Block Island Marina Expansion

[mariner2k]

Congratulations Residents and Friends of BI!

http://www.projo.com/news/content/projo_20060301_champ1.12fca731.html

keep up the good work!

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

For those who don't want to have to register and give their information I C&P for you. Interesting article. Thanks mariner2k

Block Island marina loses bid to expand

Champlin's Marina, which wants to expand into Great Salt Pond, is expected to appeal the decision.

09:32 AM EST on Wednesday, March 1, 2006

BY PETER B. LORD
Journal Environment Writer

NARRAGANSETT -- The Coastal Resources Management Council last night rejected a proposal to expand Champlin's Marina on Block Island, a decision almost certain to be appealed.

The vote came after more than four hours of sometimes emotional testimony and arguments.

The council voted 5 to 5 on a subcommittee proposal to allow about two-thirds of the marina's expansion plans.

For the next half-hour, committee members argued over other motions, but none were seconded, so the application was rejected.

Council member L. Neill Gray said the expansion plans don't leave enough room for a navigation channel. Michael Sullivan, director of the state Department of Environmental Management, said the plans don't make an efficient use of space or account for the ecological impact on the pond.

Council member Gerald Zarrella gave an impassioned speech, calling on the council to compromise. He said Block Island has a history of saying no to projects that then get appealed to courts, which invariably rule against the town.

Turning to Champlin's lawyer, Robert D. Goldberg, Zarrella asked, if we give you less than 100 feet, would you go to court?

"In a minute," Goldberg said.

While it sounded like a simple decision about whether to expand or not, the Champlin's proposal has grown into the most controversial case facing CRMC in more than a decade.

It is a clash between a businessman's desire to use four acres of public trust waters in the face of opposition from the town and many of its residents who feel the pond is already overwhelmed by boats in the summer.

More than 100 people jammed the Town Council chambers throughout the hearing. Two town patrolmen and a state trooper stood by. And actor Christopher Walken, the island's most recognized resident, stood in back with arms folded.

CRMC Chairman Michael Tikoian opened the meeting by reading a statement saying he had not prejudged the case and that no one outside the room had tried to influence his vote. The statement apparently was in response to a lawsuit filed by Champlin's lawyer on Monday against Governor Carcieri and his aides, accusing them of improperly trying to swing CRMC's vote against the project.

Goldberg used a new argument to try to persuade Tikoian to recuse himself.

He introduced information showing that a corporation connected to a Goldberg law associate, Thomas DiPrete, recently signed an agreement with Tikoian's accounting service for tax work. Goldberg said that was a direct conflict of interest. But Tikoian said he learned just yesterday afternoon of the recent agreement, no work was done or money exchanged, and he immediately canceled the contract.

Actor Christopher Walken, a Block Island resident. attends last night's meeting of the Coastal Resources Management Council where the board considered the marina expansion plans.

Goldberg also argued that Tikoian's comments last fall that he favored a lesser expansion showed he had prejudged the case. But Tikoian, based on the advice of Assistant Attorney General Michael Rubin, insisted he had not and refused to recuse himself.

Council member David Abedon also rejected Goldberg's call for him to recuse himself.

Champlin's asked for permission to build 4,000 more feet of piers that would extend an additional 240 feet into the pond. A CRMC subcommittee voted 3 to 1 last fall in favor of a compromise expansion that would allow the marina to go out 170 feet. The one dissenter was subcommittee chairman Paul Lemont, who favored expansion of just 100 feet.

Goldberg said great weight should be given to the majority of the subcommittee. He said the objectors put on the best public-relations case they could, but didn't provide any credible evidence.

"Undisputed from every side of the room is a huge need and demand for marina space," Goldberg said. "What we heard is people on the island don't want more people there. It's as simple as that."

"Your job is not to protect the privileged," added Goldberg. "It is not to listen to the politicians. It is to rule on the lawfully admitted evidence that the subcommittee has provided to you."

Lawyers for opponents of the expansion argued against the subcommittee recommendation.

