PDA

View Full Version : The Danes apologize. The Germans & French fuel the fires.



cedar savage
01-30-2006, 01:48 PM
The storm just keeps growing in intensity hour by hour. Apparently a Danish newspaper published a cartoon with a caricature of the Prophet Mohammed. Published last September.

Can anybody find any links to the offensive cartoon?

All you Norwegian types in Minnesota better watch out, because Norwegians are also on the sh!t list for reprinting the cartoon.

Wow, who would think the Danes could stir them up like this. Boycotts, bombs, closed embassies, hostage taking, warnings, threats, counterthreats.

[ 02-01-2006, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: cedar savage ]

Bruce Taylor
01-30-2006, 02:01 PM
These?

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/698

Victor
01-30-2006, 02:44 PM
Islam must be the only religion on earth with no sense of humor at all.

ingo
01-30-2006, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Victor:
Islam must be the only religion on earth with no sense of humor at all.Hmm, I suppose every religion has its toboos where jokes are improper.

For example (sorry for mistranslations):
A catholic and a protestant priest live in a village in Austria. The catholic want to make holiday and ask the protestant "Can't you take care of my church why I am away?". The protestand: "Sorry, but I do not know exactly about your rituals like confession..." The catholic: "No problem, I make you a list: Sins, how many Lord's prayer, how many rosarys and how many Ave Maria..."
Fist evening: The first believer: "Father, I have stolen something!". The protestant looks in his list "Ok, that's three Lord's prayer, twi rosarys and five Ave Maria"
...
The third: "Father, I had anal sex". The priest: "anal sex, anal sex, **** , not on the list. WAIT A MOMENT!". he goes to the altar boy and asks him "Sorry, what gives the father for analy sex?" Him: "Normally a Snickers or a Twix..."

I tried this joke at a meeting with some catholics and they did not laugh at all...

Wild Wassa
01-30-2006, 03:55 PM
I am laughing heaps ... but you have just reignited the reformation brother with you lack of religious sensitivity. It is about time that we who have the 'real religion', sort you wayward Lutherans out ... we had our chance 500 years ago, a bit like the first Gulf War.

I'll say three Holly Mollys for you sinner but you need to do the Hairy Marys yourself, OK. I try hard to get religion right but I become truly dyslexic when I'm discussing opiates.

Warren.

BrianW
01-30-2006, 05:05 PM
"Normally a Snickers or a Twix...":D

Meerkat
01-30-2006, 08:52 PM
http://64.246.44.90/cartoons/Mohammed-drawings-newspaper1.jpg

Oh dear! Have the suicide bombers been told? :eek:

Steve Paskey
01-30-2006, 09:46 PM
Islam must be the only religion on earth with no sense of humor at all. Last time I heard, the Catholics burned thousands of "heretics" at the stake. If irreverent cartoons about the Pope had been published in those days, I have no doubt that good Catholics would have murdered the cartoonists.

George Jung
01-30-2006, 09:52 PM
"Those days"? You mean now? If so, you need to get out more... :D

Stiletto
01-31-2006, 09:47 PM
http://www.geocities.com/cowtipper85/a8-jesussaves4.gif

Offence? Defence surely.

Matt J.
01-31-2006, 10:05 PM
Seems to me, the imams and their followers ought to go back where they came from... :rolleyes:

Just because they may have the right to move wherever they want, that doesn't mean the people there are obliged to walk on eggshells or bite thier tongues.

Keith Wilson
02-01-2006, 12:04 AM
THOSE are what got 'em so riled up? Lord amighty, we get harsher criticism of five religions, four philosphies, and all political parties on a slow Tuesday afternoon in the bilge! This is the Enlightened West where people say whatever the h*ll they want, fellows; if you're going to live here, better lighten up and get used to being made fun of! The one with the black bar over his eyes is pretty funny.

[ 02-01-2006, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

cedar savage
02-01-2006, 11:18 AM
I edited the title to reflect the ongoing insanity.

Syria withdraws their ambassador to Denmark. The Danish paper apologizes. The storm of protest grows anyway.

Not content with being left out of the frenzy created in the Islamic communities around the world, French and German newspapers reprint the cartoons.

