1941 Lightning, "Rampage"

[Trog]

A short while ago, while I was sweating over my 1960 Kings Cruiser (see other thread), a marina-mate ambled by and non-chalantly asked if I wanted another wooden boat. Taken aback, I said I'd consider it and a week or so later went to check it out. With a very inexperienced eye, I accepted the offer. After all, you can't beat free! :rolleyes:

What the hell have I done now?! What fine mess have I gotten myself into this time? http://home.pacbell.net/trog/sig.gif Only time will tell. :D

http://home.pacbell.net/trog/starboard-quarter-4.jpg

(lacking a survey) She appears to be in restorable shape. Three sets of sails (one set of cotton! As comfortable as bed linen!). All hardware appears to be there and in decent condition. She's been on the hard, likely for decades (the trailer tires were old cracked white-walls... U.S. Royals!) :eek:

Her insides are in good shape, still protected by old varnish:
http://home.pacbell.net/trog/cockpit.jpg

But her canvas deck is all but weathered away. The planks are pretty oxidized:
http://home.pacbell.net/trog/fore-deck-closeup.jpg

Her bottom looks, eh, okay (*bites lower lip*):
http://home.pacbell.net/trog/stern-keel.jpg

But this crack scares me:
http://home.pacbell.net/trog/stern-cracks.jpg

Yet other parts appear pretty sound:
http://home.pacbell.net/trog/bow-starboard-sanded.jpg

:D http://home.pacbell.net/trog/sig.gif :D

Whatdya think?

[skuthorp]

I dont know what she is but as far as I recall She's near as d***mit to a boat we had in the sea scouts on Albert Park Lake in the 50's Sloop rig, with Genoa, We repaired her as a project with the Rover Scouts. She was old then

[videoguy]

I think you are a lucky guy looks like a nice boat and in not too bad shape I hope you have a lot of fun fixing her up. Not sure what kind of boat she is but she looks like she might be a commet if she's 16 ft or a lighting if she's 19 ft Good luck with her .

[David Tabor (sailordave)]

_Looks_ like a Lightning, and in much better shape then mine was when I got it. Hell, still is! Anyway, look on the centerboard trunk for a carved hull number. Measure the overall length and beam. Do you have the mast? If so, how long. Is there a drumlike tackle for lifting the centerboard? If you have the centerboard is it kinda heavy? Like about 125#? If you can answer these ?'s I can probably tell you what it is, but off the cuff, it looks like a Lightning. Good catch!

[Noah]

I think that you guys got a hint in the subject line of his post..."Topic: 1941 Lightning, "Rampage" "

She looks good and fixable.

Also, I like the look of the King's Cruiser. I got me a Folkboat...
I will try to look up the history of the King's in my book on Folkboats. From what I have heard it is an enlarged tightplanked Carvel Folkboat with a big doghouse.

Noah

[Johannah]

Your wooden lightning finally got me to register for this BB instead of just reading. Lightnings are the essence of sailboat to me, simple, quick, handy and easy to sail. We were part of a group that restored a wooden lightning a few years ago (built in the early '40s). Recanvasing the deck, refastening the planked hull as needed and the most experienced woodworker in the group installing oak sisters for some weakened frames. We had to leave the group at the point when they were considering removing and resetting the centerboard trunk. The recanvasing, refastening and installing sisters went well. The new canvas deck was beautiful. If you would like any details of what we did, please let me know. Best of luck and I'm glad this boat landed with you. We have several small wooden sailboats now which I dearly love, but part of me still hopes to find an old woody in back of a barn somewhere.

[Trog]

I am so very pleased that eyes more experienced than my own can see the same worthiness in her I do. Being so new to wooden boats, and sailing in general, I'm trying to make sure I keep a firm grip on my passions, so as not to let them override my intellect too much. :D

And my apologies for being obscure with her vital details. Yes, she is a 19' Lightning, built in 1940/41 by Skaneatels (sp?) shipyard. Named "Rampage" she is at least a two-time International champion (mid-to-late 1950's, I believe).

sailordave: Bingo!

Having read in a 195x Lightning Association... er, ah, ?handbook?... that it was a requirement to put the "yacht number" on the centerboard trunk, I went looking for it so as to register her with the Department of Motor Vehicles. No go. Methinks she may pre-date the association and may never have been registered with them. The ONLY numbers to be found are an unrelated 5-digit number on the trailer and her sail number, 485 (if memory serves).

