Repair Cracked Ribs? [Archive] - The WoodenBoat Forum

Phoenix

10-21-2003, 12:34 PM

HI guys
I need some assistance in the restoration of my 1970's 14' Simpkin clinker Speed Boat.

Is it Simpkin or Simkin? (the ID plate has Simpkin on one side and Simkin on the other???)

I have stripped the hull including the engine bearers and I need to repair a few of her ribs which are cracked, I was thinking of using 10 mm x 30mm strips of Marine ply and laminating these onto the existing ribs.

The problem is that the old ribs have been soaked in old engine oil and 1 has 2 breaks where the copper nails attach the planks.

Should I cut out the damaged section of the old ribs, bend and laminate in a new piece then attach the planks? Or try to reinforce them? The “OLD OIL” is my main concern how well will the epoxy hold????

Also what timber should I use for the Gunwales/rubbing strips?

Should I re-caulk with Silkaflex/3M 5200 and paint/varnish or sheath in f@#%glass?
(yuk)

Thanks in advance
Colin :confused:

Donn

10-21-2003, 12:50 PM

Welcome to the forum, Colin. What are the original ribs? You'll want to reproduce the original construction, I think. If they are steamed oak, then replace the broken rigs with steamed oak...etc..

Same with caulking...how was it built?

Can you post a picture of her?

Use the search thingy to search for fiberglass sheathing...you'll find some blistering ;) commentary.

PS...that's one mighty contented looking critter sitting in your lap. :D

TimothyB

10-21-2003, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Phoenix:
HI guys
I need some assistance in the restoration of my 1970's 14' Simpkin clinker Speed Boat.
<snip>
I have stripped the hull including the engine bearers and I need to repair a few of her ribs which are cracked, I was thinking of using 10 mm x 30mm strips of Marine ply and laminating these onto the existing ribs.
Plywood COULD work to do this, but I would advise against it. Ply has been engineered for different conditions than small struts, like ribs, produce. You would be much betteroff just using a good piece of yellow pine or white oak for a cheap solution..mahagony for a pricier one.

The problem is that the old ribs have been soaked in old engine oil and 1 has 2 breaks where the copper nails attach the planks.

Should I cut out the damaged section of the old ribs, bend and laminate in a new piece then attach the planks? Or try to reinforce them? The “OLD OIL” is my main concern how well will the epoxy hold????
Epoxy will not stick to oil soaked wood well, if at all, so you're out of luck there I am afraid. If you can't, or don't want to, replace the entire rib you should just mechanically sister the whole timber, bent in place. There are numerous books that deal with this.. Wooden Boat Renovation (http://www.woodenboatstore.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=300-298&variation=&aitem=1&mitem=1) is a great one. It has a lot of good advice about how to affordably get your boat back on the water.

Also what timber should I use for the Gunwales/rubbing strips?
Well, Lignum Vitae of course!!! ;)

Seriously though, any really good hardwood will do. Greenheart if you can get it. Ipe. Anything used for decking or salt water pilings generally will make good rubbing strips. White Oak is fine too. Don't use treated wood of any kind though.

Should I re-caulk with Silkaflex/3M 5200 and paint/varnish or sheath in f@#%glass?
(yuk)
Well, as I said you REALLY should get the above mentioned book. It has lots of good advice on this stuff and you will be able to consider your options as you read it. You could recaulk in 5200 and sheath in FG, but as I recall that is really not a great thing to do to a clinker built boat. At most you would refasten, recaulk perhaps with 5200, and then seal the exterior without FG.

--T

PS:Did I mention to get the book? Just making sure. smile.gif

Jack Heinlen

10-21-2003, 01:15 PM

Hi Colin,

Since you are going to have the gunwale apart(and, perhaps, even if you weren't) I'd replace the frames rather than fooling with sistering, scarfing etc. Unless you just can't locate good lumber. Someone from your neck of the woods will be able to say more about types of wood and availability.

As to 'caulking' you need to say more about the construction. If the boat is planked with solid lumber as opposed to ply it, typically, won't have anything in the seams. Ply planking was often build with some kind of sealer between the planks. Is the boat leaking between the planks? This could be just a matter of tightening up some fastenings, or refastening around the leaky seams.

Say some more, and others will chime in.

