:49 AM
Hey I just noticted that The Cult got a vote.

Chad

Check to see who voted for the Cult.

cs
05-26-2006, 09:39 AM
Last night the kid saw Dee Snyder on TV and called him a girly man for the way he looked. Of course I called her a square. But when "We're Not Gonna Take It" came on, she started singing with it.

Chad

John Meachen
05-26-2006, 03:10 PM
In the spirit of the earlier post from Wales,I offer the Black Dyke Mills band as one of the purest metal bands in the business.I doubt they would choose the name if they were starting out now.