Edit: Memory dunt serve. She's #467 :D

Right now I am fighting with DMV to get her registered so that I can move her to her new home. One of the few historical documents I have of her is a 1966 receipt and set of California Department of Harbors registration stickers. The DMV flunkie insisted that they had to keep them and offered to make me a photocopy of them. In a profane moment I took back the receipt/stickers and DMV paperwork and stormed out. Next time, I'm going in with photocopies and no original documents they may wish to keep. :/

--------

What do you ladies and gents think of that top deck?

I'm thinking that a little sanding will remove most of the oxidation from the wood. Then maybe a treatment with CP... CP... ah, what the hell is that stuff ya'll keep talking about (LOL). After that, red lead and Irish felt topped of with some #10 duck.

Sound about right?

-------

And that bottom. I just don't know about that bottom. :/

[ 08-30-2002, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Trog ]

[Trog]

Noah: That would be wonderful and greatly appreciated!

I've been to the San Fran Folkboat website and seem to remember your presence there. I've been considering purchasing that Folkboat book they're advertising, to maybe glean what Altair sorta' is and sorta' ain't. :D

Johannah: I'm delighted that I piqued your interest enough to, ehem... pull you out of the woodwork. (ba-dump-dump pshhhhh) :cool:

I welcome the offer to pick your brain and am quite interested in your experiences. smile.gif

[Ken Hall]

I think your best bet is to just give it to me. Someday you'll thank me. tongue.gif :D

Seriously, keep us posted on your progress. Doesn't look like there are any problems entirely beyond the pale. Lightnings are high up my list....

Best of luck,
Ken

[Johannah]

Trog, we decided to stay away from lead, not wishing to poison ourselves, the kids or the neighbours. Yes we were all old enough to have grown up in lead painted houses and also live in houses built 110 years or more ago. But need to retain the remaining neurons. The deck was sanded, refastened (didn't need much), whatever the correct term is when you sort of calk a deck, primed/painted with oil based paint and then covered with wonderful heavy cotton canvas. After the canvas was cut and stapled in place, it was "doped" with the same guck used by model plane builders. We talked to several yards, including the nice folks in Skaneatelese, and everyone doped the canvas with different guck. The New England yards gobbed on more oil based paint. Choose your poison. But the end result when painted was amazing to behold and good for years of use. The previous owner had stripped the canvas and convinced himself it looked good that way, but no long-term harm was done. Do check the bottom planks for strength of attachment. We were amazed how much they moved when refastened to solid wood. Our boat was built on the Chesapeake with a diagonally planked bottom. From looking at your pictures, your wood looks at least as good as the contemporary boat we worked with. Transoms were usually mahogany and may be more trouble than that crack that worries you. On the lightning I had as a kid, I just used to ram more oakum in. We were taught to remember to put the boat in the water 2 weeks before the race season so the wood had time to swell. Lots of bailing in the meantime and never perfectly dry. Unless you decide to glass her, she won't make a good trailer boat because the seems stay open. Sorry to yack on so.

[ 08-30-2002, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: Johannah ]

[wolfietuk]

When dealing with dept of wildlife (they register boats around here) to register an old wooden boat that a buddy and I bought in eigth grade we had problems. The boat had been registered many years prior. They wanted several hundered in back taxes. The boat cost us 25$ we put about 150 into it and bought a used 25hp Johnson for about 425$. The lady there looked at a couple of disapointed kids who had spent all their money and half of the summer working on the boat and said "We will just call it homebuilt". (it was origionally just that). Isnt it a shame we have to lie to make our government act with some common sense.

Rick

[Trog]

My god, man!!

Home-built!

I could kiss you!

:D

[Dave Carnell]

You didn't mention the mast. I owned LIGHTNING 609 in the early 50s. Trailered it from Wilmington, DE to Castine, ME one summer. After I brought it home, the next time I went sailing on the Chesapeake with daughters, 7 and 3, we had a brush match with a Dutch Celebrity. Were pulling away going to windward when the mast broke and rig went over the side. Well-trained crew were calm. After a pause, older said "What do we do now, Daddy".

