(News) about girl/boat

[martin schulz]

This is not about how to impress girls by driving by in a polished RIVA.

This is about how to treat a very unexperienced (in boats!), very cautious, sometimes even scared girlfriend on the boat in a sailing vacation.

I know that similar questions have been dicussed here, let my put forward my problems in my/our last sailing vacation.
After having planned the vacation for some time and after stowing away the food and getting everything ready to leave we sailed out of Flensburg in little more than a breeze blowing with 2-3Bft. My girlfriend even found time to take a swim attached to a rope I usually tow behind when sailing alone. Getting out of the Flensburg Bay the wind was getting stronger, I took down the Topsail and we (so I thought) had a fine ride towards Sonderburg, Denmark. We arrived there around 9PM and everything was fine until my girlfriend told me that she was pretty scared along the ride and even more so, because she dreaded the moment when she had to take the sails down. Don't understand me wrong - she wanted to do that. She wanted to take part in the sailing and she wanted to hoist and take down the sails, whereas I should stay at the helm.

The next day we did some distance through the "Als-sound" by engine and later got out the foresail only. The day after was blowing pretty hard 5-6Bft but it came from NW and so we easily managed to sail across the 30sm dividing the Danish South-Sea (nicknamed because of all the small islands) from the part attached to Europe. Again hoisting the sails and taking them back in was a problem. as I understand her main problem is the sudden "chaos" with flapping sails, the waves and the wind blowing harder which frigthens her and gives her adrenalin-rushes.

We sailed in the Danish South-Sea for 2 weeks, visiting a couple of small islands as well as ports with maritime History (Mårstal on the island Ærø is the port where 90% of all Baltic Trader have been built).

Then we had to face the fact that to get back to Germany in time we either have to sail with the wind blowing 4-5Bft (to go up to 7-8Bft) and 1,5m waves (wich is quite rough in the Baltic, because the waves are very short and steep), or try to take a train/ferry and leave the boat in Mårstal.
We both decided to give it a try and went out at 5AM to have enough time to reach Germany (38sm).
But it was no good. Coming out of the sheltered harbour we were greeted by 6Bft and sailing with everything except the Topsail brought water inside the cockpit as well buried the jib-boom in the waves. I figured that we should put a reef in, but I also knew that with reefed main and foresail alone I could not go as close to the wind and would hardly be able to make more than 3,5kn over ground. I also thought that we should still take the chance and that the promised 4-5Bft and more notherly winds will come if we just sailed on a bit, but one look at the white-scared face of my girlfriend sort of brought me to my senses and we turned around to get back to Mårstal.

Fortunately we made it the next day, barely in time for my girlfriend to catch the plane to the UK she had booked. That time the wind was sometimes even dying away and we used the engine quite often.

Now the question is - what can I do to help her with her fear? How can I plan vacations where we sail around in the Baltic, knowing that the wind can blow pretty hard any time, and still be able to make her to enjoy it?

Ideas?

[ 06-08-2004, 04:13 AM: Message edited by: martin schulz ]

[Ian McColgin]

Yeah. I remember one flog to Edgartown, steep chop with about 35 kt on the nose. At least it was sunny. Grana heels hugely. So there we were bashing away at about 45 degree heal and the prospective sweet one lolling green and groggy on the weather rail. The leeward rail scared her as there was so much boat higher than she. I was standing easy at the helm humming a happy tune. She mustered the energy to glare and snarl, "You're having fun, aren't you?"

I think the sense of control is what first diminishes fear. Greater knowledge and some well placed faith in the brave sea dog come later. To develop that sense of control I go through lots of anticipatory discussion and then exercises.

Like I'd certainly discussed with the person mentioned above that Grana really really heals. And I can completely handle her so all you gotta do is hang out here.

But I get her well wedged on the helm box and got her steering. Grana can be quirky and wierd to steer but going to weather she has a light helm and pretty much takes care of herself, so it's a good chance to let someone have the illusion of command.

