Painting the deck...

[KNOCKABOUT]

Am about ready to get around to refinishing the deck (after the bilge, topsides, rails, transom, well you get the idea), and had thought of using the same topside enamel paint as the hull, only with a silica filler for grip. My sense is that recanvassing does not offer any real benefit over the silica approach as ultimately the silica is easier to maintain, and would I imagine, provide substantially better grip in weather. So my question is, should I use the enamel (enamel has that infuriating tendency to crack and craze), or some other type of paint? Also, whats the best paint for a (67 year old) cedar bilge?

KNOCKABOUT

[Lew Barrett]

You can use a good latex in the bilge without shame.
Lew

[pcford]

My sense is that recanvassing does not offer any real benefit over the silica approach as ultimately the silica is easier to maintain, and would I imagine, provide substantially better grip in weather.

KNOCKABOUT

Maybe I don't understand. Canvas is for watertightness. You can put some kind of non-skid on top of it.

[Jay Greer]

The trick of keeping canvas decks from getting paint sick is to use oil based semi gloss house paint that has been thinned with turpentine.
This paint is designed to oxidise and sluff off when scrubbed.

If your decks are are paint sick now, try using paint remover and a wooden spatula to get it off. A scrub brush and water blast work if the paint is stubborn. Silica is an added nuisance and not needed if the job is done right.
JG

[Bill Thompson]

Lew,
I saw your other recent post about your engine installation and I seem to recall that your bilges looked great. I was wondering if you would consider answering a several questions?
1. Were the bilges painted previously?
2. If the bilges were not painted before, why did you decide to paint them now?
3. If the bilges were not painted ppreviously, how did you prep the surfaces prior to painting? Especially those bilges area below the engines? (My 1968 Volvo diesel repower installation did not include a drip pan and its not real clear how one be installed now - the planks, frames are not oil soaked but there has been oil spills over the past 60 years.)

My '46 Monk (34 foot bridge deck with the motor installed below the bridge deck) has unpainted bilges, frames, bearers,etc. I have considered painting the areas that are accessible - probably only about 30 percent of the interior of the hull without starting to remove furniture, tankage, etc. However, the hull areas around the engine are accessible and could be painted.

Thanks.
Bill

PS: Do you by any chance belong to CYA and have plans to have your boat at the Bell Harbor event in June??

[KNOCKABOUT]

"Maybe I don't understand. Canvas is for watertightness. You can put some kind of non-skid on top of it."

Neglected to mention the deck was Wested some time ago, and the only portion that still retains its canvas is the portion behind the desk. So watertightness is not an issue. I would like to add the silica for grip only and wondered if the enamel was a good choice. Using the topside enamel greaty simplifies my paint scheme... provided I wont incur the wrath of "death by maintenance" if by next year I am experiencing cracking. I believe the present cracking in the surface to be due to the former owner leaving her on a mooring with the shrouds tight, as the cracks fall on the stress lines from the mast to the chainplates. as well as back by the helm, where he apparantely sat his big fat keester.

[KNOCKABOUT]

Maybe I don't understand. Canvas is for watertightness. You can put some kind of non-skid on top of it.
"Maybe I don't understand. Canvas is for watertightness. You can put some kind of non-skid on top of it."

I neglected to mention the deck had been Wested some time ago so watertightness is not an issue. The silica is to be used merely as aggragate for grip on the deck. The only portion of the deck that retains its original canvas is behind the desk. My idea was to use the topside enamel to greatly simplify maintenance, but am unsure of this approach. The evident cracking is along the stress line from mast to chainplates, and I believe occured as a result of the shrouds left tight on a summer mooring, as well as the cracking at the helm where the previous owner would sit his big fat keester.

[KNOCKABOUT]

"Maybe I don't understand. Canvas is for watertightness. You can put some kind of non-skid on top of it."

I neglected to mention the deck had been Wested some time ago so watertightness is not an issue. The silica is to be used merely as aggragate for grip on the deck. The only portion of the deck that retains its original canvas is behind the desk. My idea was to use the topside enamel to greatly simplify maintenance, but am unsure of this approach. The evident cracking is along the stress line from mast to chainplates, and I believe occured as a result of the shrouds left tight on a summer mooring, as well as the cracking at the helm where the previous owner would sit his big fat keester.
sorry about that... didnt refresh; so now you have it twice, in different wording. You can decide which better conforms to MLA.

