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ishmael
05-04-2006, 09:30 PM
I've heard various ideas over the years.

My thinking is to have it loaded with small shot. I've heard bean bags and scare shots, but if you need it, bird shot.

I often don't lock my door at night, but just in case. Even around here you never know when a crazed meth addict might demand more than you can give.

Paul Pless
05-04-2006, 09:34 PM
Number 5 or 6 - a typical turkey load would be my choice. At close range out of a short barrel it would be hard to beat...

...although I'm sure other opinions will differ.

Scubastud
05-04-2006, 09:37 PM
Jack-

please check your p message

LeeG
05-04-2006, 09:59 PM
I've heard various ideas over the years.

My thinking is to have it loaded with small shot. I've heard bean bags and scare shots, but if you need it, bird shot.

I often don't lock my door at night, but just in case. Even around here you never know when a crazed meth addict might demand more than you can give.

Check with Cheney,,small shot might not go through the walls of your trailer but if you really want protection you want to scatter the crazed meth addicts viscera all across the wall. Get something bigger than small bird shot. He might still want your white ass after bird shot.

Paul Pless
05-04-2006, 10:03 PM
He might still want your white ass after bird shot.


LOL!!!

Victor
05-04-2006, 10:13 PM
Get a dog, Jack, and you won't need the gun. A dog is the best security system you can get. Your meth addict will take his business elsewhere.

I can't believe anyone who wants a dog as much as you say you do still doesn't have one.

John Bell
05-04-2006, 10:13 PM
This website seems to agree with the sentiment that bird shot is for little birds only, use buckshot if you need to stop larger game.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

FWIW, the guys who put that site together sure do seem to have a lt fun shooting stuff.

John Gearing
05-04-2006, 10:14 PM
I think we had this discussion or a close-enough relative of it a while back.

Start by locking your door at night. Otherwise you might not wake up to find the oxycontin fiend in your house. Have a good deadbolt, well anchored, and not the kind with a knob latch on the inside. This should at least give you time to wake up, get up, and get ready for action. I wouldn't recommend shooting through a closed door. Wait for him to get in or at least force an entry path. You could call 911 while you wait, if you want.

Phillip Allen
05-04-2006, 10:15 PM
small shot is all that's needed...it the bad guy is too far for small shot to be effective then you don't need to be shootin at him anyway

Memphis Mike
05-04-2006, 10:18 PM
For crazed meth addicts, I prefer one of these. Gawd......I love the way the sun gleams on the barrels in the mornin.


http://www.gatlingguns.net/images/gat2.jpg

Phillip Allen
05-04-2006, 10:22 PM
That’ll be a bit difficult to move around Mike...which caliber do you want that in...They went all the way up to a one inch bore for redoubt reduction

Memphis Mike
05-04-2006, 10:23 PM
This website seems to agree with the sentiment that bird shot is for little birds only, use buckshot if you need to stop larger game.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

FWIW, the guys who put that site together sure do seem to have a lt fun shooting stuff.

At close range in the house, small shot will blow a hole as big as a basketball in a meth addict.

Buckshot can travel through the walls of your house and wound or kill one of your neighbors.

Phillip Allen
05-04-2006, 10:24 PM
yeah...what Mike said...

Memphis Mike
05-04-2006, 10:24 PM
That’ll be a bit difficult to move around Mike...which caliber do you want that in...They went all the way up to a one inch bore for redoubt reduction

Do they make one in 50 cal.?:D

Phillip Allen
05-04-2006, 10:26 PM
50-70 I believe

LeeG
05-04-2006, 10:28 PM
Two big boats followed the Volvo boats in today,,one had what I think are 3" cannons,,those are LOUD. Nice CRACK sound the little cannons didn't have.

How about a "doomsday" device for the home? Bad guy comes in, hit the panic button and flash grenades go off with the roof flying off and the walls splitting open,,nothing to aim.

RonW
05-04-2006, 10:31 PM
It doesn't matter whether you put in #9 birdshot or double ott buckshot, at the distance inside a home, it will dammed near cut a man in half.

Chenney sprayed a fellow hunter with #9 birdshot probaly at around 40 yards and from a 28 gauge I believe.

Did you ever think of locking your doors so if you had to shoot a meth head or a starving mexican in the middle of the night, you won't have to go through a inquiry and murder investigation, and possible stand trial, even if it is self defense, you might have to stand trial for all the evidence to come out and for you to be cleared once and for all.

Neat gatling gun, also referred to as a mexican peacemaker.
Built from plans sold by dixie gunworks......

LeeG
05-04-2006, 10:36 PM
You're right, the Cheney comment was irrelevant. I still like the Doomsday Device.

High C
05-04-2006, 10:38 PM
Small shot doesn't penetrate, it infuriates.

OO Buck

RonW
05-04-2006, 10:40 PM
high c since you know so much, take small shot in a 12 gauge and shoot a telephone book at 20 ft, see what is left...

Phillip Allen
05-04-2006, 10:42 PM
Small shot doesn't penetrate, it infuriates.

OO Buck

I know of a man who killed a bear that charged him while he was hunting birds...with small shot. He had a double and waited till the bear was just a few feet from him then pulled both triggers...dead bear

LeeG
05-04-2006, 10:50 PM
But what if you're in your house, crashed after having four or five beers, the crazed meth addict comes in and you wake up and see him and shoot but miss, he grabs the gun, shoots you and misses,,NOW WHAT?

The Doomsday Device

John Bell
05-04-2006, 10:52 PM
high c since you know so much, take small shot in a 12 gauge and shoot a telephone book at 20 ft, see what is left...

Go to the web site I posted earlier and READ. It's interesting, really.

If you've got the muzzle on the bad guy's temple, it wouldnt matter if you were shooting blanks. But once you pull back 20 feet, shot size does matter. Of course anyone who doubts your intentions while you've got a 12 gauge shotgun trained at their solar plexus is an idiot. Me, all you'd have to do is say the magic words "I have a gun" and I'd take your word for it. Later dude!

RonW
05-04-2006, 10:52 PM
pull the derringer out from under the pillow...

RonW
05-04-2006, 10:58 PM
Haven't went to the website, but fully aware of all these arm chair writers with ballistic coefeiency,muzzle energy and section density krapt that they write up to sell to make money.

A shotgun is one of the deadliest weapons around.
12 gauge slugs are used in africa for back up on lion and other dangerous game.A favorite among guides everywhere..

LeeG
05-04-2006, 11:02 PM
Ron, check it out, it's fun.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
05-04-2006, 11:06 PM
Sure get a twelve gauge for protection from Meth addicts. Don't forget to make up a few extra tinfoil hats to ward off those pesky Martian waves that take over your brain. :D

LeeG
05-04-2006, 11:11 PM
no,,not tin foil hats,,line the floor with a perimeter of glass bottles and aluminum cans that only you know they way through.