Good luck.

Rich VanValkenburg

10-21-2003, 06:14 PM

I sistered and otherwise repaired Sonja's cracked ribs, until finally one day decided it looked bad and replaced all that were damaged. Pulled out the sisters, plugged the holes, and fitted new ribs. If I were you I'd do it so you (or some other guy) won't have to do it over 15 years from now.

Rich

Jack Heinlen

10-21-2003, 06:30 PM

Attempt to clarify. Reframing is made much easier with the gunwale removed. The problem at that point is finding suitable bending stock. You can figure out how to bend the stock in with a little reading on back threads, or a few questions here will walk you through. If you can find the stock, I think it's easier than what you are proposing.

You'd need to build a steam box, three hours work with stuff you probably have about, or which is easily available.

I think it's the right solution for your problems.

On the other side. Ya know, I wouldn't laminate plywood into a boat as you describe for framing, unless the boat's kinda a piece of ****. If you decide to laminate, scarf, etc, some combination, then find decent solid stock.

Concordia..41

10-22-2003, 02:56 AM

Colin, welcome.

Don't know about laminating with ply.

If you use the search feature, you should be able to find several prior discussions on cleaning oil from the bilge.

I also love the pic. Looks like she/he's got some pit bull in her/him. I miss my girl and the problem she had remembering she wasn't a lap dog :rolleyes:

Regards -

Phoenix

10-22-2003, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by Phoenix:
HI guys
I need some assistance in the restoration of my 1970's 14' Simpkin clinker Speed Boat.

Is it Simpkin or Simkin? (the ID plate has Simpkin on one side and Simkin on the other???)

I have stripped the hull including the engine bearers and I need to repair a few of her ribs which are cracked, I was thinking of using 10 mm x 30mm strips of Marine ply and laminating these onto the existing ribs.

The problem is that the old ribs have been soaked in old engine oil and 1 has 2 breaks where the copper nails attach the planks.

Should I cut out the damaged section of the old ribs, bend and laminate in a new piece then attach the planks? Or try to reinforce them? The “OLD OIL” is my main concern how well will the epoxy hold????

Also what timber should I use for the Gunwales/rubbing strips?

Should I re-caulk with Silkaflex/3M 5200 and paint/varnish or sheath in f@#%glass?
(yuk)

Thanks in advance
Colin :confused:

Phoenix

10-22-2003, 09:28 AM

OOP's I just posted the question again? I am new to forums redface.gif

Thanks for the quick reply I am new to the wooden boat forum,
I will take a look at the book recommended, as I have to replace the transom first to restore some rigidity. (Had small area of dry rot, which was badly repaired so I have decided to replace with new timber, as it will be clear coated)

I am leaning towards replacing the ribs with new timber.

How do I post pictures here? :confused:
The planks are "BondWood" which are a type of Ply and there is some old sealer between the overlap that is coming out.

I bought her with the intention of restoring her and I am very happy with her general condition she was originally painted deep red Hull (now dark blue) and clear coated "deck" (also blue) she has a 6 Cyl Holden (GM) Inboard motor with "dog clutch" :D

Apart from the cracked ribs and the transom I am replacing the deck as the edges were sanded down (through the top veneer around the gunwale) and I wanted to varnish it. I will also veneer the dash in Burr Walnut to give the old girl a “bit of a lift” :cool:

I could get used to this great forum tongue.gif

Donn

10-22-2003, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by Phoenix:
How do I post pictures here? :confused:
Per Norm:

Instructions for posting pictures

Photo to be posted must be on the web and in a site that allows cross posting. Many Forum users use www.imagestation.com (http://www.imagestation.com) . This is a free site which seems to have unlimited storage, large picture size, and unlimited albums.

Upload your pictures to ImageStation and create your albums or leave the pics in the in box as you wish.
Pictures in ImageStation are displayed in three sizes: thumbnail, display and original. Left click on the thumbnail brings up the display photo, about 640 bits X 400 or so. A left click on the display photo brings up the photo in the original size you uploaded. Forget this one, except in rare cases which I cannot explain it cannot be cross linked. So....

Left click on the thumbnail to show the display version.

Right click on this picture.

Left click "Properties".

Highlight the Address [URL] and copy it (Ctrl/C).