That helped. It also helped when I put Grana on the becket (lashed wheel) so she could steer herself and got my friend into a harness and then walking around the boat with me. It's a bit counter-intuitive, but at high heel it's easier to go forward on the lee rail since you can lean in over the coach. Going about on the weather rail imposes an awkward angle over the lifelines of an near horizontal crawl with arms against the coach.

And how to walk about below. Feeling the motion. And in little doses getting her to see that the boat really cannot tip over.

But most importantly, few can learn sailing on a larger boat. Get in a dink or a wee sloop or anything as much as possible so she can really learn more about boating itself. If she's going to like it at all, that will help. If she's not, might as well find out early and then decide whether it's her, or the boat.

My mother, who survived beaching ashore in Truro as the Hurricane of '38 struck and who still skies and rides to hounds at the age of 80 whatever, believes than any adventure that ends with champaign in a hot tub is a good one. That works as well. If you can anchor for the night, manage a nice hot sponge bath for your beloved, and then relax with a suitable beverage and the glow of an oil lamp, the romance of it all will come.

We pretend that we're pelagic but in truth
There's naught like ending a hard beat
Nestled against a cricket sawing shore
With the Milky Way exploding overhead.
The southsouthwest wind lets Venus set
On the starboard bow while soft wavelets
Slap neighboring hulls to talk to me, telling me
The anchor is secure. Tonight we're home;
Home wherever the anchor is down;
Home where our hearts join the mud;
Home in the ooze rich with nutrients;
Home in impaleozoic slime
From which we came, to which we will return:
Home, anchored in the stream of life.

[R.I.Singer30]

Lots of short sails to get comfortable on a boat.She is a brave lass to go for weeks and not abandon ship on ya.Best of Luck.Dan L

[Ariel]

As a female sailor who has dated men not in tune with the sea, I can tell you what I have done. Traded them in on someone willing to learn--fear is false expectations appearing real. The sea can be a scary place--and it will kill you. If she cannot get over her fear you might as well forget about sailing with her. She will make you miserable. It all depends on how much you enjoy sailing too. I am dedicated--boating is a way of life for me--raised on the water I can't imagine not crawling on a boat and heading out into the bay or gulf. I have watched the men come and go in the marinas--their wives hated the boat and that took care of that. Good luck. Hope it works out in both of your favor.

[Noah]

I think that it's all about control. Not that it helps all that much, but at those times when it seems like all hell is braking loose, I get my girlfriend close, and we drive the boat together. I will talk about the heads lifters and gusts that are coming in across the water and how we will sail them. Either heading up or down. Same goes for waves. They come in groups, and we talk about the patterns, and how we are going to react. It helps her get relaxed and feel in control and know what is going to happen instead of being re-active.

The second thing that we do is go sailing with lots of her girlfriends. When in a group they are much more relaxed. The three of them have no problem pulling down the sails or picking up the mooring.

Good luck, and she sounds pretty brave anyway.

Noah

[Bruce Hooke]

One thing that I have found often helps in these sorts of situations is if the skipper comes across as calm and in control. Someone who is less experienced will at least in part look to the more experienced person for cues as to how dangerous the situtation is. One of my more successful applications of this was when I was in a small sailboat with my cousin and her husband. We were pretty nearly drifting and trying to catch every puff of wind when we came out from behind a large vessel and suddenly got hit by a gust that brought a good bit of water right over the coaming before I could react (I should have, but failed to, anticipate and be ready for this situation). I knew that we came within inches of swamping the boat, but my cousin just thought it was a bit of excitement until I told her that evening how close a call it was...

That said, as Ian's story indicates, this technique can also simply serve to make the less experienced person mad at you for not being scared in what is to them a dangerous situation so sometimes you can't win.

Another thought - can you plan your cruises, at least initially, to try to avoid things like long slogs to windward? At least in my area the marine forecast will usually give you a pretty good idea of what to expect up to 48-60 hours into the future. With that knowledge you can try to avoid getting into a situation where you are forced into a long slog to windward to get home. In the case of your story, could you have allowed more possible days for the trip back to Germany so that you would not have felt the need to try it on a rough, windy day? Also, you may want to plan to spend the windiest days in port doing stuff on shore.