RonW
05-04-2006, 11:11 PM
O.K. went to the site, the guy seems to not know about drams of powder, the force behind the projectile. Where these field loads?
Change loads and things may come alive, he needs more critical specifications to conduct a valid test.
Drywall with spaces between them is a weird medium, unlike the structure and make up of a animal...

Kim Whitmyre
05-04-2006, 11:22 PM
When I was in the "Shooting Sports Alliance," a very nice bunch of people, we had shotgun matches after the pistol matches. Sometimes we had pin matches, which are 21' from line to bowling pins: aiming is highly recommended. At other times we had "steel" matches: 3-4 stages of 3 pepper poppers (heavy steel plate targets that fall when hit squarely). The targets at each stage were staggered in range; engage a stage, traverse to next stage. The guns were loaded so as to require a moving reload at some point during the stages. I used a Benelli with an 8 round capacity. If you don't use the sights you don't knock the poppers down.

I would not want to have a shotgun pointed at me at any range by someone who knows how to use it!

Knowing how to use it is paramount; practice, practice, practice. Preferrably in the company of others who know how to handle firearms.

Phillip Allen
05-04-2006, 11:24 PM
Yeah...I looked at the site...big deal. Presently, the only firearm I have loaded is a replica of an 1858 Remington...it is all I need if even that... (There’s a fireplace poker in the next room) The little (I think) 127 grain RB from the ole cap n ball was clocked at just under 1000 fps over my chrony (that would make it about the same as getting hit with three .22 bullets at the same time)...it makes a lot of noise and I have confidence in it...fire and smoke is the best part. If I make a leak in someone and he still wants to dance, I'll make more leaks till he sits down

Peter Malcolm Jardine
05-04-2006, 11:32 PM
Years later the Lone Ranger finds out "Kimosabe" is indian for "horses behind"

High C
05-04-2006, 11:38 PM
high c since you know so much, take small shot in a 12 gauge and shoot a telephone book at 20 ft, see what is left...

I'll remember that if I'm ever attacked by a phone book. :rolleyes:

Kim Whitmyre
05-04-2006, 11:39 PM
Meth freaks? The one to worry about is oneself.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
05-04-2006, 11:40 PM
Are you kidding? There is a Church of Methamphetamine in Bangor right now. Peter Seeger leads the singalong every Sunday. :D

Peter Malcolm Jardine
05-04-2006, 11:48 PM
http://www.ericisgreat.com/tinfoilhats/tinhatani.gif

Jagermeister
05-05-2006, 12:10 AM
I got a catalogue the other day that was advertising surplus door breaching rounds. I think they are compressed powdered metal slugs. Tear a door off its hinges, but fragments almost immediately.

Even if they don't penetrate fully they'll probably break a bone.

Let me know if you want me to check further. There might be a few shipment restrictions.

Jagermeister
05-05-2006, 12:12 AM
I'd stay away from the 50-70 Gatling gun. You'd have to use black powder, and after the first few rounds you won't be able to see them coming. You'll be enveloped in a smoke screen of your own making where you can't see them but they can still see you.

Get a Maxim - they use smokeless. Better yet, get a GE minigun, like Dillon has. That'll keep you safe.

RonW
05-05-2006, 12:18 AM
Peter from ontario, you appear to be well read, you always seem to be able to add a little to the topic, no matter what it is.
I love it....
Kinda miss dutch though...

--Oh the gatlin, it was able to be made in all kinds of rounds, smokeless as well, just had to be a staright wall case, even 22's as i remeber, and 45's and so forth.

BrianW
05-05-2006, 12:30 AM
12 gauge slugs are used in africa for back up on lion and other dangerous game.A favorite among guides everywhere..

There are always exceptions, but from what I've read shotguns are only used when tracking down wounded Leopards. They're thin skinned and relatively small, shot is used, not slugs.

Usually double rifles, or bolt action rifles in calibers .40 or larger are the preferred choice by PH's.

Your mileage may vary.... :)

BrianW
05-05-2006, 12:44 AM
O.K. went to the site, the guy seems to not know about drams of powder, the force behind the projectile.
Drams? Maybe you meant grains?

Most 'experts' recommend factory ammo for self-defense. Handloaded ammo can make the victim/shooter look bad in court. So I can understand the author not exploring handloads in a self-defense article.

Joe (SoCal)
05-05-2006, 05:23 AM
So now Jack wants a shotgun :rolleyes: Last month he wanted some 9mm hand gun. He's got some old revolver tucked under his pillow. All this to protect his worldly possessions in a trailer in the back woods of Maine from the proverbial crazed meth addict :confused: :rolleyes: Why do all the gun nuts think they need bigger and badder and MORE guns to play the super stud hero with the violent intruder. Someone please give me the stats on violent break in's in Bangor?

No offense jack but what do you have that some crazed meth addict would want, unless your cooking the stuff yourself ????

Get real people most of you would sh*t your pants if some meth head bounced into your house before you could even grab your oh so cool OO buck loaded Mossberg with the pistol grip and the marine grade finish. I bet I could bust in your houses with my bald head and attitude and bitch slap you before you would even remember where you put your gun.

Panic does strange things to the hero image you have of yourself.

Jack get a dog.

FWIW if I was to ever get a gun for protection shotgun is the way to go. Use it at such close range it wont mater if you use buck or rock salt. Think of using it like you would a kitchen knife GET THAT CLOSE. Then again I have a good set of kitchen knifes ;) Hell I got a good right cross and I never have to find that :D I guess I still don't need a gun :D :D

geeman
05-05-2006, 05:27 AM
If you shoot,,in court you will almost always be questioned and made too appear as if you wanted to kill,they'll try to make you the bad guy.Use factory rounds of whatever you use.Use a short barrel shotgun if your comfortable with it.But KNOW your weapon in any case.Never shoot thru a door,,,you dont know what your shooting at for sure.I mostly agree with Joe here,,except I grew up with guns and their second nature to me,,If your the LEAST bit nervous around guns,,dont bring one in the house.My only problem with guns are, my wife's a better shot then I am.I do not plan on dueling with her, lol.We have no kids here at home,,so all guns here are loaded,a bear dont care if the door is locked,its just a small bush or tree in his way,that we do have to consider here,so the guns are loaded.This is a high drug area,but in 16 years in this house in the woods ,,the only time Ive needed a weapon was a bear in my yard that didnt spook when I tried hollering at him 1st.No one has ever so much as touched a tool left laying in the yard in all those years.

paladin
05-05-2006, 05:31 AM
That Gatling posted has a very short magazine...there's a drum magazine conversion that wil quadruple the available rounds....and you can use smokeless powder....in an earlier posting I disposed of the motor for a 20mm gatling, I can try to retrieve it if you wanna build a gun around it.....:D

geeman
05-05-2006, 05:36 AM
Uhhhh Joe, lol I dont think it would be your finest day if you busted in my house lolBut feel free to put me in your will as far as Tidbit is concerned lol

Joe (SoCal)
05-05-2006, 05:50 AM
geeman, no worries mate ;) I'm just saying you have to ask yourself the big question could you have the gronicals and the clearness of mind to grab a weapon then pull the trigger at the rite time. Sounds simple, sounds heroic, ..... it aint.