"You are the guardians of Great Salt Pond," said Daniel Prentiss, representing the Committee for Great Salt Pond.

He said the subcommittee ignored evidence that the expansion could be confined to areas close to shore if dredging were done.

Joseph Priestly, representing the Block Island Land Trust and Block Island Conservancy, said he thought CRMC was poorly served by the subcommittee majority.

Champlin's is the largest commercial entity on the pond, he said, but it did not address the cumulative consequences of its proposed expansion on the pond's fish, small boaters and navigation channels. He said the expansion would create a "navigational nightmare in the pond."

"The fundamental question for this council is whether this expansion is consistent with the state's public trust doctrine," said Joseph D'Ovidio of the Conservation Law Foundation. Champlin's, he said, is not consistent.

He said Champlin's operates in reverse of typical marinas. Instead of providing public access to public trust waters, it provides access to Block Island for boaters.

The crowd started to clap in response to D'Ovidio's closing argument, in which he said the subcommittee's proposed $50,000 fee for use of the public trust waters wouldn't even begin to repay the state.

Town Attorney Donald Packer said that because of a legislative grant, the town owns the pond. If CRMC gives four acres to Champlin's, that's confiscation without compensation, he said. The proposed $50,000 fee isn't even close to enough, he said.

[uncas]

Great news....

[Norman Bernstein]

Outstanding news.

I've been sailing to Block Island for over 20 years now, and Champlains' Marina has already become a blight in the harbor... it would be inconcievable for it to expand.

Sadly, even though this action is a help, Great Salt Pond isn't what it used to be... substantially more crowded, year after year. It's still my favorite of the three principle islands south of the Cape, though.

[uncas]

Norman...ain't that the truth...in the 70's Race week was crowded but not that crowded...now ya can't even get in there...
Luckily, I may have a mooring there next summer... :D
Otherwise...anchoring in 50-60' water again... :(

[Norman Bernstein]

Ahh, too bad, uncas, that you don't have a 'connection' like we do!

[uncas]

ah...but I think I do...a choice of four moorings.... :D

[mariner2k]

Hopefully any appeals will flop also!...and why a tie vote? That's a little close. In any event a huge step in a positive direction. With the glut of new boat sales, the pop problem continues to grow, without Champlins help. I think more measures should be taken to preserve the island. If let go there usually is no turning back. Just look at the upper bay.

[uncas]

mariner...can't be worse than the Ches...latest figures...40$ is dead...I mean dead....

[mariner2k]

that 's just sad. I have seen specials on pollution and the Ches and the underwater photography was that of devestaion. BTW I'd give my left n*t for a mooring on BI. I spend so much time anchored there the galv is gone on my chain.

[ 03-04-2006, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: mariner2k ]

[uncas]

mariner...the worst is sailing through the dead zones....even the uninformed sees just brown water...little movement and no life...
It's amazing that we have organizations such as the Ches Bay Foundation...that receives millions every year and is about as effective as.....well...you get the picture...

[mariner2k]

Uncas, Where is your local gov't on this?

[uncas]

a couple of things...I live...well...I consider on the bay...but not in the watershed...now I find that amusing....
Local...well, the local gov. doesn't do that much

State...well, there have been some initiatives...the flush tax was probably the biggest...put in last year...Matt J would know the figures right off the top...I can't remember...something like a 64 million overhaul of sewage treament plants...but this too has problems...The state can not come up with a figure for TMDLs...which is specified by the feds..
TMDLs...are Total Max. Daily Loads of say Nitrogen..into the system...to be designated by the state and forces treatment plants to comply to...
Also...although Matt has some interesting thoughts...The Ches is 64,000 sq. miles...and include five states...That means...all of those states have to be on the same wavelength...and they are not...

I mean...we have Cooperstown NY in the Ches watershed...And if you travel down RTE 81 through VA...you will see a sign stating you are leaving the Ches watershed about 50 miles from Bristol TN.

