Alternative Passover Haggadahs

[Norman Bernstein]

So, I'm doing my usual thing, the day before Passover: doing a bit of research, putting together my materials, to lead the Pesach (Passover) celebration tomorrow night....

Only, I forgot my haggadah collection when I came to the office. The Haggadah is a prayer book of sorts: it is the 'guide', if you will, to the rather detailed and strict traditional order of the 'service' at the Passover table. Haggadahs are ancient, but most Jews would recognize one written in the 12th century... if they could read Hebrew, that is. Modern haggadahs are often distributed free by the companies that make a lot of money at this time of year, like Manischewitz, etc.... and can also be purchased.

Passover is a holiday with a LOT of symbolism; everything you'll find on the table is symbolic of something or other....

... which matters, in my household, because we have a tradition of inviting quite a few Christians to our Passover celebration... for the most part, friends of our daughters, as well as our own friends. The objective is to conduct a decidedly Jewish Passover, but one which concentrates on explaining the symbolism, rather than the prayers. We do not follow any one specific Haggadah, but I concoct a 'service' which is really an observance of tradition and explanation of same.

So, what else to do but pop onto the Internet and google up a Haggadah or two for reference... and what do I find?

'Alternative' Haggadahs.

There's the 'gay and lesbian' Haggadah...

The 'justice for Palestinians' Haggadah....

The 'Christian/Jewish' Haggadah....

The 'Jews for Jesus' Haggadah.....

along with a few right wing versions, as well.

Whethere one subscribes to the notion of 'flexible ethics and morality' is not really my point here... I think the ONLY reason a felt a faint bit of offense at all of this is the notion that the 2,000 year old tradition would be cannon fodder for political/social revisionism.

I'm not in the least bit religious... just a person who pays a bit of tribute to tradition. These 'alternative' Haggadahs seemed somehow to cross the line.

[Meerkat]

Wonder what all the "old testamentites" thought about the "new testamentites? ;)

Change is life.

Stagnation is death.

[Bob Cleek]

Norm, "concentrate on the prayers," too. They are inextricably connected to the "tradition." I wish that more Jews invited their Christian friends to their seders. Fact is, this year this Thursday is "Holy Thursday," commemorating the Last Supper, which was a seder. It is the first day of the "Triduum," the commemoration of Christ's passion and death, ending Easter Sunday. This year the Passover happens to fall a day short of Holy Thursday, the Hebrew and Gregorian calendars happening by chance to fall concurrently. It really isn't possible for a Christian to fully appreciate the Last Supper or the Mass without a good understanding of the celebration of Passover. The symbols and many of the prayers are the same. Christians too often forget their Jewish roots!

[Norman Bernstein]

Norm, "concentrate on the prayers," too.

I don't think so... that's the very LAST thing I'd want to do... I AM, after all, an agnostic.

The prayers mean absolutely nothing to me... the traditions and the ceremony do have some meaning, though... a connection to my childhood, for one thing, a rememberance of how my ancestors and relatives celebrated, etc. The chicken soup with matzoh balls, hiding the 'afikomen', listening to the youngest child recite the 'fear kashes' (four questions), and so on. That is the part of the essence of Jewishness I can identify with...

...certainly NOT the prayers.

[Popeye]

still got that Methuselah rookie card ?

[TomF]

To whom or what might an agnostic pray? An atheist would scoff at the idea ... but an agnostic is, by definition, unsure.

Presumably, to the spirit giving life and meaning to those memories and traditions you mention, Norm. Not the God you were taught, who you see looming ridiculous and irrelevant in the seder's prayers.

Many of us believers have little time for such a hobbled God either.

[Popeye]

from another thread ..

They are ill discoverers, who, seeing only sea, conclude there is no land.

i like that one:)

[Norman Bernstein]

To whom or what might an agnostic pray? An atheist would scoff at the idea ... but an agnostic is, by definition, unsure.

Presumably, to the spirit giving life and meaning to those memories and traditions you mention, Norm. Not the God you were taught, who you see looming ridiculous and irrelevant in the seder's prayers.

Many of us believers have little time for such a hobbled God either.

That sums it up pretty well, for me, TomF.

The 'God' that I can, by way of conjecture, contemplate as possibly existing certainly wouldn't be interested in my praise or pleas... both of which are human traits, not 'godly' ones. This very same 'God' wouldn't logically care a whit for whether I did or did not eat a piece of the afikomen as the very last thing that touched my lips that night... he's not likely to be sending the prophet Elijah to drink the cup of wine we always pour for him, every Passover... and doesn't care if I don't recline to my left at a certain point in the service, as the Orthodox Jews might demand.