Besides geeman, I've grown partial to Tidbit and I don't make it a habit of breaking into peoples homes and bitch slapping them :D :D :D

geeman
05-05-2006, 05:56 AM
Joes right,,"it aint like Tv".I used to work as a bouncer,or kooler in discos,nightclubs,,even there I only had one guy in those years that decided in his drunk state of mind that it would be a good idea to shoot the kooler.After he was thrown out he came back in with a revolver in his pocket and tried to draw on me,thinking that I was unarmed,,if I had been I wouldnt be here.He saw Me get ready to draw and he chickened out and walked back out the door.Was I a wreck? you BET! lol But not until after it was all over.Guy went to jail BTW.

Joe (SoCal)
05-05-2006, 06:07 AM
Nothing beats practice eh Geeman ? :D Been in a few close call situations myself and knowing how to handle yourself is the key, 99% of the population don't know how to handle themselves, and sh*t the bed.

Then again there was this time that I picked the wrong guy to mess with. He was an army ranger. I was drunk in FLa, he could have killed me. Thank God it was over quick with me in the sleeper hold, lights out goodnight. He set me in a booth like a baby, no guns needed. When I came too the bartender told me who he was and what his experience was. Always remember there is someone bigger and badder than you. Damn if he did not look like I could have taken him :D

What was that song Big Bad Leroy Brown :D :D :D

geeman
05-05-2006, 06:10 AM
Worked in a factory for a while years after that,,guy came up behind me hit me in the back of the head and knocked me clean out laid out flat.Woke up a few minutes later and the foreman and several other guys had got together and thrown him out.This hero stuff aint as much fun as it is on television lol

ishmael
05-05-2006, 06:12 AM
A few months ago there was a story in our news of a coked-up couple who left their two baby girls out in the woods, for some addled reason. They thought the cops were coming, and went nuts. People do very odd, unpredictable things, sometimes. Not rational. Someone did call the cops on them, and thankfully the little girls were found before they froze to death.

Every winter there's at least one story of young men breaking into camps to take whatever they can carry, and it's always(99%) to feed a habit.

I'd have no problem pulling the trigger if I found such a mad man or woman hovering over me some night. It wouldn't be my first response, but if it came to it, bang, you're dead. Nice to have the option if things go that direction.

And, I'll likely keep leaving my door unlocked.

geeman
05-05-2006, 06:17 AM
Ish ,,mostly we agree on things,,but in my mind,,leaving the door unlocked is the same as just inviting them in.And if you wake with them ""hovering over you" I'mma thinkin its a little late for a fire response lol

cs
05-05-2006, 06:18 AM
M576 - Multipurpose: A moderately common round with multiple potential uses, the M576 is a buckshot-loaded grenade. This makes it the equivalent of a sawn-off 40mm shotgun -- wide spread, high penetration (for buckshot) and thus a very high damage capacity -- at short range. The multipurpose round is not a typical "explosive" grenade -- it is, for all intents and purposes, a really big shotgun shell.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m203.jpg

Chad

edited to add: This ammo is for a M-203 40 mm grenade launcher attached to a M-16.

geeman
05-05-2006, 06:21 AM
Wife And I was sitting in our living room in a condo years ago watching tv about 8 pm.door unlocked,,Some drunk picked the wrong house and just walked right in.I got up and ordered him out of my house ,,he was too drunk too understand what I was telling him,I had to throw him out on the porch and then throw him out into the parking lot just to get his attention.

geeman
05-05-2006, 06:22 AM
CS ,,your suggesting this weapon for ""house clearing"?

cs
05-05-2006, 06:26 AM
Well it would clear a house. ;)

And if that was enough you could always put in a HE round and than if it was in the middle of the night and you needed some light you could always use the star cluster.:D

Chad

Mrleft8
05-05-2006, 06:27 AM
Jack with a loaded shotgun?
(Note to self: Stay out of Maine for the indefinate future...)

geeman
05-05-2006, 06:31 AM
Joe is right about ""always a bigger guy then you" at the same disco,,one night I stepped out to the lot and a very large all muscled polynesion? spell check ,,guy was on top of a guy beating him to a pulp on the hood of a car.I tried to pull him off but the guys arms were like my steel.I had to crawl in between them on my back with my face up in the big guys face just so he would know I was there.Took one of my employees nightstick and stuck it to his nose n told him if he didnt calm down I was gonna shove it up his nose lol.That time it worked but if he wanted too he probably could have killed me,,several times over lol

Tristan
05-05-2006, 06:32 AM
We had a guy at New River Correctional (north Florida) who had a prosthetic lower jaw. I mean he had a big piece of flesh colored plastic that somehow fit where his lower jaw should have been. Don't know how he ate, but he sure had trouble talking. Was climbing into a lady's window when she shot him in the face with a shotgun, point blank. Don't know what the load was but it virtually carried away his jaw. As for protection, locks are good, dogs are good, 911 is good, like others have said, be damned sure you are comefortable and safe with a gun or knife before you try to use one lest you get it stuck up you your butt by your attacker. Self defense and reality don't always coincide. We had a guy in the dojo in Gainesville who thought he was a real killer with karate. Used to walk home, at night, through a bad section of town, hoping he'd get to use his karate skills against a knife or gun attack. Finally he bragged to the self defense instructor (navy reserves I think) about how he could take a knife away from an attacker. To make it short, the instructor put a big slash into his leg showing him what a real knife attack was all about.

geeman
05-05-2006, 06:36 AM
Right Tristan,,believe it or not there are some people that will not back off just because you point a gun at them,,dont, unless your willing to shoot.

Joe (SoCal)
05-05-2006, 06:50 AM
Ish thats why they call it NEWS :rolleyes:

I give up get your self a arsenal Ish barricade yourself in your trailer, have fun.

Foster out

ishmael
05-05-2006, 06:59 AM
Right then, bird shot, # 6 or 7.