[ 03-04-2006, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: uncas ]

[mariner2k]

WOW! At least we mostly just have to deal with providence ( but that would be ignoring may other factors). Every time it rains, tadaaa, the upper bay gets a brownout. Of Course it does have to travel through the lower bay to escape to Rhode Island sound. In your case, It's tough to get everyone on the same page. I don't get it. Is clean water too much to ask?

[mariner2k]

[ 03-04-2006, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: mariner2k ]

[Bruce Hooke]

Mariner2k,

While the overflow of sewage into the rivers and thus Narragansett Bay is a major problem (that is being dealt with here in Providence*) a key issue that we are running into both here and in the Chesapeake is the runoff of nutrient ladden water from farms, lawns, golf courses and the like. It is possible, but expensive, to cut down on the levels of various nutrients that make it through the sewage treatment process (and the allowed levels in the discharges is an ongoing issue that is regularly fought over), it is much harder to convince all the home owners and businesses that abut streams, lakes and wetlands to leave a vegetated buffer between their buildings and landscaping, and the water, and to seriously scale back on how much fertilizer they apply. For example, there are currently various debates going on in Providence about how much of a buffer should be required between buildings and the Woonasquatucket River. The city and the business owners would like to be able to build right up to the edge of the river because this maximizes the businesses ability to make use of their property and maximizes the tax value of the property. However, running parking lots and lawns right up to the edge of the river also adds a lot of contaminted runoff to the river so those who are concerned about water quality in the River and the Bay are fighting for a larger buffer.

I think the National Geographic article got it about right when it said in the article about the Chesapeake something to the effect of, to make much more progress will require a substantial reordering of priorities on the part of individual citizens.

*As an aside, the reason the sewage overflow problem is being dealt with in Providence is because the EPA forced the action under the Clean Water Act.

[mariner2k]

Believe me Bruce. I won't forget the fishkill in Greenwich bay a few years ago.
kevin

[Bruce Hooke]

Good. The more people like you who won't forget it, the more likely it is that things will change.

I should reveal my connection with this issue. I am on the board of the Woonasquatucket River Watershed Council (http://www.woonasquatucket.org/index.htm), which is working to protect and clean up the Woonasquatucket, which, of course, also helps the Bay.

[uncas]

Bruce...great...I commend any organization...and especially those who are involved...for any work they manage to do to protect out various watersheds..
It is not an easy job...been there...done that...retired from doing it...

[Bruce Hooke]

Thank you. And thank you for all the work you have done in this realm. It is most certainly a slow and at times frustrating process. On the other hand, it does have some small rewards at times. I was out taking a few photographs of the river a couple of days ago and I'm pretty sure I saw a mink!

[Gary E]

"Undisputed from every side of the room is a huge need and demand for marina space," Goldberg said. "What we heard is people on the island don't want more people there. It's as simple as that."

"Your job is not to protect the privileged," added Goldberg. "It is not to listen to the politicians. It is to rule on the lawfully admitted evidence that the subcommittee has provided to you."
Sounds to me as those who are aginst it are the same ones who favor "free trade and business" as long as it's not in their back yard...
If that is the outcome and expansion is stopped, you will all have them to thank for ever decreasing facilities for your boat and ever increasing prices for what facilities are available.

They seem to be the rich that say, "I got mine, you dont, screw you"

[uncas]

I know that Fishers are moving back into the coastal regions of Ct....and it is a mink...well family..
As with some species...I think there are more out there...than some of us assume...The entire weasel family is fairly secretive...
Kinda like seeing a bobcat in Lenox MA...shocked the heck out of me...as it was broad daylight....a main road...well a secondary road...
But on reflection...there is some prime territory for them close by...

[uncas]

Gary E...what does a 57 yr. old sailbaot with nothing fancy on it need? Nada...I rather anchor anyway...I don't need power..I don't need to be plugged in like a piglet...I don't need fuel...

A shower would be nice...and perhaps a decent place to eat should I decide not to grill a steak with a few ears of fresh corn...but all that other stuff...no don't need it...

