hartley ts14

[ozjett]

Hi Guys I have just being adopted by a old hartley ts14 thats in need of a lot of TLC almost total ground up restore I have being told that these are quite rare has anybody worked on one

[Bob Smalser]

Redid an incomplete, 1969 one last year as a wedding gift. Wonderful, stubby little Hobbit's pocket cruiser.

Do a search both here and at Design on Hartley 14 and 16 and you'll find a good bit.

If shorter than 6'1", two folks can actually sleep in that cabin. Helps some to like each other, tho. ;)

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075025/59367496.jpg

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075025/59377952.jpg

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4639129/58622485.jpg

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075025/37546443.jpg

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075025/37657497.jpg

[ 12-22-2004, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Captain Pre-Capsize]

Ozjet:

Don't be dismayed. Bob sets a very high standard for the rest of us. There is always one in every crowd... ;)

Whether sharpening a plane or restoring a Hartley the most emotionally healthy attitude should be, "OK, Bob is a ten and if I can pull off a six then it will still look mighty fine to all the Unwashed out there in fiberglass." :D

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

.
No, not rare. Very good little Kiwi-designed boats. Anyone wanting a roomy, stable little camping cruiser could do a hell of a lot worse than a TS14.

And by the way, when you grow out of it (if you ever do,) don't worry -- Hartleys just kept going up. (Although I stand to be corrected, I think the largest is 27 feet.

By the way and for what it's worth, Richard Hartley was the first bloke to coin the abbreviation "TS" for trailer-sailer.)

Mike

[Bob Smalser]

I'm as big a klutz as anybody.....I've just been a klutz longer and more actively than most.

The pics merely point out that a little bit of trim and paint detail can work miracles.

[RonW]

Hey Bob.- There is a fine line between being a Klutz and a master craftsman.

A master craftsman becomes a pro at covering up their mistakes, a klutz never picks up the fine art of covering up their mistakes.

As far as the little bit of trim and paint detail goes, I always heard that -caulk and paint will make us what we ain't.

Think you are working on your master's degree..

[Captain Pre-Capsize]

Originally posted by RonW:
Hey Bob.- There is a fine line between being a Klutz and a master craftsman. Think you are working on your master's degree..Nope, more like another Doctorate. ;)

Keep up the good work Bob, we may not say it much but I know that I speak for many when I say that your posts are invaluable. Why our host hasn't already approached you about an occasional column in WB I don't know.

[Wild Wassa]

Originally posted by ozjett:
"... has anybody worked on one."

Welcome to the Forum Mate.

If you do search (deep in the Forum archive), you will find that there are a couple of Aussies working on Hartleys, they may have finished the restorations by now.

Warren.

[ 12-29-2004, 02:04 AM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[ozjett]

Thanks for the imput guys looks Like I have some work to do thankfully below the waterline is all solid I shall post some before pics as soon as I can

And Bob did you have to place the bar quite that High

[JimJ]

Ozjett

Where in Oz are you? There are active Hartley Clubs or Assoociations in the 3 eastern states.

visit
http://www.users.bigpond.com/bpwales/

It has links to other clubs or Assoociations. If you are near Brisbane, you are welcome to join the Hartley Association in our upcoming events.

Jim

[ozjett]

Thanks Jim I do Live in brisbane And I would like to take you up on that offer I shall get in contact as soon as the silly season is over

[ozjett]

Here are a few photo that I promised hopefuly the web site below will become a jounal for this project as you can see a quick wash and a bit of paint shoundn,t take Long :D Pics (http://www.ozjett.com/hartley/)

[Geary]

Hi, I'm new to this forum. I just decided to build a Hartley TS-14 as a first boat. I chose this design mainly because I can tow it with my small car, I can fit it in my garage, and it looks like a great boat.

Also, Bob's Peanut was an inspiration. I can only wish that my boat will be anything nearly as nice as that. Bob, I'd love to see some more pics of the TS-14 you built, if you have them. I found some pics of it in various threads in this forum. You said you put bilge pumps, lights and a horn on it? Nice. How did you get such an awesome finish? Did you fiberglass the hull?