I don't like this, but it's reality. The need is slight, but if the time came...

I don't have the weird paranoia so many in the culture do about guns. They are what they are. Learn to use them properly and all is well. They only go at what they are pointed at. Rule number one: never point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot.

Phillip Allen
05-05-2006, 09:56 AM
Well guys, I’m 57 years old and have worked as a bricklayer for most of my adult life. I have no special training in hand to hand combat. At work, I see how much I have diminished (physically) over the years and, though it is tough to throw out old habits, I try to remember I will likely lose at hand to hand so I don’t think in those terms. Another thing that has happened as I have aged is that I have begun to learn my own limitations and I don’t mean physical limitations. I have fooled with guns for my entire life…they have always been interesting to me. I have learned a lot about the gun, what makes it work, its limitations and what it will do. For instance: in a fast moving, fast evolving situation like a gun fight is likely to be, I have no doubt that (baring being incapacitated myself first…and I realize that is a very large “if”) I am unlikely to miss what I am aiming at. Here is where knowing myself comes in…I have learned that I am a big sissy. There’s nothing I can do about it…it’s just fact. By sissy, I mean I have learned I am likely, in the fast moving situation just mentioned, to be loath to actually kill someone. A more likely scenario is I will try to incapacitate the aggressor…not the Hopalong Cassidy stuff but rather, not shooting with killing in mind…the pit of the stomach for instance or his hips. I know this is barking at the moon stuff because I can’t know the circumstances ahead of time. I’m just trying to explain my tendency would likely to be to avoid fatally shooting a guy or delivering a fatal blow, even, with the ole fireplace poker. The foregoing comments are my way of telling you I feel the bad guy is likely to have an edge at first. He has come into a strange house and threatened either directly or indirectly to harm its inhabitant and is more awake than that inhabitant. This guy is the bravest man in the world under those circumstances. He has already dealt with any apprehension he may have had and doesn’t have to make those lethal decisions I may be contemplating. That is his first edge. My indecision or hesitation to fire a fatal shot is HIS second edge. There may be only microseconds between life and death for me…these things worry me. It may be the best reason to not keep a loaded gun for me…it becomes a sort of discipline for my self to know I must THINK first that I cannot leave my future standing in the corner or stuck in the drawer of the night stand and blithely assume I’m safe. Whatever happens in the dark of night, I must have presents of mind and there are no easy ways out. My body may be asleep but my responsibilities must not sleep.

geeman
05-05-2006, 10:02 AM
Phillip,, your right about that too. One of the things I've had to deal with recently is the fact that "I Aint the man I used to be".All the things I mentioned I've done in the past you may have noticed were "years" ago.Anyone that had the 1st thought of wounding instead of killing should not have a gun in the house.You stand the chance of waiting that second too long and the gun being used against you.If you dont know yourself well,,forget the gun thing.Also as you stated,,the intruder has an advantage,,most people Do THINK that all they have to do is point a gun and the intruder will leave,that belief can and WILL get you killed.

Phillip Allen
05-05-2006, 10:11 AM
There is a high school across the street. Kids sometimes drive throu my "petunias" just to show off to their acne incrusted pals. With that in mind, I am more likely to lock-up because I owe it to those kids to make it hard for one of the idiots to get hold of one of my firearms. The difference I'm trying to show you is that my first concern is to keep the gun out of some kids hands...my second concern is to keep the gun.

John of Phoenix
05-05-2006, 11:01 AM
First guy I ever killed was a VC with an AK pointed at me from about 30 meters. I cut him in half with a mini-gun. (Three pieces actually, cut him in two across the chest and blew off an arm.) I still don't know how I beat him to the trigger.

How 'bout you guys?

Phillip Allen
05-05-2006, 11:06 AM
nobody...so far...and it's fine with me

as far as beating him to the trigger...maybe he was like me and really didn't want to kill anyone...cost him his life

geeman
05-05-2006, 11:07 AM
Deep down you knew If you didnt ,,you would die.And you were "conditioned"you were already in ""kill" mode.Glad you came out on top.

PatCox
05-05-2006, 11:07 AM
I knew a group of kids in high school in Vero Beach that loved to fight. Among the self-styled "rednecks" fighting was a sport, they liked to know where everyone was in the pecking order. There were four of them; I had been in inconclusive fights with two of them. But they were always looking for a good fight, they loved it.

Two years after graduation the four of them were in a bar with their girlfriends, one of whom was a close friend of mine, and they for some reason or another (he may have looked at them) started a fight with a guy, who was alone. He ran off to the parking lot. They all went out to there cars to leave a short time later, and here is their victim, with a gun. He shot all four, killed three, the fourth doesn't talk too well now because of the brain injury.

My friend tells me that people who are shot in the head don't just gracefully fall down and lie still, they jerk and thrash and spasm for a while.

Thats all I know about guns and fighting.

John of Phoenix
05-05-2006, 11:08 AM
as far as beating him to the trigger...maybe he was like me and really didn't want to kill anyone...

Ya know, I never thought of that. LOL

geeman
05-05-2006, 11:10 AM
John,,I wouldnt think of it that way,,now you may stop to think of it sometimes and wonder if you really had to kill him.You did.

Phillip Allen
05-05-2006, 11:10 AM
fighting with strangers is stupid...Darwin says no!

(this was in response to Pat's post)

geeman
05-05-2006, 11:12 AM
Well I guess he could have tried discussing the merits of killing with that VC before he dropped him,,,,,,,,

Don Olney
05-05-2006, 11:14 AM
I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die.

geeman
05-05-2006, 11:14 AM
Did you sell well over a million with it tho? lol

Phillip Allen
05-05-2006, 11:15 AM
Ya know, I never thought of that. LOL

I spoke of hesitation not of ultimate intent...war is hell and those who discover that first are better able to survive...we now have an entire generation who think collateral damage is a kind of fault and avoidable...it is not!

geeman
05-05-2006, 11:18 AM
One of my employees had to shoot a man one nite at a fast food place,due to the man shooting a gun at anything that moved.My employee was a Marine working for me part time.He ordered the man to drop the gun ,,instead the guy turned and pointed it at my employee,,he shot the guy in the heart,,the man walked across the parking lot to his car and then fell dead.His heart was blown apart,,he was dead,,he just didnt know it yet.

Gary E
05-05-2006, 11:19 AM
I got a catalogue the other day that was advertising surplus door breaching rounds. I think they are compressed powdered metal slugs. Tear a door off its hinges, but fragments almost immediately.

Even if they don't penetrate fully they'll probably break a bone.

Let me know if you want me to check further. There might be a few shipment restrictions.

