PDA

View Full Version : NG on the Border



Meerkat
05-13-2006, 08:02 PM
Shrub wants to use the NG to guard the US/Mexican border. Is this a violation of Posse' Comitatus (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&hs=Gqj&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Posse%27+Comitatus&spell=1) ? Have we missed a signing statement somewhere? :rolleyes:

Rancocas
05-13-2006, 08:23 PM
Posse Comitatus? No way!
We are under a full scale invasion. The number one function of our federal government is national defense.
The regular army should be out there - with machine gun emplacements about every 300 yards and minefields in between them.

RichKrough
05-13-2006, 09:14 PM
Shrub wants to use the NG to guard the US/Mexican border. Is this a violation of Posse' Comitatus (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&hs=Gqj&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Posse%27+Comitatus&spell=1) ? Have we missed a signing statement somewhere? :rolleyes:

Considering the President's previous performances in military manners. I hope he doesn't burn down the house trying to get rid of the mice.

Phillip Allen
05-13-2006, 09:27 PM
Shrub wants to use the NG to guard the US/Mexican border. Is this a violation of Posse' Comitatus (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&hs=Gqj&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Posse%27+Comitatus&spell=1) ? Have we missed a signing statement somewhere? :rolleyes:

you're thinking of Waco

Mrleft8
05-13-2006, 09:27 PM
I stopped using rivets because of this administration.....

Victor
05-13-2006, 10:01 PM
Posse Comitatus is not in the Constitution, it dates from President Grant's time.

High C
05-14-2006, 12:08 AM
'bout damn time!

Meerkat
05-14-2006, 12:42 AM
Well, legal or not, he had to wait for someone to figure out what he was going to say after his last attempt blew up in his face.

Meerkat
05-14-2006, 12:53 AM
Posse Comitatus Act


"POSSE COMITATUS ACT" (18 USC 1385): A Reconstruction Era criminal law proscribing use of Army (later, Air Force) to "execute the laws" except where expressly authorized by Constitution or Congress. Limit on use of military for civilian law enforcement also applies to Navy by regulation. Dec '81 additional laws were enacted (codified 10 USC 371-78) clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law enforcement agencies--including the Coast Guard--especially in combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance, etc.) while generally prohibiting direct participation of DoD personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests).
The Shrubinistas want to repeal it.

Let's see....
First we decide that the laws mean whatever we want them to say.

Then we'll make military action within the borders legal.

Then, we'll just create a pretext to declare martial law and suspend elections in the name of national security.

Real cute. :rolleyes:

RonW
05-14-2006, 12:56 AM
UNfortunately the attempts coming forth to secure the borders and export illegals, is a situation that is being forced upon our goverment by the american voters. It is coming to a head, and the only reason our goverment is responding is due to their fear of being replaced.
80% of americans are fed up.
Obviously meerkat is not part of the 80%.

Meerkat
05-14-2006, 01:02 AM
Oh, my bad: DHS has already decided that it's just a legal formality.
http://www.homelandsecurity.org/journal/articles/Trebilcock.htm

Meerkat
05-14-2006, 01:03 AM
UNfortunately the attempts coming forth to secure the borders and export illegals, is a situation that is being forced upon our goverment by the american voters. It is coming to a head, and the only reason our goverment is responding is due to their fear of being replaced.
80% of americans are fed up.
Obviously meerkat is not part of the 80%.
Who says that 80% are fed up? After all, 71% are fed up with Bush!

RonW
05-14-2006, 01:06 AM
All the national news pretty much confirm both of those figures to be correct.......

Meerkat
05-14-2006, 02:06 AM
And who's going to pay for this? The supply of OPM* isn't infinite!

*OPM - other people's money - what we use to finance our spendthrift national lifestyle.

geeman
05-14-2006, 07:55 AM
Again I can only add what I have heard in my area,I have not found one person here that doesnt ""demand" the border closed,and employers locked up if found hirng Illegal Aliens.80% in THIS area would be a low figure.These people are letting their congressmen know this also,in no uncertain terms. Nationally,,I think about 80% is about right based on what the media is saying,,but here,,its closer to 100%.

Gary E
05-14-2006, 08:28 AM
Will they give the NG real bullits for their guns this time?