Now go to The Forum and prepare your new message.
Write what you want as a preamble to your picture, then:

Below the message area is a button, "IMAGE". Left click it.

Paste the URL you copied above into the block displayed.
Note that the block contains http already highlighted. Just paste without doing any thing else so you don't get http twice.

Add what ever additional text you wish to add after the URL of the picture is displayed.

Click on the "Preview Post" button to confirm that what you want us to see will appear, then close the window.

Click the "Add Reply" button and standby for responses.

--------------------
--Norm

Phoenix

10-24-2003, 06:53 AM

HI Again smile.gif
I have decided to replace her cracked ribs (now to learn a new skill “Steam Bending”)
Here are some Pictures.

The first is the inspiration for the Restoration. :cool:

http://www.globalarray.net/user/kcelectronics/MY_Boat/04.jpg

http://www.globalarray.net/user/kcelectronics/MY_Boat/01_1.jpg
This is the Ebay Auction Photo :D

The others are self-explanatory
http://www.globalarray.net/user/kcelectronics/MY_Boat/no_deck.jpg

http://www.globalarray.net/user/kcelectronics/MY_Boat/front.jpg
http://www.globalarray.net/user/kcelectronics/MY_Boat/inside.jpg

Art Read

10-24-2003, 11:12 AM

Cool project! Looks likes it deserves a proper job. These are the folks who can help you do it!

nedL

10-24-2003, 01:39 PM

Colin, Great boat! We have a design very much like it up on the east coast of the U.S., the Jersey Speed Skiff was developed in the early 1920's & is a 16' lapstrake inboard very much like your skiff.
I've got one that was built about 60 years ago (I'e had her for over 25 years now). I'm in the midle of my second rebuilding & this time am re-ribbing her because of cracked/broken ribs. (Steam bending is really much easier than it looks).
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid20/p81148282f81b78edc582cd040c53d709/fdc05efe.jpg
My speed skiff shortly after I got her in 1977.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid20/p0ca964e427649eba796362dc636c55ff/fdc05eab.jpg
About 1983
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid71/p9968d069cba792914b76f449a262baca/fb97136b.jpg
Today, ready for new ribs.
http://www.speedskiffs.com/rucki_js3_group.jpg
http://www.speedskiffs.com/rucki_js2_js13.jpg
http://www.speedskiffs.com/rucki_js5_half.jpg

Jack Heinlen

10-24-2003, 04:25 PM

Hi Colin,

This would be a good time to consider how to fix the problems which led to the cracked frames. Increasing the dimensions of the broken frames might be an answer--say by twenty percent. It's a question at this point. Changeing one thing can throw matters out of balance and cause other problems down the road, but what I think has happened is that so much power in a light hull has caused flexing in the hull and broken the frames. Some flex is intended. This hull is ply, and the construction is intended to be able to move fast in a chop, but there is a limit. It could just be the boat was driven too hard.

It could just be the framing material wasn't good enough, ie straight grained.

If the hull is leaking it is likely because the pounding has started fastenings in the same general area of the broken frames.

Just pondering and asking questions, no answers.

P.S. Interesting boat, BTW. Well worth taking some time and doing it as well as you are able.

[ 10-24-2003, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]

Phoenix

10-25-2003, 07:44 AM

Hi Again From Down Under,
Thank you for all the help and comments,

To answer Jack Heinlen, the ribs cracked because the person (read idiot) who built the trailer put the main rails were placed 6” outboard of the engine bearers so the weight of the engine was not well supported and the bouncing on the trailer did the damage. :mad:
I have since moved the rails under the bearers problem solved. smile.gif

The Builder of this boat was well known in Australia for his racing skiffs and Ski Boats in the 60’s and 70’s I was lucky enough to find this one on Ebay and I bought it sight unseen only the auction picture and some more sent to me by the previous owner. I was pleasantly surprised when I arrived to pick her up, as her general condition was better than I was expecting. ;)

After towing her back I was tempted to drop her straight into the water, but I decided not to get the planks wet and to rebuild her first.

I have been having so much fun removeing various parts and storing them for future refurbishment or replacement. :D

This forum has helped me as I was going to patch the ribs (didn’t even think of replacing them) but after reading this post and others regarding steam bending I think this is the best option and probably the most cost effective way. (time and materials)

As you can see from the pictures the engine bearers and deck are removed so access to the cracked ribs will be reasonably easy?