If you are stupid enough to do that you WILL be arrested and convicted. If you do it and kill the guy it's murder. The bad guy MUST have broken INTO your house and you best not have shot him in the back.

Meth addicts im Maine??? more likely just someone trying to come inside to get outa the COLD.

geeman
05-05-2006, 11:22 AM
Gary's right,,someone trying to break in isnt threat to your life yet.On our local news here a guy shot a man he caught in his yard the other nite,,the home owner was charged with murder.

John of Phoenix
05-05-2006, 11:31 AM
I spoke of hesitation not of ultimate intent...war is hell and those who discover that first are better able to survive...
Well Phillip, the reason I found it funny is that this was maybe my second mission and my fist kill. I was 19. The Vietnamese had been fighting the French for years before we got there and had been going at with us for a few years. The idea that this guy in black PJ's pops up with an AK-47 and doesn't waste me because he suddenly questions his motives is pretty funny.

On the other hand, maybe you had to be there.

paladin
05-05-2006, 11:40 AM
Glaser safety slugs are available in many calibers....works just like a real bullet if it hits someone.....splatters if it hits drywall.......

Phillip Allen
05-05-2006, 12:04 PM
Well Phillip, the reason I found it funny is that this was maybe my second mission and my fist kill. I was 19. The Vietnamese had been fighting the French for years before we got there and had been going at with us for a few years. The idea that this guy in black PJ's pops up with an AK-47 and doesn't waste me because he suddenly questions his motives is pretty funny.

On the other hand, maybe you had to be there.

I give you the Christmas truce of 1914 as evidence that but for war "we are friends thou and I"

War is a great tragedy, but for us, unavoidable. We strive to release ourselves from its horror by stratagems and devices; gooks, jerrys, huns, karuts, slope-heads, japs, and so on. I am sorry for it but will still pull the trigger and weep later.
My uncle lives three houses up the street. Growing up here we (his son and I) used to occasionally play with his helmet from WWII. It has a hole in it, quartering from left-front to right-rear. After many years Uncle Russ told me how he got it there. It was a probing patrol somewhere on New Georgia, Pacific. A Japanese sniper delivered the attempt on my future uncle’s life and hit maybe a quarter of an inch too high. It plowed a trench across Uncle Russ’s scalp and he said if it had knocked him out he would be dead because he would certainly have been abandoned by his buddies as they rapidly pulled back. Likely, he would have been finished off with a bayonet. Uncle Russ worked behind enemy lines often. He was to gather intelligence by what ever method he could. This usually meant killing a Japanese soldier and rifling his pockets. He would locate a bivouac, then the latrine. Hiding between camp and latrine, he could expect to get them one at a time. Step out behind the man with knife ready, he had a captured Jap rifle with him just in case the guy made a noise. With a Japanese phrase equivalent to “Damn rats”, he would then fire a shot with the captured rifle…hopefully; no one would come to investigate.

Uncle Russ never told me all of the above at one sitting. I have just put it together over a long time of little snippets of stories he has told. He wouldn’t talk about his experiences at all before I was grown up…

LeeG
05-05-2006, 12:22 PM
Right then, bird shot, # 6 or 7.

I don't like this, but it's reality. The need is slight, but if the time came...

I don't have the weird paranoia so many in the culture do about guns. They are what they are. Learn to use them properly and all is well. They only go at what they are pointed at. Rule number one: never point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot.

Jack, when you talk about a crazed meth addict coming through your unlocked door,,and insist on having an unlocked door you are not dealing with reality.

Take what Philip has said to heart, he's speaking from self-knowledge.

I'm a chicken, not well suited to dispassionate and skilled violence. I could be trained but it would have taken a lot when I was young and too much now.
My short stints being around practitioners of martial arts and athletes with killer instincts has clued me into the difference between a guy "who looks big and tough" and a guy who can do violence without pause, skilled or unskilled. If you do not have that skill a gun won't make the difference. If you are disonnected from reality enough to have an unlocked door but fear meth crazed addicts a gun would decrease your safety. Especially if you're in the habit of consuming a depressant like alcohol and living in your head.
Just for fun why not practice your horrifying scenario, remove all the bullets from your house and get a toy gun, have a friend come in and pretend to do what you are expecting the shot gun to protect you from. You've got a few seconds to get the gun,,and the crazed meth addict is standing over you drawing butterflies on your face with a felt pen.
Get real Jack, how fast can you move?

You dear Jack need a locked front door, good relations with neighbors or dog long before you need a shotgun.

Phillip Allen
05-05-2006, 12:29 PM
Most here know I spent 3 1/2 months in Florida recently...over 1000 miles away. My house has two large sliding doors in back, a front door and side door plus an upstairs patio door...not to mention all the windows. Two days ago I noticed one of my sliding doors was unlocked...had been since before Christmas when I left!

No one came in.

John of Phoenix
05-05-2006, 12:39 PM
You dear Jack need a locked front door, good relations with neighbors or dog long before you need a shotgun.

I'll second that notion.

BrianW
05-05-2006, 12:49 PM
Joe,

Some here might call me a gun nut, although I prefer the term 'rifle looney.' :) No loaded guns in my house, my door is locked at night though. My nightmare scenerio is a bear breaking in! :)

Phillip Allen
05-05-2006, 12:50 PM
As opposed to, what? ...a bare interlude?

Joe (SoCal)
05-05-2006, 01:44 PM
Meth crazed grizzly :D

PatCox
05-05-2006, 02:11 PM
This is the season, isn't it, when the crazed meth-heads migrate north to their sumer nesting grounds?

I saw a big, v-shaped flock of them silhouetted against the moon last night, I heard their far-off cries. Its one of those beautiful, mysterious, mystical happenings that puts one back in touch with life and the world. How do they know the way back to their labs hidden in the north woods? How do they know where to stop, at the same place each year, returning to the same homes to rob, the same pharmacies to buy sudafed. Do they navigate by the stars, or do they have some special sense that lets them touch the deep force lines of mother earth's power?

Jagermeister
05-05-2006, 02:24 PM
I got a catalogue the other day that was advertising surplus door breaching rounds. ... Let me know if you want me to check further. There might be a few shipment restrictions.If you are stupid enough to do that you WILL be arrested and convicted. If you do it and kill the guy it's murder. The bad guy MUST have broken INTO your house and you best not have shot him in the back.

Gary, just what is your freekin' problem? :mad: I offer to check into where Jack can get door breaching rounds and you are telling me I'm going to be arrested and convicted.

Door breaching rounds are designed to avoid overpentration. They fragment and return to dust, lessening the risk of going through walls and hitting others.