In a similar vein, try to find out what she likes about this sort of vacation and make sure to include lots of that. For example, if quiet time on a nice secluded island is what she really loves then make sure to include plenty of that.

Finally, as others have noted, make sure she gets a chance to be in control of the boat and do the fun stuff...

[Scott Rosen]

But most importantly, few can learn sailing on a larger boat. Get in a dink or a wee sloop or anything as much as possible so she can really learn more about boating itself. If she's going to like it at all, that will help. If she's not, might as well find out early and then decide whether it's her, or the boat.I second Ian's comments, in Spades.

Traded them in on someone willing to learn [. . . ]If she cannot get over her fear you might as well forget about sailing with her. She will make you miserable. More excellent advice.

A new and powerful experience on a boat can evoke fear and excitement. If the person responds mostly with fear, then there's little hope. If the person finds it scary AND exciting, then you've got a chance to make a sailor out of him/her. If the person responds with no fear and all excitement, then you'd best find someone else--that's too dangerous. ;)

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I think you will have to trade her in, Martin.

You will soon find one who does like sailing.

Settling for a non-sailing wife/partner/One Who Must Be Obeyed is terrible; you will regret it for the rest of your life/

After all, there are lots of girls, but a boat like yours is quite rare, and hard to come by.

[HeadMistress]

Trade her in??? Nonsense! smile.gif

People--not just women, but men too--are only frightened when they don't know what's happening and feel they have no control over the situation they're in. This young lady had never sailed, was apparently a new girlfriend...yet trusted Martin enough to go out to sea with him--not just join him for an afternoon's lark, but OUT TO SEA...and she's still speaking to him, despite having been in some conditions that would have sent most young ladies onto dry land to stay at the first opportunity.

Trade her in??? No way--this one is a KEEPER! All she needs to become an excellent companion and crew is enough education and experience in conditions that don't scare the bejabbers out of her to let her acquire the skills that will allow her to feel that she does have some control over her life while aboard. When the fear is gone, the joy will begin.

[Gary E]

trade her in ????? What is she a used car?
If you cant teach her how to steer, start the engine and work the throtle and gears, You my friend are not much of a teacher and probably should quit boating yourself. The best time is the teaching, getting her to know how to do it, and you go over there and fool with those sails, anchor line, bilge pump, radar, moring lines, fenders, etc etc. BTW, should you fall off the boat, just who gona come get you?

G

[Donn]

Welcome to the forum, Peg...but Martin is an old fart, and if his new girlfriend is a "young lady" he's got more troubles than her tension onboard. :D

[True Love]

I'm with Peggy, she has potential. Most women wouldn't have hung in through that.

Martin, have you been able to get an idea of how she feels about the experience now that she's had some time to digest it? You threw a lot at her, so perhaps some less harrowing sails are in order so that she can gain some confidence in you, herself and the boat.

[Ex-Oceangoddess]

I know that anything I say will probably get me into trouble, but for my 2 cents worth, she isn't going to be a sailor. Hanging in for two weeks is one thing, but if at the end of that time she's still scared silly its not going to happen.

I learned many years ago that people either love or hate being out on the water. If they love it in fair winds but hate it in foul, they are not going to grow into it.

I too have seen so many men get a boat which their wives/girlfriends tolerate, and they never last. It has to be something you both really want to do and enjoy under any conditions. Fingernails are not a sailing accessory. And there's nothing worse that someone going along with your plans but secretly trying to change them!

[Donn]

And there's nothing worse that someone going along with your plans but secretly trying to change them! Leading cause of divorce.

[Hughman]

Martin, did she get seasick? This form of misery, even mild uneasyness, will put paid to any attempt at a seagoing relationship. There's nothing you can really do about it - it will kill any enthusiasm to tackle the learning curve.

[HeadMistress]

I don't see anything in Martin's description of their sailing adventure to indicate that this woman will never be a sailor. He took a woman who'd never sailed before and who prob'ly envisioned halcyon days and moonlit nights on a wet rollercoaster ride from hell, for pete's sake! And she not only stuck it out, but nothing in Martin's account gives any indication that wouldn't do it again.