I'll keep you posted on my progress, if anyone is interested. I got the green light from the wife. I'm currently waiting for the plans from Hartley and setting up shop.

-RYAN

[Larks]

Hi Ryan, welcome to the forum mate and all the best with the Harley, a great little boat. Start a new thread when you get your plans and keep us all up to speed on progress. cheers

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

.
What Larks said.

Mike

[Bob Smalser]

... I just decided to build a Hartley TS-14 as a first boat....Bob, I'd love to see some more pics of the TS-14...



http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075025/330812733.jpg

Hartley 14 pics. There is also a raft of info on these in the Design section under Hartley and Pocket Cruisers.

Wiring Harnesses for Small Boats and Trailers (http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=2093)

A Simple 3-Board Door (http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=4164)

http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/3075025

A Simple Pair of Seven-foot Oars (http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=3422&highlight=Simple+Pair+Seven-foot+Oars)

I chose it mainly because on the trailer it fits nicely in a standard garage, and outfitted it for safe overnight travel in the ferry lanes of the Inside Passage. For a tubby Popeye Boat it points surprisingly high, drives easily under power in a seaway (it now wears a larger 5hp Honda), and is as seaworthy as its larger cousins. But you can see from the mast and boom there's a good bit of sail there for the size of the hull. I also fitted an old spinnaker to it for more fun...you can see its outboard tracks on the top deck.

The finish is CPES over wooded plywood followed by a hotcoated heavy epoxy primer (and epoxy fairing compound where needed ) followed by white Interlux oil-based primer, followed by Kelly Moore Tredcoat porch and deck enamel. Selected areas were masked off and nonskid applied and the remaining finish was rubbed out after curing using red Scotchbrite lubed with paste wax.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075025/89897812.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075025/114523064.jpg

What makes the looks on this design isn't the paint, it's bending that cockpit coaming into a fair curve. Laminate 1/8" plywiood against temporary cleats carefully to get both coamings identical and eyesweet.

Painting the trailer to match is a nice touch, although this one was from 1969 and was completely rebuilt with new wheels, rubber and wiring.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075025/59627845.jpg

And lights or not, don't ignore the little safety details like marking the balance point on the mast and installing a step to reboard if you are alone and get knocked off the boat. One reason I have so many pics is I also added an owner's manual any kid can read through and safely rig the boat.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075025/59030331.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075025/330748819.jpg

[Chip-skiff]

Bought one from a retired chap who'd just restored it— it was on a mooring and half-full of rain when he bought it.

Sailed on Lyttelton Harbour, South Island NZ, which is a grand spot for this sort of boat, given a bit of caution as to the weather.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3538/3450867180_91996bf1f5.jpg?v=0

I didn't do much work on her— upgraded hardware, patched sails, painted some scrapes, and reworked the bungs, which were obstructed and didn't drain well. There was a leak around the centreboard case that would have been troublesome on a long trip, but we daysailed, mostly.

The boat handled pleasantly, was stable, and faster than she looked. We sailed with no motor, but I imagine she'd go well with a 2-5 hp outboard. I found the wee cabin decent for a night or two (I'm 195 cm tall), and cooking camp-style in the cockpit— nothing like the Inside Passage, which is a feat in a boat this size.

I have nothing but fondness for the Hartley 14. In any event, you'll not go far wrong with this design.

[Geary]

Thanks for the pics and the links. They'll be helpful. Right now I'm excited to get started but I'm slightly drowning in information.

I'll start a new thread about my much more amateur attempt at the Hartley T-14 when I get started in a few months.

[Geary]

Bob, do you have an electronic copy of that owners manual for your TS14 that you would be willing to share with me? It would help me since I've never sailed or rigged a sailboat.

