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Roger Cumming
04-17-2000, 02:23 AM
All this talk of auxilliary power options for a NY30 got me thinking about one dying a slow death in the yard where my own boat just spent the winter. I know this isn't the place to buy or sell boats, but it kills me to see this old thoroughbred disintegrate. Some major work was done some years ago - new keel or a portion of keel was replaced. She was in a plastic building but this is also disintegrating, there being no plastic left this Spring. I do not know who owns her. There is probably a large yard bill associated with her.

Is there an angel out there prepared to step up to the plate? Job NO. 1 is to get the roof back on the building. The yard where she resides is fully capable of restoring the boat although this kind of restoration is not this yard's main business. I hesitate to even inquire because I don't want to get my hopes up. But it is heartbreaking to see this great old sloop slowly becoming firewood.

scottek
04-17-2000, 08:01 AM
Roger,

Could you post/email (whatever is appropriate for the forum?) the name and number of the boat yard? This boat has potential for the types of boats I am currently looking for. Although, I would be tempted to truck the boat to my friends boat yard in upstate NY to do the work there (can't beat the yard & storage costs)

-YF Scott

Todd Schliemann
05-10-2000, 12:13 AM
Roger, I spoke with the yard manager briefly about that boat. If it is the one out back surrounded by what's left of a shed frame, the general consenus is she's Nevins? built, last rig, schooner (her rig is lying next to the boat, in considerably better shape than the boat itself). I'm not at all sure the information is correct, except that she has magnificent lines and was clearly a handsome and well appointed yacht in her youth. Dosen't quite look like a NY30 to me but then she is a shadow at this point. I had very little time to look her over, I will go back next week because there is something about her.

From what I saw, very fine lines and overhangs for an original schooner rig, maybe 48', clearly a significant "yacht" of vintage. She's owned by someone in Texas that was having her restored by a local boatbuilder. The yard is, of course anxious to get her somewhere else, but although I didn't ask about her bill, if they really wanted her out, they would have her gone the next morning ready to warm the hearth by evening. I imagine she has value and is definitely for "sale."

She has been sitting uncovered for several years. No decks and no garboards so the rain pours right through. Several years ago she was refastened, many new planks, some new sawn frames, deadwood and stem repair, all new deckbeams. This new work looked first rate, very well done with care for her original construction. As a note, an intact portion of her original teak 2x3 layed deck sits nearby with major custom bronze hardware still attached.

The down side? She is only a hull at this point, (but I would bet much of the hardware and significant "originals" are stored somewhere or retrievable). No deck, no interior (bits and pieces strewn about), rudder and fittings no where to be seen, overall she is dying a stately death on the hard, if she reclines this way for much longer.

Clearly she was a magnificent boat. From what I could tell with my brief encounter she would need some considerable financial backing to bring her back to the life she was accustom to.

I will pursue her origins, at least for my own curiosity.

scottek
05-10-2000, 11:08 AM
I had spoken to the Yard manager, Mike, soon after Roger posted this topic. I was informed that many people have tried to get the owner to sell but he is not interested.

-YF Scott

wandiwise
05-11-2000, 09:31 PM
Isn't it enough to make one cry? Question: Is the owner unwilling to sell because he's holding out for a guaranteed restoration-buyer, or should he, like a lot of politicians, be taken out and hung up by his . . .

www

scottek
05-12-2000, 12:13 PM
The impression I got from Mike (the Yard Manager) was that some very reputable boat restorers were interested and that the owner would not sell (keeping it for himself).

-YF Scott

Ed Harrow
05-12-2000, 12:46 PM
We had a great dog that we picked up at the animal shelter. He was everything one could want in a dog and more. He ended up at the shelter because someone "stole" him from the party that was abusing him. (When we picked him up the scar around his neck, from a coathanger wound up tight, was still raw.)

Maybe this is a job for midnight boat supply?

John Gearing
05-12-2000, 03:31 PM
This is a sad case, but I think Todd is on the right track. Let's do the research and find out as much as possible about this boat. Find out who was the designer, which yard built her, who her original owner was, etc. If she has an engine and registration, one could probably trace her back through DMV or whichever agency issues registration numbers. Scott, do boats have titles? Would a title search make any sense? My point to all of this is that at this point the most important thing is to determine if the design drawings are still in existence. If they are, and they are available, then what the owner does or doesn't do with the boat is not so important (except in terms of the boat itself being an historical artifact) to someone who would like to undertake to build new to this design. If, on the other hand, the drawings either don't exist or can't be located, we should focus our efforts on taking off her lines, with the owner's permission. That way the plans can be re-created and even if this physical manifestation turns to dust, the design will be preserved. And along the way it would probably be a good idea to see if the owner can be cajoled into allowing molds to be taken of some or all of the custom hardware. Maybe I am completely out to lunch on this, but this seems like a viable option to me.