Remember when the NG first apeared in airports?....they looked impressive with their uniforms, dogs, and guns etc, but no bullits...

Gary E
05-14-2006, 08:50 AM
Norman...

FIRST.... Stop the leak

Gary E
05-14-2006, 09:16 AM
Norm,
What you said is SECOND

Build the wall, even if it;s a man every 20 yards from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific

geeman
05-14-2006, 09:32 AM
The wall is only part of the answer.No matter what kind of wall we put up,,if the jobs are here,they will find a way thru.We Do have to strengthen the wall,,but we have to tackle the problem of why their wanting to come here in the 1st place,,and thats the jobs issue with illegal hiring.

High C
05-14-2006, 09:35 AM
We'll never be able to fully do either, a) cut off employer demand, or b) seal the border. We must therefore try our best to do both.

geeman
05-14-2006, 09:38 AM
It appears here,,in my area,,that since Tenn has stopped issuing drivers permits based on phony papers,,,,,1st we noticed more illegals walking,,,,,,,,,,,,,, this last week,,we've noticed a small drop in the number of illegals themselves........May this continue!!!!!.I wonder where their going though,,maybe up north? lol

bjmullins
05-14-2006, 09:56 AM
Not long ago (much closer to 9-11) in this "sealing" the border debate, I remember a lot of spin given to the concept that an unsecured border (mainly our Southern border, but I guess Canada too) would not only allow "good" illegals but also potential terrorists. Now the argument seems economic in nature. The most common argument I hear for the reason why immigrants come to the US (mostly illegally, but I suppose legally too) is because there are jobs in the US that aren't available elsewhere in Latin America. I would generally agree that this is true, but surely there are a few immigrants who don't plan on working and subscribe to the radical idea that the US stole the southwest from Mexico. None-the-less, I have worked with Hispanics (and married one) and I have been impressed with how hard they work. There is no doubt that living conditions south of the border are generally bad, or for the very few they are very good, and I think it is this few that has the most to explain. Americans can debate about sealing the border, sending illegals back and punishing employers all we want, but until the governments of these Latin American countries actually do something to improve their economy, stop corruption and do something for the lives of their poorest citizens and not only the richest, well I am afraid there will always be an urge for people to seek a place to make a better life. Be very certain, the social and economic elite of these countries DO NOT WANT poor peasants in their countries! They are a headache and MAYBE if agitated enough would actually PROTEST in Mexico City instead of Los Angeles!
If you think of labor as a commodity, then think of it as another commodity we get from south of the border, illegal drugs. How long have we been fighting a war on drugs? sealing our borders from drugs? patrolling the Gulf of Mexico? What success have we had? I don't know if we have had very much. And it seems why we haven't had much is because of the demand for drugs by our citizens. Isn't this like the demand for labor by business? So suppose there are very harsh penalties for hiring an illegal? Would that stop the practice? Do harsh penalties for drug use stop that practice? I saw a local news program once, I think it was somewhere in GA, and the reporter was interviewing a restaurant owner. She asked him if he was given information that the Hispanics he was employing as bus boys and cooks where illegal, would he do anything? He replied he wouldn't do anything (as far as reporting them to the authorities) that it was not his job to police for illegals and that if no government agency came to enforce the law, then why should he? Anyway it all seems like greed to me and we are all doomed!

geeman
05-14-2006, 10:02 AM
Part of the reason that the ""war on Drugs" hasnt worked is as you say,,""the demand" is here.But part of it is simply we havent (as a country) demanded enough resourses be used to actually combat the problem at least on our southern border.We simply didnt want to deal with it at the time.Now its ""pay the piper" time,,we have to,,there is no choice or as you say ""we are all doomed"

geeman
05-14-2006, 10:08 AM
BJ,,your also right I think about the average person tends to think its always ""somebody elses" job to deal with illegal activities.I see it here in my area all the time.If asked why they didnt report a situation of some sort here the answer is""I'm not a cop,,it's not my job ,,if the cops wanna know whats going on let them come find out themselves." Thats one of our problems as a country now,,it's always somebody elses job,the average citizen doesnt want to be involved.