The pictures of NedL’s Skiff show a remarkable resemblance to the construction of my own boat, so any more help would be welcome.

The inside has now been cleaned 3 times and is starting to look clean; I have installed several braces to push the cracked ribs/planks back into the correct shape prior to replacing the ribs.

I have just finished cutting the new transom and will fit it this week to restore the strength before attacking the ribs.

I have been told that I should sheath in f@#%glass? :eek: (yuk)but I would prefer to re-caulk with Silkaflex/3M 4200 and paint/varnish smile.gif any opinions?

Art Read

10-25-2003, 08:06 AM

"I have been told that I should sheath in f@#%glass? (yuk)but I would prefer to re-caulk with Silkaflex/3M 4200 and paint/varnish any opinions?"

Yup. Go with your instinct. A bit of sikaflex in any weeping seems will be a LOT better for the boat than trying to fiberglass it. I've never tried it, but I'd imagine trying to put a layer of fiberglass down over a lapstrake hull would prove almost impossible to make look like anything but a "bodge job". You'll never get good, tight adheasion in all those laps. And the boat wasn't designed to be glassed in the first place.

Perhaps after you've finished all your repairs to the frames and transom and get the planks swollen up again, (and maybe "tighten up" the fastenings a bit?) you'll find she won't really need the Sikaflex either? Just a thought...

Jack Heinlen

10-25-2003, 02:25 PM

What Art said re glassing. Rather amazing to me that anyone would try. It seems such an obvious mistake to try to get glass to conform to such a surface.

I'm still not clear as to the need for re-gooping. You've not had the boat in the water, am I correct? Reports from the previous owner?

I'd do your woodworking fixes and put the boat in the water, and see what's what before I started messing with the seams. Unless, of course, there are obvious flaws in the plank to plank mates. A better approach would have been to splash the boat and to have spent a day trying to identify areas for examination, but that's spilt milk. I did the same thing once, with a lapstrake sailboat that needed a whole new deck structure. A day in the water would have identified a few butt blocks that needed refastening and saved me from a leaky boat the first season on the water. But I was in a hurry to tear into it. Live and learn. smile.gif Being small and constructed of plywood, your boat will be easier to launch, look, and then go at any fixes needed.

If this boat, as I suspect, is built similarly to Chris Craft's Sea Skiffs, it has a polysulfide or similar in the seams. In theory, such construction should be very dry. And these goops can take a fair amount of abuse before they 'delaminate'. Even with the broken frames, you might be pleasantly suprised at how tight the hull turns out.

Phoenix

10-26-2003, 09:19 AM

Hi from Sunny Australia :cool:
Thank to all for the continuing help, the reason for the last question Glass vs. recalk is for 2 reasons First the 2 planks in the area of the cracked ribs have opened up secondly the previous owner said “she leaks a quite bit” and had applied clear silicon to various joints (Yuk) :mad: and as I have her stripped to repair the ribs I will try to make her less porous? Before recoating her hull. ;)

While I was picking up the marine ply from a local boat builder he suggested that I clean out the plank joints and apply epoxy to bond the planks together, then sheath the whole hull in glass? “This is how they build them now” he said so I didn’t argue! :confused:

But I think that he may have been trying to sell me more product (cloth epoxy etc.) :(

Jack Heinlen

10-26-2003, 09:35 AM

An ongoing process of understanding here.

I would not, NOT, do what the local fellow said re epoxy and glass. As Art said, I think such a job would be a horrible bodge.

I think what you need to do, before you reframe, is get the boat straight, level and well braced. Then you need to spend some hours on your back and in the boat tediously diggin out the sealant(probably a polysulfide like Sikaflex)) from the places where the planks have separated. Then, refasten the planks with new Sikaflex in the joint(are they riveted or clench nailed? Rivets will have a little washer inside the planking at each fastening). A hot knife, just a narrow blade with a propane torch handy, will help removing the old sealer. Good lighting! Then, when the worst of that is done(you'll likely find other leaks later), reframe the boat.

My two cents as a working hypothesis. Keep talking.