As to why the owner is holding on to the boat, ya got me! The owner may simply not be able to "let her go". One tack might be to take some ****ing photos and give them to the yard along with the postage to send them to the owner. Perhaps if he saw how bad off she was he'd realize that the right thing to do is admit defeat and find someone to save her. Just a thought....

Ian McColgin
05-12-2000, 03:39 PM
The ASPCA can move to take away a dog or horse that's badly neglected. Maybe we need an American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Vessels . . .

Then, just as the APPCA may take a horse out of a bad place and let him just live out in a nice pasture, the ASPCV could take these boats out of a yard and at least let them die with some lingering dignity, like the Wiscasset schooners, in a tidal creek somewhere.

wandiwise
05-13-2000, 11:06 AM
Am I missing something here? If this is a NY30 she was designed by old Nat Herreshoff, if memory serves. If I'm wrong, someone say so.

www

Todd Schliemann
05-13-2000, 11:47 PM
Yes the New York 30 was a Nat Herreshoff design, built by Herreshoff Mfg. 1905. 43'6" x 8'9". Think 18 or so were built as one design racers. AMORITA is one of the best still strutting her stuff.

Forgive me all, I didn't get the chance to go out to see her again this weekend. She may very well be a NY30, and then maybe not. I have no memory of NY30's underbody lines to compare with our specimen, only photos of a few under sail.

If she is a NY30, it may very well be why she isn't for sale. However, when I asked about her, Mike's and the Dockmaster's eyes widen and they both said, "wanna buy her?" Tells you how they feel about the whole thing.

Will try to throw up some more authoritative information after I do better homework. Will talk to Steve Corkery, he generally keeps his keen eye on most of the wood in this area. It shouldn't be that hard to find out.

Mobjack46
05-14-2000, 06:11 AM
Question??
Way does the yard not ask the owner to have the moved or regularly increase the storage in an effort to "make things happen"? I would think moving it would push the point for the out of town owner.
Mark

Mobjack46
05-14-2000, 06:18 AM
I brought my Herreshoff Mobjack out of a yard that had got a court order to sell the boat to pay the bills. About three months after a bloke walks up to the boat and tells me that he had been trying to buy it for 3 years. And his first offer was $30k. And the two of them had been back and forth with no ageement and in the end I brought her for $10k and the owner would have got $3k max. So it goes to show that there is more than one way to skin a cat/jetski.
Mark

Todd Schliemann
05-25-2000, 07:49 PM
Our NY30 is not, but the need is the same.
Nevins built schooner, 1917, designed by Henry J. Gielow (of Trumpy fame). Original rig, gaff schooner. Present rig, staysail schooner. 66' on deck, 72' with bow sprit, 13'9" beam, 10' draught. Name, SAONA (may be wrong spelling). Name when she was brought in for restoration in 1994, NERIS, other names in between.

Saona (?) was the owner's wife's name. There was, apparently a photo documentary of her construction at Nevin's yard that was published in "Rudder," ca. 1914-17. There are extent photos available of Madame Saona standing in the hull while the boat was being framed. Apparently very impressive photos, as I have heard admiration of this particular photo from three sources now.

She is planked with white pine below the waterline and cedar above. She has a new Cummings 150 hp engine installed and still wrapped against the elements, unused. See other above. Original hardware is stored and available, including an interior "spiral staircase." A yacht "of vintage," clearly.

Owned by three Texas doctors, yard bill is paid regularly. She was sold to them after a sinking in the Chesapeake. General opinion is that she is available for restoration, nothing less.

I'll see if I can get some photos. All this confirms my impression of a magnificent yacht waiting patiently, slowly dying. No buy, swap, sell here, just information on a very dignified elder lady.

Todd Schliemann
12-29-2001, 12:25 AM
Thought I would bring this back to the top because in the recent WoodenBoat #164, in the "Save a Classic" section ... well, there she is! Roger, did you have something to do with this well placed advertisement for her rebirth?

The remenants of the shed have been shed and she sits, as before, waiting for someone's firm hand and bulging wallet to get Michael back to work on her. As an aside the work that was done to her in 1997 was first rate stuff. Michael's quote in the article hints at the kind of patience and care that was given to her. (I wouldn't want to guess if that restoration estimate is at all accurate, but hey, with numbers like those, no need to ask.) The small rigging drawing in the article shows an impressive yacht, much like what you imagine she could wear when one sees her bare hull today.

Magnificent yacht, beautiful lines, substantial scantlings from the Nevins yard in their earlier days, and as Maynard Bray says,"... the chainsaw awaits." God, what a horrible fate for this boat.