Gary E
05-14-2006, 10:13 AM
It appears here,,in my area,,that since Tenn has stopped issuing drivers permits based on phony papers,,,,,1st we noticed more illegals walking,,,,,,,,,,,,,, this last week,,we've noticed a small drop in the number of illegals themselves........May this continue!!!!!.I wonder where their going though,,maybe up north? lol

You have some one there counting them? How do the "counters" know which ones are illegal?

geeman
05-14-2006, 10:26 AM
Since its our off season,,tourist wise ,,we can see less people on the streets.This city only has 3000 full time residents Gary.It's not hard to tell who is who and what is what here.

ccoffer
05-14-2006, 10:49 AM
Y'know, I hear plenty of folks who think themselves smart talking about removing incentives for entering the US in a criminal fashion instead of making it more difficult to enter this country in a criminal fashion.

It is a remarkably stupid concept. The basic jist is that we somehow turn Mexico into something other than a third world **** hole and them folks will dig it there and not brave the desert and getting their back wet and all the rest in order to get here.(these are the same sorts of mental giants who attack any foreign policy initiative that respects liberal democracy more than witch doctor-socialism) Orrrrrr, we could turn this country into the same sort of toilet as most of Central America and also remove the "root causes" of criminal alien invasion.

To the tragically proud and stupid,(leftist ideologues) the idea of defending this nation from a criminal invasion is bad manners because it begins with what they consider a flawed premise. In their warped minds, this country is not worthy of defense and deserves destruction.

Read their words and think of the motivation behind them. It is sad, but it is true.

bjmullins
05-14-2006, 10:50 AM
I also think it is interesting to see the response of my in-laws (American’s of Hispanic descent) to illegal immigrants. It is sad for them to see their fellow Latinos in these low paying, low status jobs. Yes, it is much more than they could make in Mexico, but it is much less than they could make had they be given an education and a chance. This relates to my original rant about the horrible state of the Latin American economies. I think they see it as sad that they really can't stay in Mexico, even if they wanted to, and ever expect to have even a moderately affluent lifestyle. Even thought many probably rather would. It also makes me wonder, what is it about a person's character to make them leave all they know, language and culture, to go far away to seek a better life? I like to remind myself that I too am descended from immigrants (albeit legal). And I like to think of my America as a country full of the descendents of immigrants. And I like to think that if anything made this country what it is (I mean the greatness of it) it was that we were all once immigrants. I like to think that my Scots-Irish ancestors didn't leave Europe because they were weak or stupid, but because they were POOR and probably hungry and willing to work hard and make a better life. And they did that, both my WW2 era grandfathers were coal miners, not a very pleasant occupation at all. So I guess you could argue how much better or worse off Europe was after the period of immigration to America, but I like to believe that we got the best their was, the most determined and the hardest working. And I wonder, is that who is leaving Mexico now? Whether illegal or not, isn't Mexico (and wherever else they come from) losing its most valuable resource? I don't know, but it is something I never hear them ask on CNN or Fox.

Tom Montgomery
05-14-2006, 10:59 AM
Again I can only add what I have heard in my area,I have not found one person here that doesnt ""demand" the border closed,and employers locked up if found hirng Illegal Aliens.80% in THIS area would be a low figure.
Blah, blah, blah.... More angst over a "hot" topic sure to distract us all.

So how much more are ya'll willing to spend on groceries? A LOT more by the sound of it. :rolleyes:

George Jung
05-14-2006, 11:16 AM
Well, ya gotta hand it to Bush and his cronies....

One of the most outstanding examples of public misdirection in decades: start with the problem of employers hiring illegal immigrants so they can get ultra-cheap labor, and then misdirect the public into believing it's a border security problem.

This one will be studied in political science classes in universities for decades to come!!!

I sent a little letter to my congressmen addressing just that concern.... and pointed out elections are just around the corner. It's an important issue; whatcha going to do about it?

Has anyone here contacted their representatives? Or just posted here?

RonW
05-14-2006, 11:42 AM
Norm has a very valid point, shut down the jobs and arreast and fine the employers. You will then dry up the jobs and with no jobs, guess what, the vast majority will be forced to return to mexico, on their own accord, without exspense to the taxpayers of free bus rides.
But the situation has becomed so severe that now fines and fences
both are in order to control the situation.