Engulfing conflagration anyone? The last Crusade?

uncas
02-01-2006, 11:50 AM
Rushdi...you can come out of hiding now...You are way down the list...a bunch of cartoonists have taken up the pen...and you are now safe....

John of Phoenix
02-01-2006, 01:15 PM
Islamic art doesn't often depict pictures of people. In fact, it’s not big on plants and animals either. It’s considered idolatry – graven images and all that. So if pictures of people and animals are taboo, a picture (and a CARTOON for crying out loud) of Mr. Big is blasphemy of the worst kind.

If it happened in Saudi, Iran or similar it would be off to the soccer field and off with his head. This was in Denmark but it seems some Muslims are not subscribers to the “When in Rome…” philosophy.

“Snickers or a Twix” Good one. :D

Garrett Lowell
02-01-2006, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by Stiletto:
http://www.geocities.com/cowtipper85/a8-jesussaves4.gif

Offence? Defence surely.He's better at basketball.

http://www.313merch.com/big_images/jesus_saves_big.gif

[ 02-01-2006, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: Garrett Lowell ]

Osborne Russel
02-01-2006, 01:20 PM
That's why US invasion of Iraq was a bad idea. Fundamentalist Islam (all fundamentalist middle eastern monotheism) and democracy are antithetical. The only way to establish and defend democracy in the middle east or anywhere is to crush the fundamentalists. But for PR reasons we can't say that. We have to invent a war on "terrorism" and pretend to fight that war instead of the real one. This confuses the ones whose support we need.

Stiletto
02-01-2006, 08:23 PM
I wonder if the Christian fundamentalists in the south need to be crushed to ensure democracy.

Paul Pless
02-01-2006, 08:36 PM
Stiletto,

You guys have Christian fundamentalists in your south as well? Weird, maybe its something in the water.

Paul

Meerkat
02-01-2006, 08:58 PM
It's the fried pickles! ;)

martin schulz
02-02-2006, 03:41 AM
Originally posted by John Teetsel:
Islamic art doesn't often depict pictures of people. In fact, it’s not big on plants and animals either. It’s considered idolatry – graven images and all that.http://www.k-faktor.com/bild/fotos/khomeini-3.jpg

Bunch of hypocrites. As in christian belief it is considered taboo to idolize and to have "other gods" beside the ONE.

skuthorp
02-02-2006, 06:30 AM
As it was in 15th century europe it's about control. political and temporal power and control. Nothing to do with anybodys god. Given the chance I bet the political administrators of christianity would re-institute eclesiastical law and the inquisition because it would give the CONTROL.
That's why education is so important. Ignorance and fear are eventually blown away by education. 'Course it may take another 500 years......

George.
02-02-2006, 07:47 AM
I am trying to goad the Muhammed freaks into sending a suicide bomber to blow up the bilge. But for some reason, I can't repost the cartoons. It comes out as a red x, like 'Kat's post.

What's up?

Garrett Lowell
02-02-2006, 08:19 AM
That website is blocking your attempt to link directly to the picture.

George.
02-02-2006, 08:38 AM
Google Image - more powerful than the will of Allah! :D

http://www.uriasposten.net/pics/JP-011005-Muhammed-Westerga.jpg

http://www.geertwilders.nl/images/stories/M1.jpg

http://www.geertwilders.nl/images/stories/m9.jpg

George.
02-02-2006, 08:41 AM
Fundies have to be the stupidest subsect of human beings - worse than modern Marxists. If they had kept their mouth shut, those cartoons would have been seen only by readers of one Danish newspaper, and would be forgotten by now.

Instead, the whole world gets to see them. Serves them right. tongue.gif

cedar savage
02-02-2006, 10:07 AM
Oh my God! One of the artists is a Westergaard. I'm related somehow to some Westergaard's somewhere in Iowa!

George. is now bringing the wrath of the faithful of the Prophet down on the bilge!

I really hope this doesn't end in an Islamic boycott against woodenboats.