I never wrote a damn thing about shooting people in the back. :mad: Calling someone a back shooter is fighting words where I come from. :mad:

You are a real piece of work, Gary, and I mean that in the worst way.

Phillip Allen
05-05-2006, 02:32 PM
Uh...HOW 'BOUT THOSE CUBBIES...(easy cowboy...here let me buy ya a drink)...Hey bartender...set em up...

John of Phoenix
05-05-2006, 02:32 PM
Jagermeister:
You are a real piece of work, Gary, and I mean that in the worst way.

OH! NO! Not a personal insult!

Meerkat
05-05-2006, 02:36 PM
I don't think Ish would need anything as big as a door breaching round when he decides he's never going to be a great writer and decides he can at least emulate Hemingway in one thing... ;) :D :D :D

Phillip Allen
05-05-2006, 02:40 PM
He's almost shade, down by the river
feels a breeze that makes him shiver

takes a breath
and makes a dive alone

but the dead don't get no vacation
way down in that subway station

the only break they take
is to the bone

they's waitin on that train
to take em home

ishmael
05-05-2006, 02:46 PM
Thanks for the thread, most of you, and the offer, Jag. I may have to save this one.

Pat,

There is a more signifigant drugs problem with prescription opiates hereabouts, though the number of meth labs busted has increased signifigantly since I moved here five years ago. Increased violence too, which always haunts that scene.

I've never felt frightened here, though I have started locking my door more often. Someone who wants to get it will still get in. It's not like I have much to steal, but people hopped on coke or meth or what have you don't think straight. That story of the addled couple who, in a paranoid coke frenzy, took their two daughters out to the woods on a winter night was a reminder. Our drugs problem isn't as bad as other more citified parts of the country, but it's there.

I mostly want a shotgun just to have it. It seems to me to be the most versatile weapon there is. Shoot a duck, kill a deer, keep the wolves at bay.

Any comments on the Remington v. the Mossberg? My brother has the latter in stainless, and likes it. IIRC, the marinized Remington is electroplated with something. Advantages and disadvantages?

Gary E
05-05-2006, 02:47 PM
Gary, just what is your freekin' problem? :mad: I offer to check into where Jack can get door breaching rounds and you are telling me I'm going to be arrested and convicted.

Door breaching rounds are designed to avoid overpentration. They fragment and return to dust, lessening the risk of going through walls and hitting others.

I never wrote a damn thing about shooting people in the back. :mad: Calling someone a back shooter is fighting words where I come from. :mad:

You are a real piece of work, Gary, and I mean that in the worst way.

Hey JERK, ohh JAG..IF YOU injur the guy on the other side of the door, it's YOUR @SS going straight to JAIL... if you kill'em U aint getting OUT...

TRY IT some time...

IF the guy gets IN and is hit in the BACK, by YOU... YOU will be arrested...
Try that too, sm@rt @ss.

I dont know or give a D@m where you come from.

Meerkat
05-05-2006, 02:52 PM
Just get one that your big toe will fit through the trigger guard. ;)

TomF
05-05-2006, 02:53 PM
Just get one that your big toe will fit through the trigger guard. ;)Meer! :(

Gary E
05-05-2006, 02:53 PM
Gary, he thinks a door breaching round is one that doesn't go through the door.
Cut him some slack.


Maybe I should, but he never cut anyone else any...

John of Phoenix
05-05-2006, 02:59 PM
Door breaching ammunition warning-

The US DoD Door Breaching Round is lethal and extremely destructive. DO NOT fire directly at person(s), serious injury or death may result. Intended for use ONLY by qualified personnel properly trained in the specific use of door breaching techniques. This ammunition can cause contusions, abrasions, broken ribs, concussions, loss of eyes, superficial organ damage, serious skin lacerations, massive skull fractures, rupture of heart or kidney, fragmentation of the liver, hemorrhages, and death.

ishmael
05-05-2006, 03:04 PM
Gentlemen, let's all try to be.

I know the topic get's people wired up weird, but that's no reason to not be civil.

Seems to me shotguns are even legal in Britain, so they can't be all bad. LOL.

And, the last time I read up on home protection/invasion I seem to recall it did make a big difference if the bad guy was inside the door or not, in most locales. That makes sense to me. Until the guy has breached the sanctity of the castle there's no reason to shoot him.

Meerkat
05-05-2006, 03:10 PM
Gentlemen, let's all try to be.

Anyone who is not being should ask his/her surviving relatives to post info on the funeral. :D :D :D

Joe (SoCal)
05-05-2006, 03:14 PM
http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/doom3/deltalabs1/doom3-2004-09-13-04-59-44-0.jpg

Jagermeister
05-05-2006, 03:18 PM
From wikipedia:

A breaching round or Hatton cartridge, is a shotgun shell made for combat situations which is specially designed for the purposes of breaching doorways. It is typically fired at a range of 4-6 inches, aimed between the door knob and door jamb, destroying the locking mechanism.

Breaching rounds are designed to remove the hinges of doors without the risk of ricochet. These rounds comprise 12 gauge, semi-solid frangible slugs weighing 50 grams. Put simply the round is made up of compressed zinc powder or lead powder bound together with wax. When fired the full force of the round is delivered to the target, minimising the risk of injury to third parties behind the door being opened. Hinges are smashed from their fixings and damage is done to the surrounding woodwork. These rounds will penetrate vehicle tires, fire doors clad on both sides with metal plate, cell-type doors, 12 mm thick Makrolon and armored glass from a range of 1.5 meters. Hatton ammunition can only be used in Magnum shotguns with three inch chambers and unchoked barrels.

I never suggested shooting someone through the door. They are specifically designed not to injure someone on the other side of the door.

I suggested them because they are frangible and significantly lessen the chance of harming anyone outside the target area - i.e., they are safer than normal ammunition - not more lethal. Thus my original comment about the possibility of breaking a bone without penetrating the body of the assailant.

But instead of asking for more information about a subject of which people are apparently ignorant, certain people automatically assumed the worst about shooting people through doors, or shooting someone in the back.

What we have here is the narrow minded intolerant bigotry of some liberals automatically assuming the worst motives about someone who they perceive to be conservative. This is the type of B.S. conservatives put up with everyday, whether it is in public life or private. :mad:

Meerkat
05-05-2006, 03:21 PM
What we have here is the narrow minded intolerant bigotry of some liberals automatically assuming the worst motives about someone who they perceive to be conservative. This is the type of B.S. conservatives put up with everyday, whether it is in public life or private. What a bunch of hypocrites. :mad:

Yup - sometimes you have to let experience be your guide! :D

John of Phoenix
05-05-2006, 03:29 PM
HE'S ON A ROLL!