Phoenix

10-26-2003, 10:10 AM

Hi Jack,
Thanks for the advice I defiantly am NOT going to glass the hull, I will do as you suggest “clean out the old sealer” and apply new. :(
The planks are fastened with use nailed/roves (rivets)?
http://www.globalarray.net/user/kcelectronics/MY_Boat/nails_roves.jpg

Jack Heinlen

10-26-2003, 10:23 AM

Rivets mean it's a high quality job. Be glad. When you go to refasten you will need a helper, but from the sound of it only for a day or two.

Experiment with long, thin, and narrow blades, heated with a torch. Pallet knives, from a school lab in science, chemistry etc. would be worth seeking out. The are long, flexible and narrow, some with a bend at the end. With hot knives that old 'rubber' will be easier to remove.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

P.S. A few well placed machine screws, with good washers, will help to pull the seams back together once the goop is in place. Do a dry run, before goop to see how they pull. If satisfactory, goop, pull the seam tight, rivet around them, remove them, and replace them with rivets.

P.P.S We can't be talking a seam open more than a skinny sixteenth, hopefully less, or trying to pull them tight with screws won't work. It would mean there is a deformation in the hull needs adressing first.

[ 10-26-2003, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]

Phoenix

10-27-2003, 09:45 AM

Hi it’s me again,
Thanks Jack for the ongoing assistance, tongue.gif
Now that the trailer problem, which caused all the damage, has been rectified I have built a temporary “frame” to push the hull back into shape (only necessary on the starboard side) the gap in the planks has closed up considerably :D I will leave it in place for a couple of weeks while I repair/refurbish other parts, hopefully this will help with the rib replacement. :confused:

I have been under the hull and only the first 2 plank joints will need recalking as the others are still in excellent condition so the job wont be as bad as first thought. smile.gif

Thanks again from “Down Under” :cool:

Jack Heinlen

10-27-2003, 10:15 AM

Don't be tongue.gif ing me when I'm telling you the truth. smile.gif

Good luck Colin. I think my advise pretty sound, and no one has chimed in to contradict.

The only question I have is whether removing the old goop and putting in new is necessary. It could be no refastening is necessary either. You might just harden up on the rivets there and it would stop most of the leaks.

To 'harden up' the rivets would take two people, someone to drive the rivet and someone to use a backing piece, and then to use a backing iron(different matter) while you re-peened the heads.

It's judgement call, and only you are there to make the judgement, and you don't know, so I try to describe in words.

Take your time with the boat. Learn what I'm talking about and look at the boat. Many an amateur has dived in and done unnecessary things.

Best,

Jack

Phoenix

10-27-2003, 11:04 AM

Hi Jack,
Sorry about the tongue.gif I am new to forums and didn’t mean any offence sorry. redface.gif

Jack Heinlen

10-27-2003, 08:51 PM

Colin,

No offense taken. Humor often doesn't translate well in this medium. smile.gif

Keep us posted and keep asking questions. I'm sure others have thoughts and will get involved more. It's a great little project.

I know a little about this construction technique, and am concerned about digging out the old goop. I'm not sure about it. Is it still soft at all? The old Chris' had a goop that never really hardened. Up forward, as a kid, in the cuddy on our twenty six foot Chris Craft Sea Skiff, I could dig my fingernails into the goop that had oozed from the seams.

You might only have to harden up some rivets, if you follow, rather than go through the agony of trying to clean out those seams.

We'll continue talking, and others, hopefully, will chime in. In the mean time, take your time and think on matters.

Best,

Jack

Phoenix

10-28-2003, 08:22 AM

Hi Jack,
I thought that you may be OK but it never hurts to make sure. ;)

I have started re-gluing the deck beams, as most of these are loose (glue has given up the ghost) this has stiffened up the hull considerably and more than half are still to be done! :D

To get to the copper nails I had to remove the gunwales/rubbing strip which had also come unglued only the nails were holding them on :eek:

The old glue was like a crunchie toffee and it sands off the timber with 80-grit paper very easily. smile.gif

I think I have just about reached the end of the dismantling stage, and starting the reassembly.
3 sheets of Marine Ply arrived today for the deck eetc.
so its full steam ahead. (no pun intended)
I will keep you posted. :cool:

Phoenix

04-28-2005, 01:37 AM

It’s been a while since I have logged on to this forum, and a lot has changed? I have decided to replace the broken ribs, I will be using "Spotted Gum" (Australian hardwood) which I have been told is a good timber for steam bending and is also very durable. This change of heart was a long time coming, after much soul searching I decided that the boat really deserved a good job! I will keep you informed of the progress. I have set up a web page with more detail on the restoration My Boat Restoration (http://www.k-c-electronics.com/my_boat/boat.htm) (I haven’t updated it for a while as we have moved house and there are a few jobs to do to keep SWIMBO happy) but I will be back into it soon. I have been picking up all the necessary items (timber for ribs, nails & roves etc) so the time hasn’t been wasted.