Y'all don't even think Martin should find out whether her fears were only the result of not knowing what to expect--what's safe and what isn't. You've never met the woman, but she was afraid the first time, so that's all you need to know to decide that she'll never be a sailor, that she'll only pretend to go along till she can change Martin...and the only thing to do is dump her before it's too late.

FAR more divorces are due to an attitude that considers a woman (or a man) comparable to a used car that can be traded in any time it fails to accelerate satisfactorily on cue than are due to any secret agendae on the part of SOs and spouses to go along with their mates only long enough to change them.

[John B]

Martin Martin Martin. You don't take em out and scare the bejeesus out of them the first time sailing. :D
You cancel the trip and take em sailing in 10 or 15 for the first few times.
( O dear o dear, tsk, tsk, tsk)

Oh Andrew. Nice tongueincheek there. very nicely put.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Hello, Peggie, how nice to hear from you! smile.gif
Martin has only got this one on approval - he has not signed a contract yet - he can still send her back! ;)

Thanks, John - and OceanGoddess for agreeing with me.

If you want to keep this one, Martin, the only possibilities seem to be to make it quite clear that this is a case of "Love me, love my boat!" and to send her on a sailing course on her own, so she acquires confidence. But on the whole I would trade her in

I don't think seasickness is critical - the one I did marry used to be seasick all the time; now she is only seasick sometimes.

Unfortunately our children have inherited her tendency to dispose of her lunch over the side - the 8 year old has been throwing up and getting back to the job in hand since he was 4, but is now OK, thanks to Stugeron. His baby brother is another matter - too small for medication - he managed to go from "suck" to "blow" in a matter of seconds the other day. :eek: :rolleyes:

[ 09-05-2003, 05:20 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Craig-Bennett ]

[martin schulz]

I would like to thank you all for your replies - I really appreciate it, especially because this is the first time I post something more personal here.

If it was just about going sailing and if I was a dedicated sailor going out everytime I get the chance to do some serious heavy-weather sailing, I am sure my girlfriend would really be a problem. First because she couldn't participate in something which would be important for me and second I would have to divide my time between my sailing and her, which would eventually tear me apart.

But fortunately concerning my boat I am not as single-minded as it might have appeared here.

I am a "gaffer" with all my heart. Before I even thought about buying about, before I even moved to Flensburg I was enthused about the Museumharbour, those old working boats, the RumRegatta - the whole idea and livestyle behind that Museumharbour concept. I crewed on a couple of boats until the owner of the 2Mast ketch I was mostly crewing on decided to sell the boat. Suddenly I was there without a boat to sail on and, what made it worse I just quit my job and moved to Flensburg - so I was there, in the center of my dreams and suddenly couldn't take part anymore. So, that's why I bought my boat and entered the Museumharbour Flensburg (unfortunately my boat is still not accepted because though she is along the lines of a working boat, she is honestly more a yacht).

I don't want to bore you with the story of my life, but what I am trying to explain is that there is more to sailing than just sailing and that is even more true if one is sailing an old gaffer and is part of the Museumharbour "scene". My girlfriend is as zealous as I about the "whole thing". She enjoys sailing on the RumRegatta (but prefers if an experienced sailor is also on board), she stand in the cold with me selling fish on the Museumharbour "Apfelfahrt" (apple-trip) market-days, she likes to work with me on the boat (giving me really a bad conscience when she is worn out after helping me and has to show up in her agency again on Monday) and she even had enough patience when we were in the UK spending 5 days out of 7 in harbours and maritime museums and only 2 days at her pregnant sister's place (and couldn't buy the pair of shoes she wanted to because we came out of the Falmouth museum too late ;) )

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid67/p1e834052cfd992a0a19b806a54eb2667/fbccc95e.jpg
...with me in the cockpit. My brother and his girlfriend at the Mast (RumRegatta 2003)

Everything would be perfect if she would just be more relaxed when we go out sailing. I think she'd be more comfortable if she just knew what is going on. I think, and your opinions confirm this, if she knew how the wind works, how boats behave in different situations, what can really happen in stressy situations and what is impossible - she will be more "knowing" and eventually more confident. So reading your "advices" I am thinking on buying her some sailing lessons for christmas.