We hold the seder for ourselves, not for God.

[Bruce Hooke]

I have been invited to my first Passover Seder by a friend who often invites non-Jews to her Seders. I am looking forward to it!

[Lew Barrett]

Norm,
I agree with you completely about the revisionist Haggadahs. I have no religious identification of myself as a Jew whatsoever. Messing with the Haggadah, which is probably the most universal and egalitarian aspect of the
whole tradition is a befuddled concept.

Meer: the book has been translated into virtually all the languages of the earth and re-published and "re-languaged" for popular consumption over time. The Passover seder and it's celebration is about tradition. That is what defines it. I suspect that per Norm's reports, most efforts behind revising it are not motivated by Jews and are simply cheap shots. To paraphrase Lyle Lovett, "I can see you're not from Brooklyn.":D

Bruce: beware the matzohs. They're binding if done in quantity. At a traditional seder, quantities of matzoh will be unavoidable :eek: :D
Lew

[Meerkat]

Lew; The first Passover wouldn't have been about tradition, would it? Traditions are practices hallowed by time, but they have to start somewhere, thus the gay, and other, Haggadahs. (Must admit some of the ones Norm mentioned do sound contrived tough.)

[Lew Barrett]

Dave,
The first seder would have celebrated the Passover literally, which was an event (if you buy into it or not is another question entirely), not a dinner. So yes, I guess the first seder was an invention in a manner of speaking. The second seder would have been a reiteration of the first (actually, there's more than one seder per season as the holiday begins, continues and ends with seders; my family only held one) but beyond the changes in time, costume, and language, the ritual has likely remained more or less intact for millenia. As a very well read guy, you're aware that the Last Supper, at the time, would hardly have been the First Passover.
Anyway my point isn't that the seder hasn't changed at all, but it certainly has survived intact and recognizably to Jews of all ages and places. There's no reason to believe that the seder that Norm's family will prepare will be terribly different in form or content that those celebrated in the desert thousands of years ago. Really...this is what happens when one is heir to a 5000 year old tradition. It's hard to fathom how anything can be so ancient and yet remain relevant, but there you have it. Politicising Passover seems mean spirited to me; it's a celebration of freedom with a clear meaning. Perhaps Jews and Israelis might take more away from it than they do in these days of strife and turmoil, but I think, perhaps with some bias, but with sincerity, that the celebration itself is about as pure as it gets in an organized western religion.
Bring Kip by for some matzoh...soon:D
Lew



Lew; The first Passover wouldn't have been about tradition, would it? Traditions are practices hallowed by time, but they have to start somewhere, thus the gay, and other, Haggadahs. (Must admit some of the ones Norm mentioned do sound contrived tough.)

[Meerkat]

I do see your point.

It seems to me that religion has been politicized and politics "religicised", back and forth, for a very long time.

My point about the alternate forms was not to disparage the original, but more to suggest that different groups will want to have a celebration with their own focus.

[Lew Barrett]

And that's why we love you.....

Let them call it something else....and leave us non-Jewish Jews to our remaining semblance of dignity! :D :D

Hey, something I observe about being born Jewish is that one can deny to the hills that one is really Jewish, but the rest of the world...including the Jews.... will always say; "heh...he's Jewish." So if I'm to be tarred with a brush I didn't ask for, never wanted, and don't believe in, at least let it be the same brush that tarred my forebearers, if you get my drift. I have a few "rescue" Haggadahs at home. Back a few years Lindy rescued some "Jewish stuff" at yard sales so we could use it to give our kids a hint of their tradition. They're gonna be called Jews no matter what; she figured they might as well know a bit about it. Take a gander and decide for yourself if the Haggadah needs much improvement. I've been meaning to call you anyway.....
Lew

[Meerkat]

I'd be very interested to read!

I would have thought you were more a member of the bear family ;) ( <- note wink! )

[Bob Cleek]

Who am I to tell you? I myself doubt that God commanded his people to commemorate the Passover becauses he enjoys hearing people pray to him. I strongly suspect that God commanded his people to commemorate the Passover for their own good, so that they would always remember who they are and that they are particularly favored in his eyes. Don't do it for God. Do it for yourself!

BTW, as an agnostic Jew, does that mean that you're part of the longest running hoax in human history? I don't think so!

[TomF]

Blessings as you celebrate Passover, in whatever way you choose. Frankly, I like the tradition of setting a place for Elijah, and might just do that at home tonight. It will get my kids asking questions.