Colin

Phoenix

12-13-2005, 08:52 AM

HI All I am back after a long absence, and I need to ask a question! I have bee reading up on bending ribs and there seems to be 2 slightly different methods 1.Steam box and 2.boiling water, what are the pros and cons of each? From the articles I have read it is possible to over steam and “dry out” the timber? So would boiling them be a better idea? The method suggested for boiling was to insert an electric hot water heater element into the bottom of a piece of galvanised rainwater pipe, stood vertically and hang the rib into the boiling water? And advise would be appreciated.

Phoenix

12-13-2005, 09:21 AM

nedL

12-13-2005, 11:33 AM

Glad to hear you are still at it Colin. Sorry to say that I can't comment on the boiling method (though I have heard of it for years). Steaming is very simple & straight forward once you have a way to generate the steam. Steaming will achieve a slightly higher temperature thank boiling. Timing is real straight forward too, one hour for every inch (25mm) of thickness. So, 3/4" (18mm) thick ribs get steamed for 45 minutes.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid181/p892dd9b2dd955d50df98a527b2576049/f2d5ae8c.jpg
It lets you do this.

Phoenix

12-13-2005, 03:57 PM

Hi Again NedL,
We have moved into our New (old 1940's) house and the boat was put on the back burner (no pun intended), but I have been gathering lots of bits and pieces ready for the complete restoration. The reason I asked about the Boiling water was I thought that it might soften the timber better? and may be easier to use? as I can’t run out of steam! But I suppose when I am ready to give it a go I will just jump right in and decide on the spot which method to use, I met a chap who used to build this type of boat and he used the Boiling Water method.

Here are a few pics. of a local Skiff you may be interested in seeing

http://www.k-c-electronics.com/my_boat/club_boats/reb0105.jpg http://www.k-c-electronics.com/my_boat/club_boats/reb0205.jpg http://www.k-c-electronics.com/my_boat/club_boats/reb0305.jpg
http://www.k-c-electronics.com/my_boat/club_boats/reb31.jpg

Colin

Phoenix

12-13-2005, 09:06 PM

Here is a page from a book I have with a Water Boiler shown its from around 1960.

]http://www.k-c-electronics.com/my_boat/club_bo ats/Steam_Bending.doc] (http://www.k-c-electronics.com/my_boat/club_boats/Steam_Bending.doc)

Colin

[ 12-14-2005, 03:52 AM: Message edited by: Phoenix ]

nedL

12-14-2005, 07:04 AM

Colin, Congratulations on the new house! I understand that 'back burner' situation, always nice to get back to work on the boat. I suspect that the boiling method would work just fine for you, especially considering that the bends required in your skiff are pretty gentle with no real tight bends. I've been making some headway on my skiff. I have all the new ribs bent, half of them riveted in place (lots of fun doing all the riveting single handed), and am now replacing some planking in her bottom.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid143/p3316f2d4b4b6c233f35913425081b729/f69ff4ef.jpg

WFK

12-14-2005, 08:29 AM

Phoenix,

A group of us are restoring a 1930's international one design sailboat where every frame will be replaced. Our steam box is rigged up by placing a 1500 watt heating element in a piece of 2" galv. pipe 1' long. The trick here is to get proper flow. Not enough, will burn out the element and too much makes for too cool of water. After burning out a few elements because we wern't sure exactly what the water level was in our pipe,we added a site guage and a needle valve to control water flow coming into the box. It works like a dream. I can come in after work, plug it in, throw the breaker and It produces steam and temps right around 220 in the box in about 15 minutes. Another advantage is that all of this can be right in the shop, out of the weather.

Bill