[ 09-05-2003, 05:21 AM: Message edited by: martin schulz ]

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Martin, that is very well put.

I believe, myself, that trying to teach a girlfriend how to sail, on your own boat, is hopeless. It is even worse than trying to teach a girlfriend how to drive. Your boat is "advanced" with all sorts of complications, like the topsail, runners, etc. It is too hard to sort out what is going on. Better if she sits in a simple safe dingy with an experienced instructor for a few lessons.

Meanwhile, I think that it will be better if she steers whilst you deal with sails, anchor, mooring, etc. You can always yell "pull it towards you" / "away from you" and so on.

[Ian McColgin]

Now we know more. She sounds terrific.

ACB is absolutely right that she should take the helm (at least at the start) while youdo the heavey work. You want to get to real partnership, but let her get some sense of control first.

The total life interest is important as the whole sailing culture is a major factor. Another part is the question of just how fascinated with the intersect of wind and water is she. If she's the sort who can just stare at the bow wave or topsail by the hour, she'll absolutely do. If she likes piloting or notices clouds - any hook at all.

For anchoring and mooring and such, hand signals from the bow and spoken acknowledgement from the stern are the way to go. Very few things provide more amusement to others (I know, having provided such) than Party A roaring from the bow, facing forward as he's wrestling with an anchor chain, while Party B can't hear over the engin noise.

Sooner or later she's going to want to be able to hand and reef as well as steer. If you've looked at your gear with an eye to energy inputs and if you're a good physical coach, you can readily help her see the easy way to let the gear do most of the work.

This might come after she's been out doing some all women sail training. Unfortunatly, most of the 'women's sail' outfits I've seen around here work from fairly contemporary sloops and no one is facing a problem of shere sail weight. If she's not a brawny sort, you may have to look closely at your gear.

Anyhow. G'luck

[Captain_M33]

Martin.....

I think Peggy is exactly correct in saying that your girlfriend sounds like a "keeper". I believe, in this situation it is MOST important to remember "Human Nature", is for self-preservation. I have been on boats since before I could walk, I am a private Pilot, and an avid Rock-Climber.... and I am a single man, so I relate very well to the "scared girlfriend" syndrome. I find myself constantly reassuring my girlfriend that "it's ok if she falls... the rope will protect you..." or "this is a slip... I know it feels strange to fly sideways, and I know it feels like we're falling out of the sky, but that's because we are..... but it's ok". My point here, is that I still FEEL those same concerns, but I have the benefit of YEARS of experience to contrast and compare my current situation against and judge how much danger I am in.... and perhaps more importantly... how much danger I am putting my companions in. As captain of my boat or my plane, it is MY responsibility to call "Go or No GO", and ultimately I always weigh this consideration into the equation; WHAT IF my companion were left with the command... Could they handle the situation if I were injured, ill or killed. It does NOT keep me from doing the things I love... but it keeps the "things" I love, from hurting the "ones" I love. And lastly I will add this.... I have had those moments in my life where a quiet voice of concern or a questioning hand on mine, were my salvation and quite possibly the salvation of my crew or companions. There is an saying in the Flying Community: "There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots... but there are no old, bold pilots". Keep your head about you mate... you seem like a great fellow, just the kind of man that deserves such a fine lass.
Best of luck to you,
Michael Karns
Fayetteville, AR-USA

[MarkC]

Just an idea - but show her the boat when you bring it up to antifoul and clean the bottom. It is most likely a full keel - stand along-side and show her how big and heavy (reasuring) it is.

I always had to douse the sails when the wind got up - she always wanted to take the tiller then!

Lessons is a good idea.

Get her a ride on one of the race boats - with the chaos in a normal race (especially the start) will harden anyones nerves.