Now if we had a real president, he could come on t.v. and say point blank, that we are going to give the employers of america 30 or 60 days to replace all the illegal employees with american citiizens and after that all hell is going to break loose if you have a work force of illegals. The whole mess can be cleaned up quicker then one would ever guess it could be..
But bush's speech is going to be interesting watching him backslide in a political arrena so as to increase his popularity and hopefully pave the way for his brother as well as have a good standing, of which he does not at this time in the history books....

Bush has already stepped all over himself on the mexican problem by sending signals and plainly saying -they need jobs we need workers, they are doing jobs americans won't, the minutemen patrolling the border are a bunch of vigillantes....what a idiot.....

All this should have been being done for the last 60 years, but each and every administration has relaxed the immigration issue, and reagan had no business in giving ammenisty, that started the chain reactiion....

So what is the root of all this evil and wrong doing??
I'll tell you where the real problem lies, it falls at the feet of the average two faced, back stabbing, turncoat , sleezy, scummy, thieving politician.....The snake in the grass.....
Why is washington filled with lawyer politicians.
You exsplain how all these congressmen and senators are multi millionairs....They wasn't when they took office, and their pay and networth should defintely throw up red flags for a I.R.S. investigation..
And what about all these LOBBYISTS.. A political word for official bribers....yea let's get bribed..
Ross Perrott said to throw the alligator skinned lobbyists, bribers, out of washington, and all hell came down on him..

How does a simple bill such as a child protection bill, end up being 600 pages and a cost of billions for all kind of krapt.
Without all the add on bribes, the bill could be reduced to one or two pages, and a cost of millions instead of billions.

I will give bill clinton credit for one thing- he pushed through the line item veto, that has since never been used. Oh yea he also gave the american people a little insight as to the everyday happenings in the oval office. I enjoyed it.

Any and all problems in america can be traced back to our goverment either allowing it, or not stopping it. Corrupt politicians are the cause of the problems. That is the root of the evil.

Replacing old time politicains at the voting booth is the way to clean up messes like this...Just vote for the new guy, he isn't corrupt yet..

geeman
05-14-2006, 11:46 AM
TOM, if you dont care to participate in the discussion and are tired of hearing it,,why dont you read something else?

Gary E
05-14-2006, 11:48 AM
I sent a little letter to my congressmen addressing just that concern.... and pointed out elections are just around the corner. It's an important issue; whatcha going to do about it?

Has anyone here contacted their representatives? Or just posted here?

If you or anyone is in a district where the Tyson Foods, Perdue Chicken, ADM, or any of the meat suppliers are located, just how much of a campain contributation are you willing to make to over ride those of the big guys? Get REAL I am convinced that the people of the US have the best representives that money can buy.

You are welcome to prove me wrong.

geeman
05-14-2006, 11:50 AM
""the best reps that money can BUY" that line speaks for itself.

RonW
05-14-2006, 11:50 AM
No tom is concerned that a head of letuce will go from .98 cents to a $1.19 and that seems to be his big concern, appearntly he isn't concerned with the employment of other americans.
Maybe he will be on day when a mexican is doing his job for half the wages.

Cuyahoga Chuck
05-14-2006, 11:52 AM
I do not have an answer. But I do know that;
Some National Guardsmen have been on active duty so long they may just as well have been members of the Regular Army.
The various state national guard units are traditionally supplied with cast-off equipment from the Regular Army. The demand for equipment, particularly rolling stock, has been so great in Iraq that the Guard/Reserve units have had to leave their unit's equipment behind when they returned home. I have heard that the percentage of equipment left behind is 75% and since there is no longer any cast-off equipment there is nothing but a lot of head scratching going on in Guard/Reserve logistics headquarters. Maybe we will have to return to those thrilling days of horse soldiers.
There is not a bottomless pit of Guard/Reserve soldiers. Sometime, maybe soon, the military will be scraping the bottom in their attempts to do everything the president commands.
One solution is always there but, it involved the dreaded "D" word. Bring back the DRAFT. When there was a draft, all males, (no, I don't know how a female draft would work) whether legal or illegal residents of the US were draft bait. As I recall, the illegal immigrant problem didn't surge until the draft was eliminated. But since they are here already let's see how they feel about chasing their co-nationals around the Sonoran Desert in battle dress in 100+° temperatures.
That's it from Ahia.