I'm still waiting for my plans to arrive from New Zealand. I'm shopping for wood right now, even though I don't have a BOM yet. Did you say that your TS14 was made out of all Doug-Fir? Doug-Fir marine ply and lumber? I want to choose quality wood, but not too pricy. Can anyone suggest a good wood to use available in the Pacific Northwest?

I'm going to browse Crosscut Hardwoods today and also look for some reclaimed wood suppliers.

(Once I get the plans I'll start my own thread).

[Bob Smalser]

Bob, do you have an electronic copy of that owners manual for your TS14 that you would be willing to share with me?

Sure. It's 4 megs. PM me an email I can send an attachment to.

[py]

I've heard hartley are very very slow on delivering plans, and not very helpful when you follow up with them.

great little boat though, enjoy.

[RFNK]

Bob
I'm not familiar at all with the TS 14 but am quite familiar with the TS 16. A chronic problem with the TS 16 is that people swing an outboard from the transom and the transom cracks longitudinally as it is only supported at each end and by the well bottom which meets it in about the middle. I notice that your TS 14 has no well, apart from the small well you've made for the outboard, so you effectively have the deck running right to the top of the transom nearly all the way across. This seems like a much stronger arrangement than the typical TS 16. I notice that the TS 14 shown in the other picture above from NZ has an arrangement more like the typical TS 16, although the unsupported part of the transom is much less than in the TS 16. Did you decide to dispense with the full width well or is that common to many TS 14s? Rick

[Larks]

Rick, I had a wooden brace from the transom to the keelson on my TS16 but am replacing it with this:

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii11/Larks_01/05112008008.jpg


I don't have a seat running along the transom but the timber bracing and the seats along each side seem to have braced the transom very well for the last 42 years, no movement at all and no indication of it happening. I'm only replacing it because there was an indication of the very start of some rot in the bracing and keelson where they were joined.

[RFNK]

Larks, the typical setup, I think, is a well rather than a seat. The bracket you show here would go in under the well but it seems to be above the well that the transom has trouble. They come away at the ends (where the transom is joined to the sides of the boat) and also crack along the line where the well bottom meets the transom. This seems to invariably be a result of putting too heavy or powerful an outboard fixed to just the top half of the transom rather than to a plate or something that runs the full height of the transom. Even with the plate, I think there needs to be something to support the upper half of the transom if it's expected to carry the weight of a motor hanging off it. The setup on Bob's TS14 looks a lot stronger to me. Rick

[Geary]

Hartley is slightly lacking in polite customer service, but they do respond to my emails at least. I suspect they are holding the plans for 30 days until the electronic transfer of money goes through, but they don't say that. They say that they print a batch of plans once a week and send them off. But I don't see how Air Post would take a month.

Thanks for the advice about the transom. I can tell that this forum is going to help me immensely. Although I was already planning to copy Bob's small well, just because I like the extra seating. :D I don't see the utility of a large well. On Bob's boat, there is a folding step on that side of the transom, so I imagine that seat gets well used.

[Larks]

Larks, the typical setup, I think, is a well rather than a seat. The bracket you show here would go in under the well but it seems to be above the well that the transom has trouble. They come away at the ends (where the transom is joined to the sides of the boat) and also crack along the line where the well bottom meets the transom. This seems to invariably be a result of putting too heavy or powerful an outboard fixed to just the top half of the transom rather than to a plate or something that runs the full height of the transom. Even with the plate, I think there needs to be something to support the upper half of the transom if it's expected to carry the weight of a motor hanging off it. The setup on Bob's TS14 looks a lot stronger to me. Rick

Yep, mine doesn't have the well arrangement, the outboard hangs off the top of the transome and as such I need a long leg outboard (or a drop down bracket) to get enough bight. But there is a decent sized reinforcing pad to land the outboard on the transome, which probably makes the difference. The bracket is dead smack in the centre of the transome and lands just aft of the centreboard case. Unfortunately I don't have a picture with the old set up an I haven't fitted this yet. I'd never tow her with the outboard mounted as that would certainly put too much stress on everything.