Buy her the 'Crusing Women's Hand Book' - written by other women who have gone cruising and it gives their honest oppinions and tips. An English book I think, it has an editor and 8 or so female contributors.

Stop at the yacht club for a few beers where she can talk to other female cruising sailors.

If she is happy to tow behind the boat on a line then she is no scaredy-cat!!

Just a few thoughts

Cheers
Mark

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

This may be encouraging...

Martin, you almost certainly have a copy of Eric Hiscock's "Cruising Under Sail" (the original 1950 edition or a reprint of that edition, not the later pedestrianised version.)

Amongst the boat designs is a 26 foot gaff cutter called Mary Helen, designed by John Tew, and in the chapter on dinghies there is a photo of "Master Donald Tew", aged about 5, sailing a lug rigged flat bottomed pram.

Last year, when he was 60, Donald Tew did a double Atlantic crossing in that boat - with his mother, who was 89!

[martin schulz]

Mark!
I already did have her help me when the boat was out (nobody else offered unpaid help ;) ). Actually it did work. She felt more confident seeing my rather pudgy boat, but it is hard to remember that when you are out.
Here she is kneeling to paint something under the stern.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid51/p7f187e8e5f13649e817004cd3aac12bb/fca54fcd.jpg

Andrew!
Nice story. I will pick out the book instantly to have a look at the chap.
...of course I have a book. I also got that Maurice Griffiths book given to me by an english friend who saw my boat and was compelled to remember the "good old times" when boats like mine were quite common in the UK.

[Hughman]

Martin, Has she read this thread yet?
Lets hear what she has to say.....

(Dear Martin's girlfriend: Please don't take offense in a bunch of old farts discussing you as if you were a side of bacon- We all owe you a beverage of your choice (as long as it's rum) for being such a good sport!)

[Alan D. Hyde]

Martin, unless my eyesight is much worse than I had supposed (or perhaps she's simply a most mercurial creature?) she's under the stem and not the stern.

Sounds like a good companion, wherever she may be.

And this post makes you appear a much more three-dimensional character, and an admirable one, too.

Alan

[Scott Rosen]

Sorry to break this to you, Martin, but she looks a lot like a sawhorse.

[Ian McColgin]

Typography - stem, not stern.

Ohhh it worked s t e m vs s t e r n

[ 09-05-2003, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: Ian McColgin ]

[Hugh Paterson]

Martin, I tried to teach my girlfriend to sail 25 years ago, and finally gave up this year. After 20 years of Wedlock, (and two kids) The women in my life have finally sprung a mutiny on me and the sailing boats going at the end of the season (Boo hoo). Dont bother trying mate, just buy her a power boat of some description. Then again if you want to be ALONE now and then, buy a dog to share the boat with you, at least she does not answer me back :D I only think Im the skipper.
Shug.

[htom]

She sounds like a keeper to me.

I think that teaching sailing, like driving, is best left to others, if it is not absorbed from childhood. It removes a psychological complication.

And I'm not sure that I wouldn't have been frightened in those circumstances. Not sure I'd admit to it, but that's different.

[Gerald]

Martin
Autopilots are the best damn thing ever invented ...... you can sail alone. I'm kind of old and set in my ways but full of advice. You might consider several girlfriends and if you don't find one better keep this one. On the other hand you might consider dumping all those gals and striking up a relationship with Ariel. Be sure to ask to see a picture ..... of her boat.
Ariel ..... I love your attitude!
Gerald Niffenegger

[martin schulz]

Hey guys!

I would like to thank you all for your insights, recommendations, useful and unsuseful advices, jokes and teases.
It did really help me to make up my mind and I think that some sailing lessons, together with even more patience on my side will do the trick.

Perhaps I will need more experience as well. Not that I don't know how to handle a boat, even in stressy situations, but some things are different. I found out that there is a major difference in crewing as bosun or sailing other peoples boats and doing the same job on your own boat.
I don't know what it is. When I work on other peoples boat the responsibility is the same, the dedication is the same, the stress factor is the same - still it's totally different to sailing your own boat. Perhaps one feels more attached to his own boat, perhaps if there are stressy situations you are also thinking/feeling about the wellbeing of your boat - more than you would with other peoples boat.
This can also be a reason for me not being as relaxed as I would wish, especially with my unexperienced girlfriend on board. I guess that little "uneasiness" on my part will somehow effuse.