Charlie

"One never knows, does one?"

geeman
05-14-2006, 11:53 AM
I wonder if TOM knows how much of his taxes goes for ""support" ( medical etc ) so his head of lettice can be so cheap?

RonW
05-14-2006, 11:55 AM
Bush has abused the national guard so badly, that in years to come dammed few will join it....it is on it's way out...

geeman
05-14-2006, 11:56 AM
I always was a draft supporter,,,,I agree we need the draft back.But since we now have equal opportunity ,every citizen of draft age should have to put in some time.Not just the non college kids either.That oughta set a few off lol

bjmullins
05-14-2006, 12:03 PM
Sign me UP!

http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/sh/5_murray.jpgUS Cav Trooper Mexican border 1917-1920

High C
05-14-2006, 12:40 PM
Bush has abused the national guard so badly......

So you're saying that we allowed the regular military to be cut too much? When did that happen? Under whose control? How many times has this pattern been repeated?

geeman
05-14-2006, 12:49 PM
It happens after every large war,,we cut back the military as if we wont need it again.The public forgets the armed forces until we need them.Then we wonder why their not there.

Cuyahoga Chuck
05-14-2006, 12:54 PM
Dear RonW,
I don't see how anybody from the RUBY RED part of Ahia could possibly be throwing fits about "the average two faced, back stabbing, turncoat , sleezy, scummy, thieving politician.....The snake in the grass.....".
In Ahia, "the average two faced, back stabbing, turncoat , sleezy, scummy, thieving politician.....The snake in the grass.....". runs the whole damn state. Everybody in power in Ahia, except for two Supreme Court justices ,is a RUBY RED REPUBLICAN. And a lot of them are under investigation as we speak. And now that TOM NOE (the biggest REPUBLICAN money raiser in Ahia's history) is about to spill his guts to get a lighter sentence, there may be more of the REPUBLICAN CLIQUE going to jail.
And I must point out that the arrow you aimed at Washington was off the mark a little bit. You forgot to include some Washintonians who are "the average two faced, back stabbing, turncoat , sleezy, scummy, thieving politician.....The snake in the grass.....". and not lawyers. These are people who hand out lucre that dwarfs the average lobbying pay-off. And you folks from Southern Ahia put them in power when you voted for president.
This big money comes out of the Pentagon, run by Don Rumsfeld, overseen by Dick Cheney with the blessings of George Bush.
There are accusations that from 20 -50 BILLIONs of dollars has disappeared down some rathole and can't be accounted for. And a lot of what can be accounted for has gone to backers of the president in amounts that are far in excess of the value of what was bought. Lesser amounts come out of Homeland Security where the process is the same.
You folks downstate wanted a RED government and you got a RED government. State and federal. Your RED government was telling you what you wanted to hear while it was picking your pocket. Too bad.
So don't try to suggest that the bad stuff is being done by some unnamed "them". It's being done by the party in power. If you find that discomforting then talk to your friends and neighbors in Downstate Ahia to choose more wisely when the go to the polls.

Charlie

bjmullins
05-14-2006, 12:55 PM
I think High C is refering to the Clinton era drawdown. That was after a large war, the Cold War!

geeman
05-14-2006, 12:59 PM
RIGHT BJ,but its standard procedure after about any war,,,,,,

Tom Montgomery
05-14-2006, 01:01 PM
No tom is concerned that a head of letuce will go from .98 cents to a $1.19 and that seems to be his big concern, appearntly he isn't concerned with the employment of other americans.
Sure I am, which is why I opposed NAFTA. Are you just as concerned about American manufacturing jobs leaving our country?

But as for Mexicans: do you honestly believe American citizens are being shut out of these types of jobs (e.g. meat packing and agricultural labor) due to illegals?


I wonder if TOM knows how much of his taxes goes for ""support" ( medical etc ) so his head of lettice can be so cheap?
I do not. Do YOU? If so, educate me. I am willing to learn.

And while you're at it, explain to me how such support would amount to less if others were doing these jobs. After all, a lot (the majority?) of these folks are working poor.

