Leathers for chafing spars

[Pytheas]

I am considering adding leather pads at points on the spars where they chafe, particularly the boom-to-mast junctions. The boat is a Caledonia Yawl with a balanced lug main and boom spirit mizzen. I would like any comments, suggestions, examples, etc. that anyone might have about this. Will copper tacks be adequate to mount a leather pad or do I need to glue (epoxy?) it on?

The search workaround seemed to be working but I could not find anything on this subject.

[bheys]

I used leather for the yard and boom jaws on our boat. It proved to be a bit of a "learning experience". The copper tacks served as miniature splitting wedges and caused a failure of the boom jaw out on the water. For the rebuild I was careful to blunt the tips of the tacks and also found a very small drill bit to bore the holes. Liberal application and several coats of contact cement has proven sufficient. The tacks keep the leather edges from any peeling.

[George.]

If you can get it, carnauba wax will keep leather jaws from creaking for two months at a time.

[Ian McColgin]

Don't use tacks for leathering spars or oars or anything you can get all the way around.

Stitch.

Depending on the size of the spar and the thickness of the leather cut it a bit shy of going right around. Soak the leather to let it streatch while stitching. Get it on really tight and it will dry to tighter.

With leather, it's better to pre-poke for the needle passage. A hole punch is not best. Leather likes slits that are at an angle to the pull, neither normal nor paralell. I have a nice old five tined punch that I modified by grinding what amount to off-set chisel ends to each point. Works great. If you must, flatten the end of a awl and just go one hole at a time.

The double needle herringbone stitch - like lacing shoes is all time best with a full loop at start to give a nice start and have the ends emerge from the first hole, under at the seam and emerging from next hole and so on.

You don't need glue or such under a properly sized leather stitched on unless you're working on a cone. Then glue won't do but you'll need a mechanical means at the wide end to prevent slippage. Best if you can work it in under some fastening that needs to be there anyway.

Tacks are a great way to induce rot. And they never never keep the leather tight enough so after a year it looks saggy.

Tacks for all their evils are sometimes needed as when leathering a cone or the inside face of a boom gallows socket.

G'luck

[Bob Cleek]

Ian's right about stitching wherever possible. HOWEVER, I would avoid copper tacks if you can. They are often too big for the job and can inordinately damage the wood. I've had good luck using short brass escutcheon pins, which are sort of like nails with a head shaped like a half a sphere. They come in various sizes and lengths. A big old square shanked copper tack is overkill, and lacks the neat finished appearance of the escutcheon pin used for what it was designed for.

[Venchka]

Oh good, another Caledonia yawl. First of all, have you sailed the boat enough to know where the leather needs to be on the boom and yard?

Sewing works. I watched Geoff Kerr sewing leather on spars at the WoodenBoat Show, Rockland 2002. He knew what he was doing and the sewn leather looked very nice.

For a non-sewn solution, use epoxy on bare wood spars. John Anderson doesn't sew leather. I fussed at him. He said he was all thumbs. John's method was to apply epoxy to both the leather and the wood. Saran wrap over the leather. Then wrap the area with stretchy electrical tape to hold the leather in place. "Like wrapping a hockey stick," were John's instructions. Clean up the squeeze out and your done. He leathered the oars the same way. Not traditional but it works.

You can see the mizzen mast and oar leathers in this picture.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid83/p435f54559686cedf0266620d09647557/fae12ab7.jpg

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[ 06-11-2005, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[ssor]

This might be one of the best sources you can find for leather:http://www.hideandfur.com/

[Jay Greer]

The leather that is best suited for protecting against chafe is oil tanned "Red Latigo". When the fiber glass industry came into rampant bloom most suppliers stopped carrying it. I convinced the ships store at the Wooden Boat Foundation in Port Townsend WA that it would be worth while to seek it out and stock it. They now can supply oil tanned greased Latigo from small amounts to an entire hide. Check on line. Baseball stitch is best then copper tacks if needed.

[Venchka]

RCMP brown boot and harness leather works as well. :D

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[ 06-11-2005, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[Pytheas]

Thanks for the help. I have stitched leathers on oars before and that went well so I'll do the same to the spars.

[Bob Smalser]

Unlike sailmakers, who like chrome-tanned shoe leather or oil-tanned (latigo) harness leather because it doesn't stretch or shrink, I use only vegetable tanned tooling leather because it does stretch and shrink. You can treat the leather later to provide the same durability as shoe or harness leather.

I always stitch where I can, and prefer a harness stitcher to sewing palm where I can use it because it's faster. I don't recall ever having any seams fail with it.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4518261/57815588.jpg

When sewing conventionally, I often punch my holes using a hole punch because the die-cut round hole is less likely to tear in thin material. Oar buttons are skived (tapered) at the ends and sized for the tapers to overlap each other so as to make a perfect circle as opposed to a humpy circle.

I find mahogany-colored polysulfide seam compound is the best bedding and an excellent "glue" to aid in the longevity of the work.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075025/59030331.jpg

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075025/100167448.jpg

I prefer shop-made spreader boots and chafe guards because they can be made to an exact fit.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075025/100167451.jpg

I soak the leather, stretch it, mold it to fit, and bed it in polysulfide, even tho it's wet, holding it down where necessary with small brass escutcheon pins. The bedding compound and the leather dry nicely together, shrink to a perfect fit and when dry I treat the leather with a boot dope of neatsfoot-beeswax-pine tar. If in a hurry for it all to dry, you can soak the leather in alcohol instead of water for the same effect.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4921404/62648482.jpg

The strongest and most lasting treatment where you can use it is to saturate the tooling leather in melted beeswax. Such items can last 50 years or more in hard use.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4921404/62648465.jpg

[ 06-11-2005, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[LLaver]

Have any of you guys heard of an egde flesh stitch? it is used in some shoe making and gives a very neat finish. Here is a link to a site which has some pictures and an explanation.

http://home.earthlink.net/~lizjones429/shoe-advice.html

Cheers

Lee

[LLaver]

with the edge flesh stitch the thread passes out through the edge of the leather and into the face of the adjoining edge. The thicker the leather the easier this stitch is to do, I normally use a small curved awl to pierce the holes which go in through the skin surface(grain side) of the leather and out through edge. The stitching is then done with a standard two needle stitch.

Lee

[Jay Greer]

Nice leather work. May I be so bold as to mention that, if the escutchen pins you have used for nailing are made of brass, that they will not last as well as copper tacks in a marine invironment. Fresh water sailing is exempt.

[Bob Smalser]

Originally posted by Jay Greer:
Nice leather work. May I be so bold as to mention that, if the escutchen pins you have used for nailing are made of brass, that they will not last as well as copper tacks in a marine invironment. Fresh water sailing is exempt.Yup.

Bedded in polysulfide, which acts as an adhesive besides keeping water out of the holes, it doesn't matter much.

All this only needs to last til the next full paint job, anyway.

[ 06-13-2005, 08:18 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]