[KNOCKABOUT]

You can use a good latex in the bilge without shame.
Lew
Thanks Lew, will do.

[Lew Barrett]

Bill,
I used an industrial grade latex; I forget the brand, but any good quality latex paint should do. The Coast Guard painted the bilges (more like locker interiors and easy places to reach) a silvery/gray in a number of areas (she was comandeered in WWII) but never the ER, so it was bare. While replacing the motors, we did extensive bottom work. I prepped the hole while it was open (garboards and first broads removed), just Dawn dish soap and water, but the new garboards and first broads were coated in red lead by the shipwrights; those remain as installed but aren't much visible beneath the machinery. I'd think it important to be careful when using certain solvents in there to de-grease; cotton caulking and all. The dish soap did fine. Having washed the walls and everything else I could reach, I went down with a brush and had at it. Couldn't have been easier in that respect; I didn't prep as I would for fine finishing, just made it all clean and free of dirt and any obvious problems. The latex isn't fussy and clings/covered well. It was "richly" applied as required to cover and fill. There wasn't any oil soaked wood so there was no real pain that way. I think if you decide to take my approach, you'll be pleasantly surprised how well the latex binds to the wood. It's the only place I'd think to use latex on the boat, but it worked well there. All my shipwright buddies (Charlie Life, Tim Regan and Dennis) pointed me in this direction; it wasn't obvious to me, though it should have been. So simple.
I painted the room for a number of reasons: In no order: I wanted to pack any holes in the frames (badly done fasteners, checks, prior owners' odd nails, etc) with paint; mostly for cosmetic reasons. I wanted to see any leaks coming from above (through the decks...no longer an issue as they have been recauked and re-paid). The painted surfaces make any problems more visible (you see the rivulets), as the bare wood doesn't just suck up the water. You can't fix a problem you don't see. Monks I've seen frequently have problems at the turn of the shear; just where my ER is. Also, over the years the boat had received planks at different times and I wanted to unify the look, hide butt blocks etc. A clean ER is a great asset; the smooth painted surfaces are also easier to keep clean and vacuumed. Also, nicer to work in. If I did it again, I might even use a lighter color for better light reflectivity; as it is though, I'm very happy. The rest of the boat is yacht style finish but the ER was done to be "work" style; nothing too fancy, just clean and tidy.
I highly recommend painting what you can down there. For areas that were hard to access, I taped a brush handle to a short broom stick to extend my reach. I tried not to paint too close to hoses, wire looms and so on, but was reasonably successful in getting good complete cover without making too much of a mess, I think.
Regarding drip pans; I guess they just didn't think too much about them back then. Why later re-powering folks didn't install them is a mystery; such an easy solution to a vexing problem. My new motors of course don't leak, but someday they probably will. It's nice to think the next guy won't be chasing the gunk all over the boat. I don't know any simple solution to that problem; fitting pans after-the-fact. We've all talked about it of course, but nothing I've ever heard rang my bell.
Please post pics of your boat. And, don't be afraid to paint the interiors. You'll be surprised how happy you'll be when done.
Lew


Lew,
I saw your other recent post about your engine installation and I seem to recall that your bilges looked great. I was wondering if you would consider answering a several questions?
1. Were the bilges painted previously?
2. If the bilges were not painted before, why did you decide to paint them now?
3. If the bilges were not painted ppreviously, how did you prep the surfaces prior to painting? Especially those bilges area below the engines? (My 1968 Volvo diesel repower installation did not include a drip pan and its not real clear how one be installed now - the planks, frames are not oil soaked but there has been oil spills over the past 60 years.)

My '46 Monk (34 foot bridge deck with the motor installed below the bridge deck) has unpainted bilges, frames, bearers,etc. I have considered painting the areas that are accessible - probably only about 30 percent of the interior of the hull without starting to remove furniture, tankage, etc. However, the hull areas around the engine are accessible and could be painted.

Thanks.
Bill

PS: Do you by any chance belong to CYA and have plans to have your boat at the Bell Harbor event in June??

