Plank Stealers - Scarf or Butt?

[DanO]

Instead of taking one step forward and two back, (like I've been doing most of this project!) I figured I might try poll some experts on whether it would be better for this Buzzards Bay 14 design to try to scarph rather than butt a couple of stealer planks. I'm actually in the process of fitting garboards, and given the geometry of this hull design, I'm going to need at least one, and maybe two stealers under the tuck. The following shots show the boat with all frames in place, floors installed and faired, and that blasted rabbet finally smoothed to the point of acceptance:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid153/p4bbba5fc0419ed08e0b2feba80ac0869/f58cd9b3.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid153/p39e076c05ce8a0c0ae42967a2b2e71cc/f58cd9a3.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid153/p4fb9ed0295f9fa05725bfefface216f4/f58cd97c.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid153/p6bdcf5e5fff95186633d487ba7cbdec6/f58cd986.jpg

I figure this planked-down design, with all of its twists, turns, bevels, etc will require enough backing out, rounding off, smoothing and all that to last me a lifetime. I only hope it won't take that long to do it! So what d'ya think...can a stealer be scarphed, or should I just butt them the old-fashioned way? By the way, I plan to scarph many of the other planks because all of my stock is 16' or under and, in addition, the sweep involved with this boat is fairly severe and I'm also afraid of the dreaded "grain run out."

As always, I appreciate the thoughts.

Dan

[ 01-09-2005, 12:45 AM: Message edited by: DanO ]

[Art Read]

'Fraid I can't offer any helpful advise with your question, (I dodged that particular bullet with my own boat's "canoe" shaped hull/bolted-on deadwood design), but wow... I just gotta say you're doing great work there! I remember only too well fussing over the garboard rabbets! And trying to get out those long curved planks with the planking stock available... Scarfs are a lifesaver!

(That being said, wouldn't a stealer, by nature, be sort of "wedge" shaped? To fill a triangular shaped void in the plank runs? Where would you need a scarf or butt?)

[ 01-09-2005, 01:09 AM: Message edited by: Art Read ]

[DanO]

Art,

You're right that the stealers would be roughly triangular, but where the apex meets the other planks, there would need to be some kind of backing, traditionally in the form of a planking butt and butt block. You really can't make the end of the stealer completely pointed. Instead, you "nib" it into the neighboring planks. I was wondering if scarfing (scarphing?) might make for a fairer curve. I'm just a little worried that the butt in the middle of a very curved area of the hull might not fair very well. I'm sure experts have no problem with this stuff, but I'm far from an expert!

Dan

[Scott Rosen]

I can think of two ways to do the stealers. One is to hang the first stealer starting in the corner of the sternpost rabbet and keel rabbet. The stealer would run in a triangular shape with the nib terminating in the keel rabbet. The next stealer, if you needed it would also start at the sternpost rabbet, would be hung above the first stealer, and then ending on the keel rabbet. This way, there are no butt joints created by the stealers. But you would not have a single garboard strake that would run the entire length of the keel rabbet.

The other way would be to hang the stealer between the garboard and the broad strake, which would require a butt joint. I'm having trouble visualizing how you could use a scarf (or why you would want to). Wouldn't you be better off just gluing the stealer to the adjoining frame before you hang it? Which, as I think of it, isn't a good idea either.

Steward has picture of this in his Boatbuilding Manual.

Good luck.

[ 01-09-2005, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: Scott Rosen ]

[DanO]

Scott,

I'm familiar with that section of the "Boatbuilding Manual" by Stewart. It shows the two methods of stealers that you described. However, after suggesting that there are numerous possible variations, Stewart goes on to wisely state "it is strongly urged that before beginning the job, (of lining off and hanging stealers) a study be made of the planking on a boat similar to the one being built for whatever can be picked up." That's the point I'm at now. I guess if this stuff wasn't so challenging, it might not be that fun!?!

In any case, gluing to a frame won't work for sure. In the absence of good advice to the contrary, I'll probably fashion some type of butt block behind the apex of the stealer. I roughly lined this off today, and I might be able to get away with one stealer.

There's a new book out about Herreshoff sailboats, and after perusing a copy in a local bookstore, I saw that the Herreshoffs built several of their planked-down designs with a garboard that ran the full length of the keel. Chip Flanagan, a very talented builder in Maine, also used that method. He's built a beautiful BB14. I just wish I could see the details of the planking and in particular the stealers. chipboat.com (http://www.chipboat.com)

Dan

[rbgarr]

I believe a number of the Herreshoff Mfg. Co. boats were built with full length planks throughout. The materials they stocked were to die for.