[Gary E]

Maybe that is all YOU need...what about others?
How many 57 yr old boats of any kind ? and whut does it matter how old or new?

[mariner2k]

I have seen fishers in Charlestown RI, as well as otters about 1000 feet away from my girlfriends house. It's in the woods.
Gary,I'm sure what you say is partially true. But many who visit the Island feel strongly for other reasons. there are much more stronger reasons that that to defeat any expansion. If there reasons help to keep BI cleaner and quieter, I'll take it.
BTW, shouldn't we be working on our boats today?

[uncas]

Can't answer that...Guess they will have to go elsewhere and leave me more room...
Heck...some of the disadvantages of having a power boat...air conditioners...hot and cold running water.showers...lots of electric lights...microwaves, electric stoves, refrigs. ..TVs...etc...
Hey....it ain't just powerboats...but...If ya want that stuff...you are gonna have to be prepared to deal with the inconveniences...and modern tech.and all of the toys.....can be an inconvenience...

[ 03-04-2006, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: uncas ]

[Gary E]

Originally posted by uncas:
Can't answer that...Guess they will have to go elsewhere and leave me more room...
Heck...some of the disadvantages of having a power boat...air conditioners...hot and cold running water.showers...lots of electric lights...microwaves, electric stoves, refrigs. ..TVs...etc...
Hey....it ain't just powerboats...but...If ya want that stuff...you are gonna have to be prepared to deal with the inconveniences...and modern tech.and all of the toys.....can be an inconvenience...You forgot a few advantages...
..Go where ever whenever not dependant on wind
..A generator so you make your own electricity

[ 03-04-2006, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: Gary E ]

[uncas]

Yes...guess so...lewts see...I have two foreward lights...three aft...
But I am an exception...most of my lighting is oil lamps...I have one 12volt light above the navigation area...which is actually on top of the ice box...two on the cabin bulkheads for cleaning up after dinner etc.
Uncas is fairly primitive...I go on my brother's boat...and everything relies on electricity...I mean everything...His electric breaker box looks like the cockpit of a 747...

[Gary E]

Yeah.. and some big sportfish boats not only have ice makers they also have water makers.
Next will be the booze makin "still" lol

[mariner2k]

docks have a place, but not more in new harbor. What if you want to go to BI and don't wish to pay for one?
What if you don't need the ammenities? (yes we shower and cook) What if the water is already crapped up enough? What if the walk to old harbor looks like a line at the supermarket? I've been anchoring for years and have never heard anything but praise from my passengers about anchoring. Works for me anyway.

[ 03-04-2006, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: mariner2k ]

[Gary E]

Nobody ias stopping you from doing what you want...but you want to stop others from doing it their way...

The "screw you, I got mine" seems to be the theme on BI.

[uncas]

No Gary...Did not say that...All I said is...that if anyone wants a lot of fancy stuff...well, they are gonna have to deal with the inconveniences...If there are places that do not have the conveniences they want...well...go somewhere else.
Now if you have ever been in Annapolis by boat...you learn real quick that there are no grocery stores within a min of 4 miles...Okay...I go to Annapolis....I have an Ice Box...with ice..( which means I have trouble keep produce cold ).I know about the groc store situation...I do not go there if I need provisions...or if I feel that I might...simple...I go somewhere else with a groc store handy...
Having a boat like Uncas is my choice...Having a boat like my brother's is my brother's choice...we accept the positives and the negatives and work around them if we must.

[mariner2k]

Not at all. You have very valid points. Everyone has different needs. Just not at the expense of New Harbor or the public land (for private gain).

[Bruce Hooke]

This problem arises over and over again these days when the reasonable carrying capacity of a special place is reached or exceeded some way often has to be found to limit the number of people who can go to the place in order to keep the place from being overrun and destroyed. I know of no easy solution to this problem.