George.
02-02-2006, 11:15 AM
I hope not - wouldn't want them to give up on these:

http://www.ms-starship.com/journal/oct00/images/dhow-md34P54107.jpg

uncas
02-02-2006, 11:17 AM
My home is my castle and my castle is a wooden boat...
Go ahead...just try....boarding....uninvited... :mad:

Osborne Russel
02-02-2006, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by Stiletto:
I wonder if the Christian fundamentalists in the south need to be crushed to ensure democracy.It's been done. Eisenhower sent the 82d Airborne to Little Rock, Arkansas.

Sea Frog
02-02-2006, 12:51 PM
Hard to please them Neocons, once Europe is soft on Islam, next it's the other way round, salami or cod on alternate Fridays, I'm confused.

uncas
02-02-2006, 12:54 PM
We are running out of Cod...that narrows the choice down.. :D

George.
02-02-2006, 01:14 PM
In continuing protests, Palestinian gunmen shut the European Union office Thursday in Gaza City, writing on the door that the office would remain closed until the Europeans apologize to Muslims, Palestinian security sources told CNN.

Suggested response: leave the office closed, and send no money, until they beg the EU to come back.

uncas
02-02-2006, 01:17 PM
George...perhaps a good plan but the EU is not going to stop funding...yesterday's news...which being news on the TV may be wrong...but it is all I have.

Sea Frog
02-02-2006, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by uncas:
We are running out of Cod...that narrows the choice down.. :D And remaining cods yet have to see the half-shaved faces of semi-converted St-Pierrais and Canadians scuba-diving around Newfoundland, better brace for the shock...

Sea Frog
02-02-2006, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by George.:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />In continuing protests, Palestinian gunmen shut the European Union office Thursday in Gaza City, writing on the door that the office would remain closed until the Europeans apologize to Muslims, Palestinian security sources told CNN.

Suggested response: leave the office closed, and send no money, until they beg the EU to come back.</font>[/QUOTE]Looks like they've just kidnapped a German citizen, I guess they'll ask for apologies now.
German, Italian or French papers just did their informing job showing the Danish sketches and can hardly be blamed.
That's what happens when you put down the Fatah, hold their leader at gunpoint in his own HQ so he doesn't get in the way of Hamas and finally dies...Fine job, Ariel!

lagspiller
02-02-2006, 02:51 PM
Not just Danish, but also Norwegian (they even took the Swedes along for the ride yesterday, but apparently that misunderstanding has been cleared up). It is starting to look very nasty.

It all began with a children's book - not satirical drawings. A positive Danish book written about the prophet that the author felt should be illustrated, it being written for children. No illustrator would touch it. After a long search, one agreed, but only if guaranteed anonimity. A Danish newspaper picked the story up and turned it into a protest.

It isn't about whether the drawings are positive or negative. For the muslims, making the image is an outrage.... one they apparently are willing to kill for. Boicotts against Danish and Norwegian products are spreading and all citizens are threatened. There is a deadline for violence in just a few hours. All public and probably most private offices are closed and many people have evacuated. It has become a very dangerous situation.

I think this is much more than just a religious problem. It is a symbol case for the clash of mentalities between western democracy and the old style mix of religious-political system of government. The Danes and Norwegians just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Most frightening is that it is turning into a large scale conflict. Media in England, France, Germany...and probably more, have reprinted the drawings because they feel they MUST take a stand. Mix in the Fatah loss to Hamas, the War on Terrorism, the imbalance of political support in the Middle East... and this case is a perfect symbol of all that is 'bad' with the West - and vice versa.

They burn our flags. We draw their prophet.

I find their rage completely un-understandible. But that is also a part of the big picture. We are so different we have trouble accepting that this just might be a step too far in protecting our right to free speach. I certainly don't understand it. But if it so enrages people of faith, then maybe it was unnecessary?

What makes it so important to make pictures of mohammad? I could care less. I had no trouble avoiding muslamic blasphemy. The people who do care, feel utterly spit on. The rest use it for political phishing - and these guys are found on both sides of the fence.

So maybe this was the wrong symbol to make the center of a cultural conflict? I am sure going to feel that when somebody completely innocent gets killed because of a newspaper drawing in a small newspaper none of us reads.

Edit...