What did you think of the new Herreshoff book, by the way? Is it worth getting?

[Scott Rosen]

I meant 'glue to the adjoining plank', not frame. My mistake. But it still sounds like a bad idea. Have you tried calling Chip Flannigan?

[whb]

DanO

Just a wild thought.

Say your average plank width was 6". Could you scarf a wider plank say 12" on the end of that so that you could shape the end to include the stealer. The scarfed piece would have to be fairly long say 8 feet to avoid having the scarf too close to the end. It would lead to some waste for sure but might do the job.

Howard

[ 01-10-2005, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: whb ]

[DanO]

A few quick responses/thoughts:


What did you think of the new Herreshoff book, by the way? Is it worth getting? The book is a beautiful compilation of photos of Herreshoff boats and contains what seem to be very interesting chapters on the history of the boatbuilding dynasty. After a quick glance, I'd definitely recommend it. I'll probably pick up a copy when I go back to the store.

As to the stealers, I'm reluctant to glue the seams to other neghboring planks for fear that it would become too rigid and likely to crack with stressing and flexing. Gluing a 5"-6" strake edgewise, even if scarfed, to another plank would seem to me to invite problems with this design. I'm just envisioning this boat swelling when it sits in the water for 1/2 to 3/4 of the year, and then sitting on the hard for the winter months. Not to mention sailing this thing like a bat outa' Hell, with its 900 pound keel dancing through the waves. Ah, but I can only dream at this point!

WHB...
Say your average plank width was 6". Could you scarf a wider plank say 12" on the end of that so that you could shape the end to include the stealer. This is what I was thinking about when considering scarfing vs butt blocks. The difficulty I'm now thinking about is Just how I'll be able to spile and fit out a plank like that. I've got some head scratching here!

Lastly, Scott, I have talked with Chip a few times over the last year. He's been very helpful, and I couldn't have come this far without his advice (and the photos on his website also help!) I just didn't want to bother him yet again.

Dan

[ 01-10-2005, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: DanO ]

[rbgarr]

DanO-

Thanks for the report on the Herreshoff book. My birthday's in two weeks and I deserve a treat. ;)

Re your planking question: David Stimson is a forum member and the general manager of Sample's Marine in Boothbay Harbor, Maine. A beautiful version of your boat was built years ago by Norman Hodgdon and is stored at Sample's (AFAIK) in the winter. You might ask him to take a quick look at her (KU'UIPO is her name) to see how the planking is laid out and constructed. Maybe send pictures?

He commented on the following thread, so you could find his e-mail or pm him through it.

http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=003537

[DanO]

rbgarr,

Thanks for the lead. The more information - and inspiration - I can get, the better.

BTW, Happy Birthday!

Dan

[HR]

My boat (which I recently bought from David Stimson) is stored in the building at Sample's. I'm driving down tomorrow to spend a few days working on the boat and would be happy to take some digital photos and e-mail them to you. Let me know exactly what you would like to see and I'll do my best.

Howard

[rbgarr]

Look for a boat with gray topside and deck paint, blue bottom paint and a pale blue interior. Photos of the lower two or three planks (perhaps with measurements?) and of the bilge where those planks attach might help Dan, IMO.

Ask permission to board the boat, if you need to do that.

My two cents.

[DanO]

Howard,

That would be wonderful. I'd really appreciate any digital photos you could come up with. I'll try send you an email through this message board. Isn't technology great? By the way, what kind of boat did you get from Stimson?

RBGarr,

Thanks for helping out with this.

Dan

[ 01-11-2005, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: DanO ]

[HR]

Dan, received your PM and responded.

I bought "Malolo", the boat that David lived aboard in Martha's Vinyard and cruised on to the Bahamas. She's a 40' pilothouse ketch built in 1965 by the Albury's in Man O'War Cay. We're getting her ready for launch in early May, then plan on cruising a bit in Maine and then head home to Nova Scotia.

[rbgarr]

Is this ketch her by any chance?

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid109/ped7f01aa75ed871772ac9777f1675252/f93af325.jpg

[HR]

Similar, but not quite - here she is...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid154/p462878eea771abaf1024edffee1a7398/f5819199.jpg

[DanO]

Wow!! What a beauty. She looks like a serious cruiser for sure. Congratulations on a fine vessel. I'm sure you'll enjoy just looking at her fine lines.

For some reason, I didn't get your PM response. Sometimes it takes awhile. I'll check back tomorrow (kids are hounding me for the computer!)

Good luck on the work project over the next few days.

Dan