From the manufacturer of said door breaching amunition-

In a situation where someone is shooting at an officer and takes cover behind an interior partition wall (or residential type door), the officer may return fire through the wall or door with Polyshok I.R.P. ammunition.
If the I.R.P. round does not hit a stud or other solid interior wall structure, it can provide up to a two foot zone, just on the other side of this type of wall, that can produce incapacitating or potentially fatal wounds.

Medically supervised tests indicated the resulting wounds resembled blunt impact type wounds, more than conventional gunshot wounds, with substantial tissue and bone trauma. The medical team deemed them comparable to a heavy impact from a baseball bat or even a sledgehammer, and considered them incapacitating with a high potential of lethality.

Less lethal? A two foot zone on the OTHER side of the barrier? So much for "the possibility of breaking a bone without penetrating the body of the assailant."


"If you dufuses knew anything you would know that they are specifically designed not to injure someone on the other side of the door."
"But instead of asking for more information about a subject of which people are apparently ignorant, "

You know how it goes...

ishmael
05-05-2006, 03:30 PM
It's okay, Kevin. It draws ignorant fire just broaching a gun topic these days. People are afraid of what they don't understand.

Thanks for the idea for a round, and the information.

First thing is to get the gun, learn its ins and outs, shoot it. I can't afford to buy it outright, so I'll have to trade or sell my Ruger Single Six and SKS. That will be interesting, hopefully not too much trouble. I haven't gone to buy or sell a gun in over a decade. The paperwork, if it still survives, is hopelessly mired in the archives.

Cheers, and just ignore those who are uncivil.

Meerkat
05-05-2006, 03:33 PM
Poison would be cheaper and less messy. ;) :D

PatCox
05-05-2006, 03:36 PM
Oooh, look, its Jager all screechy and pissy again.

Meerkat
05-05-2006, 03:38 PM
Screechy and pissy cats ought to be fixed... ;)

John of Phoenix
05-05-2006, 03:43 PM
Oh Jager, you did see this in your own quote from Wikipedia, right?


These rounds will penetrate vehicle tires, fire doors clad on both sides with metal plate, cell-type doors, 12 mm thick Makrolon and armored glass from a range of 1.5 meters.

"If you dufuses knew anything you would know that they are specifically designed not to injure someone on the other side of the door."

Is that too acerbic? :D

Jagermeister
05-05-2006, 03:48 PM
John, the polyshock ammo is not what I know of as a door breaching round. It may be a new type of door breaching round, but it isn't anything like the ones I am familiar with. On a number of points:

1) The polyshock are only available to law enforcement. Standard door breaching rounds are legally available as surplus, as long as you don't live in a few restrictive communities such as NYC, etc.

2) The door breaching rounds I am familiar with are frangible projectiles made from compressed metal powder. The polyshock appear to be some sort of elastic-vicious material. The pictures look like it maintains integrity after penetration, although it appears to be "soft" in some way, since it deforms. These are not your "everyday" door breaching rounds, and weren't what I was referencing.

3) Any firearm projectile is dangerous, and I'm sure even door breaching rounds can be lethal on occasion even on the other side of a door. I was remarking on comparative safety in comparing them to standard shotgun ammo.

4) Lastly, I'm not an expert on door breaching rounds, just someone who was offering what was meant to be a helpful suggestion to someone on being safer with a shotgun in the house. I fail to see how you and GaryE have contributed in any meaningful way to the discussion other than dumping on someone who you dislike. You guys impugn my motives and impugn my knowledge. Well, I admitted to not being an expert, but I don't see you guys as offering expert advice, either. As for my motives .... :mad:

Jack - thanks for the kind words. I'm going to calm down and get back to work. If you want the catalogue someday for legalsurplus ammo just let me know.

John of Phoenix
05-05-2006, 03:59 PM
Thanks for trying to help Kevin. Keep your cool. I never said I dislike you. I think you're a fun guy, impugned or not.

I'm heading out for now, but I expect to be insulted just as soon as I get back. Bye bye, now.

Jagermeister
05-05-2006, 04:06 PM
Why I thought door breaching rounds are a good alternative.

SPECIALTY IMPACT MUNITIONS (http://www.leedway.com/Specialty%20Impact.pdf)
When properly deployed, the TKO is capable of defeating door lock mechanisms, door knobs, hinges, dead bolts, safety chains, and pad locks on both wooden or hollow core doors. Upon impact, the zinc slug disintegrates into a fine powder, eliminating additional fragmentation.

As regards:
These rounds will penetrate vehicle tires, fire doors clad on both sides with metal plate, cell-type doors, 12 mm thick Makrolon and armored glass from a range of 1.5 meters.

I wasn't thinking about what they penetrate - I was commenting on what they do after penetration. Since penetration destroys the projective, causing it to disintegrate into a fine powder, there is much less chance of it harming or killing someone on the other side of the door.

If I gave the impression that they were some how safe, I apologize, and retract that. As far as I know there is no such thing as a safe firearm projectile.

John - thank you. I think I need to find a 12-step program for Internet addiction.... :(

Chris Coose
05-05-2006, 04:08 PM
Sorry Jack but the image of a meth addict entering your trailer brings to mind the scene in Young Dr. frankenstein where Frankenstein enters and is welcomed by the blind hermit.

ishmael
05-05-2006, 04:12 PM
Your call, Chris. I don't remember that scene, but if my talk of a shotgun and crazy people reminds you of it, who am I to disagree?

I had an ongoing debate with my shrink about this. He was of the opinion that 99 times out of 100 it's best to not escalate to weapons. I came to agree with him. Chances are, if the bad guy has escalated to a loaded weapon it's too late. I noticed he kept a loaded shotgun to hand, just in case.

Joe (SoCal)
05-05-2006, 04:16 PM
Jack I would forget the 12 Gauge and instead give the 12 Steps a try ;)

LeeG
05-05-2006, 04:22 PM
This is the season, isn't it, when the crazed meth-heads migrate north to their sumer nesting grounds?

?

it's their light weight and reduced body mass that enables them to stay aloft...but the landings,,,yikes

LeeG
05-05-2006, 04:31 PM
Jack, how quick can you go from the toilet to your shot gun near the computer? Can you squeeze it off fast? When you're asleep after downing a few beers how's your reaction times compared to the crazed meth addict,,or maybe he's a crazed chocoholic when he's walked over to your computer and is impersonating you on WoodenBoat Forum?

I'd practice if I was you.

Memphis Mike
05-05-2006, 04:48 PM
Just get one that your big toe will fit through the trigger guard. ;)

What an asshole with a capitol A.:mad:

Just because you're sick doesn't give you the right to say anything you want to to people......asshole.:mad:

ishmael
05-05-2006, 05:01 PM
The nicest thing David has ever said to me. LOL.