Probably the worst thing about it is that it is almost impossible to stop. Our governments cannot stop or apologize for the editorial choices of newspapers. That is obvious to us.
But that is not how it works in the Middle East. There the media is under government control.
What for us is obvious, is equally obvious to the outraged muslims - but with the opposite effect. Our refusal to punish the 'offence' is not a private matter in their understanding. They see it as public, official support by our governments.

The havoc this mix of politics and relligion is playin should also give the people in the western democracies reason to think. The separation of church and state is under huge pressure in the west too - with presidents spouting religion in every speech. We hope the Middle East will become more like us... but in fact, we are becoming more like them.

[ 02-02-2006, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: lagspiller ]

Sea Frog
02-02-2006, 03:15 PM
Lagspiller, good rant, it's a borderline topic that depends on whether you consider any given religion as a private matter that only its worshippers are to be concerned with, or a universal philosophical proposition for anyone to take up or reject.
In the first case, the credo is a private club that outsiders should leave alone and shouldn't make judgments upon, in the second it's a debate everyone who feels interested can involve himself into.
Now their famous book IIRC insists that miscreants can be converted forcibly, that's not what you would call a private club at all!

And to put things back into context, the Danish government have taken very harsh steps against Muslim immigration recently, making it very difficult.

[ 02-02-2006, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: Sea Frog ]

Andrew Craig-Bennett
02-02-2006, 03:25 PM
Lets hear it for the good guys:


Jordanian independent tabloid al-Shihan reprinted three of the cartoons on Thursday, saying people should know what they were protesting about, AFP news agency reports.

"Muslims of the world be reasonable," wrote editor Jihad Momani.

"What brings more prejudice against Islam, these caricatures or pictures of a hostage-taker slashing the throat of his victim in front of the cameras or a suicide bomber who blows himself up during a wedding ceremony in Amman?"

The article in al-Shihan also included a list of Danish products.
from the BBC website, here. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4673908.stm)

Actually, no UK paper has reprinted the cartoons.

Steve Paskey
02-06-2006, 10:10 PM
I finally tracked down the cartoons, and I'm surprised. For the most part, they're really pretty tame.

For anyone who hasn't seen them all, here's a link:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/Mo_Cartoons.jpg

[ 02-06-2006, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: Steve Paskey ]

Ian McColgin
02-07-2006, 07:59 AM
Just a side note on democracy and fundamentalism.

Part of why we are in such trouble in Iraq has to do with the Bush Administration's claims to love democracy coupled with their utter disrespect of liberty, as witnessed by their lying and spying.

A theocracy can be, often is, of democratic structure. Whether the theocracy of my Pilgrim ancestors, where a disobedient child could be executed, or the theocracies emerging in the Middle East, one style of theocracy is of essentially congregational polity where a majority leadership is whipped along by the religious leaders who are usually semi-elected or non-elected charismatics. These leaders may call for whatever, but the actual civil administration can be in democratic, albeit majority dictatorship, hands.

For us of the western democracies, individual liberty is a value that must often trump majority rule, even, perhaps especially, at the expense of majority sensitivities and majority interests.

Osborne Russel
02-07-2006, 08:00 PM
An excellent point, Ian but -- have you considered that the Bush cabal really does know what they're talking about, and mean exactly what they say? The President as an elected king. If he's good, he gets one re-election, and gets to pick his successor. Completely democratic. This stuff about privacy and other individual rights, that's for a republic, not a democracy.

Meerkat
02-07-2006, 08:20 PM
I fear I may now be living in one, but how do you have a democratic dictatorship?

Osborne Russel
02-07-2006, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by Meerkat:
I fear I may now be living in one, but how do you have a democratic dictatorship?Easy, just dismiss and disparage the idea that the powers of the state are limited by the rights of individuals, like President Bush did in his recent address. Ultimately the mob, howling for vengeance and security, will do away with the rights of individuals (likely doing away with many individuals in the process), and voila.

Check out the days of Pericles and Athenian democracy. The founders of our republic knew of these antecedents. Bush and his lick spittle fan club don't, and don't care. That would be reality-based. Careful what you say on the phone.