So for me it is getting more experienced/relaxed with my own boat and for her it is getting some understanding of sailing so she can get a feeling for really dangerous situations and just imaginary panic.

Thanks...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid51/p2cd2f3f7c802887bc1e7ed138b5a8440/fca54e57.jpg

[Dave Hadfield]

Martin, my wife and I have been cruising on our own boat since 1990. She didn't know how to sail when we started, but I did. What I did was give her the helm. She steers, period, except when she's bored and wants to read. She docks the boat, handles when we're anchoring -- the whole thing. She has control of the helm, and the sheets she can reach from there. My role is that of overall captain: I navigate and consider how the forecast will affect what we can do, but other than that I end up jumping around the vessel hauling up sails, putting away lines and fenders, dashing down to make sandwiches, scrubbing down -- all that sort of thing.

Robin is not timid by nature (that's putting it mildly) but steers and docks the boat. It gives her enormous pride. On Saturday we had a daysail with 8 on board; all friends (my Band, actually, plus spouses) and she brought the ketch into her slip like it was a Disney ride on a track. Perfect. Compliments all round.

This pride she has is what keeps her happy to be sailing.

At the beginning I made the decision that it was better to get her involved than worry about the occasional dock-banging. I figured anything she broke, I could fix. As it turns out she is still involved, and there has been very, very little banging of docks.

Some people -- woman, mostly, to be honest -- never get it. They never truly understand what's going on even after years of experience. Others think that this whole "positive righting moment" thing is a male trick and "one day the damn boat's going to roll right upside down, you can bet on it!"

More than just education or experience, sailing requires a certain boldness of outlook and self confidence that has to come from within. If she hasn't got that, well, eventually you will be forced to choose between one and the other.

[ 09-08-2003, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: Dave Hadfield ]

[martin schulz]

--- half a year later ---

[martin schulz]

Ok then, I gave my girlfriend a sailing course for christmas.
At first she didn't know if she should be happy, or rather feel pushed too much, but in the end she decided it to be a good idea.

Last week she had her first lessons. As we expected she is pretty good in the theory lessons (same with her driving license - no faults in the exam, but major problem in the driving tests). What helped her very much is that experience she got while sailing with me. Obviously she has also "inherited" some of that "traditional-boat-arrogance" (you know: those people sailing traditional boats have been born with seamanship :D ), so those chaps in the course trying to show off with their Yachtie-experience don't impress he a bit.

She is pretty good with knots and splicing and already asked me if she could show me what she learned on one of our small Museumharbour fishing boats. smile.gif

(I thought I keep you guys informed - thanks for all the advice!)

[Hwyl]

Good news,
I was afraid you were going to say, that you had moved inland, got a good job with prospects (maybe an accountant) you had sold the boat to buy a nice house and she was asking you to decorate the bathroom with a nautical theme (because you like boats so much). You can go sailing as much as you want as long as you are home in time for dinner and don't come in the house with salty clothes.

Congratulations by the way. Sounds as if she has the kind of mind to make a first class navigator.

[ 06-08-2004, 07:03 AM: Message edited by: Hwyl ]

[paladin]

I wuz lucky with Sweet Thing. She had only been on sailboats a couple of times before, larger boats, but out and out racers. But...a lot of folks in the big plastic bathtubs were standing on the docks looking at Tana Mari when I had returned from a local grocery run...since my Russian is really bad all I could do was smile until she started translating for me and I invited folks to come aboard to eyeball....
After everyone had left I offerred Tea and cookies and we sat and talked a little and I ended up inviting her for a sail, and she politely asked if she could bring a couple of friends (sorta like Chaperones). As it turns out her friend Yana and her husband were experienced yachtpersons having sailed Yana's fathers yacht in Bulgaria. The rest is history....she could handle the boat and stay with the compass in any weather.....and she loved it because my boat didn't "jump around" like the others she had sailed on........As an aside....Yana's father was one of the first to board Hitler's yacht at the end of WWII and took the ships wheel as a souvinir and it resides in Yana's living room today, along with the ships binoculars and sextant and lots of her fathers old logs.....