Phillip Allen
05-05-2006, 05:25 PM
Here's my take on the fight:

Years ago a company was trying to come up with ammo for handguns which didn’t cause as much air born lead dust as conventional ammo. Whatever else they tried, they found a particular coating on the bullet worked best and sold it.

Some one else then bought some and with writing yet another magazine article in mind, tested it on a bunch of things and made a discovery. If it was fired at the bullet proof vest then available, it would penetrate.

The next person in line decided he would do another article on the new bullet covering. His article suggested the best use for the bullet was defeating armor of policemen. He called them “cop-killer bullets”.

In the meanwhile, the purpose for its invention has been lost because of the evil sounding name and it is proven once again…people judge books by their covers.

“Door breaching ammo” happens to be the cover of another book. If a name less forceful had been used there would not have been a fight today because someone wanted to pass judgment on something without reading for cntent.

brad9798
05-05-2006, 05:54 PM
ANY talk about a 12-guage for protection ... and someone that claims to not lock his door many nights is comical ... how 'bout lock the door and don't worry about the gun ... or keep the door unlocked, and by a 12 ... and shoot to kill ... seems inconsistent to me.

Tom Mac
05-05-2006, 06:28 PM
A dog, good sturdydog, Airdale would Just right. Sleep good of nights Tom Mac

brad9798
05-05-2006, 07:33 PM
I hear ya Donn ...

huisjen
05-05-2006, 07:45 PM
What kind of heat would Jung pack?

Jagermeister
05-05-2006, 07:48 PM
What kind of heat would Jung pack?


Didn't they make a movie about that? Jung Guns

ishmael
05-05-2006, 08:01 PM
Jung actually had interesting things to say about this. There's the whole issue of the shadow, the darkness in oneself, that makes a home invader an issue of fantasy.

But he also knew how real darkness can invade our lives, and the need to protect ourselves.

He once said that if god himself came down and told him to do murder, he would refuse. But kept a gun, for the odd chance.

It's strange some people think I'm not worthy of a gun. I don't know what has lended that notion. I'd trust me with a firearm more than I would 90% of the respondents here. I can't imagine doing simple murder. I can imagine killing someone who was about to kill me. Seems reasonable.

P.S. To answer Dan's question 'bout what heat Jung packed, approx a .38 English. Brokeback revolver.

Bob Cleek
05-05-2006, 08:03 PM
Sorry, I just came in, but, hey...do you really have to wait until a tweaker breaks into your house to shoot him? I'd like to see them legalize the stuff... it isn't like they are stopping it anyhow. At least the price would drop and they wouldn't have to rip people off to get it. With that done, we should also simply call open season on them. Anywhere, anytime, anyhow. You see a crank addict... kill on sight. Seriously. It's the only drug that really turns humans into animal vermin.

http://www.focusnewspaper.com/graphics/meth_addict.jpg

Sort of like those zombies in the "Night of the Living Dead!"

LeeG
05-05-2006, 09:24 PM
Jack, you "aren't worthy" of having a gun for self-defense if you don't have the brain cells to lock the door or get a dog. That darkness is between your ears. If you have zombies in your neighborhood maybe you should get wooden stakes or holy water.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
05-05-2006, 09:30 PM
So I says to the guy... Hey... You need to get a shopping cart for that armadillo... it's got a sprained ankle.... and then the Cattywumpous peed on the midget so he got ... intewwupted... bang bang...
twelve gauge.. mutter... grumble... snooooooooooreee... Wait... did raindrops love the flower tumbling down the hilly valley,,,,ooooooooohhh... I doan feel gud....... thump.... snooooooore.

ishmael
05-05-2006, 09:39 PM
Yeah, that's it man. Need a dog, I think, what's wrong with me for wanting a twelve gauge?

Pass the bong, Im getting too straight.

Just an interesting tool.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
05-05-2006, 09:50 PM
Get two twelve gauges... No wait three...:eek:

Build a pillbox on the front lawn..;).. criss cross the yard with laser alarm systems.... Put a retractable machine gun nest in the attic.... Mine the driveway with claymores.... Turn the mazda in to a small armored personnel carrier.....

Wrap flexible stainless plating around your testicles.... Develop copies of mediaeval armor made out of strange hybrid kevlar stuff:)

Chop off your arm and build a robotic prothesis that has it's own sentient intelligence, but is programmed not to attack you.:confused:

Breed genetically modified plant life in your garden that shoots seeds full of highly toxic venom that explodes in your neighbours faces.:p

Erect a giant two way radio to encourage aliens to protect your allegiance to them by wiping out the human RACE!!!!!!:eek:


or maybe get a dog.......................................woof!

Phillip Allen
05-05-2006, 09:57 PM
Peter, you're being an ass...stop it. It is wrong to take pleasure in the troubles of others. It demeans your character, it stifles communication and adds to the general problem...which makes you part of that problem…consider a better ambition.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
05-05-2006, 10:00 PM
Who's taking pleasure Philip?
I wouldn't bother if Jack wasn't one of the smartest people on this forum.

ishmael
05-05-2006, 10:00 PM
A shotgun is a perfectly reasonable tool. I hear they even allow them in Canada.

Why the exercise over it? I'd think our anti-gun people would be glad I'm moving from a pistol to a shotgun. But their minds are inscrutable.

Phillip Allen
05-05-2006, 10:03 PM
get the gun...it ain't the end of the world. If later you decide not to have one...sell it...it happens every day and is no big deal. ask at the shop where you can find someone to shoot clay birds with...learn a little and have a good time

paladin
05-05-2006, 10:56 PM
get a model 1100 remington, 3 inch chambers, drill a small hole in the left side of the reciever for a #8 machine screw, using a dime silver soldered to the screw file some of the threads off and a flat to partially block the sear when inserted and turned 90 degrees...add a magazine extension, load with 2 3/4 inch shells of OO buck.....when the dude enters the house yell Halt! three times in rapid succession then pull the trigger....
Now ya gotta hang on tight because that sucker will discharge 7-9 rounds so fast it will make your head swim.....
you will need a few rolls of 7 oz visqueen to plug all the holes in your house, but the meth head won't hurtcha.....

Phillip Allen
05-05-2006, 11:00 PM
Geeezzz, ease...if you please, that'll drive ya to your knees and knock the leaves off the trees

LeeG
05-05-2006, 11:02 PM
now that's some kind of Doomsday Device

Peter Page
05-06-2006, 01:51 AM
To that VC you were the home invader.

paladin
05-06-2006, 07:41 AM
yup...and no rathole was safe.....