You guys seem to believe that if we rid our country of all the illegals tomorrow, our economy wouild not miss a beat.

bjmullins
05-14-2006, 01:03 PM
Right, the "peace dividend". The only problem is that some segments of our society would just as soon there be no military what-so-ever, so that all that money could be spent on social programs. But the peace never lasts, go figure.

geeman
05-14-2006, 01:07 PM
I also opposed Nafta.I dont think the economy would collapse if thats what you mean.As for the working poor,,I do know that some companies dont hire anymore,,so the working poor cant get the job,,because an illegal is already there working for half what that company would have paid the ""local guy"You can call that progress if you want,,its STILL ILLEGAL,,

bjmullins
05-14-2006, 01:08 PM
I wonder if anyone has bothered to figure out how much illegal aliens are paid? Is it minumum wage? Below? Above? I just wonder if all the sudden the 11 million or whatever it is, illegals were made legal, they would continue to work at the wages and benefits that they currently do, assuming they are less. I would venture to say they would want a raise! Partly to offset the taxes they'd have to be paying! BUT then we'd MORE illegals! I MEAN REAL under the radar types!!! Maybe from Africa or India, they'd need to biuld boats to get here. Out of wood I'm sure.

George Jung
05-14-2006, 01:08 PM
But as for Mexicans: do you honestly believe American citizens are being shut out of these types of jobs (e.g. meat packing and agricultural labor) due to illegals?
I do not. Do YOU? If so, educate me. I am willing to learn.
.

Yes, actually. My extended family lives in a community that has 'enjoyed' the influx of illegals, most employed by the local meatpacking plant.... and they 'replaced' a large number of the local work force with these folks, at much reduced pay rates. But it wasn't enough. There was still a significant portion of the 'management' and long time employees they weren't able to run off... so they 'closed' the plant; every one is now 'unemployed', and seeking other jobs. But the illegals are sticking around. Seems the word is out the plant is scheduled to re-open soon, with all available positions filled with the illegals, and lower-echelon locals (that don't cost so much, no seniority).

geeman
05-14-2006, 01:10 PM
It always comes down to,,this,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, If you dont have a good peacetime military,,you wont have the social programs to worry about either ,,someone else will dictate it for you eventually.

geeman
05-14-2006, 01:12 PM
George is telling it straight,,thats the way it is,,,,,,they ARE replacing local jobs with them.

Tom Montgomery
05-14-2006, 01:13 PM
I just wonder if all the sudden the 11 million or whatever it is, illegals were made legal, they would continue to work at the wages and benefits that they currently do, assuming they are less. I would venture to say they would want a raise! Partly to offset the taxes they'd have to be paying!
That would probably require unionization and collective bargaining.... which is none too popular these days. We could crush 'em pretty quickly, dontcha think?

geeman
05-14-2006, 01:16 PM
Thats why big business is pushing so hard NOT to make them legal ,,at least very soon anyway.They have no intention of paying them decent wages,them or anybody else if they can help it. They found cheap,labor that cant complain very much when their mistreated,,another reason illegals are so popular with them.

geeman
05-14-2006, 01:21 PM
Tom business us using the illegals as leverage,,and yes its happening all over the country,,maybe not in your area,,if not your area is exremely lucky,,,,,,,,at this time...

paladin
05-14-2006, 01:32 PM
maybe we should just build a 2 mile "no man's land" across the border area...land mines, tanglefoot, concertina wire, electrified fences, pillboxes.....
but then......the same stuff that would keep folks out...keeps others in......

geeman
05-14-2006, 01:33 PM
Jest if you want,,I'm not so sure Mexico doesnt have the right idea about their southern border tho,,,,,,

George Jung
05-14-2006, 02:28 PM
Jest if you want,,I'm not so sure Mexico doesnt have the right idea about their southern border tho,,,,,,

can you expand on that?

RonW
05-14-2006, 02:58 PM
Hey cuyohoga, are you saying that this problem is strictly due to the fact that republicans are in control, and if we all would wise up we would let the democrats be in control...

I though the democrats where in control for something like 50 years, yea ..they didn't do such a good job either, and they stole plenty as well, isn't nancy peloski worth around a 100 million..

What a shame that any political disscussion, always ends up being the blues against the reds.....so what about the real problem......