[Sam F]

Originally posted by paladin:
As an aside....Yana's father was one of the first to board Hitler's yacht at the end of WWII and took the ships wheel as a souvinir and it resides in Yana's living room today A nice tale Paladin!
And if you can't loot Hitler's stuff who can you loot from? ;)
And didn't Hitler's boat end up in Florida? Does anyone remember the details?

[Aramas]

Originally posted by Donn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />And there's nothing worse that someone going along with your plans but secretly trying to change them! Leading cause of divorce.</font>[/QUOTE]Argh! How many years did that cost me? Hmm...5 years with one girl, two with the next and six months with the third (and several sane ones in between) - and not a day since. I guess that's what they call a learning curve smile.gif

Getting back to the original topic, and at the risk of ruffling some PC feathers, the primary historical (and prehistorical) role of a man is that of the protector. I've been in all sorts of wild situations with women, from sailing in 30 knots plus with a girl that couldn't get the hang of which way to push a tiller to turn, through kayaking in 50 knots plus in the roaring forties to wilderness walking in snow country.

You can let women get cold, wet, hungry and frightened as long as they know that you'll put it right soon. It comes down to trust. There are a lot of things a guy can do to let a girl know that her well-being is his primary concern. Just little things like making sure there are sweets and a hot drink handy (chocolate preferred smile.gif ) can go a long way, as can giving advanced warning of what conditions are likely to be. Explaining beforehand that, even though you might seem to be ignoring her and focusing on sailing/paddling/navigation/whatever, you have to 'take care of business'in order to take care of her, and real life doesn't have commercial breaks.

Once a girl has that kind of trust in you then you can take her anywhere. It's unfortunate that most people never test themselves under adverse conditions, let alone test relationships.

Perhaps it takes more honesty than can be expected in order to decide which party fails the test smile.gif

[martin schulz]

Yesterday she had her first sailing lesson in strong winds. When she called me she was still under adrenalin smile.gif

[Wild Dingo]

Excellent thread Martin! :cool: And good to see shes taking lessons and getting "under adrenalin"!!! :eek: :D

My father in law is a bloke who hankered for a yacht for many years finall retired and headed east with his belovered to build a Crowther Cat and sail the northern run of Australia {Cairns - Broome leaveing "Wings" residing 6 months of the year in Darwin while they head back down here} anyway mother in law hates anything more white capped than the bathtub gets seasick at the slightest movement of a water bed and when the wind picks up above a phart heads indoors...

So the strangest thing for us was watching them head east to build and sail father in laws boat of his dreams... they did it... we waited in Carnarvon for the words "Boats for sale we'll be there tomorrow!" but it never came

Mother in law still gets violently sea sick still cant abide the rocking of the boat {This IS a cat!!} and still makes him head for a safe harbor if the wind goes above force 2 but theyve been doing it for over 20 years now... thought he was going to sell Wings a few years back even went and saw the bank about a loan meself but SHE wouldnt let him!

So even if the love of your life doesnt enjoy the experience of sailing they can still enjoy the experience of you and your fulfilling your dream...

Actually I thought it was a bloody good trade off I imagined that this was her way of settling any disputes with him over his worry for her and the mess on his boat... "Look honey you get 6 months sailing in the Kimberlies and Top End with me as your only companion doin the nikkynoo sailin thing...{gawd the vision of that is downright scarey!}... and I get 6 months at home in my own little house with you AMD the kids AND the grandkids... oh and that crazy galah of a son in law! :eek: ;) If I can handle him you can handle me pukin all over the place for 6 months :D

As I said theyve been at it now over 20 years so it can be done and enjoyed :cool:

Martin it sounds like you got a keeper ol son :cool: