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skuthorp
05-15-2006, 10:15 PM
Is this right? Is shrub sending the National Guard to the mexican border? What are they going to do - Shoot them? Has he admitted they've lost control?
Talk about stable doors!
Heard it on our local news

Peter Malcolm Jardine
05-15-2006, 10:38 PM
Yep, 6000 of them apparently, and some on the Canadian border too I guess. I recommend a ten foot high concrete wall with barbed wire on top. ....talk about police state paranoia...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

George Jung
05-15-2006, 10:52 PM
Sorry to let the wind out of your bags, but apparently the NG are being sent to offer 'logistical' support.... road repairs, 'change yer tires, lady', etc. They won't be shooting anyone, at least not illegals..... NPR reported on it, something of a farce, the way it's been presented and duties actually intended. Politicking...

geeman
05-15-2006, 11:31 PM
I still say,,Shrub should have told Prez Fox that we'll just set up our border the same way the southern mexican border is set up.

George Jung
05-15-2006, 11:38 PM
You've alluded to that before; just how is it set up? Armed guards? Moat? What?

geeman
05-16-2006, 12:03 AM
My understanding is,Mexican law is much stricter then US law.I read the other day that corrupt mexican border guards demand money and jewelry from illegals crossing into Mexico from further south. If they have no money or valuables they are locked up,or simply shot.BTW ,,I didnt really mean shoot people.

JimD
05-16-2006, 05:02 AM
I read W says he'd consider NG along the Canuck border, too. I didn't think a lot of Mexicans were trying to sneak in to the US across the Canadian border.

ingo
05-16-2006, 06:12 AM
Oh, we have some experience with border walls. I would suggest this Berlin-proofed design:
http://www.berlinermauer.de/images/mauer-skizze-large.gif

LeeG
05-16-2006, 06:34 AM
send in the troops,,,a brilliant solution. Next time gas spikes up to $4/gal we can send in the troops, when hurricanes hit Houston we'll send in the troops, he's no longer the war prezdent, he's the troops prezdent.
So how many mexican laborers have moved to New Orleans for reconstruction jobs?

Tristan
05-16-2006, 06:37 AM
Very simple solution, simply apply existing laws prohibiting the hiring undocumented people. Arrest and imprision those who hire them. Voila, no more jobs, no more hords of undocumented people in the US. Isn't it amazing that Shrub, out of the clear blue, decided to start making this token move to close down the borders (send in the National Guard to change the tires of the few Border Patrol vehicles should they get a flat). Like it just occurred to him that unlimited immigration might just be a national security problem? And still he can't bring himself to suggest enforcement of the single set of laws that would solve the problem?

cs
05-16-2006, 06:40 AM
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me

Emma Lazarus, "The New Colossus," 1883.

Tristan
05-16-2006, 07:51 AM
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me

Emma Lazarus, "The New Colossus," 1883.

Let me pay for all their social services and health care as they are exploited by big business. Let me also pay for their children's social services, education, and health care as their children, by birthright, are automatically granted citizenship. As I am taxed for all these services, let me rejoice in paying a few cents less for various food items, lawn care, and housing, for Big Business is the power and the glory forever and ever, Amen

sv Lorelei
05-16-2006, 09:25 AM
How long you figure before we have "War on Illegal Immigration"?

What do you think the chances are that Bush can succeed in delivering Texas back to the United States. I wonder who's going to get to play the role of the insurgents.

We're not only on a slippery slope here. We have roller skates on and a jet pack strapped to our backs.

Cuyahoga Chuck
05-16-2006, 09:27 AM
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me "

This is a poem by Emma Lazarus. it is a sentimental piece of literary impracticality. It has never been nor is it now a policy of the United States government.
In 1924, when the political sentiments of Americans were as right-wing as they have ever been, immigration was SEVERLY limited and stayed that way till after WWII.
It was, in some ways, a fortunate policy. Within 6 years the Great Depression put 1/3rd of all Americans out of work and the last thing the US needed was to import more people to compete for the little work that was available.
The United States is not the Welfare Office of the World. We foster immigration because we are a nation with a low birth rate and need immigrants to maintain an adequate work force. But, as we have seen the modern world demands we have a highly skilled work force. The day when we took in millions of half-literate peasants is long past.

Charlie

geeman
05-16-2006, 09:27 AM
Texas and California already belong to Mexico
They said so at those rallies during some of the speeches that the media chose NOT to AIR.We cant depend on history to tell us what to do here ,its not relevent to present times and problems.

geeman
05-16-2006, 09:52 AM
I hate that our country has been put in this position,I hate that our values that we've always counted to be able to guide us cant be trusted in present times ,but the issue is so important,to us the next few years,,to our kids the years after that,,that we have to get it right,we can wait no longer to make a decision,on whats best for postarity.I think we're attempting to play "catch up " here,We HAVE to GET IT RIGHT.It appears to me finally,that what ever we do ,,somebody is going to be hurt.I guess our course here is to make decisions on whats best for the greatest number of people.Theres no middle ground here.

Dan McCosh
05-16-2006, 09:54 AM
I read W says he'd consider NG along the Canuck border, too. I didn't think a lot of Mexicans were trying to sneak in to the US across the Canadian border.

A substantial number of Chinese do. Mexicans used to be about 60% of illegals--recently jumped to about 80%. Still a lot of other nationalities.

geeman
05-16-2006, 09:57 AM
Shrub is afraid that the overly friendly canuks will invade us too lol.

skuthorp
05-16-2006, 04:14 PM
"Texas and California already belong to Mexico"

They did once, didn't they and a couple of other states besides. If I recall my history California was already colonised by Spanish speakers when 'Americans' arrived ocerland and tossed them off the land, and weren't there a couple of wars over Texas and the others?

Meerkat
05-16-2006, 05:18 PM
Didn't we hash this over in the "NG on the Border" thread? :confused:

geeman
05-16-2006, 11:44 PM
Yes we did,,and we went over the fact that the native Americans were here before that,,and on and on,,

geeman
05-17-2006, 12:03 AM
My point here was,that the media didnt feel it "news worthy" to report what was being said in some of the speeches at those rallies.If it had had wide publicity,I think the American people would have "had a cow" or 2.

LeeG
05-17-2006, 06:12 AM
I predict some apologist for the adminstration will link Mexican immigration to Al Qaeda.

Milo Christensen
05-17-2006, 06:33 AM
I predict some apologist for the adminstration will link Mexican immigration to Al Qaeda.

Gee,, Lee,, you got over WMD. It was a very slow and painful healing process,, but I'm glad to see you've moved on.

LeeG
05-17-2006, 06:45 AM
have I pushed a button?

LeeG
05-17-2006, 06:50 AM
flip flop

http://public.cq.com/public/20060515_homeland_15nationalguard.html


In December of 2005, Fox News talking head Bill O’Reilly floated an unlikely — even brash — idea to the Homeland Security secretary to seal off the porous southwest border.

“Why don’t you put the National Guard on the border to back up the border patrol and stop the bleeding, and then start to increase the Border Patrol, the high-tech and all of that?” O’Reilly asked.

Michael Chertoff, in those relatively calmer days before mass pro-immigration rallies, heated immigration reform politics in the Senate and cellar-dwelling opinion polls for President Bush, dismissed the idea out of hand.

“Well, the National Guard is really, first of all, not trained for that mission,” Chertoff told O’Reilly. “I mean, the fact of the matter is the border is a special place. There are special challenges that are faced there.”

Chertoff added that that it would take a huge amount of National Guard troops, that they would need new training. But couldn’t the National Guard pull it off, O’Reilly asked?

“I think it would be a horribly over-expensive and very difficult way to manage this problem,” Chertoff said. “Unless you would be prepared to leave those people in the National Guard day and night for month after month after month, you would eventually have to come to grips with the challenge in a more comprehensive way.”

Larry P.
05-17-2006, 06:54 AM
Oh, we have some experience with border walls. I would suggest this Berlin-proofed design:


Ingo it really puzzles me when people use the analogy, your wall was to keep people in, the one proposed here is to keep people out.

geeman
05-17-2006, 07:27 AM
Milo ,,I dont believe you ever read a post by me about WMD.The closest to such a post by me was when I made the statement that ""anyone that didnt think we'd be at war in Iraq when Shrub was elected wasnt paying attention" or something close to that statement.BTW,I didnt vote for the Shrub.

ingo
05-17-2006, 08:14 AM
Ingo it really puzzles me when people use the analogy, your wall was to keep people in, the one proposed here is to keep people out.

You are right that the analogy is limited. But in fact the wall was officially built to keep the "imperialistic aggressors" out of the GDR!

And "in" and "out" are very relative. Or to say it in a joke:

An engineer, a physicist, and a mathematician are shown a pasture with
a herd of sheep, and told to put them inside the smallest possible
amount of fence. The engineer is first. He herds the sheep into a
circle and then puts the fence around them, declaring, "A circle will
use the least fence for a given area, so this is the best solution."
The physicist is next. She creates a circular fence of infinite radius
around the sheep, and then draws the fence tight around the herd,
declaring, "This will give the smallest circular fence around the
herd." The mathematician is last. After giving the problem a little
thought, he puts a small fence around himself and then declares, "I
define myself to be on the outside!"

Gary E
05-17-2006, 08:39 AM
Mexico Threatens Suits Over Guard Patrols

May 16 5:03 PM US/Eastern

By MARINA MONTEMAYOR
Associated Press Writer


CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico


Mexico said Tuesday that it would file lawsuits in U.S. courts if National Guard troops on the border become directly involved in detaining migrants.....

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/05/16/D8HL3SN80.html (http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/05/16/D8HL3SN80.html)

Just how can Mexico use the US courts to do this??
Tell Fox to KMA

geeman
05-17-2006, 08:44 AM
Anyone can sue just about anybody for just about anything,,COLLECTING could be a problem for them tho I would think lol

Nicholas Carey
05-17-2006, 01:39 PM
Oh, we have some experience with border walls. I would suggest this Berlin-proofed design...Hmmm...that one did prove to be pretty effective. We could probably dispense with the tank traps, though :D

And the land mines might come across as a bit...unfriendly.