Got rig aboard and powered home with the 1.7HP Neptune Mighty Mite outboard. Mast was a box screwed and glued. I figured riding to ME and back shook the glue loose. Made a replacement 6' section, spliced it on, and sailed fine. When I sold it, it went to NJ and was lost in one of the 50s hurricanes that hit the area.

Bought the boat in Mamaroneck for $600 from an ad in Yachting. Can you imagine a boat that cheap in Yachting today. She was built by Skaneatles.

[SBH]

trog, i think "rampage" is in amazing shape for a freebie. and a two-time International champion - wow. here's a little something to inspire you:

http://www.3rdwave.net/wbfpics/light.bmp

sbh

[Trog]

Johannah: Please. By all means. Yack away! :D That's exactly what I need. I've got a ton of knowledge building to do as I plan how to go about making her seaworthy again.

While I cringe at the thought of fiberglassing her, I do hope I can find an alternative as it is my goal to keep her trailerable.

Dave Carnell: The mast, upon visual inspection, appears to be fine. I tried to scrutinize it as best I could, knowing what a critical piece it is. It's lying along a fence at the moment, elevated off the ground. Hopefully I'll be able to avoid an adventure such as yours. :D

SBH: Great pic, thanks! I've been foraging through the materials I've received with her and found a photocopy of a 1953 Lightning Class Association yearbook. She's featured on the cover under sail with her spinnaker filled. Inset is a small photo of (I assume) her skipper, Robert W. Graf of the Buffalo Canoe Club. He sailed her to victory in the International Championship Regatta, besting 35 other entrants over 5 races.

The more I research her, the wider my grin gets. :D

[Wayne Jeffers]

Originally posted by Trog:
. . . While I cringe at the thought of fiberglassing her, I do hope I can find an alternative as it is my goal to keep her trailerable. . . .Trog,

If you're going to dry sail her, you should consider seam wedging for repairing the bottom. The article on "Alternative Repair Procedures" in the current issue of WB gives a pretty good description of the process. If she was built glued-seam, this would be the most authentic means of restoration, anyhow, unless you wanted to re-plank her.

I think seam wedging is a lot simpler and cheaper, and less risky to the boat, as compared with glassing.

BTW, Nice boat! She should be a beauty when restored.

Wayne

[Alan D. Hyde]

http://www.lightningclass.com/images/circuit%2001/dscn0042.jpg

Here's a link to the Lightning Class site:

www.lightningclass.com (http://www.lightningclass.com)

Great boats!

Good luck.

Alan

[Johannah]

They're beautiful in any material, but notice the prevailing hull colour! White, white, white. Long ago, I used to think all white boats were great. The fleets of yore came in all colours, including ill-advised. It would be great to figure out how to keep her tight enough for trailering without having to glass the hull. I wish I had known how to do that 40 years ago, when we took endless kidding waiting to see if the seams wood swell enough. Expect some leakage around the trunk when sailing healed over. Then you won't mind when it leaks a bit.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Actually I have a nice mahogany rudder from a fifties lightning, and a beautiful cedar boom with gooseneck. (613) 969 1936... and actually many colors were used on Lightnings in the sixties and seventies, when the boat was still an olympic class... dark green and red being two fo my favorites..bright sterns on the most of them and varnished cedar floor boards...

[Georgian Bay Boy]

Your "Rampage" is the exact same colour as was my Lightning #8152 ( c. 1963) until this summer. I finally stripped all paint (heat gun & scraper), sanded and stained with Varathane int./ext. Cherry followed by Epifanes traditional gloss varnish. Looks great. (Bottom and deck are gloss white.) My bottom seams had been routed and caulked with Sikaflex about 20 yrs ago. I renewed about half the caulking this summer, but she still leaked a bit when launched and more when sailed hard the first time out last week. Boat has always been dry sailed (trailer stored) and apparently has had years where leaking was very minimal, but I haven't had that luxury in the seven years I've owned her. I have Anderson bailers either side of the case which work very well to keep the boat dry when she's heeling a bit.
I have a Sitka Spruce mast (glued column) to which I added heavy 'glass cloth and epoxy for the bottom 3'. Apparently there was breakage in this area on Lightning wooden masts.

My Lightning is very stable, points quite high and is great fun to sail. Best of luck with the restoration.