[Bill Thompson]

Knockabout, I didn't mean to hijack the thread. Sorry.

Lew, I've post some pics shortly - they'll be 'before' pictures, hopefully. You, Elcoholic and many others who have worked and paid on their restoration projects for years keep me going.
Thanks.
Bill

[Lew Barrett]

Oh yeah, CYA. A member, and will be there. Please come by and introduce yourself; welcome aboard Rita too.
Lew


Knockabout, I didn't mean to hijack the thread. Sorry.

Lew, I've post some pics shortly - they'll be 'before' pictures, hopefully. You, Elcoholic and many others who have worked and paid on their restoration projects for years keep me going.
Thanks.
Bill

[Carlsboats]

On decks I would use semi-gloss alkyd paint with some no-skid powder mixed in, for traction. It lasts well --we get two-three
seasons on a deck that is one layer of fiberglass over pluwood-- and is easily cleaned and/or touched up if damaged by dropped
anchors, etc. Full gloss -- NO. Who wants to look at a glaring, shiny deck and cabin house? And silica based additives -- NO. That stuff
is sharp as glass, and removes skin readily. The commercial nonskid powders -- Interlux makes the one we use -- won't do a dermabrasion if you slip and fall.

[KNOCKABOUT]

Carlsboats,

Thanks, when reading your post I see the practical sensibility in your common sense approach. I think your approach will work well for me, and I'll post some pics in the following weeks of my progress. Thanks all.

[Dan McCosh]

I'd second the Interlux non-skid approach. Aside from the texture, it also is about the same density as the paint, and stays mixed while you apply. Sand-type materials settle out quickly.

[KNOCKABOUT]

thanks all. And while I have your attention... am having some trouble with the mooring cover snaps that were screwed into the desk, notably that I cant find a compound to shmeer in there so that I might screw'em all back into their respective holes (and actually stay). Any ideas? Im considering throwing the mooring cover onto the yard sale heap, as I'm not all that excited with having rivets in the desk. I dont know alot about mooring covers, but I think I could probably get one with some form of strap rather than invasive snaps.

[Tiggersdaman]

Lew mentioned the paint went on great on the bilge of his Monk, but what about a bilge that has 60 years of oil in it? Any ideas on what paint could be used then?

I've been told to use CPES as a primer....but I want water in my bilge to keep my wood swelled, and CPES is supposed to displace water!!


Tiggersdaman
--Are you using your boat, or is your boat using you??--

[Lew Barrett]

Tiggersdamen,
You'll want to clean the old wood thoroughly; a good washing/degreasing is in order. I suppose you could start with Dawn or Simple Green, do some test patches after everything dries and see how it all goes. There are considerably more powerful degreasers than dish soap of course; you will want to do research about anything that might harm cotton for peace of mind.
In the first iteration of my painted bilges (before re-powering) I degreased both the motors and surrounding wood with a de-greaser available through Chevron (got it at Kovich-Williams in Seattle), sucked all the muck out with a vac, flushed it carefully, came back a few days later and painted down to the scum line. (I also painted the engines in that round; not the new ones of course as they came with nice paint:D )
I didn't paint the "interiors" of the garboards at that point, as I thought the effort would be futile, they were always wet anyway. I don't know what to say about any wood that is truly and completely oil soaked, as would be the case in planks laying under a leaky motor, say between the motor mounts and stringers; but can you paint there anyway? Just keep cleaning what you can reach as well and as thoroughly as possible.
When I repowered, it was considerably easier to accomplish what was to be the "second" painting of the room. While the hole was empty, everything under the motors got slathered in red lead. But that was new wood that was dry and would easily take paint. You don't really see the red lead painted sections even if standing in the room. What you can see that is above the "slosh line" was painted with latex. There wasn't much oily stuff to deal with there in any case, either the first time I approached this task, nor the second some years later. Mostly, what I think you'll find is years of grime. The very lowest planks in my boat, and those below the motors, weren't really accessible for paint until the motors came out in any case; I'd expect your situation to be the same. The only way I was really able to do the whole job was once we decided to repower. Prior to that, I painted what i could reach, calling it good. I expect with some grease of the elbow kind, you'll make out fine.
Lew