Take a look.

wolfietuk
12-29-2001, 07:37 AM
Is this possibly time to start a foundation for the saving of these magnificant vessels. I know many states have individule maritime organizations, is it time for a National one? A group that would buy some of these old vessels to restore them for resale to a good owner or keep them sailing as examples of what a ship could be. I know a lot of cities and states are building new vessels, but who is preserving the old ones. There is a national register for old houses, is there one for ships. It is worth thinking about.

Rick

holzbt
12-29-2001, 09:25 AM
Todd-
Look behind the shed. There is a Herreshoff under cover right next to a William Hand designed 40' power boat. The schooner is closer to the docks.

Adam C
12-29-2001, 12:46 PM
It is simple to get the owner's name through the coast guard, as most likely she is a documented vessel. Order an abstract of title using either the vessel's document number (usually inscribed permanently on a structural member) or the name of the vessel.

Costs about $12 and anyone can do it.

Todd Schliemann
12-29-2001, 11:01 PM
holtzbt, Yea, I've been wondering about those two behind the shed. Never bothered to ask Mike about them because they seem to be, well, more "intact" than the schooner. Wassup with them? By the way, are you connected with Brewers?

holzbt
12-30-2001, 08:49 AM
Hi Todd,
I have a few friends who work there. The Hand (Blue Moon) is owned by some other friends and is being worked on. It is worth a look if you get a chance. The owners are David and Megan. Her mother sometimes works there and built a 28' Murray Peterson schooner herself. David is an exceptional woodworker and has a shop in town by the old ice house. Mike Kortchmar is the person to talk to about the schooner. It has been an on again, off again project for years.

Roger

Nora Lee
12-30-2001, 10:51 AM
Where is this yard? I am curious too...I plan to head north come Feb or March. Love to poke around yards while I am traveling!

Never know what I might find for my own boat while looking.
I have put some classic stuff aboard Sea Fever while poking about!

Would love to see a 'Regal Old Lady' and pay her homage!

Happy New Year All!

Regards,
Nora Lee

Roger Cumming
12-30-2001, 11:23 AM
The story of this boat, which I had gotten confused with a NY30 that was in the same yard some years ago, in similar condition,is told in the Jan/Feb issue of Woodenboat, in the last page "Save a Classic" department. It says that Michael Kortchmar, an excellent wooden boatbuilder in Greenport, represents the owners. His telephone is 631-477-2466. Michael replaced decking, beams, cockpit framing and trim in our RARUS this spring, all done to a very high standard. So the means to reclaim Neris exists right in Greenport. When you think that a new Porsche can cost $125k, and it's only a car, it wouldn't take all that much to have a schooner, by the yard that also built Brilliant.

Scott Rosen
12-30-2001, 11:45 AM
What's the deal with the owners? They're paying the yard bills, not selling, but letting the boat deteriorate. Yet why would the yard be so anxious to sell her if the owners are paying the bills? Adam's right about tracing the documented history of ownership. I think someone needs to call the owners and find out the real story.

whb
12-30-2001, 08:03 PM
Had a similiar thing here with a heritage house. The owners wouldn't sell because they still had the dream in their hearts. Problem was they didn't have the cash to do the restoration. Transients moved in and eventually burnt the place down.

Howard

Todd Schliemann
12-30-2001, 09:49 PM
Roger (Holzbt)- Megan's mother must be Aiden (sp). She rigs my boat each spring and her little Petersen schooner winters in the water next to mine up that creek. Aiden's is the prettiest little boat, and man she did a first rate job. Think she lives across the creek from where we winter our boats. Nicest person you will ever meet.

Nora- Brewers is in Greenport NY, out between the forks of eastern Long Island. They handle a gazillion glass boats mostly, but there seems to enough classic wood about. At that time of year it will be real quiet and most of the boats will be inside or under cover. You might hear me under my cover tinkering away doin' some "winter cruising" though.

Scott-I spoke with the yard and with Michael Kortchmar back when this thread started and spent a long time talking with him about the boat. The owners are accessible. At the time I thought that the owners were certainly knowledgable to have Michael do the kind of work that was started, and in the appropriate order, from the keel up. The "Save a Classic" article now names him as the owners representative "in these matters." The boat was owned at the time I spoke with Michael by a few "doctors." It now smells a bit like a syndicate in need of help, but with the right intentions, given that WoodenBoat has chosen to take up their valuable publishing real estate with a heads up.

And I suspect that three Porches wouldn't look half as sweet as that boat afloat and in her glory again. Might go a tad slower though.


[This message has been edited by Todd Schliemann (edited 12-30-2001).]