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WX
03-21-2006, 02:26 AM
This would indicate that faster than light speed is possible.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200603/s1593995.htm

ingo
03-21-2006, 03:35 AM
You think that the inflation of the universe can be called "faster than light"? Oh, I get headaches by thinking of that. The definition of speed is somehow that something moves in space, not that the space itself expands. And then we have still the problem that the time itself was created at the same "moment".

WX
03-21-2006, 04:13 AM
Okay, given that in the beginning there was nothing, and it exploded...I don't think it is humanly possible imagine something without volume, let alone time.
So unless we are talking about not there and suddenly being there...instantaneously, then it must of had a starting point.If it had a starting point then the expansion would be measurable, if only we knew how. Maybe we are talking about an improbability drive, that passes though all points of space at the same time.

PeterSibley
03-21-2006, 04:32 AM
Ahhh! I know about improbablity drive !! :rolleyes:

ingo
03-21-2006, 05:02 AM
I know it's hard to imagine how there is nothing and then something. And especially to accept that there is no "before the big bang" and no "outside the universe". It can not be compared to an ordinary explosion that can be viewed from outside...

Art Read
03-22-2006, 03:30 AM
So... What was "there" before the big bang? Sleep well.

George Roberts
03-22-2006, 09:31 AM
Science News indicates that the initial inflation was grapefruit sized after a trillionth of a second.

Light travels about 1' in a nanosecond. At best 300 times faster than hte speed of light.

I expect that there may be a lot of error in the estimate.

Uncle Duke
03-22-2006, 10:24 AM
What is it that the universe is expanding into ?

cs
03-22-2006, 10:28 AM
I have a hard time grasping the concept of infinity. Maybe that is why calculus was tougher than trig.

If our universe is not infinite and you can imagine it being in a box, what is outside the box? If we are part of bigger collective of boxes in a wharehouse, what is outside the wharehouse?

If time goes on forever and started at the begining of time, what was there before time? What will there be after the end of time?

If the chicken came first, what created the chicken? If the egg came first what created the egg?

Chad

Mrleft8
03-22-2006, 10:40 AM
The real question is: "What's the speed of dark?" Light is merely the absence of dark...

ingo
03-22-2006, 10:45 AM
Oh my god! "speed of dark" sounds like a political concept but is worth nothing in physics.

It's hard to think in 4 or more dimensions. Most people that i know have already problems with 3 dimensions ;)

Mrleft8
03-22-2006, 10:59 AM
You need an object, a source as it were, for light. With no source, there is dark.

ingo
03-22-2006, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by Mrleft8:
You need an object, a source as it were, for light. With no source, there is dark.You need no source, you need photons. You definitely need no "object" to create photons, some of them exist since the start of the universe.

ishmael
03-22-2006, 11:13 AM
Who was it said, "The Universe is not only weirder than we imagine, it is weirder that we CAN imagine" ? A British cosmologist.

I'm on his side, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't keep plugging.

[ 03-22-2006, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

ingo
03-22-2006, 12:02 PM
Yes, that is true. But we are able to calculate it. This is a totally other level of imagination and can't be compared to the "normal" level. At the moment there is no need to believe that we are not able to calculate it. Don't forget: We are not in the dark but moving forward in insight. We do know more from year to year. There are some borders but they are vanishing.

Popeye
03-22-2006, 01:37 PM
mankind has yearned to know what is outside the wharehouse

[ 03-22-2006, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: popeye ]

geeman
03-22-2006, 04:24 PM
So, if you passed gas in deep puter space,,does it still make noise?

Stiletto
03-22-2006, 05:09 PM
Only if someone is there to hear it and there is an atmosphere to transmit that sound. :eek:

[ 03-22-2006, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: Stiletto ]

John E Hardiman
03-22-2006, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by Stiletto:
Only if someone is there to hear it and there is an atmosphere to transmit that sound. :eek: Actaully, the gas released itself propagates the pressure wave so you don't need an atmosphere but you might need sensitive instruments to measure the "sound". Spherical spreading ya' know!

[ 03-22-2006, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: John E Hardiman ]

Mrleft8
03-22-2006, 09:39 PM
"Photons" are an object.