[uncas]

Look at the gov. limiting climbers on Mt. Hood...or is McKinley...Why, because too many people are climbing to the peak and causing a good deal of damage..plus the safety concern...
Look at our national parks...At what point is the capacity for tourists reached?
There are places that people want to go because...simply enough...there are few people...Stands to reason that if one region becomes flooded with visitors, changes are going to have to be made...so that those who want a place that is more pristine, they can go there...and not have to worry about tripping over someone else's tent lines...

[ 03-04-2006, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: uncas ]

[Gary E]

Sure we all deal with what we have. The article was written by
"BY PETER B. LORD
Journal Environment Writer"

What opinion would anyone expect from a Enviroment Writer? wonder if he belongs to greenpeace or sierra club.

The vote was split 5 to 5... so, who's gona win?... or is the deal that no matter who wins, all boaters will loose..

[uncas]

Gary...those are the most contradictory comments...taken out of context I have seen for a while..

Oh and by the way...I do not like the Sierra Club...

[mariner2k]

I'm sure 20 years ago there were not a few people that thought like we do now. In the future will some say "I wonder what is was like back in the early 2000's" Good work with the Woonasquatucket.
RI is too small and fragile to survive pollution.

[uncas]

On an offshoot...Saw a special on Mt. Everest...where every year, more climbers are attempting to reach the top..( and compared to those who go to our national parks are few in number )
It was interesting to note...that the amount of trash and matrerial left behind these expeditions was creating a real problem for the country...Mounds of the stuff...thrown away...disgarded...as useless...
And I am sure that those visiting the area are not going there to look at a city dump but that is what they are finding...

[ 03-04-2006, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: uncas ]

[Bruce Hooke]

Originally posted by Gary E:
Sure we all deal with what we have. The article was written by
"BY PETER B. LORD
Journal Environment Writer"

What opinion would anyone expect from a Enviroment Writer? wonder if he belongs to greenpeace or sierra club.Peter Lord is simply the journalist at the Providence Journal who covers issues related to the environment. The Providence Journal is the major newspaper in Rhode Island and it is very mainstream. I have not detected any signficant biases in Lord's reporting, unless you call simply writing about environmental issues an indication of bias.

Edited to add, where do you see bias in Lord's coverage of this issue?

[ 03-04-2006, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: Bruce Hooke ]

[Meerkat]

Originally posted by Gary E:
Maybe that is all YOU need...what about others?
How many 57 yr old boats of any kind ? and whut does it matter how old or new?If people want all the comforts of home, maybe they should just stay home... ;)

Jamie; Get a sunshower!

[uncas]

got one...now where is the sun?
And there is nothing that can replace a REAL shower...none of this 2-5 gal. stuff...I mean..not even a naval shower...One you can actually get the shampoo out of your hair type showers..

[ 03-04-2006, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: uncas ]

[Meerkat]

Maybe you need a better sunshower... AFAIK, a 5 gal sunshower will temper something like 20 gal of cold water to make a very luxurious shower.

Of course, maybe it's different for those of the bear persuasion...errr....pelt! ;)

[uncas]

yup..lots more hair....lots more shampoo and a definate need for lots more water... ;)

[Meerkat]

Shave! :D

[uncas]

Not on your life!!!!!!!! :D and shaving means more than five gal. of hot water.... ;)

[ 03-04-2006, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: uncas ]

[Meerkat]

No, no, no! Not on the boat! You get the sheep shears at home, start at the toes and work your way up. Lots of hot water available (have a plumber's helper standing by!)... :D

[ 03-04-2006, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[uncas]

Just one plumber's helper?

[Meerkat]

Depends on if it's a girl or boy helper? :D

[R.I.Singer30]

Yes a victory,although it is vowed to be appealed.So it's possibly only a delay.

The area is a beautiful natural harbour(the inlet is dredged),half of it is off limits to anchoring.If the marina were allowed it would displace the local moorings to the point that there would be very little room for the average joe.It's happening every where I fear.The haves do not want to share unless we pay there dues. :(

[Figment]

Wow, as pleased as I am that this effort was defeated, I'm honestly a bit surprised. I had partially resigned myself to thinking that the money would do the talking.

My sincere congratulations and gratitude to all those involved.