am I crazy? / should I embark on a (hopefully not) long and dangerous quest

[sbsbw]

Ok, so i've watched, maybe even helped a little, a long boat being built.

The local highschool has a good shop, and the head guy is a boat fanitic. I know him well and we have often thought about trying to get a community project together to build a lapstrake gig (tradtional steamed frames, rivit contruction).

the shop is well tooled, and with our collective knowlage I think that we might just be able to pull it off. (niether of us actually have any sigificant experiance building any boats).

The Lake Champlain Basin museum has built a couple of these gigs, I and I have talked briefly with one of the head guys about it.

so my question. would we be insane to embark on a voyage such as this?

thanks

SBSBW

edited to add: I know that I am crazy, just I am biting off more then I can chew

[ 11-04-2004, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: sbsbw ]

[Dan McCosh]

Yes., but that has never stopped me.

[Paul Scheuer]

Go for it, but keep the kids (and us) involved.

[Bob Smalser]

(niether of us actually have any sigificant experiance building any boats). Might be a lot smarter for y'all to build a one-station skiff outta #2 pine, first.

Make your initial mistakes there and have something quicker and cheaper to play with while you loft and build the more sophisticated gig.

[Jack Heinlen]

I was gonna say perhaps a "Yankee Tender" (WB catalogue) or a "Susan Skiff" (see Rockport Apprenticeshop), or something similar, to build some skills.

It's definately doable, but getting some of the basics down will save you time and expense in the long run. You could be lofting the gig while the small boat went together.

2 cents.

[Leon m]

Reminds me of a story in a Marlin Bree book
(Call of the North Wind),chapter four "The Long
Voyage of the Homecoming Ship".Its about a junior
high teacher living on Lake Superior ,who wants
to build a Viking Longboat and sail it from
Superior to Norway.Does he build the boat? Do they
sail it to Norway ?Well I wont give it away...
but it is a true story...and no your not crazy.

[Ian McColgin]

Check out the Atlantic Challenge - http://www.atlanticchallenge.org/ - for a great approach that lets the project live marvelously past the building. You really can't do better.

[Keith Wilson]

Not insane at all, although building a smaller easier and cheaper boat for practice first wouldn't be a bad idea.

A pilot gig is not that hard a boat to build; it's just long. It's not really harder than any small traditional lapstrake open boat. It's no harder to set up a long building mold than a short one. You'll need long planking stock, but you can scarf-join them with epoxy. You'll need lots of steamed frames, but once you have the steambox set up, doing 50 isn't any harder then doing 10; it just takes longer. You'll need lots and lots and lots of rivets, but doing 1000 isn't any harder than doing 100; again, it just takes longer. It even has the advantage that after the first 100 you'll get pretty good at it, so the rest of them will go quicker. You might look at a pneumatic palm nailer for peening the rivets.

You might consider building it in epoxy-glued plywood lapstrake, but traditional construction has its points too.

[ 11-05-2004, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[sbsbw]

I do not want to deal with epoxy

[Bruce Hooke]

Having the same thing to do many times over actually sounds like a good thing when we're talking about a community project!

[flatbottom]

LCMM has sponsored this project with a few schools over the years have you asked them about it?
http://www.lcmm.org/site/harbor/learning_adv/youth_boatbuilding/champlain_longboats2.html

http://www.lcmm.org/images/img_harbor/img_learning_adv/img_youth_boatbuilding/champ_longboat_2.jpg

[Bob Smalser]

Originally posted by sbsbw:
I do not want to deal with epoxyThat makes the smaller, simpler practice skiff even more important.

Even many advanced furniture makers aren't fully prepared for the (surprising) number of very different skills involved in fitting bent wood togther.

Visualizing complex shapes in 3 dimensions, getting them out from a 2-dimensional lofting using preciously expensive hunks of wood, fitting a 18' curving joint together tightly, scribe fitting and/or hand trimming almost every joint, driving thousands more fasteners with vastly greater precision and sensitivity than required for furniture...the list goes on and on.

For experienced cabinet makers, there's also an additional head game to contend with. Things that are square that might take you three hours in cabinetry may take you three full days in a boat...with attendant pressure to rush the fit.

All in all, something like a small, flat bottomed skiff of inexpensive pine, ring shank galvanized nails and floor and deck paint would be a quick, satisfying introduction. For a greater challenge, you could add some framing, rocker and carvel the bottom rather than cross plank, or make other changes for a better training experience. But I'd recommend just making the basic skiff to a high standard of fit.

[sbsbw]

Here is my idea,

First we do not have the space inside the shop to build a 32 foot boat. We would rent a shipping container and use it to build the boat in.

the container would be parked directly adjacent to the shop and a steam box would be installed within the container.

All major wood-working would be done within the shop, and move out to the container.

A class would be created to build the boat. And community work times would be scheduled. Because we are trying to get community and school involvement I think that the Pilot Gig would be a good choice.

I think that we would have the most difficulty with lofting. But that can be got over, there are several good books on this subject. I have several sources of would that would be relatively inexpensive.

Rivets are fairly easy once the people are taught how to peen. All the actual wood working stuff is pretty self explanatory, at least from what I have seen.

I think that the smaller boat would be a good idea of this was not supposed to be a community project.

SBSBW

[Bob Smalser]

Lofting an open boat is straight forward enough....you just need a huge, dead-flat flat expanse of white-painted plywood to do it. I've done that outside before where there wasn't space inside...no fun at all out there on your knees in the rain and snow, but it's doable using waterproof ink and tarps to protect from the sun over time.

Loft in two dimensions to the inside face of your planking so you can get out your backbone and any molds first and leave plenty of space elsewhere on the sheets to solve special problems with additional lofting. A box of a dozen ice picks from a restaurant supply and a few long, scarfed battens got out of clear, dead-straight airdried spruce or cedar will help. Others here loft long lengths regularly and may have more/better guidance on sectioning your lofting to best utilize space.

I've never lofted 32' before but I suspect I'd also want a couple full-length battens for accuracy. They store well outdoors under roof eaves if you build a suitable rack, as I don't like them to get too dry.


All the actual wood working stuff is pretty self explanatory, at least from what I have seen. Y'all are the best judges of your own technical proficiency, but I suspect few attempt a 32', 8-oar gig as a first project.

For a shelter, you'll need another 6-8 feet at each end minimum. A container will be unpleasant and expensive (moving the honkers costs). An alternative if your HS has security is two of those 150-dollar, 20' Costco carport tents end to end with a tarp sealing the joint. Wing the sides of the tents out on poles and stakes and you have a pleasant outdoor work space.

[ 11-06-2004, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Paul Scheuer]

Just a thought on building spaces. You could probably find a semi trailer on its last legs that would serve as a shop extension. A lot less expensive than a shipping container, maybe even a donation.

[Jack Heinlen]

I think that the smaller boat would be a good idea of this was not supposed to be a community project.
The small boat is a way for you and your friend to begin to know what you're doing on the gig. Without knowing a bit you'll be much more hesitant to set the 'community' to work. It's a primer. Trust me, it will save time, money and frustration. I wouldn't launch, cold, into building a gig until I'd got some boatbuilding under my belt.

Lofting is a bit of a challenge, but you'll find it rewarding in many ways. As Bob says, getting battens for it together might involve your first scarfs, and examining stock. Gardner is a good place to look for info.

It's an exciting project. It will take a certain vision and drive to see it through. I wish you all the best with it. Keep us posted.