View Full Version : Argumentative?
Found out this weekend that I'm argumentative. Or at least according to the LT's in my battery.
Examples:
2lt: Top you need to have A-6 at the bleachers at 0700 for maintance.
Top: Up there at the intersection?
2lt: Up there where the bleachers are.
Top: Up there at the intersection where you were directing traffic?
Section Chief: At the hot line.
Top: Right. Up there at the intersection.
2LT: No up there at the bleachers.
Top: Okay, A-6 at the intersection at 0700.
2LT: No Top at the bleachers.
Top: Right, the bleachers up at the intersection.
2LT: No the bleachers.
Top: Right, the bleachers up there at the intersection.
Section Cheif: No the hot line.
Top: You need A-6 up at the intersection where the bleachers are and where you were directing traffic at the hot line.
2LT: Top, why do you have to argue?
ps: The bleachers were at the intersection and this was also the point where once you go past your gun is hot.
Just thought I was trying to clarify, but I guess I was arguing.:rolleyes:
#2
BC: Top we will line up vehicles behind A-5 for the move back. (A-5 lined up in the corner of a narrow road with no where to park the trucks)
Top: Sir why don't we move A-5 up to the landing strip where we will be leaving from and we have lots of room to line up the traffic.
BC: No lets just line up here.
Top: Sir, up at the landing strip we have plenty of room to line them up and do our safety briefing. This is also where we will be leaving from.
BC: Just tell the guys to line up behind A-5.
Top: Sir I need to give the guys a definite place to line up.
BC: Just tell them to line up behind A-5 where ever it is parked.
Top: Sir I would like to give the guys a definite place.
BC: Top we can line up here (the trucks would have been parked in the mud and or bushes).
Top: I really think that we need to line them up at the landing strip.
BC: Top why do you have to argue with me?
5 minutes later.
BC: Top have the vehicles line up at the landing strip behind A-5
Chad
John Bell
05-22-2006, 07:06 AM
"Sir! Yes, sir!":D
Mrleft8
05-22-2006, 07:37 AM
It's not arguing. It's an attempt to convey your opinion to someone who is unwilling to listen. It may be a little like trying to beat down a brick wall with your forehead, but as long as you have a valid point....
huisjen
05-22-2006, 07:54 AM
From now on, when someone asks in a poll, "Am I ...", I'm just voting yes. That doesn't mean I don't like or respect the person. It doesn't mean they don't have a legitimate reason for doing what they do. It just means that I assume they're looking for some sort of confirmation and I might as well give it to them.
Dan
Mrleft8
05-22-2006, 07:59 AM
It just means that I assume they're looking for some sort of confirmation and I might as well give it to them.
Dan No you don't. :D
Jack has a point. My job is the welfare of the men. Up until this drill I didn't have Plt leaders and I had to do there job as well as providing for the welfare of the men. Didn't even have Plt Sgts. I had acting Plt Sgts but they were actually section chiefs.
But Lefty hit what I was doing. I was trying to make my point and it feels like beating your head agaisn't a brick wall. I'm a little pigheaded and so is my BC.
Another example:
I was given a location for an AAR (After Action Review). So I did a map recon and found the way to go. Actually pretty simple, go out to the hard ball and make a right. Make another right at the "T" and than make another left at the next road and the AAR was at this big lake on the right.
So I do a map recon, talk to the NCOIC of the AAR and I also put in the tent as a waypoint on the GPS so we can find our way back in the dark.
So I brief the BC on which way we need to go. He says why don't we go this other way. I tell him that way goes through the ammonition holding area (AHA) and is on dirt roads and not hard ball. He argues with me and questions my judgement (even though I've spent a lot of time at Fort Campbell and he had only been there once before).
I win that argument, but the BC still drives while looking at his map and not trusting my directions. As we drive by the AHA you can see it from the road and they have that road blocked with a truck while they are loading ammo. Another LT says "Good call Top." But still the BC has his map out and is trying to read it while driveing and not trusting my directions.
BTW I got accused of argueing on that also.
Chad
I have a difference of opinion with my boss. Crops its ugly head up every now and then. What I try to remember is, his perception is reality.
It doesn't matter what I thought or said, what matters is what he thinks I thought or said.
Does that make any since?
Jack
Understand that completly, reality is perception.
Come on guys be honest and vote. Need your input.
Chad
geeman
05-22-2006, 10:26 AM
YA,, my dealings with management usually run along that line also.Facts are irelevent its the boss's "perception" of facts that matter.
John of Phoenix
05-22-2006, 10:43 AM
A 2LT arguing with a 1SGT. I've heard it all now. :eek:
What do they teach these kids in OCS these days? :confused:
And a Battalion Commander ought to know better.
You disagreed with them, therefore you're argumentative. Yup.
That they were confused or confusing or both and you were correct has nothing to do with it.
The 2LT, well, he's a 2LT.
Clarification, BC in my world is Battery Commander. Normally a Cpt. but in this case a 1LT.
Chad
Memphis Mike
05-22-2006, 11:04 AM
I voted yes. You're the nastiest most arguementative sob I've ever met.:D
geeman
05-22-2006, 11:14 AM
I have to vote No here.I've never found CS to be in the least bit argumentitive.Seems to me like he's just a nice guy.How bad can he be coming from Tenn. anyway?
John of Phoenix
05-22-2006, 11:24 AM
A 1LT as a Battery Commander? When I was flying artillery around (Cobras) that would have been a MAJ with a LTC as Battalion CO.
I never saw an officer of any rank try to talk a 1SGT into or out of anything. It just wasn't done. If Top said a job should be done a certain way, you left him to do it and you knew it would get done.
Times have changed.
In a normal situation yes the Battilion Commander is a LTC and his XO is a Maj. Battery Commanders are Cpt w/ his XO being a 1LT.
This is not a normal situation. Most of our Cpts and a lot of our E-7 & E-8's got sent off on a mission that so far has lasted over a year. Quite a few of our younger officers have had to step up. I was the only E-7 that had to step up as 1SG and I was also the lowest ranking E-7 in the battalion.
Chad
Leon m
05-22-2006, 12:14 PM
Orders Is orders BOY...Yer outa line! ... But since your a first shirt you can get away with it. Ya gotta teach them green horns somehow. I vote No.
BrianW
05-22-2006, 12:41 PM
Don't ever back down. Someday you'll be retired and you'll want to remember that you did your best, that does not include cowering to rank.
If the bullets are flying, and an officer with more information than you gives an order, that's the time to follow without question.
I've sat back and taken a hard look at myself and I've come to some conclussions. One I'm hard headed and stubburn as a mule. Two I can be argumantive. Three I sometimes forget that I'm not the chain of command, but rather a part of the NCO support system.
This is part of the problem. Back when I took over I was the chain of command but now that I have Plt leaders, they are the chain of command. Like stated above I'm beans and bullets. Gotta keep that in mind.
Kinda strange, when you reach your goals you realize that you have stepped out of the action and become something else.
As Top I need to concentrate on training and troop welfare. I need to give the young leuys the chance to learn and lead and offer advice.
Thanks you guys really do help.
Chad
Mission first men always
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