Almost 20 years ago, our conservative rabbi professor invited our whole class (we were studying Torah with him) to a seder he hosted. Fond memories both of rabbi Cohen, and his hospitality.

t.

[Dale R. Hamilton]

Norm I don't understand you. Don't understand how the ritual can be genuinely practiced without the significance and the prayer. It would seem somehow disingenuinuous for me as a Christian to celebrate Easter week and its attendant ritual without the prayer that goes with it. Understand I appreciate you being an agnostic, and perhaps you are doing all this for the sake of the kids- who maybe have not made up their minds yet about religion.

[Lew Barrett]

Thanks Tom and to you too.
I remember Pesach as a large family affair; as the youngest male present I always got to ask the four questions. Now, years later, I am still the youngest male present. I have a family of three daughters and my wife here on the west coast while those that remain are back east. It's always been a family affair for us.
Maybe it's easiest to explain this celebration by analog. Christians universally celebrate Christmas as a family event apart from the religious implications and so it is for Jews and Passover. It's a family and cultural event as much as a religious one.
Through the ages, the oppressor doesn't care if it is the believer or the non-believer who hauls the blocks up the slope as long as the pyramid gets built. All suffer equally under the yoke and equally benefit from liberation. So a holiday that is universal was born and has had endurance through ages. A story worth retelling. The innocent triumph, evil is made to pay. Dayanu!

Anyway, as I said, you can never deny your heritage.
Lew

[Vince Brennan]

'Ha Zissen Pesach, y'all...

(Watch out for the Zebra meat at Bob Cohen's!)

Years ago I attended a convert's first First Seder... she'd spent three months planning it, getting all the rituals down in her head, making sure she knew EXACTLY how everything was to be prepared, inviting her husband's oldest friend (a well-know Rabbi - thankfully Reform) and several others, including "The Goy" (me)....

Until she brought out the gefilte fish on one of her family's heirloom oyster platters, I thought it was gonna work.

The look of confusion on her face was priceless but - thanks to the company at the table and their loving attitude - VERY short-lived and the evening was a great success.

THAT'S what these celebrations are really about for me... love, family, community.

So Happy Easter, a Sweet Passover and a belated Reflective Ramadan.

[Meerkat]

So, what was wrong with the gefilte fish?

[Bob Cleek]

Nothing was wrong with the fish, Meer. It was the platter.... Oysters is traef! (Or however it's spelled.) The platter that held the shellfish that would not have been eaten by strictly Orthodox Jews would have contaminated anything else put in it. (Three sets of dishes, meat, milk, and Passover...) Sort of like serving your guests soup in the dog's bowl.... only worse!

[Meerkat]

Ah, right! :)

[Lew Barrett]

Bob, I'm impressed! Truly! I know this stuff, but that would be expected.The unexpected is always the greatest pleasure....
Lew

[Meerkat]

When I was a teenager, I had a jewish friend. The two things I recall about him was his impressive (to a naive teenager) collection of ... um... "picture books", mostly Nudist magazines, and his family's kitchen. I noticed the two sets of dishes, one banded in blue and the other in red, and the towels likewise.

He explained what it was for and I was both interested and thought it strange. I like Beef Stroganof, wich is likewise traef! (seething the kid in the mother's milk) ;)

[Norman Bernstein]

Norm I don't understand you. Don't understand how the ritual can be genuinely practiced without the significance and the prayer. It would seem somehow disingenuinuous for me as a Christian to celebrate Easter week and its attendant ritual without the prayer that goes with it. Understand I appreciate you being an agnostic, and perhaps you are doing all this for the sake of the kids- who maybe have not made up their minds yet about religion.

It's not so hard to understand, Dale. Why can't I have an appreciation for the cuture and traditions of my heritage, without having to be a 'believer' in the faith itself?

I don't do this for my children. My daughters are in their early 20's, went to religious school as kids, had a reasonably full introduction to the 'religion', and are old enough to decide for themselves. Like me, they are not religious... but if we failed to have a Passover seder, they'd be terribly dissapointed... in fact, my younger one, who is working in D.C. and could not be with us last night, simply had to call during the seder just to 'connect' with us and share the spirit, even if she couldn't be there.

[Chris Coose]

Had a nice crew over to the house last night.
Most of the Jews there were lapsed, siting past problems at their synagogs.
There was an older boy who helped us through as he is preparing for a bar mitzva.
I had a swell time as long as I remained in the spirit of the moment and as individuals spoke of the relation of the text to their spiritual existance and experience. Otherwise, I don't have much to do with the messengers (churches, synagogs etc.) or the message (the OT).

I'm going to stay away from risen bread for the 8 days, just because it is good for my health.