Call a spade a spade and put the blame, or praise where it goes reguardless of which party it is.
And wise up the dems and reps are in bed together and laughing all the way to the bank...

Where is ahia....is it on a map?

Cuyahoga Chuck
05-14-2006, 05:15 PM
RonW,
Yeaboy! You got my drift.
Whether it's religion or the law, everyone is responible for his own sins. Neither St. Peter nor any judge is going to accept a plea of "not guilty" "because so-and-so was a big sinner too".
Right now the sinners seem to mostly be RED. The BLUE sinners may be big time sinners too but they don't control the government of the United States and they can't get their paws on the really big money.
When the BLUES take over the congress in 2007 you are free too hoot their transgressions to the moon if they turn out as bad as the REDS (as if anybody could duplicate their abysmal record) who plague us now. But, right now this is a RED ballgame. They have the ability to get their way and avoid the dogs of the law. But it won't always be so.
If you haven't heard of Ahia you haven't ever heard the late lamented Jim Rhodes speak. He was a big time Republican from downstate. He was Governor of Ahia for 16 years. You can go thru' every recording he ever made and you will never hear him say OHIO. I used to think it was a bad habit but, now that I think about it, I think he did it intensionally to charm the hell out of all the voters who lived south of Interstate 70.
Also, I was in a basic training platoon at Fort Knox that was full of draftees from Cincinnati. They all said Ahia too.

from Northern Ahia,

Cuyahoga Chuck

RonW
05-14-2006, 06:22 PM
Ahia- guess I got to pay more attention down here.
Ah yes the late dearly loved governor rhodes, as I remember he took the state from I think 3% sales tax to 4/12 % as a temporary measure to fix the state budget, but as promised it will be repealed as soon as possible, let's see no repeal and now 7% sales tax........
Well maybe someday it will be repealed......

You are in the sweet town of cleveland, got cousins there, and been meaning to come up and do some ice fishing....but...
I did some work down on erie ave, what a nice section of town.
And I will admitt the mcdonalds looked like the immigration center, with 2 city cops standing guard and 4 cameras, one in each corner, and the restroom was unlocked by the cop, and locked behind you by the cop, it is a strange feeling to have the entire restroom at mcdonald's all to yourself........

I have no problem in blaming who ever, rep or dem. But unfortunately they are a few on this board that only get their news from al frankin and rosie odonnell.........

And the politicians that are in bed together love it, divide and conquer and laugh all the way to the bank......
Which does absolutely nothing in disscussing and solving the real problem.............

LeeG
05-14-2006, 06:41 PM
seems to me that the immigration service should get adequate funding without using the military.

George Jung
05-14-2006, 07:09 PM
And how would that fix the situation? They're simply not trying to stop illegals, at this time. You want to throw more money at that? Of course you know what that sounds like, right?

RonW
05-14-2006, 07:19 PM
Thank you george, with that statement, I think politics have finally becomed clear to me....

-Democrats want to throw more money at a problem, hire more goverment workers and raise the taxes to pay for it all..

-Republicans want to ignore the situation, but give good lip service on the problem, and figure out how to make a profit from the problem, while at the same time skimming a little off the top....

George Jung
05-14-2006, 07:42 PM
Ooh, yer good! I think that about sums it up. Written your congressmen yet? Elections are coming...and I expect to see a bunch of new faces come December...

RonW
05-14-2006, 07:56 PM
Write them you say, I call them, your senator will shake more then your average congressman, I guess they get bigger bribes.

After all these years I finally learned how to vote. A old man taught me, as he says son always vote for the new guy, the new guy you say, yes the new guy, he hasn't yet becomed corrupt and will raise hell to make a name for himself...but give hime time and he will be one of them..

Gary E
05-14-2006, 07:58 PM
Thank you george, with that statement, I think politics have finally becomed clear to me....

-Democrats want to throw more money at a problem, hire more goverment workers and raise the taxes to pay for it all..

-Republicans want to ignore the situation, but give good lip service on the problem, and figure out how to make a profit from the problem, while at the same time skimming a little off the top....

Is Haliburton in that biz??
Do they WANT to be??
Given enough time, they could be, therefore the delay....Ohhh there's that name DeLay again....